Just read this on DRO
 

http://www.dragracingonline.com/burksblast/x_9-3.html

HMMMMMM!!!!!

Re: Just read this on DRO
 

That isnt going to fix ****!

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most of our crashes are from people slamming the brakes or maybe blowing an engine ,so how shorting the track is going to fix this problem?

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Well, I certainly hope this isn't the case. Maybe it's time for a poll to see if the sportsman racers support this, and if not to get the Sportsman Racing Advisory Council involved.

I loved Burk's analogy about NASCAR when Earnhardt died. Did NASCAR reduce the length of Daytona and Talladega by 25% or reduce the speeds of the cars any further? Nope. They improved the cars and the safety equipment being used. Plus, Dale Earnhardt was one of the most outspoken drivers about slowing the cars down and using restrictor plates.

Reducing the track to 1000' will definitely cut down speeds, which does reduce the possibility for injury when an accident occurs (its all about momentum). But, IMHO, the recent deaths that we have seen are not a direct result of the speeds at which these drivers were traveling. Instead, it was simply a series of unfortunate events. Seriously, before recent events, who was the last .90 racer to be killed at an NHRA national or LODRS event? Its just not that common of an occurrence, especially when you factor in the number of passes that have been made in these classes.

My sympathies go out to the families and friends that have lost loved ones while racing, but I for one don't like it (though, for us sportsman racers, it will be easier on the equipment, and many will probably like the decision because of this).

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Who's the 3rd driver in the last month to die besides Steve Engel and Doug McRobie?

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i heard from someone that somebody died at atlanta but i didn't see anything on the computer.

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Go to DRO under the 1320 agent it is the second page back i think
It was a AA/FC guy

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Tony is that an attitude ? I think NHRA could find a better solution to the problem, this is a band aid on an open wound. NASCAR went to the soft walls in the corners can't they install something like this from 1000 ft on to the end. Is the cost to much for them to absorb.I think this is the beginning of every one going 1/8 mi. Hope it's not true.

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found it

Martindale suffers fatal accident at Atlanta


Bobby Martindale, 65, of Glen Allen, Va. was killed Saturday, Oct. 4, during round 1 qualifying in Top Alcohol Funny Car at the NHRA Lucas Oil Drag Racing Series, Southeast Division, event at Atlanta Dragway.
Martindale was on and off the throttle several times during his run and his engine quit with a bang at the finish line. His chutes did not deploy and his car hit the left retaining wall in the shutdown area. The body came off and the car continued on through the sand trap and the catch fence and into the wooded area beyond, where a small fire started, but was quickly put out.
DRO offers out heartfelt condolences to the Martindale family. [10/06/08]

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Div 2 alcohol funny car driver passed away after a crash this weekend the name slips my mind at the moment

sorry guys was typing while somebody posted his name

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I have been racing the 9.90 category since the early 1990's and almost every one of those years at least one or two of the 9.90 category racers died in a crash duing the year. It has just gotten worse the last few years as speed increased and more people are on the brakes hard at the finish line. I can remember two drivers from last year who died in the 9.90 category finish line crashes.
One quick fix is to enforce the braking rule at the finish line now in place. I race 6 to 10 division races and 6 to 8 National events each year and watch all the sportsman category races I can. I can not count the number of times I have witnessed smoke on the tires and people almost loose it on the big end even in the stock category at just over 100 MPH with no consequences. Most of my 9.90 category racers now run at around 160 MPH at the finish line which makes things worse with hard braking. A friend last year hit the brakes so hard he moved over and crossed the finish line in the opposite lane. All he was told was do not do that again. As bad as it scared him I am sure he won't but others will until they have the same result or worse.
I have also witnessed some of the big names almost loose it at the finish line win and be back and do the same thing next round.
Until NHRA steps up with disqualifications and supensions for hard braking at the finish line this will continue to happen even at 1000 ft or even 1/8 th mile.
Just My 2 Cents

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Sounds like it's time to update the catch fence. Looking at his run, he crossed the finish line at only 180mph. Plenty of time to coast to a slower speed. There shouldn't have been any reason the catch fence did not stop the car.

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Agreed. Any big surprise this was at an NHRA owned track? Anyone care to bet that the catch fence at Atlanta has not been updated yet like at Indy where they spent probably 30 minutes of broadcasting time telling how great of a job NHRA did with the new sand trap and catch fence? Would anybody be surprised if this hadn't been done since the Pros don't race at Atlanta again until next spring???

63corvette - I totally agree with you about the braking, I just have no idea how you enforce it, and when it has been brought up here in the past the competitors general reaction has been, "If you don't like it, or are too scared to race where hard braking is part of the game, then go race someplace else." So, I'm not sure you'd get the type of support you'd need on this issue to make a difference.

I don't know what caused Doug McRobie's crash, but again, I agree with you that the vast majority of the bracket racing (and that includes the .90 classes) crashes that I have witnessed have been due to excessive braking. Unfortunately, most of the drivers that I know that have had close calls, eventually go back to stabbing the brakes hard at the finish line. Some do it slowly over time, some it doesn't phase them at all and they go right back to doing in. IMHO, they're playing with fire, and eventually will get burned, hopefully just not to the extent that it will cause somebody's death.

That said, I don't believe your statement about one or two .90 racers being killed every year since 1990. I'm not saying that it's not true, but I'd have to see actual data before I believed that statement. Again, before McRobie, I can't remember the last .90 driver to be killed, particularly at a national or divisional event. And if that statement is true, I guess I'll have to stop bitching about my life insurance being so high compared to the normal everyday Joe.

There is a couple of ways you can look at this though:

1. There will always be deaths involved, as racing automobiles is a dangerous sport, and comes with inherent risks.

2. The sanctioning bodies need to do more to improve the safety of the competitors through upgrades to the facilities, and the creation of new rules and enforcement of existing rules, including those that would force some to either make significant changes to their cars or not be allowed to race.

For the sake of not making this post any longer (if any of you are still reading) I won't go into great detail, but I can't tell you how many times I've looked at a car in the staging lanes and said to myself, "Wow, I can't believe they're going to let that death trap go down the track." This happens MOSTLY at the local tracks, not the big races (heck, at most NHRA races, I'm usually saying, "Wow, that's a nice piece.") However, tech inspection could still be more thorough than it currently is, but my guess is that its not just due to time constraints (NHRA or IHRA can't spend an hour plus teching each car like NASCAR does because if they did tech inspection would last for days).

Let the hate mail begin...

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Jason I do not have data to support the one or two 90 racers killed every year since 1990 but I race across the country and can assure you it is the case. The reason the data is not available is NHRA does not put that kind of info out. They would rather that not be known. Those deaths did not always happen at a National Event or Divisional event but at a smaller track in an et race. Hardly any mention at all of those last 3 deaths in any publication I get. That is why it is not well known.
As far as the comment on passing tech I agree there are some cars at every race National, Divisional, or ET race that should not be down the track. More probably at the ET races at the small tracks.
Example, I was in the tech line close to a car at INDY this year I thought would not pass tech but it did.
It was a roadster with a scoop open on the back with the carb open to the driver which I thought was a NO NO yet it passed.
I just may be getting to old to do this.
Just My 2 Cents

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Great post Jason......... and I will totally agree with your 2nd point that NHRA needs to improve on safety features at all sanctioned tracks........ I have seen accidents where cars got tangled up in guard rails in the shut down areas whch caused devastating injuries and in one case a fatality......... the tracks made statements claiming that the barriers would be changed, but as far as I know, have not........ but NHRA continues to hold races at these tracks without demanding improvement....... I have stopped attending races where there are guard rails instead of concrete barriers for the past couple of years....... if more racers boycotted unsafe tracks, or at least made their feelings known to their Division Directors of NHRA, maybe we could race under safer conditions......

Unfortunately, there will always be excessive braking and a a result, some crashes........ this is unacceptable, but if it happens there should be safe crash barriers designed to prevent serious injuries or death........

Like stated earlier, racing to 1000 ft is only a bandaid..... it will change things temporarily..... but not really change anything........ NASCAR did not shorten the length of their races because of crashes near the end of the race........ they changed the tracks and made them safer.......

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If you ever want to hear a nightmare story about NHRA and liability issues, ask Don Davis what happened when one of his cars crashed many years ago. Not a pretty story.

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Talk about track safety. I attended a NHRA National open this summer at a midwest track where there was NO Guardrail Past The Finish Line on the left hand side. It was stacked off the side of the track in loose piles about 50 ft from the racing surface. It was armor plate and piled loosly with exposed ends sticking up in the air. I went there and pushed the piles with those sticking up in the air toward the track down to where they did not point down track where cars would be coming at them but the loosely stacked piles were still there.
I was not comfortable with the track but decided to run and run the right lane as much as possible as we had traveled so far. There was a small car count and no crashes but it could have been a disaster. Needless to say my last trip there.
By the way the division NHRA crew was there and watched it happen.

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A couple of weeks ago they interviewed graham light on nhra 2day asked him about the s.a.f.e.r wall barriers .........he said he didn't feel they were needed in drag racing , if i understood his interview,, i e-mailed n.h.r.a & suggested he explain that to some of the familes of the racers who lost their love ones this year........................could it have helped.????? ...............................a wall is a wall..............does nascar use different concrete than n.h.r.a..?..........when it could be a part failure that causes the accident or some meathead locking up the brakes....if the s.a.f.e.r wall could absorb the impact & save lives.....i think it could work in drag racing..........................thats my opinion.....& you know what they say about opinions...!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Top end braking has always been an issue.....when they check the master log time sheet, they can tell who lifted & dropped a couple of mph's or who locked up the brakes & scrubbed 15 mph off..........the time slips don't lie.........

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I wouldn't say they're not needed, but my understanding is that they will not work the way they are currently designed as they're not meant for straight-line racing. Supposedly, the current design would worsen the problem, as they would snatch cars and pull them into the wall, not let them bounce off the way the walls do now. Again, this is supposedly why they don't have the soft wall all the way around the circle tracks, and only in the corners (in other words, not on the straightaways).

I don't know this to be fact, just my understanding. That said, I certainly don't believe that a safer system couldn't be designed. It would take away from the visual aspect of the sport, but why not have extremely tall catch fences on the walls? Every time I've seen somebody get badly hurt where it wasn't at the end of the track has been when somebody has got on top of the wall, and either come down on the top edge, or went off into some area of the property that they weren't supposed to. This would have the added benefit of protecting people outside of the racing surface as well from flying debris (including race cars).

IMHO, its only a matter of time until a spectator (or two or three) is killed by flying debris like a wheel coming off of a fuel car. If NHRA thinks their insurance is high because of drivers getting killed, wait until a spectator or two is killed...

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Charlie,

I agree with you also, especially when it comes to guard rails instead of concrete barriers. I too refuse to run on any track that does not have the concrete barriers. I think we all need to make decisions for ourselves on when and where we run our cars. Go with your gut feeling. I remember once where several of the Super Gas cars refused to run after the Jet Cars There has to be some kind of technology that can improve the safety of these tracks especially Top End. Hopefully something will change.

Pat I
SG1809

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ask walter olt if he stabbed the brakes at atco in round 1 of sc, then bob lang allows him to run sg and no action against him. i like walter and his dad but if d1 allows this type of driving without disqualfiction then i vote to go eight mile, a lot less time to sandbag and stab the brakes. i run 167 mph at 9.90 and will not risk breaking my neck,back and ribs just to win a round or a event that pays almost spit. i think nhra should care more about track prep and a real teck instead of sticking to a schedule so they can go home early on sunday. sorry to go on like jason. chuck rothermel sg1583

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sorry to go on like jason. that was nothing like Jason would have posted. Its too short.

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Sorry...I like to hear myself talk...:p

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I think we need to police ourselves as much as n.h.r.a. Needs to police us.....................there is always room for improvement.......i think as drivers .....we impolment common sense.......that would be a big start....................its been a bad year professional & sportsman....hopefully we can do better next year...................we all sometimes push the envelope................but no body holds a gun to our head & makes us go down the track when conditions aren't the best............it just sucks because sometimes when you run last you don't have the same track conditions as those classes before you.....&... Trying to run a normal 3 day event in 2 surely doesn't help...........lots of questions.......so few answers

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did these happen because the track was 300 ft longer?....I doubt it......

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One thing the time slips won't show is whether you dropped 15 mph in the last 100 feet or 15 mph in the last 200 feet. I think the tire smoke argument is better than the amount of speed dropped. I could kill 3 mph in the last 5 feet of the track and wreck, or I could kill 15 mph in the last 200 feet and be perfectly safe.

Sometimes you have to kill 15 mph when people have .086 lights against you, right gator? :D

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From what I hear.....we are still going 1/4 mile....

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I never hit the brakes too hard....just sometimes too early