Ford in Comp Eliminator?????
 

Is there a competitive Ford in Comp Elim? Seems to me I remember a probe running comp years ago, but i cant remember there combination. A really good friend of mine and I were talking about his a few mins ago about wanting to run Comp with a SBF. Whats the problem with not many of them running? Is it the heads? I can think of a bunch of heads out there that could do the job!!! Is it the R&D thats keeps the Ford out of comp?




Stephen Johnson #2162
Horace Johnson #2167
SS/D 427 Ford Fairlane NHRA-IHRA
Comp Eliminator One Day!!! :D

Re: Ford in Comp Eliminator?????
 

Steve Ambrose and Bob Huetmann..... 6 cyl .

Re: Ford in Comp Eliminator?????
 

I think it is mostly tradition. Most of the people running comp come from a GM background and are ignorant of the recent improvements in Ford motors.

The other factor is the cost of running a comp car, pro stock prices and sportsman payouts.

Finally John Mihovitz (probably spelled wrong) has a very competitive V8 Ford running in comp. It is a turbo modular motor and usually is the number one qualifier when he competes. He has the traditional turbo consistency problem on race day but the car is very fast.

In my opinion a small block pushrod Ford could be a winning comp car. It would be expensive but no more costly than any other V8 combination. After all the small block Ford is winning in lots of sanctionong bodies other than NHRA.

Re: Ford in Comp Eliminator?????
 

Here in Div.6, Mark Wolfe has Hurley Blackneys old turbocharged Thunderbird. Also Vancouver BC Canada racer Howie Stevens had been running running his Ford powered C/Altered Probe for quite a few years. (he was R/U at the Seattle national event some years back). The Probe was origionally the Warren Person Ford car. Howie sold the Probe last year, but allegedly has a new car under construction. Years ago he ran a Boss 302 Maverick in Modified Production.

Re: Ford in Comp Eliminator?????
 

Here's a really nice car that Travis and Trent Gusso have been putting together over the last few years.

http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/a...Picture201.jpg

Re: Ford in Comp Eliminator?????
 

I have been looking into a Comp Ford deal myself, My engine builder says it can be done but it will be real costly... I think alot of guys run GM mostly because of the availability of parts, or to get started you can always get a good used setup and build from thier..

Re: Ford in Comp Eliminator?????
 

yea I knew about that car. That car is beautiful. I cant wait 'till she hits the strip.

Re: Ford in Comp Eliminator?????
 

There are just as many parts available for Fords as there are for Chevys, if you look at the classifieds on the Ford racing websites like Hardcore50.com and others you can find just about any Ford part you want used or new. Also there is no significant difference between the cost of parts between the brands except for the cost of low deck blocks where the Ford race quality blocks are significantly cheaper.

Your engine builder is right, it will be real costly. All Comp engines are expensive. If your builder is going to charge more for a Ford, get a builder who knows Fords.

Re: Ford in Comp Eliminator?????
 

There are alot of parts out there true.. but power per cube, the FORD is still lacking unless your straping a big blower, or a turbo to it..

Re: Ford in Comp Eliminator?????
 

There are tons of all motor options out there and the Fords do just fine.

The NMRA which is Ford only has Factory Stock (mid - low 11s), Pure Street (mid - low 10s), and Hot Street (8.60s).

The NMCA which is open to all makes, has Mean Street (high 9s, low 10s) and Pro Stock (8.50s - 8.60s) and again the Fords do just fine.

The PSCA has a class that I *believe* is called Hot Street and they run in the 8.20s - 8.30s, Fords have owned it lately.

The RAM Racing series in the Northeast is ALL naturally aspirated, and opps the Fords do OK there too.

The only problem with Fords in Comp Eliminator is that they don't have 1/10 of the R&D that has gone in to the Chevys, and I'm talking V8s. If anyone starts to fund the R&D there's no reason at all the Fords can't hang. The biggest problem is approved heads. The Gusso's have taken a great first step with Kuntz & Co, but they've got a step learning curve ahead of them and I don't think they expect to set the world on fire right away. I do expect them to run respectably.

There's a whole big world out there outside of NHRA!

Re: Ford in Comp Eliminator?????
 

Jeff: I have been running the NMRA, Hot Street is a great class, but as for that setup in comp. weight to cubes, the cars would have to weigh in at close to 3500# or more. I have been running Open Comp, and its alot of fun, but its still a bracket race. I decided to strap a big ole NOS setup on mine and try to run with the Drag Radial guys. I think the only way a Ford can still be competitive in either Comp or SS racing is to make it a 4 cyl, the 2300 has alot of R&D done on it cause they still use it in midget racing.

Re: Ford in Comp Eliminator?????
 

I'm not saying that a NMRA Hot Street car would be competitive in Comp. I was just pointing out all of the naturally aspirated options out there and how well the Fords do in them.

With the right amount of R&D there's no reason a V8 Ford couldn't do well in Comp.

Re: Ford in Comp Eliminator?????
 

Some running comp once told me he thought the nascar Ford heads were pretty good. I don't know if that is an accurate statement, but they would be legal in comp.

Re: Ford in Comp Eliminator?????
 

I'll tell you what.... Herb Bollman has been tweeking those small block Ford motors for some time now and he and Eric have turned in some very respectable performances in the last couple of seasons.......

And I believe you are right about the heads, Dave....... I'm certain that Herb has played with them and may have even used them....... I know he had a set or two........

And if anyone is seriously thinking about running a SBF in Comp, I would recommend speaking with Herb
Bollman or Bob Huetmann........ they will put you in the right direction......

Re: Ford in Comp Eliminator?????
 

If you are serious about Ford stuff, then you might give our head guy, Dave Jack, a shot also. He does ALOT of Ford heads and he also did the work on our Buick, which has had the C/D record for over a year.

Re: Ford in Comp Eliminator?????
 

I believe the biggest issue of running a Ford in Comp right now is the heads.

I am currently running a set of Canfields on my setup, and could run ok , not great, but ok. I have tried a set of finely tuned production heads (inline valve) and lost 2 tenths. If I used the NASCAR head (which is a canted valve) It would move the car up a class, along with all the other changes needed to the motor, intake, pistons etc.... just not worth it at this point.

I am working with a local engine builder who specializes in Ford motors to run this car in SS/CS or SS/FM for next year, and we are close.. there again testing with my canfield (not legal) heads I can run .8 under, with the production (legal head) I am only .5 under, but at least we are under.

I may build a complete new car to try a comp setup maybe C/EA with a light roadster, or maybe even go to a big block and run A or B/A..

Re: Ford in Comp Eliminator?????
 

When you say production head, which one are you refering to. The N351 was never a production head but it is legal for SS/CS. As far as legal aluminum heads for other classes I have seen some pretty impressive flow numbers for the Z304 head. The number I saw on one porters website claimed well over 300 cfm for a ported Z304.

Re: Ford in Comp Eliminator?????
 

John: yes there are some heads with decent flow #'s after porting, but they still are not comparable to the GM #'s. I would like to see the head selection opened up to some more of the aftermarket heads, especially in the modified classes.

As for comp racing, there is no such thing as a economical setup to race. If you feel like running a Ford, you just have to figure on spending more, not that they cant be competetive, just costs more.

Re: Ford in Comp Eliminator?????
 

last time i checked, 50 under was a good run? sure, there are guys out there that can go 80 under, but youve gotta start somewhere.

Re: Ford in Comp Eliminator?????
 

I think he was talking about .50 under in SS . In Comp that would be maybe running the index. I have not seen a highly competitive ford V8 in many years.

Greg

Re: Ford in Comp Eliminator?????
 

I belive a car like the old FFW Street Warrior class, would be a good start in comp. My buddy has a mustang that ran 9.20s with a TW head and a 5speed liberty. he was limited to a .500 lift cam. With more open rules this combo would be a player in comp



Stephen Johnson #2162
Horace Johnson #2167
SS/D 427 Ford Fairlane
NHRA-IHRA

Re: Ford in Comp Eliminator?????
 

oops. just reread it. my bad.

Re: Ford in Comp Eliminator?????
 

Thanks Jeff for mentioning our N/A Shootout series where the Fords do pretty darn well. Basically the Mustangs of both Leonard Long and Charlie Booze are prime examples of NHRA Supermods but with small tires and mufflers running right along side of comp. Our 10.5 class is the faily laxed in rules but stringent enough to keep these guys side by side in the lights, heads up and no breakouts and no cic. Junior Pro Stock if you will. But our 10.5 class also has heavy hitters in with small block mopars, AMC's and Pontiacs making tons of steam as well, so we are really a battle of the manufacturers, all of them.

Anyone looking for a change or something new to try, check us out, we welcome you to come try us on for size and see what this new craze is all about.

Rich Maitre, race director
Naturally Aspirated Shootout
www.nashootout.com

Re: Ford in Comp Eliminator?????
 

What class does a '49 Merc 296 Flathead fit in? How do you get a block on a flowbench? Hey Rich, have you ever done a Ford Y Block? LOL!! Keep up the good work.

Re: Ford in Comp Eliminator?????
 

Uh it will cost alot and you better have lots of spares cause nobody else in the pits will when you break a rocker or something. I keep buying parts and the gm cars or lack of rule enforcement keeps makin em obsolete... I have been running SS/AS just to dodge the recent index bashing and my 16 time world champ buddy tells me he has an East Texas 09 Cobalt and a $50000 motor on order to run AS with, so looks like I will have to keep on buyin new about to be obsolete parts :P I can't afford the rings or the valvetrain components anymore.. it costs more for lifter bushings and the cam tunnels than the blocks cost and a set of rings is almost as much as one... if it ain't on Ebay, and it ain't, I can't afford it anymore.. I don't have $50000 in my 401K much less to blow on an engine for a class that the car counts are getting scary low here lately... been there, done that.. anybody wanna buy a ole Mike Bos Modified car?... still got it, pay $50 a month to keep it in mothballs til I can try to put some kinda engine in it to give it away... Yeah so glad I got the comp bug when I was a kid, thanks dad... But hey if someone else wants to pony up the $100-150 in developing a sbf combo I will be watchin here on the internet sayin "go get'em chief!" LOL more power to ya! Go Erich Bollman, keep on keepin on buddy! They're gettin as much as anybody in recent years, kudos! :)

Re: Ford in Comp Eliminator?????
 

Oh yeah I hope enough people get to see my last post before the forummaster violates my 1st amendment rights and pulls it off here and bans me again even though the wasn't ANY profanity. The truth shall set you free.. hah! the truth shall get you banned! :P

See you guys in another 6 months or never whichever.. hehe

Re: Ford in Comp Eliminator?????
 

What in that post would get you banned?

Re: Ford in Comp Eliminator?????
 

Hey Mike, I will be part of the lonely Ford ss club soon. How about 1967 mustang coupe running ss/am w/d3 heads. I have been running hotrod for too long, so now I can afford to drive myself crazy in ss.LOL

Re: Ford in Comp Eliminator?????
 

D3's are the way to go, or SC1 depending on rules, but heck they're just silly rules and nobody else really follows em anyways..

And thats why I musta got banned cause I wrote a reply about how a certain sanctioning body changes rules to accomodate people running illegal parts i.e. the retro fuel head rule change at the beginning of the year. The A/ED carb rule change a couple years ago(i'm kinda responsible for that one I think) The econo cylinder head rule changes in comp 3 years ago... and theres probably more but hey who's counting?.. Like I said I never swore in the post but it was removed and I was banned... said it was for language.. All I said was 100% truth nothing more, nothing less...

Re: Ford in Comp Eliminator?????
 

I ran a Ford probe C/A in div 6 around 1999-2001. I built a 356 with yates heads and was able to run .58 under the index at the time. Today a Ford could still be competitive in comp,down in aus the pro stocks are 400 ci and fords are doing well there.

There is nothing really holding fords back these days,the parts really don't cost that much more then the chevy stuff and you have to remember all the good chevy heads are based off the splayed valve yates head....

If I was not able to get Hurleys T-bird like I did I would be building a new C/A mustang to race.Howie Stevens should have his new Don Ness built mustang real soon and it will run either B/A or C/A and I think it will be very competitive.He has some killer heads that are as good as anything out there.My friend holds the C/A record right now with a splayed valve chevy deal and Howies stuff is better by far then his.

A Ford can be done in comp...I think nobody does it because you are pretty much on your own,no going to the local engine builder and ordering a .65 under engine..

Re: Ford in Comp Eliminator?????
 

My brother, Trent and I have recently built the Super Mod Mustang on the first page of this thread. We are attempting to run E/SM with a 318" wedge-headed piece. The first outing was the Brainerd div 5 race back in May. The car ran a 9.05 on the first pass with the new motor, which is just short of -.10 under the index - not too shabby for a home-built car and a couple of guys who have only ever ran Stock Eliminator. That weekend ended up a bust as we went into the bellhousing and proceeded to slow the car down every pass with our "wise" clutch adjustments! We have done only limited testing locally since and slowly but surely we are sneaking up on the clutch set-up, etc. The motor is far from a "killer" - I think if we get the set-up perfect the combo is good for -.30 or so, probably not much more.

Everyone thinks that the Ford's are too expensive to build campared to the GM stuff. That is a farce! Ford's aren't expensive... Comp is! Call Eaton enterprises and ask them what they get for a new carb-to-pan SB2 Chevy... I guarantee you that a pretty stout Ford can be built on that budget! Where the GM stuff has the clear advantage is in raw numbers... many more cars, engine combos, approved heads, engine builders, etc. The "r&d" field is huge compared to other makes.

For example, a guy goes to Panella for a motor and has a falling out. He then takes that motor to Patterson for freshening. After a fall out with Patterson he takes the motor to Eaton... see the pattern? They have all seen each others stuff and taken the "good stuff" from each. Pretty hard to do that with Ford stuff when there are only a hand-full out there, if that. The other advantage that the GM guys have, specifically in Super Mod, is the number of good heads that GM has made available. You are really limited when looking for a good head (especially a wedge) with a Ford part number. The gap is not quite as wide with the Yates canted/splayed valves stuff, but I do believe that the GM splayed stuff is better than the Yates stuff on average.

We will keep plugging away. A Ford CAN definitely be competitive - it is just a lot steeper of a hill to climb as we are mostly doing it alone. Who knows, maybe I will have to fall inline and be a good little boy with a automatic and a Cobalt - ever seen one of those?!?

-tg

Re: Ford in Comp Eliminator?????
 

Travis, long time! You have a PM.

Jay Roeder

Re: Ford in Comp Eliminator?????
 

I think you will do just fine. If you can survive stock eliminator you will do fine in comp.

Re: Ford in Comp Eliminator?????
 

Travis, I see you are entered at INDY. I will try to look you up.

Greg

Re: Ford in Comp Eliminator?????
 

I have been running in the NMRA, and working out my combination. I have enough to run with the NMRA guys in thier heads up Hot Street, but dont think it will cut it in Super Mod yet. I am working with some new parts this year and a bigger budget than I have ever had, so this may be the year I try to move up. Only problem is its a 2800# car with a 360 inch motor with Yates heads and a Dart Aluminum Block.

Is the Aluminum Block legal in comp?

Re: Ford in Comp Eliminator?????
 

OEM block MANDATORY !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1 in A thru I /sm--Comp387

Re: Ford in Comp Eliminator?????
 

Rule book only says OEM spacing mandatory. does not say it has to be a OEM part # block and if thats the case what Block are all the Ford guys running? none of the stock blocks will hold the HP needed to run the power they are making.

Re: Ford in Comp Eliminator?????
 

Page 210 under engine requirements----OEM block mandatory!!!!!!!!!!! Goes on to mention MUST ALSO BE OEM BORE CENTER SPACING MANDATORY !!!!!!!!!!! If Ford makes a block that is Aluminum AND has the correct bore spacing you MIGHT I say MIGHT be able to use it --If it was me BEFORE I did anything at all I would get a letter from that the block you plan on using is an accepted piece first, then I would do my machine work but the way NHRA tech is I would cover my *** --they have been known to change their minds---Comp 387

Re: Ford in Comp Eliminator?????
 

I meant to say get a letter from NHRA--Comp

Re: Ford in Comp Eliminator?????
 

A letter from NHRA dont mean anything anymore. I had a letter faxed to me from someone in Ca. about accepted aftermarket front end on the Mustang for SS and was told the QA1 tubular front end was ok in the Modifies class. When I had the car inspected for getting the cage certified, I asked the tech guy and he said that is not the case. I showed him the letter, and I was informed that aftermarket front ends were not legal in SS mod. and I would have to change it before I raced the car, unless I wanted to run Comp he thought they were made legal there. Anyway a few days later I get a e-mail from the person in CA. saying they were sorry they mis-read the rule, and they were sorry. In the mean time I already bought and installed a $1400. front end that I cant use.

Makes me just want to say @#$% it all and run S/G or brackets.