NHRA Fastest 128 cars
 

Nhra posted fastest 128 cars make the field. Class winners can not bump in.

http://www.nhra.com/content/divnews....0497&zoneid=12

Effective July 14, 2008, class winners in Super Stock and Stock will no longer be automatically placed into the eliminator fields. All national and divisional Super Stock and Stock eliminator fields will be based on the quickest 128 qualifiers.

Re: NHRA Fastest 128 cars
 

wonder what brought this up??

Re: NHRA Fastest 128 cars
 

At least everyone will race to the finish line -- no 1000' stuff at Indy unlike Englishtown where there was plenty of lifting .Anyone venture a guess of what the "bump" will be this year in Stock and Superstock ...It really should be the fastest 128 cars ( opps - and / or trucks ) .

PS-- Anyone been asked if we wanted this change?

Re: NHRA Fastest 128 cars
 

Unfortunately it can make winning class even less important. Yes it makes the paper cars and bogus cars need to run harder to assure qualifying at Indy but..... what about the class where only thrashed, factored cars run? Probably wont happen that much but....
The question is if the elim is top heavy with cars running way under will their runs be enough at one meet to move their HP ?
I agree with question about what about race with 80 entries? Will the field size be limited to 64? or less? to encourage running fast there too? Seems like it should be arranged to affect ALL meets not just Indy where enough cars attend for a full field.
How does it affect points meets with no 128 car entrants?
The Big Question is WHY? Class winners are important..

Re: NHRA Fastest 128 cars
 

WTF is a paper car???

Re: NHRA Fastest 128 cars
 

A car that exists according to the NHRA as a result of whatever input they accepted but there may/may not be any ceritifiable data to show that the combination was actually produced by the factory.

Re: NHRA Fastest 128 cars
 

NHRA should be embrassing the racers that are making an effort just trying to attend the U.S. Nationals. Never mind making some of them totaly discouraged by changing the ground rules after the event's already been open for entries.
As an owner of a car that I know can't run .5 under, it will make me look at the races that I can attend to get into the main eleminator where a bottle of shoe polish evens everything up. I'm not the only one that races like that and I would expect that the racers that are in the same situation will give a second thought before going to a race that will effectively make the car counts go down. Stock might as well be the same as Comp, the engines are modifed production pieces, so qualifing should be the same as Comp at National events. I think that that is where NHRA is heading in a direction that will effect racing as we know it today. Stock will be a 32 to 64 car field and make them dial the number that they qualifed with, no dialing in anymore. Look at Comp these days, at most of the races there isn't enough cars entered to make a full field and it will bleed off to the other classes as well.
Casey Miles
248H
Used to be F/S, Now E/S That 4 little HP did it!

Re: NHRA Fastest 128 cars
 

Wrong Dick. Class winners USE to be important.

Now the variety of makes and models will fade away. Racers who cannot run fast, STAY HOME. Even if you have been a consistant class winner over the years, you are not wanted at Indy anymore. Guess the big buck racers got tired of being embarrassed during eliminations by a lowly racer who proudly did his own engine/chassis, pulled with an small trailer, and won class.

Its over and done.

Re: NHRA Fastest 128 cars
 

Amen jason!

Re: NHRA Fastest 128 cars
 

Jason -- Winning the class Wally at Indy is important -- always was and always will be ! ! That being said why should anyone get a "Free Pass" into the eliminator ?
Also -- you're wrong about the variety of makes and models -- this year with the combination of F.I. and carbs we'll see old and new more than ever - no 1 brand or type has a stranglehold on any class . Its Indy -- bring you're best stuff.............

Re: NHRA Fastest 128 cars
 

Jack, If you mean by "free pass" a car which wins class on a BYE run. Agreed but maybe set a quota or 3 or 4 cars for the class winner but He or she deserves to be in eliminator. Only reason the fastest 128 would help is IF AHFS would be able to use the runs on one meet an correct Hp quicker.
Ed, Good point....

Re: NHRA Fastest 128 cars
 

Probably just a prelude to the total elimination of class competition. Remember when they ran class at all of the natl events. Just too much racer input and complaining. I cant remember when there was as many knee jerk rule changes as we have seen in the past several years. Seems like there making changes just for change sake. Now we have the sportsman advisory council. I cant wait to see what they come up with. Hopefully their enhancements are better than what we have seen lately. I vote to leave the rules alone for a while and just race.

Re: NHRA Fastest 128 cars
 

Ed -- Good point but if they (front drive cars) could run 1.10 under they were going to get into the field either way .Me -- if that happened I'd turn the wick up ......

Dick -- yes -- I was talking about BYE runs .The AHFS is in effect during Q-runs - it will help even things out.

Mike -- Wally started things with class runoffs -- they will never go away ! When we had class runs at every national event there were only a handful of nationals.

PS--You guys gotta slow down--my typing isn't that fast .

Re: NHRA Fastest 128 cars
 

thanks Tom

Re: NHRA Fastest 128 cars
 

Hey Stefan,

I have one of those so called paper cars. I enjoy very much running the other papers cars. Come to think of it, all the cars listed in the NHRA classification guild are all paper cars. Correct me if I am wrong, but you can't race a car in NHRA unless you put it on paper first.

Paper, man you got to love it.

I hope this helps Stefan.

Re: NHRA Fastest 128 cars
 

LMAO Yo Ken, youre the best...

Re: NHRA Fastest 128 cars
 

Yo Ken -- Paper / Rocks / Scissors .....who cares? Lets just race .............


PS-- Don't have it today but when we had a "98 LT1 " paper car my thoughts were that GM built it and NHRA accepted it to race so...........

Re: NHRA Fastest 128 cars
 

Hey Jack, RE: '98 LT1, GM never built it......NHRA did! Jim

Re: NHRA Fastest 128 cars
 

Jim --You're right -- I've never seen one but the point is that Pontiac said they were OK to race and that's all that is necessary -- I never asked for this combo -- Pontiac wanted it ..........


PS-I gotta stop foolin around on this forum and get my butte back to work ! ! ! ! !

Re: NHRA Fastest 128 cars
 

As someone who ran super stock at Indy from 72 to 83 ,then stock from 83 to 2003.I think some of you are not thinking this thou.....

NHRA at Indy should be class racing winner gets in.....Wally's turning over in his grave.

Now I see 50 97-2000 firebirds & camaro running in Elims. 20 a& b/sa ,too

How much longer before they put ss & stk together and run a bracket race with 1 qiulf run and then just fill in like they do now....so If your car goes 1.15 under so what who did you beat ? not a other car in your class.
That's what Indy,gator ,summer and wintrnationals should always be.....

I may not be good at writing what I want to say, but I hope you get my point.......

Re: NHRA Fastest 128 cars
 

Tom, I agree. If the idea is to get AHFS thats one thing but to desert Class racing as a goal is wrong. With Eliminator it is like a total move to Bracket racing. Only one person wins not based necessarily on performance unless there were heads up runs. They may just have luck of the draw and dial and braking.
With Class racing there are Lots of winners based on BEATING someone with driving and tuning skills. There is a winner for each where there are competitors over 2 or 3. Thats a performance eliminator..
Too much down side to this move...... another step towards Bracket racing as the only thing done at NHRA events by expensive Stock and SS cars.
It should work the opposite way. Class Winner only gets in with byes and #1 qual if not winner of a class.
Then the goal would REALLY be performance within your class with resulting reward of running Eliminator PLUS a Class Trophy YOU WON>
If too many low entry classes is their issue CONSOLIDATE to 1/4 the classes. That will fill up ALL classes

Re: NHRA Fastest 128 cars
 

Wally caring about stock class racers is a myth. Wally cared about dough - long green came first. Racers were complaining about his cheap "beehind" 30 years ago!

Dick,
Fire up your Stocker yet?

Re: NHRA Fastest 128 cars
 

Bruce/1664SSJA -- I first met Wally in 1975 and spoke with him several more times before he passed and I never once got the impression he cared even the slightest bit about money .I did however see that he loved racing much more than you guys ever will .You've got it all wrong about him..........shame on both of you even thinking Wally was all about the almighty buck.................

Re: NHRA Fastest 128 cars
 

Hey Kenny, isn't every part on your car available to anyone who wants to buy them? If someone really wanted to build a car like yours couldn't they find a body and build a GT500 just like yours? The rules apply to everybody. If it's that big of an advantage, build one. I just wish I had thought of it first. DANG!! LOL!!

Re: NHRA Fastest 128 cars
 

I f Wally did not care about lower class racers then why did he put more and more classes into NHRA racing in the 60's & even the 70's. I think he wanted as many classes as could be, BUT maybe not everyone at NHRA thought that way.As what happen to Modified....
now it's going to happen to stock soon,as they will 1st put stock into ss, why else would you be able to run heads & blocks for Mopar & Gm that are being made right now,not what came on the cars like before..
it's going to happen , less class tear down,no class trophys .not much cost to have 1 elim. and still not much of a pay-out .

Re: NHRA Fastest 128 cars
 

Wally is dead. Let's look to the future.

Re: NHRA Fastest 128 cars
 

Jack, I couldn't agree with you more, lets race. Mr Warehime you are correct, the only advantage I have is very few wish to build one.

Re: NHRA Fastest 128 cars
 

Mr. Kasch is correct! You guys who have been racing only a few years and think you know it all couldn't be farther from being right. You are giving NHRA a ticket to eliminate class racing. If you win class at an event, no matter how, you deserve to be in the show! If NHRA doesn't run class at an event they save $100 per class for the cost of the trophy. See where this is going? Sportsman, Pro and Super Pro ET.Jim

Re: NHRA Fastest 128 cars
 

Kenny, if you take all the Santa Clause stuff out of your car your point of view might change.

Re: NHRA Fastest 128 cars
 

Larry, thats because I have been good. Santa always knows who has been naughty or nice. The question is, have you been naughty or nice? I think its obvious.

Re: NHRA Fastest 128 cars
 

Jim, I seriously doubt NHRA gives $100 per class trophy. Maybe $25. The one we got wasn't even put together right.

Are we really sure it is fair to tell a guy who runs .80+ under he has to go home to let in a guy who singled for class and ran .55 under?

I'm not sure that having the fastest 128 cars in the field and not letting class winners bump in is the death knell of class racing.

Re: NHRA Fastest 128 cars
 

Kenny - Santa has always known who has been naughty .............By the way -- build a GT500 --next time you speak with Evan ask him about my Ford background .

Alan-- You're right on the money ! ! ! the faster car is way more deserving .

Jim -- $100 for the class trophy -- you've eaten way too many Gator burgers .Better lay off that stuff.

Re: NHRA Fastest 128 cars
 

Ok, but I was told by NHRA many years ago when I tried to get an additional trophy for a sponsor that NHRA paid right at $100 each for the Wally. Are you guys saying NHRA lied to me?

I don't eat gator burgers, I eat gator tail! Jim

Re: NHRA Fastest 128 cars
 

Let me get this straight,
2 cars in the class.

during qualifying
Car A has run a best of 1.0 under
Car B has run a best of .75 under

For class, Car A red-lights. Car B wins class and will probably not make the field (bump is usually .9+ under.

Re: NHRA Fastest 128 cars
 

On the flip side, and with all due respect Terry, under the previous system, let me get THIS straight:

Car A competes for the class win against 4-5 other cars, runs 12.50 or quicker, and runs more than .85 under, does NOT win class, however, does qualify as one of the 128 quickest cars.

Car B singles for class, runs 15.0 or slower, and barely runs 0.51 under the index, and does NOT qualify as one of the 128 quickest cars, but in fact is 168th out of 180 cars.

Car A is sent home with a DNQ:eek:, Car B bumps into the field as a "class winner":rolleyes:.

We went to Indy last year, and I hung my head in shame as we posted a DNQ with a weak engine. But there were cars that were over 2 tenths slower than us who got in, and guys in our class who were faster and got sent home. We didn't get in on time, I can accept that, and I bear the responsibility for that. But the guys who got in on time and then got bumped by cars 3 tenths slower got cheated I think.

Re: NHRA Fastest 128 cars
 

Whenever this argument comes up it some people like to use the slwer indexed cars as an example of the unfairness of the system.Us poor unwashed throgolites either cant afford or are unwilling to spend our retirement money to get in a pissing contest with some (not all) of the upper indexed cars.So we build the slower cars because they are maybe 1)cheaper to build and maintain 2)are less class populated 3)and fun to drive,especially when putting out some of the toterhome,stacker,filet mignon crew.Not all are but there is an element of them with more money than common sense.
I personally could care less about what NHRA does in this situation because I'll probably never attend Indy,but I think class winners shold get first preference.


Ed F,
Possibly 1.00 under in good weather
with a 30 mph tail wind.

Re: NHRA Fastest 128 cars
 

http://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCSt...r2007#indextop 2007 indy stk quilfhttp://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCStory.asp?ID=144534&Filter=Year2007#indextop 2007 indy ss quil


I'm saying 2-3 more years of stock racing as we know it for the last 30 years, is that good or bad.
It depends on how much MONEY you have, not all class bye runs were by slow cars..[fwd& r/and lower classes

Re: NHRA Fastest 128 cars
 

As usual, the "MANAGEMENT" of NHRA got it wrong. With the stroke of a pen, they eliminated a 54 year old tradition at INDY.

For you guys that have only been around long enough for a cup of coffee and a sandwich ALL eliminators used to class winners vs. class winners. You didn't race in the eliminators if you didn't win class, and as far as class goes, the NHRA "MANAGEMENT" wouldn't know what class was even if it hit them in the face.

I hope that NHRA will survive this group of "MANAGEMENT" thugs who don't give a crap about MY SPORT.

Was this brainstorm of the "MANAGEMENT" discussed with our Racer Representatives or are the Racer Reps just another layer to insulate the "MANAGEMENT" from the racers.

Since people only tend to do the things that benefit themselves, you are forced to ask the question "What's in it for the "MANAGEMENT" of NHRA"?????

How will this change benefit the racers??

Bob


My racing partner, Rich, said that this was written for the intelligent so I will dumb it down.....



PS for the dummies.............


1.....You build a car by the rules that will go as fast as possible.
2.....Go race heads up (Class Racing).
3.....Tow to INDY to see if you can compete with other cars from all over the country heads up.
4.....Earn your way into the Eliminator by winning heads-up races.
5.....Give the racers who didn't win class a second way in based on ET.
6.....Don't punish a racer for a single in class. Just because people avoided the race.
7.....Don't go to INDY if you can't win class or go fast
8.....Work on your car or change cars and then go back to INDY.
9.....Don't go to INDY if you can't win class or go fast
10....Don't change the sport for your own self interest.
11....There is only ONE INDY PER YEAR.
12....GO FAST, WIN CLASS OR DON"T GO TO INDY.
13....Get it
14....If not then build a Quick 16 car. NO CLASS JUST ET.

Re: NHRA Fastest 128 cars
 

Bob is correct. This is a new management decision, for sure .

You guys who think Wally was just in it for the money ,are mistaken.

About 10 years ago, I was told ,by a veteran racer ,who usually knew what he was talking about, was that Wally was the only thing keeping Stock intact ,as we know it. Wally was a traditionalist.

Now Wally's gone, and I'll be damned, what do you know?

Re: NHRA Fastest 128 cars
 

[QUOTE=Alan Roehrich;75250]Jim, I seriously doubt NHRA gives $100 per class trophy. Maybe $25. The one we got wasn't even put together right.

Are we really sure it is fair to tell a guy who runs .80+ under he has to go home to let in a guy who singled for class and ran .55 under?

Yes ,it is. That .55 under car just might be the the most legal, by the books, Stocker on the grounds.