Considering going Stocker Racing
 

Ive been toying aroung going stocker racing for a bit now.I will probabaly have a $35000 budget to play with once I sell my current ride which I bit off more than I could chew.(with the price of gas it will be very difficult to have fun with it).Im leaning going E,F or G Automatic.I am new to this (Stocker that is not drag racing).I am considering an early Camaro,Nova 70s or 78-80 Malibu. SBC will be the engine of choice and a Glide.I don't want to be super competitive at first.I just want to learn.I have been reading up on it(NHRA Rule book).Can anyone steer me in the right direction as far as the class and weight etc. and building the car.From the reading ive done there are many talented individuals on this forum.I was just looking for a bit of direction and insight as to my gameplan.RIGHT NOW IT IS ONLY A GAME PLAN. I JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE I DON'T OVER DO IT AGAIN !!!!

P.S. Im in L.I. NY

Thanks

Louie

Re: Considering going Stocker Racing
 

Check the ads on racingkunk.com and the classifieds on this site. There is a late 70's Malibu stocker in western Canada for $15K. There are 2 late 70's Nova stockers for sale. One is in Quebec and the other on Prince Edward Island. They run I, J or K/SA and are priced around $15K as well. If you like Mopars, there is a nice 340 Duster out of Maine for $17K. There is also a N/SA Pontiac LeMans for sale in New Jersey for $10.5K. Muscle car era Camaros and Novas are usually higher money and they sell quickly. I agree with Steve that you are far better off buying an already built car.

Re: Considering going Stocker Racing
 

6682, you have a private message.

Re: Considering going Stocker Racing
 

Louie,

Steve, Bob are both right..The days of building cars are gone unless you have lots of $$$$$$$.
You first need to decide how fast you want to go and how much you want to spend, don't forget about getting to the races Tow Truck & Trailers... Always remember, no-matter what you buy, you will want to do or change something (paint /wheels/ etc.) Just like a house !!!! Buy what you want and can afford, but don't get in over your head like most people do, its suppost to be Fun... There are lots of nice Cars out there For Sale.. You can call me or
e-mail.... daveribeiro@aol.com or 757-253-0581..... Good Luck , what ever you do, jump in the water is fine.............Dave,

Re: Considering going Stocker Racing
 

Buy dont build, your 35 grand will be gone before your finished. Lots of cars for sale that can run the number, just look on this site for starters and racingjunk too.

Re: Considering going Stocker Racing
 

Seeing that you live on L.I. your best bet is to seek out other Long Islanders already racing Stock and come to some races with them.You'll get the feel to see if it's what you want to do.Class racing isn't for everyone.If you find it isn't you saved yourself a bundle of moolah.If it is ,welcome to the jungle.

Ed F.

Re: Considering going Stocker Racing
 

Thanks guys,like I said just a game plan right now,Yes I have been looking on RacingJunk and so forth.Im sure whatever I get I will end up changing something,I have a 72 Chevelle that I race right now but I feel I bit off more than I could chew(TOO BIG OF A MOTOR, BACKHALF,ITS NOT FUN ANYMORE JUST TOO MUCH MONEY).I have the truck and an enclosed trailer with all the goodies,I just need to be steered in the right direction.I will keep you all updated.

Re: Considering going Stocker Racing
 

Come to Lebanon Valley for the division race
There will be about 100 stockers maybe more there you can look and learn and talk to the guys and girls about what they have and why they race what they have
It is also a good way to learn about stockers running in the heat

mark callanan


***The Duster talked about that is for sale in Maine I believe is a good car for the money It at one time held the record for its class I beleive (it may even be at the race at the Valley)

As someone said it is about having fun...

Re: Considering going Stocker Racing
 

I got a pretty fast F -G H /sa 1969 NOVA
Located Shirley L.I. James 631 834 0511

Re: Considering going Stocker Racing
 

Louie -- These boys are certainly steering you in the right direction as the cost to build a combination that's unknown to you can be thru the moon .Buy something with a pedigree and take along a seasoned veteran when your looking -- he or she can tell you if you're barking up the wrong tree . As Ed said --welcome to the jungle ..................

PS -- That field trip to Lebanon Valley might not be a bad investment as you'll get to see some of the good , the bad and the ugly ! ! !

Re: Considering going Stocker Racing
 

I think you are better off building one from scratch.
Your typical competitive e-k muscle car will bring 20-25 grand. Then you will want to "PAINT THE HOUSE" so to speak and spend another 10 grand. All of a sudden you have $35,000 grand in a stocker.
I know I did it 3 times, and a crate motor to boot. You would think I would've learned by now.LOL
If you Don't want a muscle car and can do any of the work yourself, You can do a nice car for less than $20,000. If you want a muscle car add the price of the car to that.
Just my opinion
Retired Class racer
Chip Johnson

Re: Considering going Stocker Racing
 

Chip -- Get real -- how many stocker guys are spending 10 grand on paint ? And if guys had $35K they could buy most they could buy almost any stocker that's for sale on the market today not just lower class cars . Buying a "starter" stocker is still the best value ...........

Re: Considering going Stocker Racing
 

Jack will you be at the valley with the car??

Re: Considering going Stocker Racing
 

If you have been reading the rulebooks, NHRA and IHRA, then you know that stock eliminator has many restrictions. One cannot do anything their heart desires with their car. Superstock has restrictions as well, but is much more expensive. If you want or desire the challenge of trying to make a car fast in it's class with the limitations NHRA allows, you will love class racing. This is why I don't race a bracket car. Stock would be a good place to start. Jerry Ryan has a Nova stocker roller for sale. It's a nice car and he is a good man with lots of savvy regarding stock/superstock. I'm sure he'd be of some help. Scroll down the For Sale section, maybe a few pages back, to find it.

Re: Considering going Stocker Racing
 

Louie,
I'll give you my scenerio. 1 1/2 years of work and about $20,000 and my best run to date is .37 under. Did my own chassis, engine, trans, and carb. It would have been more cost effective to buy one done. That being said, I wouldn't change a thing. I have learned a lot. I like the way my car looks (a body style I liked, painted and detailed how I wanted it). The fast guys at the track have been supportive, friendly, and have offered lots of advice. I have had a blast so far (except when I raced Keith Lynch in Jim Marshall's car heads up) that was hillarious. My advice is if you want to learn a lot and you dont mind gettin your ***** kicked for a while, build one. If you can't handle that, buy one thats allready fast. I will caution you about one thing. I've been around racing for over 30 years and I have never worked so hard on anything in my life. If you don't like working on them, do not go class racing!
Good Luck!
Joe

Re: Considering going Stocker Racing
 

Jack,
You get real. Your paint job does'nt look like a MAACO to me. I was'nt just talking about the paint either.
Paint,Wheels,Tires,Wiring,interior,Etc,Etc,Etc You will spend another 10K.
A cheap paint job will run you a minimum of 3-4 grand unless you do it yourself.
Wheels and tires are another $2,000. Then you will want to put new interior and chrome to highlight that nice paint job Oh it's jus gonna be a few hundred more dollars. Oh while we are at it lets go ahead and put new Tach and gauges in. Might as well rewire the car too. Almost forgot While we are rewiring lets do the Fuel and brake lines too. Now we have spent another couple grand also. Then we go to our first race. We run a couple tenths under and are tickled to death until we loose that Heads up run 2nd rd. Then we go and buy that trick carb,trick headers,Liteweight radials, trick tranny and convertor.

Jack get out the Calculator you been doing this a long time. That $15,000 stocker will cost you another $20,000 minimum, unless you are content with Shoepolish racing.
Chip Johnson

Re: Considering going Stocker Racing
 

Joe,
You're did exactly what I was getting to. You did your car. You spent $20,000 but you know what you got.
It won't cast you that much more to run with the faster cars.
Chip

Re: Considering going Stocker Racing
 

Never build one unless you like pain
Or are at the top of the class and have built one many times
Much better to buy a fast one...

Re: Considering going Stocker Racing
 

The paint is the least of my problems.I used to be a bodyman,miggin and tiggin is no problem either,built a few motors also.I KNOW THAT BUILDING A STOCKER MOTOR/CAR IS GONNA BE A WHOLE DIFFERNET STORY.Nice to know that all are supportive.Hopefull I can finish my junk and sell and move on with this journey.






http://s233.photobucket.com/albums/ee300/profgh6682/

Re: Considering going Stocker Racing
 

IF you KNOW Stock Eliminator, AND you can do all or at least most of the work your self, AND you can get good deals on parts AND the work you can't do, then you might try building one. If ALL of the above DOES NOT fit you, then BUY a nice running car that goes 5-7 tenths under for your $35K, learn, and work your way up.

Re: Considering going Stocker Racing
 

I have a 70 nova, freah paint for sale, come see it at Lebanon. will run 1 second plus under. I have built a car and bought a car, easy to buy a car and build on what you buy, Good luck, if you come to Lebanon tlak to all the stockers in the lane, great group of
racers in D-1.

XCHAMP1317@aol.com

Re: Considering going Stocker Racing
 

WOW !!!!!!!! Did I open a can of worms.I feel will be bitting off alot more than I can chew.Talk about the JUNGLE !!!!!I dont have a problem working and learning.Dont know if I can make Lebonon but I will try and get to the Grove ,Atco or E-Town in the near future.I will make sure I try and hook up with some of the guys on this board so we can chat.

Thanks Guys I will keep you all posted

Re: Considering going Stocker Racing
 

1987 Camaro I/SA 305 motor fuel injected----3 speed trans---just quailified ,75 under at Englistown---nice clean car---red paint---$18,500---contact Martin Flegal at 717-859-2784 7 to 7 Mon thru Fri--easy & fun to drive

Re: Considering going Stocker Racing
 

Hey, I can tell you it is a STEEP learning curve. I've had TONS of help from GREAT people, and STILL have further to go. I do what I can to help people who need help and ask. And I tell people the truth about it. So I'm just trying to be honest, I think you'll get the same answer from others, and I'm sure you're smart enough to figure it out.

Re: Considering going Stocker Racing
 

sorry to butt in off topic. but just sayin hello cowboy , never got your cell # . iron mike in route to norwalk now . havent seen u since bristol . stay safe my friend !! ok back to the regularly scheduled program

Re: Considering going Stocker Racing
 

I'm puzzled, you have a nearly completed bracket or street shootout type car there that is real nice, but you talk of the expense being too much.
The reason I bracket race instead of class race is the expense and work involved with class racing....maybe when I was younger, and if I had ten times the money, I'd be a class racer.

Nothing is cheap about class racing, from the entry fees to having a legal car that runs close to or under the indexes.

There is no cheaper way to race competitively than "no rules", run what ya brung brackets, and you can do it every week in your locale, that weather permits.
I get 700 to 1200 runs from an engine.....well, there was that used one that I only got 250 or so out of. :(

Class racing will involve serious travel time and expense if you want to have grade points to run the big events.

Just curious what makes you think a class car would be cheaper?:confused:

Re: Considering going Stocker Racing
 

Louie, please send me your EMail address. LGaluk@aol.com. Thanks, Mike

Mike Galuk
JOE COOL RACING

Re: Considering going Stocker Racing
 

Dave,Like I said I have been considering it and just wanted to get some insight on it.From the responses I am getting its sounds like it will be a full just trying to be somewhat competitive.Its a bit intimidating to say the least.I was looking to just do some close Div 1 trips.I really seems more involved than I imagined.I am being honest.It is all new to me.I know my car is almost done.Are they really done?

Thanks for your input

Re: Considering going Stocker Racing
 

Chip - Thanks for noticing that I don't have a "Maaco" paint job (and I'm sure my painter Ryan Korek thanks you also). But my point is that most guys don't want or need a 10K paint makeover .
The idea is to buy the very best on day 1 - spend what you have to and its cheaper in the long run .
Like many have said - how long does it take to get a combo right? All the trips to the track cost -- all the parts that don't work cost - all the entry fees that are wasted cost . And on and on ......
Spend the big bucks in the beginning and it'll be cheaper in the long run and you can have fun on the very first day . My calculator works just fine -- those trick parts are going to come along at some point anyway -- so get ready to buy them when they do -- this is not a cheap sport . Like I said before when you go looking its best to take along someone who is a great judge of "horseflesh" to make sure you don't buy yesterday's technology and a bad class combination . Our team has built many cars in the last ten years or so and I can tell you that for most its a bad idea to start from scratch . Speed costs -- let someone else pay ...............

Mark -- I won't be in the "Jungle" at Lebanon but maybe we can catch- up at another track .

Re: Considering going Stocker Racing
 

Somebody has to build some new cars or there will never be a net gain of class cars, just recycled owners. I know here in Div. 6 its the same cars year after year. Makes it easy for the track announcer though. Build it the ETs will come, unless you want a record holder from the get go.

Re: Considering going Stocker Racing
 

Near the end of my stocker project.

You can purchase an existing car and go racing.
A state of the art, fresh car is not going to be for sale for cheap.
If it's cheap, expect to update and freshen it.

It is a tremendous amount of work / time / money to build what could be a state of the art,competitive car. I have spent more than expected knowing how much was saved by research, help from others who know more, and calling in some favors. it pays to purchase good parts once if possible. When you build it yourself you know what you have therefore no surprises. (The seller told me it has lightweight trans and ring & pinion........ You don't know you have it till you look.... closely)

The truth be known to build a good consistent 10 second footbrake car these days costs 20K.
A competitive stocker built for 20-30k should not be considered a lot of money. If you pay to have all the labor done as well as purchase parts, even at racer discount, it will cost 50k easy.

Re: Considering going Stocker Racing
 

Jack,
I agree with your last post. It all depends on what you want. If you want pretty and fast you'll spend a lot.
If you want Pretty Fast you'll spend some.
If you want #LAST qualifier it will be "Less Expensive"

Speed cost how fast you want to go depends on how much you want to spend.
Chip

Re: Considering going Stocker Racing
 

So...You want to go stocker racing in the New Enhanced NHRA .... Tell me why havent your friends & family had you committed for Mental Evaluation????? LOL

Re: Considering going Stocker Racing
 

Lots of great advice already posted. Might be a good idea to look at your local competition in the class you hope to run and first decide how fast you need to run. If you can get away with .5 under, you might be able to carefully put together a car with a good combination, decent machine work and not too expensive parts. I started out with used TRW pistons and flogged it down to .6 under after a year. But, to go 1+ under, in my opinion, everything in the short block had to go high dollar, index crank, high dollar pistons, exotic ring package, many thousands of dollars more just in parts plus more machine work, etc. Now, to go 1.20+ under you'll need expensive step or better headers, merge collectors, great trans and converter, excellent shocks, quality traction device, radials, high dollar carb, mondo fuel system, etc. These are just examples, there's lots more but you get the idea...To figure all this out, you'll need tons of great advice from guys that are fast, and tons of money to cycle multiple parts through the car to determine what works best for your particular combination. For example, I cycled 7 converters through my car in one year to get the best one, then went to a metric trans and bought three more to get one I felt worked well, these are around $1000. each, of course the others can hopefully be sold to get some money back. The same goes for most of the other parts on the car, you have to experiment, it's a lot of hard work, time and effort unless you are very fortunate and get it right early on. Someone posted to do it once and buy the best first, great advice! Otherwise you're re-doing each system over again as you learn and improve. My fuel system went from small to medium to large pump, then large to larger to return style for lines and regulators. If I'd put the best stuff on first, I'd have saved money and time, as well as eliminating a possible problem area. Not to discourage you, it's very rewarding if you enjoy the challenge and can invest the time and money.
My opinion, buy the fast car where someone has done all the above, you'll be years of effort and many, many thousands of dollars ahead. There's a limited market for these specialised cars, so there are cars available if you look that really should be much more than what they will actually sell for in today's market. Just my 2 cents worth....

Re: Considering going Stocker Racing
 

Buy or build a car that you really like and want ...when you are out after first round...you will still feel somewhat good when you take the car home...it will make it more enjoyable in the long run and easier to spend the all that money! If you like to work on the car...then build one,then you will get the parts and pieces YOU want and where YOU want them...but if you are happy just to race in stock..BUY ONE!

Re: Considering going Stocker Racing
 

Grant is right on in his assesments. The only thing I would ad to this or any other post BUY THE USED RACE CAR ONLY AFTER WATCHING IT RUN AND THEN ONLY AFTER YOU HAVE SPENT A SOLID 1/2 OR FULL DAY INSPECTING THE CAR WITH A KNOWLEDEABLE FRIEND, PREFERABLY WITH ACCESS TO A LIFT (TO CALM DOWN YOUR EXCITEMENT).

A frind of mine just bought a car from across the country that ended up being only about .400 slower than reported (after taking into account weather condition variations). I told him to schedule a track appearance but he didn't. He did get a nice car at a reasonable cost. But it was full of poorly repaired / burnt wiring, loose suspension components, a fuel system that consisted of factory 5/16" lines coming out of the fuel tank mated to larger lines with a nice 90 degree kink in the 5/16" line and a stall convertor rated at at least 1000 RPM higher than what is required for the application (which also had an efficiency rating that calculates to only 86%; 95% or better being preferred). And now it looks like everything may be up to par but then the ring gear broke. Now it looks like everything is repaired or replaced but it's summer here in AZ and it's to hot to evaluate the changes.
And in the end it looks like the car will serve it's purpose. But it's extremely frustrating to buy a used car and find you need to spend not so much money to get it fixed (because it is a used car) but the time in trying to diagnose the problem area's (in this case there were many). At one point you could have picked this car up for free, the new owner was that disappointed.
So like I said, check it out not once but twice and if things aren't as claimed in the advertising, walk away or re-negotiate! Or build yourself, which is what I've always done. But be prepared to spend 3x from your best calculations in bothe time and money.
Good luck. It's not as bad out there as people make it sound...!

Re: Considering going Stocker Racing
 

The good thing about building your own car is that you get to build it like you want. If I bought a car I would probably end up re-doing everything and would spend more money in the long run.

Greg

Re: Considering going Stocker Racing
 

Greg,
Did it to 3 different cars. The new owners of 2 of the cars did it again. The 3rd just got it last week.
Chip

Re: Considering going Stocker Racing
 

I started drag racing in 1966 with a Jr. Stock '57 Chevy sedan delivery. Every once in a while I get attracted to go back to my early days. Bad idea.......A few years ago I did it again. This time....I had to have one of these wheelstanding EFI 10 second late model F- bodies. Sold my dragster, bought a good roller that came with a lot of parts. Built my own engine, tuned the EFI myself.....no dyno time......ran some good numbers here and there. Felt like I was doing ok......needed to spend more time and money getting it better......rules changes.....economy changes...... basic facts...Stockers are not good bracket cars...racing it locally to tune it and your driving means running against todays bracket cars.....your at a number of disadvantages there. So that leaves you with competing at NHRA races....costs are way up to travel and race.....ok so it all costs a lot no matter where you go and if you enjoy running with the stocker crowd...great. but for me it wasn't working so I sold my stocker and went back to a dragster...way more "user friendly" and I enjoy it a lot more.....power and speed makes me smile...wheelstands are fun...but as someone I worked for once said..."you could do a wing walk while racing that car"......Too Friggen slow for the time and money spent.......Stock is great but you gotta really love it.........

Re: Considering going Stocker Racing
 

Many people have bought fast stockers....rebuilt them thinking I can make it even faster....
And they ran slower!!!