DMV Crackdown
Apparently there is a law in NC no rigs over 60 ft total length unless it's a commercial vehicle with a 5th wheel connection. The DMV has started enforcing this law on I-40 in the Winston-Salem Greensboro area.
Steve Earwood is putting together a meeting. He is on the board of the North Carolina motorsports association. This meeting will include members of the association, members of state government, and members of law enforcement. The meeting is scheduled for August 26 at Richard Childress shop. They are trying to reach a compomise on thi. Earwood is asking for all racers to attend to show support. Keep in mind the way this law currently reads a typical 32 foot rv with a 28ft trailer is illegal. A dually with a 48 ft trailer is illegal. The only thing legal is a p/u and open trailer or small enclosed. Chip Johnson |
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Just one more case of the all-mighty nanny state making a big cash grab at a cost to the businesses in the state. Hard to believe the government stooges think they can generate more revenue like this then they would get from the tax monies out of staters would spend?
This does not bode well for the race at Bruton's new digs in September! |
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Hey Chip,
My Dad and brother got a letter about this from Steve Earwood. They have a 38 ft. motorhome and a 28 foot stacker trailer; so they are illegal. Can you give us some more information? The meeting is on a Tuesday, and they won't be able to go. Will they have to get CDLs, permits, etc.? What is the fine? When was the law passed? I think Lambert and I are ok. We have a 28 ft. motorhome and 28 ft. trailer, and Lambert has CDL because he works for the Polk Co. School Bus Garage. |
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THe problem is there is one DMV officer in Winston Salem that is playing RAMBO on this. Its so bad that the racers call DMV and see if he is working before they go racing. I have racers from Winston with motorhomes that come to my place a day early. THis meeting Steve is doing is in conjuction with the NC Motorsports Association. Racers we need to join this. More details will be available in the next few days.
Herb Jr |
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I wonder if you have out of state plates if they will bother you. Our motorhome and trailer is registered in Montana.
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If he's a Rambo type that will probably really set him off!
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Tracey I've notice other motorhomes registered there to, what benefits does it have?
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No sales tax. When we purchased our motorhome and trailer we saved $5000 in sales tax. You have to open a LLC. The trailer is perm. It cost us about $150 per year to keep up on everything.
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I almost just did exactly this, even have an LLC in Montana. After reading law word for word, decided against it because I could not prove the RV is housed out of state 6 months out of the year. IE gas receipts, a leased storage place etc. In Florida, you can bring an RV into state 6 months after you move into the state without paying tax, AS LONG AS IT WASN'T BOUGHT IN FLORIDA. I'd bet that law applies to just abot every state. |
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It used to be after 12 months in NJ. When we moved to NC I had to pay tax when I registered my cars. I already paid tax on them when they were bought in NJ so I was being taxed twice. Pretty soon everyone will be required to get a CDL.
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Maybe someone could get Steve to call me. Maybe a model after the Florida over length law. $15 yearly, up to 95 ft, available over the net. Might be a good compromise. Florida is up to 65' I think. NC seems to have a habit of doing these sort of things. Last time I had an issue for a racer, I got lots of response from the NC Dept of Tourism. They seem to understand the big picture.
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Stacie,
Tell Lambert to be careful with his CDL. State workers in NC have CDL that is only good when driving NC state owned vehicles. Chip |
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Office 888-876-1817 or cell 985-804-6161
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Has anybody have any updated information on this issue????????????
I just got off the phone with the NC Permit department and the Hightway road enforcement. Both confirmed at this time it is 60 foot with a ball type hitch. Tickets are $130 and you must leave the state or you could get ticketed again. This is what Sgt. Rigsbee told me. He said they are trying to work on this project and have been in touch with Florida DOT to find out how they have handled the overlength trucks. This is an important thread to keep up on top. Charlotte is just next month and we need to be prepaired. |
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I spoke to Steve this morning and sent him all the info I had including my Florida permit which is $20 per year and available over the net. Steve has already been in touch with NC Tourism who seem to grasp the situation more than NC DOT. I would suggest filing a complaint with NC Tourism. They seem to respect the yankee and confederate dollar. I think Steve heads the NC Motorsports Association and this will probably need some help in the NC Legislature. Of course, there is always the Gov.
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I just sent an email to the governor of NC protesting the action, and an email to Graham Light asking NHRA to get the Bruton Smith people to help. I would encourage all the racers to complain to NC also. Can you imagine all the sportsman on the side of the road on the way to the first Charlotte race?
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Too bad this situation does not effect the NASCAR guys, then
you would really hear some screaming and the DMV and the chamber of commerce people bending over backwards to help solve this problem. But I would guess most or all of their rigs are the normal over the road big rigs, not Motorhomes/toterhomes with tag trailers. |
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Lou |
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I am going to contact the Family Motor Coach Assoc. and see what there take is on this. Most Motor Homes flat towing a car would be affected by this. The more groups that get envolved the better chance of something happening
Lou |
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It does affect a lot of nascar teams. They have show cars-testing cars- Some of the smaller Arca and truck teams don't have 18 wheelers either. Not to mention all the Saturday night late model teams,Legend Cars, and Lucas Oil Dirt cars many owned by some of the big guns such as Stewart and Earnhardt.
In a e-mail from Steve yesterday any RV with a trailer behind is illegal. Go to brackettalk.com interesting reading there about the same thing. Chip |
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Lets just assume for one minute that we have to get a commercial drivers license to operate our trucks or motorhomes towing a trailer.
I live in West Virginia, and to get a CDL, one has to take a written test and also a road exam. I assume other states do this in much the same manner. Say I pass the written exam and then schedule my road exam. When I show up in my 2500 Dodge Ram, they will ask me " what vehicle am I going to take the test in?" When I tell them my Dodge, they will all get a good laugh because it is not a commercial vehicle. It doesn't matter if it is a 250, 350, dually, etc. It is still not a commercial vehicle-no matter whether it has a trailer hooked to it or not. They will tell you to come back with a Kenworth, or a large Dump Truck, or somthing along those lines. |
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We have the same problem in Nebraska, Kansas, Iowa and South Dakota. They don't like motor homes pulling trailers that are over 65 feet long. I know of two late model dirt track guys that got tickets, one in Iowa and one in South Dakota. I got a ticket earlier this year in Nebraska on the way to Great Bend KS for the divisional. That cost me $290.00. The officer told us that we needed to contact the racing organizations to see if they would get something passed in the legislatures to help with the problem. When I talked to the late model guys, I said they should get ahold of NASCAR and see if they could help out. They didn't think NASCAR would help. Has anyone approached NHRA to see if they can help us out?
I have a CDL but the problem is that my motor home and trailer would have to be registered as a truck tractor and pro-rated to run in all the states. It would then mean that no one would be able to assist in the driving unless they also had a CDL. I would have to pull through scales, have a log book, physical card and have an IFTA sticker for fuel. I'm not in this as a business, this is recreational. |
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All you retired guys like me that take meds like blood pressure and so on can forget about a CDL physical, I had to turn mine in. The list of meds is long.
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<Say I pass the written exam and then schedule my road exam. When I show up in my 2500 Dodge Ram, they will ask me " what vehicle am I going to take the test in?" When I tell them my Dodge, they will all get a good laugh because it is not a commercial vehicle. It doesn't matter if it is a 250, 350, dually, etc. It is still not a commercial vehicle-no matter whether it has a trailer hooked to it or not. They will tell you to come back with a Kenworth, or a large Dump Truck, or somthing along those lines>
I don't know about other states, but here in California, trucks over say a F150 have commercial plates on them. My F350 diesel is a '04 so it's already 4 yrs old and the tags are still over $400 per year. I could convert to car tags if I was willing to put a camper shell on the truck and NEVER take it off, that would cut the price of tags in half, but then you loose the use of the bed for hauling. |
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quick question --when they talk about overall length are they measuring from bumper to bumper OR are they measuring the length of the motorhome and the enclosed (box) portion of the trailer LESS the drawbar length to arrive at the total length??? When you buy a trailer the 24 or 32 or whatever foot measurement applies to the enclosed portion or bed of the trailler NOT the actual overall length---From the very tip of the drawbar to the absolute furthest point rearward on the trailer---How are they doing it?? Comp387
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I mentioned some of this stuff to my superior, which sparked his interest due to where I work. He had a contact - Luetienent (sp?) with the Highway Patrol - this guy is over our general area, about 8 counties, including Guilford. Interestingly enough, the guy mentioned he had just gotten off the phone with a legislator regarding this stuff. He also said they were having more crack downs in the Farmington area.
According to him, which contradicts what is being posted on here and what everyone is being told, you're ok if your rig is over 60 feet if you are on a STAA approved road. http://www.ncdot.org/doh/preconstruc...ic/safety/TSI/ Here is a link to STAA approved routes - http://www.ncdot.org/it/img/DataDist...statewideMaps/ Basically anything interstate - such as I-85 and I-40 are approved. However, routes from those to the track probably aren't - such as Route 801 going to Farmington. Is this where they are busting people, on the small roads? Or are they busting people on the interstate? He also said you could tow something behind a motorhome as long as it wasn't over 60 feet on a non STAA approved route. He acted like more of the problem is with people not having CDLs. Anything over 10,000 pounds being towed for commercial use - commercial meaning generates income, which includes drag racing - requires CDL - also, if I wasn't mistaking, if you're towing with a 5th wheel you need a CDL according to what that guy says, but I suppose since most 5th wheel trailers are 3 axel they probably are over 10,000 pounds loaded anyway? It was all very confusing and again, contradicting what other are being told. As for State Employees CDL only being for State Vehicles, me and my superior did not know that to be true. I know for sure a State Employees CDL license doesn't say "for state vehicle use only". However, most NCDOT employees who are Transportation Workers have a CDL with an endorsement only allowing them to drive a dump truck or like vehicle with a regular tag trailer, such as one for a backhoe. Their CDL endorsement says "No Semi Trailer" - Semi Trailer meaning 5th wheel connection. The reason this is the only endorsement most have is because that is all their job requires them to have which is all the state will reimburse the employee for. There are some TW's who have the endorsement to tow Semi Trailer, such as a low boy, if there job requires them to do so. The State Worker can get additional endorsements if they want, the State just isn't going to pay for it if its not needed for their job. One thing though worth mentioning, which may be where this is coming from, is the State Employees aren't required to have a medical card or the phyicals every so often. So if you're a State Employee and use your CDL for non state related things you probably should go on your own and get the required physicals to have the CDL and have that card. Meaning if you get stopped in a State Vehicle without a medical card your ok but in a personal vehicle your not. Also, state TW don't have to keep log books but out in the "real world" you would need to. So in general a State Employee with a CDL while on the job isn't required to have all the paperwork your average Joe has, but once their an average joe using their CDL they'd have to have the paperwork. Again, to the best of my knowledge and my supervisors - obviously things aren't so black and white so we may be wrong too. Honestly I didn't get all the answers to my questions - simply put, us taking our dually with a trailer racing shouldn't require us to file out log books, take medical exams, have to stop at weigh stations, etc. I've also heard but not confirmed that it makes you auto insurance go up? (anyone know??) I'm sure there is more to it than just that as well. Here is a link to the DMV page for CDL requirements http://www.ncdot.org/dmv/driver_serv...uirements.html You can download the CDL handbook here http://www.ncdot.org/dmv/driver_serv...g/cdlhandbook/ If nothing more, I hope this meeting doesn't just focus on the length issue, but get clearer rules for us and our CDL needs. |
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One more thing, for those who are posting but not in NC - here if your towing with a pick up truck you have to have a weighted commercial tag that covers the weight of your truck and trailer - ours is for 18,000 pounds and its several hundred dollars a year - $217 or $317 - can't remember exactly. However, if your towing with a motorhome you can have a recreational vehicle plate which is only $28 or so a year. Thats kind of been a beef with Scott, shouldn't the motorhome have to have a weighted plate too? However, apparently some are being told they can't tow with a motorhome at all, so maybe that has something to do with it as well - the plate on the motorhome isn't weighted?
Another issue I have with that is its implying our truck is "Commerical" - the plate says so. But if we're not towing over 10,000 pounds we're not required to have a CDL. But then go back to what the trooper said, going drag racing is consider Commercial Use since we're generating income. So in that case should we have a CDL regardless if our trailer is over 10,000 pounds or not? Again, VERY CONFUSING. |
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I think the area we all need to be concerned with is the initial overall length and/or the type of registration/license plates on the vehicle--This gives the cops a legal loophole or "probable cause" to make the initial traffic stop--From there they then go on to registration-insurance-driver licensing--overall length--safety violations etc--They just need a valid excuse to make the initial traffic stop--they can then go berserk with the ticket book---Any cops on here that can shed some light on this subject??? comp 387
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This is from the Federal Motor Carrier Safety Regulations reguarding CDL'S & racing concerning exemption 390.3(f)(3)
Does the exemption in 390.3(f)(3) for the occasional transportation of personal property by individuals not for compensation nor in the furtherance of a commerical enterprise apply to persons who occasionally use CMV to transport cars, boats, horses, etc to races, tournaments, shows or similar events, even if prize money is offered at these events? Guidence The exemption would apply to this kind of transporation, provided: (1) The underlining activities are not undertaken for profit,ie(a) prize money is declare as ordinary income for tax purposes, and (b) the cost of the underlying activities is not deducted as a bussiness expense for tax purposes, and, where relevant(2) corporate sponsership is not involved. Drivers must confer with their State of licensure to determine the licensing provisions to which they are subject. In short, claim any thing you get a 1099 for & don't carry a copy of your tax return to show the officer. AS Drag Racers we do a sport where 75% of us loose by 2ed rd. & don'tget a dime. I carry the Federal Motor Carrier book in the motor home in case I am stopped. I have this passage marked. Have not had a problem in 10 yrs. |
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I'm all for obeying the law. However, vague laws are vague for a reason. The reason is money. Has nothing to do with saftey. I see gross saftey violations everytime I drive. As with alot of issues the true spirit of the law (saftey) is sometimes cloulded by the letter of the law in order to generate revenue. If you are after saftey, then start with the companies that make trailering tires that blow every 5k miles. Trailer manufacturers that will sell a product with the knowledge that the product is too light duty for the purpose intended. The loads heading to the swap meet that are secured in an unsafe manner. The saftey chains that wouldn't keep my dog from breaking them. The customers that seek out these products because they are cheaper. The junk steel balls at the discount store.........etc. That would be too much WORK. Its easier to see the big rig racing outfit that is figured they have some expendable income so they are much easier game. One again, racers need to stick together on this one.........but we know from past experience that this won't happen. My thanks to all that have called or written the depts. of tourism and attended meetings on this subject.
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Dottie--Thank you that's the way I interpreted it--Comp 387
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I talked with Howard at HGR trailers(the owner) today. I've bought 5 trailers from him. He said he has been talking with the #2 man in the state on this. The problem is this guy don't even know what an enclosed trailer is.
What they want is either change the length to 75 feet or get permits. Thats good for the RV people but the GN people are still screwed, any trailer GVW over 10,000 you're going to have to go the CDL route. Somthing very interesting, I think someone else posted this earlier, How can I get CDL's with a Dually and a GN trailer. YOU CAN'T. I have CDL's so it won't be much of an issue for me. I just want them to tell me what to do! Steve and Howard both are requesting eveyone show for the meeting. It is at 10:00 a.m. August 26th at Childress shop. Chip |
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Where does a GN with living quarters fall in this group? Total length is about 50', truck and trailer.
mark |
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Mark I don't think the length will get you as much as the weight.
Chip |
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This is great to have something else to worry with. I think I'm good right now as I'm 57' but wanting to trade up to a larger motorhome and a little bigger Featherlite. Will have to see how this goes before I make a move. Seems there is something out there to nip at a racer at every turn. Hope this doesn't spread to other states. Right now the NMCA doesn't race in NC.
JIm Netherland |
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Yes saftey is, or should be, the greatest concern here. Its not. If a PUBLIC SERVANT, ie: DMV,DOT,state, local or sheriffs dept enployee wanted to find saftey violations they aren't hard to find, overweight tailers, too small a tow vehicle rating, ladders not secured on trucks, crap in the back blowing out of pickups etc, etc. I could write up all the tickets in the ticket book each and every day. I agree that alot of areas are overlooked by racers. I see it at every race I attend. Write the laws in plain English, get rid of the "grey areas" (kinda sounds like a rule book) and inforce the law. No problem with that. CDL really dosen't mean anything. I have one, had it for years. Dosen't apply to my tow vehicle in the least. When I tried to get DOT #'s, as I was pulled over and told that I had to do, the head of the DOT (in my state) told me that if every truck/trailer over a certain length and weight was pulling into weigh stations that the interstates would be closed down due to congestion at the scale houses. This BS comes around every so often when someone is put in a job and told his performance is based on revenue.
It wouldn't hurt my feelings in the least that all states require inspections of tow vehicles/trailers before you can get a plate for the trailer. And have the vehicle and trailer somehow registered together. Problem is, you couldn't find the people that knew enough about the laws that they were supposed to be enforcing to do the inspections. That would require paying more salaries instead of collecting more revenue. |
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