Pickup bed covers in competition in Stock
 

RE: Tonneau Covers on pickup beds in competition, in Stock Eliminator.

I don't see anything in the 2008 rulebook about the legal status of them.

Are they in fact, legal to use?

I have seen them being run, but would like to be sure, one way or another.

Thanks for any information.

Re: Pickup bed covers in competition in Stock
 

Bob Shaw & Jackie Lovins both ran them....I'd say LEGAL !! :-)

Re: Pickup bed covers in competition in Stock
 

Bill;
As one old timer to another.Take a chill pill.Is your life so boring this actually has so much importance?
I have a load of old SS/DI mags I can send you to get you through the day.

Ed F.

Re: Pickup bed covers in competition in Stock
 

Ed wrote:
"this actually has so much importance?"

Who said it was "important?

I was just having a discussion with someone about the age-old question of whether it was more beneficial to run a pickup tailgate up or down flat, in terms of aerodynamic drag

I found pictures of the McCormack truck with the tailgate down, and the John Lovins truck with it up. Then, someone pointed out that the newer photos of the Lovins truck had a tonneau cover on it, and it made me wonder...

Not real important, but, interesting, don't you think?
I couldn't find anything in the rule book about it, one way or the other.

I'm sure somebody on this forum will have some firsthand information about the subject.
Lots of good information available here!

Re: Pickup bed covers in competition in Stock
 

I'm with Ed...you gotta find something else to fill your days with!

Re: Pickup bed covers in competition in Stock
 

It must be "that time of the month".....as Ed & bsa633 are both on the "rag"........:-)
ED---while going thru those SS&DI mags,,,pull out the July '87 issue and turn to page 30 and who wrote the article ? Also February '85 page 59,Sept '84 page 63 also JUne '80,Dec '78.........while you're not doing anything. :-) Enlighten us ...please....

Re: Pickup bed covers in competition in Stock
 

John Lang;
I didn't highjack the EFI thread and whine like an old wash woman and bust the turbo car guys b#%#@ like Mr. Dedman.The tonneau cover thread came somewhere from the Twilight Zone.And an interesting thing I've read in the 60's SS/DI mags is that the bitchers,whinners,crybabies were plying their trade even then.They just didn't have the internet to cry a river into.If my original post offends you,tough noogies.


Ed F.

Re: Pickup bed covers in competition in Stock
 

Ed,
WHO IS "JOHN LANG"?????????

And... If you don't know the answer to the tonneau cover question, just say so.... that's nothing to be ashamed of; It's NOT in the rulebook (not that I can find, anyway.)

Maybe you should apologize to Mr. Lang...

Re: Pickup bed covers in competition in Stock
 

Man, what's everybody's problem? Dude asked a simple question. Per the IHRA Rulebook, at least....

"BODY: Ground effect packages, bed covers permitted. No camper covers permitted.
Trucks must race with tail gate up. Lowering of truck permitted. Truck must retain level
attitude with 1/2” at stand still."

Re: Pickup bed covers in competition in Stock
 

I thought that thread was hijacked whwen Ed O' started blasting everybody. OR when the guy that started it qualified #4 at -1.335 at the divisional !!

DID YOU LOOK AT THE ARTICLES I ASKED ABOUT ????????
obviously not........
HAVE A NICE DAY........... :-)

Re: Pickup bed covers in competition in Stock
 

Thanks a lot, Michael!!! I don't know how I missed it, except that I probably wasn't looking in "GROUND EFFECTS" for something that goes on TOP of a pickup bed...

Oops... Just realized you said it was in the "IHRA" rule book. My bad...

I do appreciate the help!

Re: Pickup bed covers in competition in Stock
 

Myth Busters did a show on the tailgate efficiency. They took identical new trucks on the highway and ran them for many miles(A few hundred) and the tailgate up got better mileage

Greg

Re: Pickup bed covers in competition in Stock
 

Greg, of course, that's indicative of less drag, so it would probably run the quarter-mile quicker in the up position, too, don't you think?

Thanks for the info!

Re: Pickup bed covers in competition in Stock
 

I was just reading this thread for a lack of anything better to do, when i see my name, JOHN LANG about whinning and thought did i have a senior moment? As in, did say something to piss somebody off? I do tend to babble at times but if i did i appologize!! Tell me , this will drive me nuts, as i'm old and don't have anything else to do. Ed, there was'nt anything on that page in DRAG RACING mag, just an add! Later............John Lang

Re: Pickup bed covers in competition in Stock
 

hey there bill
We built a ss/tb truck some years back and it had a fabricated tonneu on it. it covered up the batteries and fuel cell. should be same rules for stock!!!??

Re: Pickup bed covers in competition in Stock
 

Try Super Stock & Drag Illustrated July 1987 page 31....no ads there :-)

Re: Pickup bed covers in competition in Stock
 

I got it if I can figure out a way to post it I will. Its a story called "The missiles of San Ramon" it appears to be abuout a 73 duster driven in J stock by a father and son. It is written by Bill Dedman. Nothing about pickup covers or turbos

Rob

Re: Pickup bed covers in competition in Stock
 

John; Didn't read the articles,maybe because i dont have any of the ones you mentioned.I didn't say you were one of the whinners,only that it was going on even then without the benefit of the internet.The whinning just travels faster now.
Ducky;Bill seems to come up with questions that seem to piss off alot of CURRENT racers,he has no dog in the fight.
He's entitled to post and I'm just entitled to answer.
Things must be slow where he lives.

Ed F.

Re: Pickup bed covers in competition in Stock
 

Ed,

Things ARE slow here, and that's why I'm here. I spent the last 24 years in Kalifornia (the San Francisco Bay Area,) and I was ready for a "slowdown" after passing 65, in 2003.

My opinion:
It doesn't matter a whit whether someone is currently running a car, or not; they can still have an opinion, and ideas about what goes on, and they can be valid. As you well know, there's another bulletin board (forum) on this site for the people who are currently racing. If you think that their opinions and ideas have more merit than the folks who post here, then, that's probably the forum you should frequent. You race, and have a permanent number, so, it would be no problem at all for you. I can't post there.

I was not trying to bust anybody's ba**s with my comments about turbochargers and un-monitored boost levels. I was trying to get some discussion started about what to do about a problem that has been plaguing Stock Eliminator at national events for over four years (and, maybe longer.)

What I got for my effort was songs and dances from people who run those cars, with never an admission that there even WAS a problem at national events, even though I showed them the numbers that strongly suggested otherwise. Even though I don't race a Class car, I got accused of "whining," when in fact, I have nothing to "whine" about. I was just pointing out what I felt to be the the pertinent facts. That's not "whining."

But, there was nothing in the way of support forthcoming from the normally-aspirated car owners, so, I finally had to agree with the turbo guys;... apparently, there REALLY IS NO PROBLEM.

So, I finally gave up trying... probably a good thing. It was never my intention to anger people.
The thing that is still hanging out (it seems to me) is that... if there were no truth to my contention, then why would they care if my plan were activated? It wouldn't matter, if there were no problem.

Oh well; it is what it is.... and NHRA can't make any money by fixing it, so THAT's not gonna happen...

The tonneau cover question was just because of my inherent curiosity. I still can't find anything about the legality of it in the NHRA rule book. Maybe it's just not in there...

Re: Pickup bed covers in competition in Stock
 

SS Crew Chief,

You said, "should be same rules for stock!!!?? "

Maybe... maybe not. NHRA has some funny concepts about stuff like that.
I have a feeling we'll find out, though, if we keep talking about it, here.

Thanks for the info!!!

Re: Pickup bed covers in competition in Stock
 

Bill "PLEASE GET A LIFE" Stop picking out things that don't concern you in the least I know a few guys that race trucks in stock. They have covers nhra has not said a thing about them.
Are you trying to get them in trouble?
Just one point. As far as the turbo cars qualifing number one! Do you realize that a lot of people in stock and superstock can go a whole lot quicker than their qualifying. They don't run as fast as they can, to protect their combo, index etc. So your data is totally flawed.
I see you come from San Francisco. That explains a lot.
"GOTTA LOVE THEM SAN FRANCISCO VALUES"
Try to concentrate on the .90 classes There the wealth has already been redistributed. Maybe you can start a thread about why some guys lose first round all the time. Seems like a conspiricy to me. LOL

Re: Pickup bed covers in competition in Stock
 

Art,

Maybe YOU are the one who needs to "get a life." Your "life", lately, seems to revolve around trying to control what I write on this forum, and just why it concerns you to the extent that you feel compelled to comment about it, endlessly, is a mystery to me.

Do I tell YOU what to write about?

There's a name for people like that; I think they call them "control freaks."

Well, I don't know whether you're a full-blown "freak," or not, but you're surely working up to it.

If you don't enjoy learning about the vagaries (look it up) of drag racing from the folks who post about the myriad subjects on here, DON'T READ IT!

That wouldn't be too hard, would it????

And, for crying out loud, how can ~!~ get ANYBODY "in trouble" just by asking a simple yes or no question on this forum? Do you think I have THAT MUCH INFLUENCE in Glendora??? I wish...

And no, that was surely not my intention. I was in a discussion about the aerodynamic drag factors of tailgates (up vs. down) when we saw a picture of a pickup racing with a bed cover. I'd never seen one in competition like that and was curious about what the rulebook had to say about it, because it would surely relegate the discussion about the tailgate position to the round file. Jesus....

The last time I checked, YOU were not the moderator of this forum. Are you having delusions of grandeur?

I'll make a deal with you; I won't comment on your posts if you don't comment on mine. If you see one with my name on it, just skip it; Your blood pressure will thank you.

Re: Pickup bed covers in competition in Stock
 

THAT IS FUNNY.......if you only knew how bad Bill HATES "Bagdad By The Bay" !!!!!!!! :-)
He actually lived in Hayward in the east bay....not far from Vic Hubbard's Speed Shop and Fremont Drag Strip..........

Re: Pickup bed covers in competition in Stock
 

He certainly has a real San Francisco sensitivity quotient,sorta like when you disagree with a "yahoo",
you're accused of being &%#*phobic.
On a side note,the May 1964 issue of Drag Racing has an article about the pros reaction to the "new"
5 amber tree.Dyno Don didn't like it.He said the slower car has the advantage of taking a shot at the tree,
because they had nothing to lose.He still liked the flagman,yellow/green light start.Sturm,Mazmanian,Weney,Beswick,Proffit and other top dogs agreed.Nothinglike having your cake and eating it too.
Sorry for high jacking the thread but it's been blownup already.I think this is more interesting than tonneau covers anyway.

Ed F.

Re: Pickup bed covers in competition in Stock
 

Hey Ed,,,with all this talk of Superstock and Drag Illustrated magazines and Drag Racing issues from as far back as 1964,,, I'm wondering if you have or know of someone with a November 64' issue of SSDI that is willing to part with it. My collection of SSDI starts with the Dec.64' issue and I would love the chance to purchase a Nov. issue. Thanks to friends like Bob Rice who keeps me posted of E-Bay and other sightings I'm getting close, but I'm still missing that magazine. Thanks for any info or help you can provide.
Danny Durham

Re: Pickup bed covers in competition in Stock
 

Danny,
Bret Kepner has a tremendous collection of old drag mags; he'd be someone who MIGHT could help you find that one.

That would be Vol. I #1, wouldn't it?

I had it, along with every other issue, but lost them all all in a basement flood in 1979..
Talk about feeling sick....

Re: Pickup bed covers in competition in Stock
 

From an engineering standpoint the beds on later model pickups are designed to create an air bubble to deflect air over the top. Thats how its supposed to work. I don't see those rope tailgates anymore anyway.

Re: Pickup bed covers in competition in Stock
 

I have run a 99 Ford Lightning truck in stock a few times back in 01-02. I ran it at my local track a few times with the tailgate up, then down. It ran a little faster with the tailgate up but I really didn't see any difference in et.
Just for the record, bone stock with a computer chip change, it would run a couple tenths under the index. I bet a real race car version of one of these would be a killer if someone was inclined to race something like that. Of course, raising the supercharger boost would be another discussion.

Re: Pickup bed covers in competition in Stock
 

Thanks, Bill!!! Everything seems to point to less drag: with the tailfate in the "up" position. I think that's pne of those things that doesn't LOOK like it would work, but, it does... Laying it down flat seems to LOOK better, aerodynamically-speaking, but it just doesn't work in the real world.

I appreciate the input!!! :)

Re: Pickup bed covers in competition in Stock
 

There are only a few trucks running in Stock here in Div.6, but I believe they all have bed covers of some sort on them. Couldn`t be for a little extra weight out back, could it?:D

Re: Pickup bed covers in competition in Stock
 

Rory,

Since a certain amount of ballast is legal, wouldn't it be more benefical to add all of it at the very back of the bed, so it would cantilever weight off the front? That way, you'd get more on the rear wheels than you actually added...

I'd guess that the bed covers do good things for the aerodynamics.... but, I'm JUST GUESSING, of course!

Thanks for your thoughts!!!

Re: Pickup bed covers in competition in Stock
 

No, putting the ballast all they way to the end of the bed will not help; it would affect the acceleration.

Regarding the use of the covers, the language used to be in the rulle book in the same fashion as the IHRA book. When the truck classes were added to the general Stock Eliminator population, it was not added.

Re: Pickup bed covers in competition in Stock
 

Sorry I can't help.My earliest SS/DI is June 1965.The rest are hit and miss,mostly 67-69 some 1970' and a few 1980s.


Ed

I'm taking them all to the Dutch.Will give issues to the guys there who were in them.

Re: Pickup bed covers in competition in Stock
 

"When the truck classes were added to the general Stock Eliminator population, it was not added."
Sp, there's nothing in the NHRA rulebook about the legality of these bed covers at all, one way, or another?

You know, the druids have always stood behind a protective shield that went like this: "The rulebook is written in a "positive" manner. What that means is, if a modification is allowed, it will say so in the rulebook. In othe words, if it's not in there, then, it's not allowed."

I think that's no longer the case. They want to make it up as they go along... That gives them infinite flexibility.

Re: Pickup bed covers in competition in Stock
 

Bill, do not take the rule book as if everything has to be engraved in stone. My view on the matter is that I believe it was an oversight on the part of NHRA and they forgot to include it in the rule book. The bed covers have been in the trucks since the class was created.

Re: Pickup bed covers in competition in Stock
 

According to NHRA rule book (BODY)
Alterations or customizing prohibited, " Extent of customizing is limited to paint ONLY".
Later it says Air Dams & Spoilers that were available through manafacturer are permited front & rear.
I dont see how a bed cover could be legal under these rules....

Re: Pickup bed covers in competition in Stock
 

Div VI.

You're probably right; it was most likely an oversight. They don't seem to pay much attention to what goes into the rulebook, for a document that can make or break a race operation. Have you ever noticed the tremendous amount of revisions and corrections that are printed in National Dragster immediately after the new rule books come out, every year? It's humongous...

Some of them are just amazing ("delete 14-inch tires on Stocker, etc...") LOL! Yup; that was in reference to a picture of a Super Stocker on the STOCK page, a couple of years ago... go figure.

They must not proofread anything they put into the new books, or they wouldn't have so MANY changes to put in Dragster. A strange way to run a railroad.... given the critical importance of the wording that makes up that document.

Did they ever say exactly what "crossbreeding" of engine parts means, for example?

Probaby what rhey WANT it to mean, given the circumstances at the time.

I don't trust 'em...

Re: Pickup bed covers in competition in Stock
 

Now this is probably the first of your posts in a month or so I agree with Bill!

Re: Pickup bed covers in competition in Stock
 

Not to get things too complicated, but the 91 Syclone I bought new was equipped from the factory with a bed cover. Wonder if that makes a difference just for those trucks?

Charles Blossom was about the only one I ever saw racing one but I don't remember whether he had the cover or not.

Re: Pickup bed covers in competition in Stock
 

Jim W.,

I'm glad I finally wrote something uyou were comfortable agreeing with.

My original intention with this thread's starter note, was to try to find out some SOLID information about the tailgate "up", or "down" issue to settle an argument I'd been having.

Unfortunately, I didn't make that very clear, and the only information I got was from Bill Howell, who said it ran faster (with the tailgate "up"), but not quicker, which did my argument no good, whatsoever.

If it runs faster, shouldn't it also run at least, SOMEWHAT quicker, considering that all other things were unchanged??? Bill said it didn't, but, I'm wondering if he ignored the change if it were negligible.

I realize that this isn't going to improve the e.t. by much... MAYBE a half a hundredth.... or, even less... It was just for the sake of argument, because I see trucks running both ways, all the time.

I really don't care about the bed cover issue, one way or the other, but I think bed covers might be better, aerodynamically, than an open bed, regardless of the tailgate position.

NHRA doesn't seem to care, either, which is certainly fine with me. Not an issue worth debating, even, I would think. I was just curious...