Combine?????
 

Why not combine the sticks and the automatics in stock and superstock?.
Like they have already done in the FWD classes. Just give the autos a weight break.
Seems to work for me.
This would nearly cut the classes in half, A lot less singles.Everyone should be happy then. RIGHT?

Go Dick Butler.

GET TO WORK ON IN COMMITEE MEMBERS

Re: Combine?????
 

I dont think that will work because in the HP classes, SS/A-G, the autos are a whole lot faster, but in the lower HP classes the stick shift cars are alot faster, I dont think this will ever work!!!


Stephen Johnson #2162
Horace Johnson #2167
SS/D 427 Ford Fairlane NHRA-IHRA

Re: Combine?????
 

Might as well combine them. The AHFS factors sticks and autos differently anyway.

Re: Combine?????
 

Leave them alone, not only are the HP different but also the index's.

Re: Combine?????
 

Make each class a heads up run against the current index.

A/S 11.25 vs A/SA 11.30. Just give the Automatic .05 head start at the tree and then run to the stripe.

or run all class eliminations on a .500 pro tree and let the driver have more involvement in the runs.
You can make up a tenth on a pro tree, but not on a sportsman tree.

Re: Combine?????
 

I'm all for combining them, but not a weight disadvantage to the stick cars. With todays automatic transmissions there is not much of a difference anyway. With a Pro trans and radials the automatics are sometimes faster than the sticks, not to mention can usually get a better hold on the track and they get to leave off a button...

Re: Combine?????
 

This seems like a good idea when you first think about it. But then reality settles in and all of the problems with this idea begin to pop up. nhra and ihra have kept the two separate because they know what a nightmare looks like and they are smart enough to stay away from it.

Re: Combine?????
 

This subject seems to come up every year about this time. Combining the sticks and autos would create a paper reduction of 50%. But, in reality (race day) it would be far less. There are currently entries in 10 stick classes at Indy or 22% of combined stick and auto classes (A-W). But, 9 of the 10 entries are in the 1/2 pound classes. That same percentage could be achieved by eliminating the 1/2 pound breaks(except for AA/S) in favor of 1 pound breaks (8-24 pounds). And, not have all the problems associated with trying to combine the Sticks and Autos.

Re: Combine?????
 

Think back at your old street racing days. There may have been some discussion on who got the half-car length lead because one had a big block and the other guy had a small block. Maybe other factors came into play. But I don't remember ever hearing about a head start being given because he had a slush box!
Detroit placed certain engines in certain cars and usually allowed both a stick or a/t trans. Let 'em race that way!
No agenda here, I'm a slug in SS/H compared to the ultra-competitive SS/HA crowd. I'm all for more heads up races even if I'm the looser. Better for the sport in my opinion.

Re: Combine?????
 

This subject has come up before. I think NHRA is looking closely at SS/AH where this exists. Heads up at different weights. Seems to be pretty close there.

Re: Combine?????
 

"BETTER FOR THE SPORT" How many people commenting on these threads can honestly claim they are discussing with this in mind?
If you use the words "dont put MY car in that class" Or dont make "me " do anything you are missing the point of the discussions. Improving the SPORT IS THE TOPIC. Dont let Class racing be taken away from you. Dont let the people who ONLY want to Bracket race at an NHRA event minimize your hard work and expenses because tomorrow could be worse.Maybe no heads up in Eliminator. Maybe just ONLY bracket cars and Bracket racing to save money on Tech or time at events or space or prize money. Maybe More and more loosening of rules for less tech pressure.
Work to keep the value of Class cars and Class racing while you can have input....if you can agree it can be" BETTER FOR THE SPORT."

Re: Combine?????
 

I wouldn't have a problem with full-pound weight breaks.

In regards to Sticks vs Autos, the devil is in the details, although I think it's worth noting that if the class index is the same or within .05, that you should be able to combine the classes with a slight weight break one way or the other, depending on which class index is higher or lower.

As Billy pointed out, the cars are factored separately. If the cars have the same index (see caveat above), there's no reason why they the cars shouldn't run together. If the parity isn't there, then theoretically, the combinations are not factored properly.

$.02,

Re: Combine?????
 

Just a short history lesson.....IHRA made the stock and S/S classes all 1 lb. breaks back in the mid to late seventies era fpr one season and the racers cried so much (hummmm, sounds familiar) about either not being able to get lite enough or they moaned about thier cars having to carry to much weight. They couldnt make anyone happy 30 years ago so whats new? Back then the trans technology wasnt what it is today so that was never concidered.

Re: Combine?????
 

Terry, that was the 70s. In 1978, NHRA said you could add or subtract 75 pounds to fit the class. Then in 1981, NHRA said "shippng weight may be adjusted - 75 lbs or plus 150 lbs". In 1989, NHRA said "Weight may be adjusted +/- 150 lbs to fit natural class or down one class". But, now with NHRA allowing any amount of weight to be added or subtracted, racers often talk about how much weight they are carrying (300- 500 pounds in some cases) or how much they took out for a heads up run.

Re: Combine?????
 

With all the talk of adding classes(Sport Compact) and changing the length of the tracks.....

I thought this thread would be about......

NHRA's new Stock Class Combines!!!

Sorry, couldn't resist being from the heartland and all. He He he.

Re: Combine?????
 

What is the shipping weight of a New Holland?

What is it's Horsepower rating?

Would that be considered front wheel drive?

I need sleep...

Re: Combine?????
 

As Billy Nees and Michael Beard stated, the hp factors should help even it out if combined. Might take a while for some combos, but if guys are having to run flat out to win rounds I would not think it would take all that long to find out how fast they can run and level the field. It would sure make better racing, and be much more interesting to watch. For the non-bracket-lovers much more interesting to race.

I know I'm not all that fast, (I'm still working on that) but I would rather get flat out run than have to go home because I ran too fast, like 1st round at Memphis.

Again, I'm only talking about Super Stock, so Stock guys please don't jump on me. I'm old.

Re: Combine?????
 

Dick I might ask you the same question. How many times must you be told, most combs involved in Stock today do not fit into your elite "heads up" agenda? Now I have no problem with doing it in ADDITION to the normal Stock/Super Stock eliminator. However, to just come out and eliminate the combos that don't fit your idea of racing is just flat wrong! How dare you say I or anyone else can not say "don't eliminate my car from racing " that is also just as wrong! I have already complimented you and Dave on getting these classes recognized, but the huge majority of combos running today can not and will not fit into your elite group and I for one resent the fact you do not care about THEM, the majority. So I believe I am looking out for the betterment of the sport. Jim

Re: Combine?????
 

Heres an idea, how about leaving Stock alone for a few years, instead of constantly allowing new aftermarket parts that just drive up costs. I just looked at the indexs in National Dragster, I see 51 classes in Stock, 85 classes in S/S, and a whopping 96 classes in Comp. Here in Div.6 at least Stock always has considerably more entrys than S/S, and WAAAY more than Comp, yet there always seems to be people clamoring to reduce the number of classes in Stock, even though Comp has almost twice as many classes, and normally draws less than 1/2 the number of cars at a race! By the way, both S/S as well as Comp have seperate classes for sticks vs auto`s, so why shouldn`t Stock? I started building my Stocker about 8 years ago, and since then all the new accepted stuff is getting silly. Aluminum AFTERMARKET Edelbrock heads and carbs, wheelie bars, "race only" lightweight disc brakes front and rear, $800. lifters, not to mention all the stuff that is allowed that NEVER was produced on so called "factory" cars; I mean a Pinto steering rack on a late model Firebird!! Give me a break!! I know things never seem to go back once changes are implemented, but I wish things were more like they were about 15 years ago.

Re: Combine?????
 

Very good post Rory! The first thing that should have been done was to take the "Comp & Modified" cars out of Super Stock. They are already in Comp Eliminator and have no reason to be in both. If you want to reduce classes? Start there. Jim

Re: Combine?????
 

"Put the Mod cars in Comp" Thanks Jim for beginning to recognize the post was not about your FWD car. Now I hope you will recognize part of the 128 car field deal is in response to the low cars count in classes where popularity numbers in the COUNTRY is low making Class at a Nationals almost always a bye or not run at all. Maybe the thought should be how to allow those guys a method of running in a populated class too so the 128 car deal or the Bye run winner deal wont keep them on the side lines on Sunday. Then when the Class winners are all accepted in Elim as a prize for being Class winner, the other people cannot complain about being excluded because of a bye run class. Remember EVEN if there were only 50 classes to run there could still be 128 spots.Everyone could still get in if qualifying higher but losing class. Thanks

Re: Combine?????
 

I posted this sarcasticly. And all you guys have jumped on the bandwagon.
For Christs sake. Leave the eliminators alone. Stop blaming nhra for all our "enhansments". As you can see here. "WE" are probably responsible for most of them. A sarcastic post gets to be a snowball rolling down hill.
Lets see. The for next post I should suggest "to run methanol instead of gas" because of the gas crisis.
I'm sure some of you would jump on that bandwagon too.
GIVE IT A BREAK LEAVE IT ALONE.

Re: Combine?????
 

Hey, can I have my own sarcastic suggestion? The NHRA should buy a Stocker and Super Stocker in every class and cart them along to all the national events that run class. That way if a racer shows up and is the only car in his own class, have a random tech guy jump in and give him some competition not just a single. If the racer wins, he's in. If they lose the heads-up then they either have to be quick enough to qualify or just go home.

I think they did something like that on Pinks when a competitor was a no-show.

Re: Combine?????
 

Hey Mikey;
That suggestion is alot better that alot of the bull**** that's been flowing on this and a few other posts lately.It's all a bunch of crap for us as we'll never be going to the big go anyway.

Ed

Re: Combine?????
 

C'mon Ed, as some chick working at the souvenir trailer said to me: "You gotta do Indy at least once".