Wes Libby
 

Please be careful in qualifying, Good Luck, and hope you win the race.

Re: Wes Libby
 

Larry-

Wes just pulled out of our driveway a couple hours ago, heading to Sonoma. He wanted me to let you know, that he will have a good time in Sonoma. As for the concern on qualifying, he is aware of how much he is going to have to hang it out, to be No. 1. He did promise he'll keep it under 1.4 under the index.

Re: Wes Libby
 

I hope that 1.4 is a typo. 1.149 sure looks good to me.

Re: Wes Libby
 

Larry are you & Patsy coming to Columbus? Marissa wanted to know as she just went to a wine festival last weekend & picked up some GOOD wine she would like to "sample" with Patsy Sat. night. hope to see ya their :)

Re: Wes Libby
 

Greg,
We are not going to make it to Columbus. Larry is working trying to get the Cuda back up and running. We hope to have it ready by Bowling Green. The wine tasting sounds great though. Are ya'll coming to Bowling Green or Indy?
Patsy

Re: Wes Libby
 

We are planning on coming to BG so Marissa said she'd have a "good bottle" with her ;)

Re: Wes Libby
 

Looks like you could have run 1.4 under. Thank you for not doing that, now go win the race.

Re: Wes Libby
 

Hey Travis Miller, is there any truth to the comment about Wes Libby bypassing the scales and not getting DQed for the event while being watched by officals? If it is true, that shows for sure that there using the west coast rule book because the other 6 divisions dont get to race in Disney Land. Let me know ok?
Thanks,
Bill Hawk

Re: Wes Libby
 

How do you skip the scales at Sonoma, when you weigh before you fuel check?

Re: Wes Libby
 

Gotta love the no name bashers.

Re: Wes Libby
 

This is indeed a disturbing allegation. I've raced against Wes for a long time and he's always been an respected individual in my book, however the report is either true or not true, names of posters notwithstanding. The rules regarding such a maneuver are very clear and accomplishing it at Sonoma without being seen by a lot of people would be difficult. I'd like to hear what Wes has to say, what NHRA tech personnel could add, or what light other racers who might have seen some anomaly in the process could shed on the accusation.

c

Re: Wes Libby
 

Hey Hawk, is that West Coast rule book you talk about like the Carroll Shelby rule book you and Velde used to build those Mustangs?

Re: Wes Libby
 

I cannot pass this one up. I do not know happened at Sonoma but the Shelby's are here to stay. If I had the money I would build one or a 64 T-Bolt.

Re: Wes Libby
 

I agree with Chuck on this one. Everything I have ever known of Wes is that he is a straight up guy no Bull****. So to make a claim like this is pretty bold. I was not at the event but I spoke to my father and many others and nobody I talked to saw anything. I have raced at Sonoma several times and it would be next to impossible to bypass the scale and come back, reweigh and not get pinched by Danny g. and the boys.

Re: Wes Libby
 

Damn you cant even get by with that in IHRA, does anyone know where i can get a copy of the "west coast" rule book..i would love to see it...i want to go race in disney land with those guys..can make a vacation out of it with wife and kids also...

Re: Wes Libby
 

Just another "No Name" making accusations. If Chuck Norton says he is a respected individual, I am sure he is. No one actually saw anything, just someone says on the internet without using their real name and reputations get hurt. Just another rumor.

Re: Wes Libby
 

Larry, since I posted the original message I've had several private contacts by people who were there. None of them is anxious to become the "whistle blower" in this situation so I'm guessing that what is done is done. I'm 350 miles away, having a hard time understanding the scenario and just asking questions.
This is an occasion in which it should not be the responsibility of the racers to enforce the rules or "tattle" on anyone else. This isn't Kindergarten.

If the report was anywhere close to being accurate, this would not have been a maneuver easily accomplished in a stealthy manner. All of us across the entire spectrum of Stock and Super Stock racing have a serious stake in the rules including the AHFS and NHRA's enforcement of its provisions. If it's allowed to happen even once, the whole system can be questioned.

As I said yesterday, I've known and respected Wes for a long time and it's not up to me to do more than to seek clarification.

c

Re: Wes Libby
 

Larry and Chuck, dont get me wrong i was not bad mouthing Wes LIbby as i dont know him, im sure hes a respectable indivual and a good racer. I was just asking if this really happened, and if so wondering how it could be allowed to happen.

Re: Wes Libby
 

Bill,

That's my question exactly!

c

Re: Wes Libby
 

First off I think Wes is a real Stand Up guy. But just to put a spin on this let me tell you what Jonathan Adams told me when I squawked about not getting weighed at Division 6 National Opens; “If anyone cheats on weight, if they go 1.4 under they will get horsepower” So not to go off topic but I think most people would agree we should not get horsepower unless we weigh, fuel check AND tear down and everyone feels that is only fair to protect the interests of other people running the same combo. But Jonathans comments were more towards a self policing situation, no matter what the reason for running fast your combo will be penalized, it’s your own responsibility to make sure you are legal in all ways before the run.
So, if this really happened would there have been a huge stink over it and some horsepower thrown at the 440? Or would the qualifying run just be tossed? Both?

Re: Wes Libby
 

Can`t you still set NHRA National records at an Open? How the hell would that be considered "proper" without weight, fuel check and a tear down??:eek:

Re: Wes Libby
 

Rory,

Good question, you were there this weekend how many NHRA guys did you count?
Maybe 3? Maybe the rest of the crew was in Sonoma. I think they expect advanced warning of any record attempts at the National Opens,

Re: Wes Libby
 

Hey Bill PLEASE be careful throwing more HP @ the 440 because the B-body can't take another hit, we are now @ 417 and wes's combo E-body is still @ 405 so a little bit wouldn't hurt his package as it would totally factor out the BIG MOPES !!!

Re: Wes Libby
 

Bill, in response to your question about what difference the run would have made, to the best of my understanding of the AHFS, nothing would have resulted directly from a run of -1.19. It would simply have been the first trigger run toward a review of that combination next winter, after the end of the season. Perhaps someone with a clearer vision of the system would be able to put the possibilities in perspective.

Risking disqualification and/or other sanctions in an effort to avoid setting the first trigger for a possible review would seem to be a bold move.

Frank, your concern is certainly a valid one. Carrying 12 additional horsepower in a bigger, longer car is certainly a big load. Funny how the system seems to work that way.

There would appear to be many unclear issues at play in this situation.

Re: Wes Libby
 

Frank.. put a Hemi in it...or 440-4 or even a 383..or a stick..what the hell..even SS/GA start to look good dont it?Atleast you have some choises..think about those that have whole combinations "destroyed"! AHFS sucks BIG WAY...the way it works now!

Re: Wes Libby
 

This is a curious episode.

A few years ago I absent-mindedly attempted to pass the scales after winning a round at the Gators. I'll never forget Bruce semi-trotting from the scales area. He was waving his finger and shaking his head at me. I quickly hit the brakes and backed up and then pulled onto the scales. Bruce was kind with his words but I knew it could never happen again or I was going home. Now, I'm looking for the scales!

Re: Wes Libby
 

CAN'T find the bag, the one with the money in it for that new combo, and as far as the hemi combination goes, I haven't seen it yet but I understand that HENSEN has put together a GTX which will be INTERESTING-[understatement].Looking at E-body still looks like the better choice.

Re: Wes Libby
 

FRANK , did someone leave you holding the empty bag ?????? lol

Re: Wes Libby
 

Hey Paul someone told me that you got the bag and I really need it back!!!! How you been Paul hope that all is well, Another thing don't forget you still owe me that toll MONEY !!!LOL , you know I haven't raced the blue beast in year and 1/2 finally get-er done and get SPANKED by AHFS with 6 big ones, thought that maybe the 396 was gonna get and left us alone so that maybe we would have a chance to catch up, BUT THAT DIDN't HAPPEN!

Re: Wes Libby
 

Frank , You will not get any sympathy from me. I have got 23 h.p. since they started holding court. All it does is cost you more money.

Re: Wes Libby
 

Just found out that the HEMI-GTX of Hensen has been sold and should be at INDY with it's new owner which should be interesting -[understatement]. Looking at E-body still looks like the better choice.

Re: Wes Libby
 

Okay, this thread keeps on hanging in there and now I'm a little curious about the rule in question.

I'm not saying any one has broken any rules and I'm certainly not thinking about palying any weight games.

But, where does an infraction like this belong in the grand scheme of Stock/Super Stock racing? Is it enough to get thrown out for a year or just bounced from a race? Or a serious lecture from Bruce?

Re: Wes Libby
 

Bruce, I seem to recall that someone, at some event was pitched for that event for intentionally by-passing the scale or fuel check. It seems that some unfortunate souls have even been summarily tossed out for not weighing following a catastrophic mechanical failure that resulted in being towed off the track. Talk about a double disappointment!

Of course, even the professionals are not exempt from the requirement to weigh unless specifically directed to drive by weight or fuel check. Tony Shumacher was DQ'd at Las Vegas during eliminations for just that reason.

A simple ejection from the event is one thing but there is also the question of what happens to a run that qualifies as a trigger for the AHFS? Should it be counted as a trigger automatically after procedures are violated? Is it grounds for an automatic horsepower penalty to attempt an end run to void an otherwise legitimate trigger? Is that fair to other competitors with the same combination? Should racers be policing other racers?

One thing seems certain. There needs to be adequate supervision of the scale/fuel check area to prevent uncertainties from arising.

Re: Wes Libby
 

Chuck,

Thank you for posting the best explanation that I have read on this issue.

Re: Wes Libby
 

there needs to be a consistent enforcement of the rules, and for the most part I think there is, but...

and let me preface this with a big, fat I REALLY DON'T CARE...I DON'T KNOW THE GUY...I WORRY ABOUT MYSELF AND RECOMMEND OTHERS DO THE SAME...

I'm just reporting a simple statement of fact. Kelly Thomas was in the other lane when I made my first time trial in stock eliminator at the Sonoma divisional. We got to the end of the track, and while everyone else went to the left for fuel check and scales, he hung a right and did not. Period. End of story. He was DQ'd from the run, not the event. That's not the way I read the rulebook.

I'm sure there is some logical reason for his actions, and I would like to think we would all be shown the same consideration and discretion by those in charge should a similar situation arise in the future.

Could I spin this in anymore of a politically correct fashion?

Re: Wes Libby
 

Yo Firecracker, You DO know someone that can provide you with the Elephant castings you need!
But he'd probably want you to put a schitk in it!
Sg

Re: Wes Libby
 

Hey Greg how da **-k r u, I have no or less experience with an elephant than with a 6-pak! But it is food for thought. I guess if I can get that bag o money bak from Dilcher I'll give it a shot, you are the 3rd person to entertain the elephant !!! So we'd be dancing in A, either way E-BODY OR A has to be better than where I'm at now.

Re: Wes Libby
 

It sounds like the guys working the scales were asleep at the switch for at least two guys to get by them without serious consequences.

In Division 1 the runs would have been put on the sheet. National event or Division race the D1 guys are all over the fuel check and scales.

Re: Wes Libby
 

I can only speak for the episode I was party to...

The officials DID catch it. I hadn't even gotten to the scales when one D7 person approached me and asked me for the number of the guy I raced that they observed go the other way off the track..NOT the way one would proceed to fuel check and scales...

His run was DQ'd. I do not know if there was any further admonishmont.

Re: Wes Libby
 

Dan,

I'm glad you added the additional info about being approached for information about the racer who bypassed the scales.

In your earlier post you mentioned that being disqualified for passing the scales may not be the same punishment that is required by the nhra rules. What is the rule for bypassing the scales? I have never seen it.