Attn 396, 375hp iron head racers
 

Since there are only 2 more national events before the review process, I'm posting to see if any Camaro or Nova racers would like to save this combo from 5 hp. The engine average is safe, but there are 2 triggers. One in C/SA and one in A/SA. C is safe, as the ave. is well below 1.00, but A is in trouble because there was only 1 race in this review period, which was Clark Holroyd's heads up run at Pomona at -1.17
So if anyone went -.82 in A/SA, that would bring the average below 1.00. I would have loved to do this, but the Chevelle is a B,C,D car.
Any takers? Thank you!

Re: Attn 396, 375hp iron head racers
 

I think there is only one National left to get around the AHFS with Norwalk having no stock and Denver not counted because of alt..

Re: Attn 396, 375hp iron head racers
 

Mark,

Isn't the overall average of every iron head 396-375 Camaro, Nova, and Chevelle, w/automatics, at national events this season the figure they use? Thats the way I thought it was anyway.

Jim

Re: Attn 396, 375hp iron head racers
 

Jim-

That's the way it should be, but it's not how they do it. If they can't get it with the group, then they do the average by class. Therefore, A will get the combo hit. The reason is because the average is over 1.00 in A with this combo. Dumb, isn't it? So Mark is asking for somebody that can tech in A, and run .82 under or slower, to offset the average of 1.17 under.

Re: Attn 396, 375hp iron head racers
 

Thanks Sean,
I knew what Mark was asking for, but are you saying that only the A cars will get the hp?

Re: Attn 396, 375hp iron head racers
 

To quote the departed Len Imbrogno, 'AHFS" is a simple system"...years into it and questions multiply.It just gets curiouser and curiouser as Alice in Wonderland said....

Re: Attn 396, 375hp iron head racers
 

I had just never heard of it being done this way, last year we all got hit, I'll bet thats the way it is this year too.

Re: Attn 396, 375hp iron head racers
 

Jim-

No, the "combination" hit will be because of A. If A drops below the required 1.00 second under average, then the horsepower on the iron head remains the same.

I know this, because the 350/295 combo has gotten horsepower the last two reviews in SS. GT/AA is the only class that has been over 1.00 under, so the entire combo has received HP. Not taking into account, the only cars that have flagged the review were Cavaliers, or Sunfires. So now all the body styles that run this combo have to carry the new HP. NICE HUH?

Re: Attn 396, 375hp iron head racers
 

Jim,
Sean is right. Because the second thing they look at is class average, ALL cars in the group would get horsepower based just on A.
This is how we got the last adjustment a year ago. Even though the engine average was safe, the next factor got us.

Re: Attn 396, 375hp iron head racers
 

The aluminum head has the same problem. The overall engine average is safe, but there were a lot of fast runs in B/SA that brought the average in at -1.02x, so this combination will get hp because of the class average being more than -1.00

Re: Attn 396, 375hp iron head racers
 

ED...it is too bad you don't run one of the 396/375 combos, if you did then the average would be way down, they need more dumb asses like you with this combo who would never be able to run fast to keep from getting hit.......

Re: Attn 396, 375hp iron head racers
 

Mark,
Thats what I mean, we all get it, not just a car in A.
Hell, I hope they give it 25.....

Re: Attn 396, 375hp iron head racers
 

Jim, 25??? Would you go fishing then, or what?

Re: Attn 396, 375hp iron head racers
 

Mark,
I'm going fishing if they give us 5. This stupid system needs to be taken out.
I do see your point though, and Sean's, and I'm glad you brought it up like you did so we can all see what can be done to dodge the hit. We have to get the average down in A, or we are all going to get it.

Thanks,

Re: Attn 396, 375hp iron head racers
 

NHRA's example is misleading. First, NHRA looks at all runs (not class) and body styles with the same motor to determine the average. If not above 1.00 then the look at the only the body style.

Westly detailed this to me when we got hit in Dec 07 with only two national events above 1.15 by someone with a different body style.

Re: Attn 396, 375hp iron head racers
 

I'm just curious...you set up this plan, everybody agree's and somebody's ego get's in the way.Will there be a lynching (with all do respect to the Lynches that happen to run this combo)?
Maybe the AHFS can spin off into a business venture. You guys could band together and pay somebody to build a slug. That or you can all get new brake pads before the next race.

Re: Attn 396, 375hp iron head racers
 

Mark, is it mathematically possible for the aluminum head average to be brought below 1 under based on what we run at Englishtown? Can it still be saved?

Re: Attn 396, 375hp iron head racers
 

the body style statement is correct. One winter I had two stockers, both of which got hit by different body styles (before I ever made it down the track in either new car).

at that point an 84 pontiac firebird got hp for an 80 camaro (slightly differnt body styles and sizes?)

when I inquired about it, I do not believe I was ever given a rationale that I could understand.

bring back hot tubs & harleys...

Re: Attn 396, 375hp iron head racers
 

Dave you and Peter can save the index at E-town

Re: Attn 396, 375hp iron head racers
 

I'm pretty sure it has to be the guys entered in B.

Re: Attn 396, 375hp iron head racers
 

I Have no Dog in this FIGHT


Get these racers to SLOW DOWN


Gary Richard
Barry Parker
Jim Bodreau
Woody Pagano

I thinks some of these racers run 396 CI???????????????????????????????

I have no dog in this FIGHT

Re: Attn 396, 375hp iron head racers
 

Bobby, Woody is not related to me, I met him once before I moved down here to AR

Re: Attn 396, 375hp iron head racers
 

Dave,
I didn't get all the numbers on the aluminum head.I think it would be possible, but tough. There were a lot of runs in B/SA that brought the average up above -1.00 so it would take a few people at .5 to .7 under.
Wesley told me that if we ever have a question about any combination, call him and he would run the numbers.

Re: Attn 396, 375hp iron head racers
 

All racers that I listed are entered @ Englishtown

Call Wesley and get the numbers and call these racers to see if they can help.

Re: Attn 396, 375hp iron head racers
 

Thanks Mark. I will talk to all these racers this weekend at Atco... Not making any promises though.

on a side note...this playing the numbers game is a chicken **** deal that racers here in Division 1 have to play at Englishtown year after year..and it sucks! With Englishtown being the last race before the review this is becoming a race where we are asked to load our cars up with weight and run different classes because of the carelessness of our fellow west coast racers with the same combos. This same exact thing happening last year with SS racers protecting their combos. We should not have to do the dirty work for the combo while others go 1.15+ at first few Nationals for NO GOOD REASON. Do they not sell weight bars out west?? Or are the egos to big to run 100 or 200 lbs heavy?? There is a time and place to go fast and show off what you have built....why do it where you get penalized?

Re: Attn 396, 375hp iron head racers
 

Dave, Thank you for trying to help out. One problem with the first couple races out west was there were some heads up races that really hurt the average for both combintions. 2 that I can recall this morning were Pomona, Holroyd vs Sorensen (iron) where both were -1.17, and Phoenix, DeFrank vs Diekema (aluminum) and it was -1.22 to -1.23, so triggers were inevitable. I won't comment on the other, non heads up runs that affected the average.

Re: Attn 396, 375hp iron head racers
 

IMO, if they look at the overall average of an engine combination and it figures at under a second under that should be enough to make a decision. But going to every class that the combo has run in and finding one run to base a decision to add horsepower is just a bunch of bull. The system is flawed enough without using that silly angle.

Re: Attn 396, 375hp iron head racers
 

Hey Dave,
Lighten up on the west coast guys. They only have the PTS Meets & A few Nationals to feed their ego's. They might have one open if my old memory is working. All us East coast & Central guys have many more races available to attend. Opens, Pts Meets & National events within a reasonalble area. I think that gives us more ego stroking than the West coast guys. I bet you would't lay down for another A/SA in a finals, Esp if you could show Sorenson your tail lights. I wouldn't take a dive in the finals for any index. Way back when... I only took a dive or two when the car owner ordered it. Hope you guys work out something & save the 396 HP.

Re: Attn 396, 375hp iron head racers
 

Bob, no doubt..Heads up and all bets are off ! Not asking anyone to take a dive, just to be smart about it. I understand those heads up races were tight and nothing could have been done to prevent it. Barry Parker and I raced heads up a few years ago at the Atco open in A..We both had the potential to run 1.40 under so we decided first to the 1000' wins then we would dump. Same thing can be applied to Nationals when 1.15 comes into play...unless you are wheel to wheel of course.

Re: Attn 396, 375hp iron head racers
 

That says it all..why should it be saved??With a commite..the iron-head probably never would have been in question for hp but the alu-head for sure would have got some...and what have an average to do with the pontential of a combo...something you can tamper with yourself..

Re: Attn 396, 375hp iron head racers
 

Do run against the likes of Shaul, Miele, Hawk, Horensky, and Conte every weekend? All combos as fast if not faster than the 396 which will most likely never get horsepower. No doubt the 396 is a good combo and probably deserves some hp...but their are others combos that should get it before the 396. So why shouldn't we protect it for as long as we can? You said it yourself... "With a committee.....". If there was a legitimate committee, we wouldn't have to protect it because all the other combos would be in line as well.

Re: Attn 396, 375hp iron head racers
 

Dumping at 1000'! That is one the major problems with stock today.

Re: Attn 396, 375hp iron head racers
 

Yep..I agree..there are others that are worse...the Index(or the 1.15) is whats wrong..but the other "great" combo's are not so many.. so they can control thier own destiny...stupid system!

Re: Attn 396, 375hp iron head racers
 

Most 396/375 racers are able to run well under the index, getting hit 5 hp will not change this. Take the hit and get on with more important issues, what ever they may be.

Re: Attn 396, 375hp iron head racers
 

maybe the 402 needs a hit........

Re: Attn 396, 375hp iron head racers
 

maybe the 402 needs a hit........

Yeah, that should fix it all.

Re: Attn 396, 375hp iron head racers
 

AFHS, this post reminds me of SURVIVOR. Be thankful you have an average, last time I was hit it was NOT during their scheduled rounds.

A very unfair system, slowly finding it's way to the masses............

Re: Attn 396, 375hp iron head racers
 

It depends on the year, which heads (aluminum or iron), and which body.

Re: Attn 396, 375hp iron head racers
 

The 70 Camaro With The 402 Needs To Get Hit Also !

Re: Attn 396, 375hp iron head racers
 

Yeah, I think your'e right on that uh, is it engine?