S/SS - Lower the index -0.50 & run Pro ladder
 

It is time to get back to the roots of drag racing, make your car run as fast as you can, be on top of your game, first one to the finish line, flat out.

A lot of time, hard work, yes-money, make Stock & Super Stock what it should be....lower all the indexes -0.50 and run a Pro ladder....get back to real racing the way it should be.

It takes long hours, hard work and yes, MONEY to go fast, so to all the naysayers... have heard it all, the little guy, the money issue, all of the crap..bottom line, drag racing is not for everyone, Stock & Super Stock are now at a level that requires a change.

Re: S/SS - Lower the index -0.50 & run Pro ladder
 

stock and super stock classes were never intended to be for every one! over the last 15 to 20 years it evolved into a free for all,a stomping ground for everyones personal agendas it is not who you know it is who you b$#@! i built a modified car to not have to put up with all the bull crap teardown nonsense,run and non original engine with real race engine severe duty parts, to have an advantage with a relativly soft class but still run s/s,well the index got .2 knocked off the last few years car is still 1.00 under and i enjoy it when i can get out. i would love to see at least .3 knocked off the indexes and the auto and sticks combined. if you dont have the money or time to be competitive in s/ss go bracket racing on the weekends.

Re: S/SS - Lower the index -0.50 & run Pro ladder
 

No need to spend more money, lets forget about same old tired agenda

Re: S/SS - Lower the index -0.50 & run Pro ladder
 

Here we go again.The only ones left would be the Daddy Warbucks guys.Small fields,no money coming in to NHRA and presto no more S/SS just super catogories and T/S T/D.So go ahead dream on you
malcontents and kill off S/SS.


Ed F.

Re: S/SS - Lower the index -0.50 & run Pro ladder
 

Super stock will never be a REAL race until someone figures out how to race each other without the shoepolish. Until then it remains as is, a glorified bracket race.

Re: S/SS - Lower the index -0.50 & run Pro ladder
 

It's already difficult for the average person to run the circuit competitively, if at all. It costs too much!
Fortunately, one can still be competitive using their skills rather than lots of money. If one has more money than driving ability, THEY should go find a heads-up class instead of trying to ruin it for the majority. This is Sportsman racing, not Pro racing.

Besides, the diversity of cars, from the common Camaros, Dusters, Mustangs and FI vehicles, to the uncommon, including Corvairs, Gremlins, pick-ups, etc. make it all interesting for more people.

...and we still have class eliminations for the heads-up die-hards!

Re: S/SS - Lower the index -0.50 & run Pro ladder
 

Then go race Comp,Alcohol,Pro Stock etc.I'll buy any bottles of shoe polish you care to part with,that's if you have a car to race.
I think I know what's happening.All these people wanting all the changes are suffering from Dick Butler Syndrome.



Ed F.

Re: S/SS - Lower the index -0.50 & run Pro ladder
 

Actually we are suffering from the days when it was real racing and not what it has become today.

Re: S/SS - Lower the index -0.50 & run Pro ladder
 

Please post real name and car number.

Re: S/SS - Lower the index -0.50 & run Pro ladder
 

Kip Martin SS/L 1964 Mustang.

Re: S/SS - Lower the index -0.50 & run Pro ladder
 

I don't want to lose the performance part of the stock racing, but we couldn't get the indexes lowered back to the old indexes of old. I doubt if such a radical change is on the horizon. It is difficult to do any of it by pounding on a keyboard with an alias also. Maybe a call to your Div rep could start the review process for change. One thing that could be done by had to be there is that she could sponsor and run a quick 32 type race that could be run heads up no breakout. that would be cool, but would take some action on her part.

If I could change the format, I would lower the indexes .2 and in Nat's that have less than a full field allowed, then only qualify 64. For example, if the quota is 80 then use a 64 car field. It would have to be known in advance so folks could plan. I think Indy worked out ok, but it would have been a better move to make the changes before anyone had entered. The timing of the change was not well planned or executed.

I am not sure about the proposed change process, but I would think that any propsal should go to the Div reps or directors to be reviewed for 2009. It seems as if the Div reps are merely the unpaid meat in the sandwich right now. If anyone knows who seems to be guiding the group of div reps that would be helpful too. Seems like there is no NHRA person responsible that is visable to the customers. (I mean racers)

My 2 cents. Maybe one cent. :)

Re: S/SS - Lower the index -0.50 & run Pro ladder
 

Stock-Super stock is part bracket racing, part performance racing. If you think it is just bracket racing tell the guys who actually went to Indy and did not make the field because they did not have the performance or lost heads up in eliminations.. Most keyboard racers have no idea how hard it is to go fast and then dial your car for the next round. A lot of the racers who did not make the field at Indy are darn good racers not bracket racers. They are not crying on this site, guys who do not go are the ones crying. The winners in Stk/SS race more NHRA/IHRA events than bracket races, get off the computer and work on your car and then your driving. Maybe next we can talk about after market heads again and again and again and again.......

Re: S/SS - Lower the index -0.50 & run Pro ladder
 

I nice stepping stone would be to run qualifying off our index. It doesn't hurt anyone but brings a little more performance back to the classes.

Re: S/SS - Lower the index -0.50 & run Pro ladder
 

we can only run ..9 under and still think running off of a real index would be more exciting and real to the fans. the local dirt track boys do not dial in and they have way bigger crows than local dragstrips. bracket racing is not racing, it is consistency driving.

Re: S/SS - Lower the index -0.50 & run Pro ladder
 

we can only run ..9 under and still think running off of a real index would be more exciting and real to the fans. the local dirt track boys do not dial in and they have way bigger crowds than local dragstrips. bracket racing is not racing, it is consistency driving.

Re: S/SS - Lower the index -0.50 & run Pro ladder
 

Unfortunately, I would bet that if class racing would have been heads-up or run flat out against respective indexes, it would have lost many racers and disappeared many years ago. It's simply a matter of economics.

Re: S/SS - Lower the index -0.50 & run Pro ladder
 

If the format changed to running off the index how many 1st rd. losses because you're only .90 under would it take to convince you to stop beating your head against the wall and going to surrender?

Ed F.

Re: S/SS - Lower the index -0.50 & run Pro ladder
 

Kip;
Now that I know your identity I know that you have been at it a long time and your opinion is more that credable,but I still disagree about lowering .50.Just the money bags racers will stay and it would become Comp Jr.

Ed F.

Re: S/SS - Lower the index -0.50 & run Pro ladder
 

If you mean handicap qualifying runs off the indexes, we do that at Div 4 points races right now. It is fun, and interesting.

I would be for dropping the Super Stock indexes 1/2 second. Have no opinion on Stock. 1.05 under is the best I have been so far, but would still be in favor of it.

I would also be in favor of the higher qualifier getting lane choice instead of a coin flip.

It doesn't always cost money to go faster, much of it comes testing and working on the car more.

Re: S/SS - Lower the index -0.50 & run Pro ladder
 

Yes!

Re: S/SS - Lower the index -0.50 & run Pro ladder
 

if i knew fastest car won i would not quit, i would cocentrate on trying to go faster. and no we do not run as much as you guys on the national and divisional level. but once a year we go to one. set one record in nhra in 03 at ohio valley in ss/cs, but we run local at bethany mo.in a spec head class. if you think that is easy come over and try it. we have been 6.28 at 10.5 pounds and we are behind in performance to a car at 11.5 that has been 6.37. try that with an untouched brodix spec head on a 276. our web site is www.headsup-racing . com. we have bigger crowds than any local track usually.

Re: S/SS - Lower the index -0.50 & run Pro ladder
 

Lowering the index's would be a great Idea. In a perfect world, Where nhra would uphold rules that are already in place, and not be wishy-washy. as soon as someone seeks legal advice.
But it's not a perfect world. And the index's are the only thing that separates the "mega racer" from the little guy.
For all you guys that hate the breakout so much. There is a partial solution. Build a car that fits in a large (heavily contested) class. This way the odds of a heads up run are much greater.
I have raced back when it was go fast. And liked every minute of it. But back then I truly believed that nhra was watching out for the little guy (back then maybe they were?). WE won some races lost a lot, Worked hard and gained a great amout of knowlege
With go fast racing in the present day. Somewill always "outspend" you or find a car on paper that will be able to give a bunch away at the starting line and get to the stripe first.
At the Class Nationals in Rockford Il. a few years back I had a bad plug wire. Ran on 3 cylinders. Still ran better than a second under. Got back home fixed the problem and ran better than 2 under spinning the tires. I'm not blowing my own horn because I'm sure others out there could have done what I did and maybe even quicker.
The breakout is necessary and without it the sport would be dead in 2 years.

Re: S/SS - Lower the index -0.50 & run Pro ladder
 

I'm in SS/JA, several in Div 4, where there are several fast ones, so I do have heads-up races. Love them, which ever way it turns out. GT/AA is another very popular class, there are others.

Dropping the SS indexes (I don't mean stock, I don't have a dog in that fight.) won't do away with break outs. Might stop some stockers from coming over and running way under. That alone shows the indexes are too soft to be meaningful. Those guys might be the biggest objectors about lowering the SS indexes, not being competitive in another eliminator. If one could still run under the SS index with them dropped 1/2 second, more power to them. The only reason for an SS car not being able to run more than 1/2 under would be wrong car, sombody doesn't know enough, or ain't tryin hard enough. Probably the latter.

Re: S/SS - Lower the index -0.50 & run Pro ladder
 

Moving the index .5 does not affect anything except the "appearance". It looks so common to run 1.0 under now that some are tired of it. There are not many who are not .5 or more under so it would not affect much.
Having Big classes like AH, GT/AA B/SA etc MAKES class racing important. Having fewer classes would condense the OTHER cars into bigger classes also. Then MORE racers, spectators and ...... could have the fun of the heads up part of S and SS. Everyone could still have the Bracket Mode eliminator to run on Sunday or at points meets but INDY and Nationals in general could become more competitive for the group that asks for Heads up racing to be more frequent.
Fewer classes does NOT affect cost to race, distance to the track or limit new racers. Everyone can still make eliminations at a Nationals by making the Qualifying list...Even the first year car. A lot of class losers ran elimination on Sunday at Indy I believe.

Re: S/SS - Lower the index -0.50 & run Pro ladder
 

Didnt we try a Pro ladder in Stk and SS a couple of years ago ,and switch back. Please just one of you guys explain to me what lowering the Indexes is going to accomplish ??????????????

Re: S/SS - Lower the index -0.50 & run Pro ladder
 

Removing the break out would be refreshing. I understand the 'cost' theory to run fast, however, the hours I spent to squeeze another tenth out of the car are what it was about. Then being on the tree so as to not give that tenth away. Fans DO NOT show up for weekly bracket racing and that is what even most S/SS shows are. They show up for the races where if the win light comes on, that guy or gal got there first. They don't have to look at the dial-in and calculate who won or why they won. I just don't see the motivation anymore to build a fast car except for something like Indy. Even the 'experts', aka Fletcher and others skipped SS at Indy cause they have built cars that are great bracket cars but can't cut it heads up. Just the thoughts of an old, retired super stock racer.

Re: S/SS - Lower the index -0.50 & run Pro ladder
 

One thing I`ve noticed when a topic like this is brought up,it`s always started by and supported by racers that it wouldn`t affect. "Sure,take off .050,bring it on,I can still go 1.00 under if I leaned on it a little bit." Well,there`s still racers out there there that don`t think this way,and all it would do is chase them and more away. I kept my mouth shut when the recent "Class Bump In" rule changed,but I was all for it. Why? Because so many people just kind of shrugged it off several years ago about the .050 under class win rule,because it only affected less than 20% of the Class Racers/Winners. When the new rule came out about Class Winners not automatically "Bumping In",it affected EVERYONE! Now it`s a whole new ordeal and it sucks! Just get used to the fact that the rules are always going to change at a whim,and no one will ever be happy.

Re: S/SS - Lower the index -0.50 & run Pro ladder
 

I'm not trying to tell anyone what NHRA or any person should do, but passing along some thought and info. I have not raced NHRA since 1977. I was always interested and working with people racing Stockers since the mid 60s. I loved the Jr. Stockers and always will. My dream was to race a stocker and finally did a little in the 70s but didn't have the means to contunie. That was my problem, not NHRA or other racers. I never wanted anything changed so I could. Then in the 90s I got into Nostalgia racing and have had some success and lots of fun. No, it will never be the NHRA I love so much, but it does let an old man full fill some of his dreams. For the ones not familar with it, we race and qualify off an index, you run .001 under you lose or go to the bottom of the ladder. There are rules on engine types in body styles and years. Also carburetor and intake rules but not much else. It's not NHRA but it's not bracket either, as you pick a class before you make your first quailfing run and have to stick to it all weekend. But, if you know your car and can adjust for conditions and drive, you have just as good a chance as anyone when you leave home.
What I'm saying is there are other ways to race without messing up NHRA that so many love and support.
Jim Netherland
2007 NMCA Nostalgia Super Stock World Champion
B/NSS 67 Buick GS "Mad Torquer"

Re: S/SS - Lower the index -0.50 & run Pro ladder
 

..who would go to races whitout a chance of winning or even winning a round?Bob Shaw or someone like him would win alot before his current combo would be in line with others then he would just show up with a new one,it would sure change the type of cars running in stock,and without any real tech how would you actually do it,and how many would actually stay in the class if your Camaro was dead meat and you had to get a "fast" car,not a good looking one? In SS there would probably only be modified cars left since there are constantly improved parts to get in that area compared to regular classes.

What is stopping us from arrange classracing during the regular timetrials ourselves at races that dont have it?sure no extra money(if not the racers decide to put it up themselves) but fun racing and the bragging rights are still there..some Nationals will be hard ofcourse with only 2 hits...well ofcourse with AHFS as today no one would hang it out anyway but there is factored tracks and tracks with bad air where it could be done !

I am for lowering the indexes (and keeping the trigger or a wider spread than today) because i think its needed to see were all combos actually are flat out right now,to much storys about "a couple of hundred pounds in the trunk" and so on for the current "not so good" factoringsystem to wok!i If it would show that some are way ahead some "human power" would need to take care of that.

Qualifying from the indexes could be a good thing(exept for safteyreasons maybe)...why not try it?

Pro Ladder..not flipping coins...not for me...it's called sportsman racing..NOT Professional..i afraid changing the format would hurt these classes,,since it's still this popular it has to be somewhat right as it is!

Re: S/SS - Lower the index -0.50 & run Pro ladder
 

lower the index .5 pro ladder and fullout finals.

Re: S/SS - Lower the index -0.50 & run Pro ladder
 

Dick, What class will you be running when they are consildated? Im sure you will be the fastest!

Re: S/SS - Lower the index -0.50 & run Pro ladder
 

Here we go again, "lets lower the indexes". What is wrong with you people. All you are trying to do is to protect your combo from being hit with HP because you can run more that 1 second under. So instead of doing a viable solution, you take the ignorant route. Meanwhile you will eliminate alot of racers or soon to be entrants. The only reason that you want to lower the indexes is for your own agendas. If you tomatoes out there had any brains you would be pushing for an elimination of the trigger. That is where the problem exists. The trigger. If there was no trigger you could run it out and not worry. Then you would have everybody going all out and viola, a performance based category. Who cares if you go 1 under or 1.5 under, it only matters when it is a heads up race. Why would you build a "race car" and try to slow it down. That is stupid. Get off your butts and bitch to NHRA to get rid of the trigger. After a while it will be evident which combos are in need of review and actions can be taken then. After about a year of running it out the back door it will be obvious which combos are factored wrong.

Now quit you ridiculous campaigning to lower the indexes and start bitching to get rid of that pain in the *** trigger.

And while I am thinking about it tell NHRA to quit raping the contingency sponsors. Then you would not have to consolidate classes.

Ron Ortiz
U/SA does'nt really matter, Stock will be gone soon. T/D & T/S

Re: S/SS - Lower the index -0.50 & run Pro ladder
 

I agree totally with Ron Ortiz. Drop the trigger altogether & leave the indexes alone! Lowering the number will do nothing but stop new people from wanting to run in Stock/Super Stock. Not a solution to the current problem.

Re: S/SS - Lower the index -0.50 & run Pro ladder
 

Let me get see if I get this line of thinking.
If you never lower the indexes and do away with the trigger for factoring, eventually there would be two or more seconds between two cars in the same class.
How many seconds would be acceptable to not discourage new participants 2?... 3 ?

Re: S/SS - Lower the index -0.50 & run Pro ladder
 

That is perhaps a good point that there may be quite a gap between two cars in the same class. But will not N.H.R.A. re-factor the horsepower of the cars that continue to run real fast after the trigger goes away. If two cars happen to have the same combo in the same class the slow car will also be hit,which is essentially making it tougher for him to run the index.
I actually think even if they dropped the trigger there would still be a bit of the sandbagging that exists now because no one wants to get h.p. by going too fast & getting "noticed".

Re: S/SS - Lower the index -0.50 & run Pro ladder
 

At this point in time I do not believe would be 2 seconds between any class in stock. Lowering indexes is the same old garbage.

Re: S/SS - Lower the index -0.50 & run Pro ladder
 

This is exactly what we had before, that everyone complained about.

Re: S/SS - Lower the index -0.50 & run Pro ladder
 

Not saying there is now, Tony. That would be the results eventually.
You already have JR Stock cars running 1.50 under .How long before they run 10.30's ?
How much is too much?

Re: S/SS - Lower the index -0.50 & run Pro ladder
 

Okay, so you remove the trigger. The trigger doesn't do anything but cause an evaluation to be done. So, no trigger, no evaluation. No evaluation, no HP changes. How well is THAT going to work? And don't even THINK about a "HP committee". That sure as Hell won't work.

Re: S/SS - Lower the index -0.50 & run Pro ladder
 

No, I would not call moving classes and not running on kill all the time cheating. I'd call it wise, as well as smart racing. Especially when the combination is by far not the most under factored in the classes.