2009 IHRA Championship Format Announced
 

I'm surprised nobody has posted this yet...or did IHRA just post it and I'm the only one up???

"In 2009, each Nitro Jam national event (and select other events) will become individual tournaments, with the winner of each tournament getting a spot in a select field of racers that will race each other for the world championship at the end of the season. This race, during the World Finals at Rockingham, will crown a national championship as well as the national top 10 in each class. "

Read the full "Open Letter" here:

http://www.ihra.com/article/3597.html

Re: 2009 IHRA Championship Format Announced
 

Here's the problem I see.....A person could potentially NEVER support a divisional event, win one national event & become the WORLD CHAMP! I don't see how that is good for the sport?!

They should ATLEAST implement something that states you have to attend a minimum divisional events within your division just like you have to attend a minimum to claim a division.

Re: 2009 IHRA Championship Format Announced
 

I see what Marc is talking about. When you think about it most NHRA D-1 Super Class guys only run maybe 1 or 2 IHRA races. Epping, Budds Creek and Maybe Pittsburgh depending on when they fall in the schedule compared to NHRA races. So you get an NHRA guy who might just be bored sitting around the house cause there is no races that weekend and say "Heck, I'm going to Budds Creek". He goes to Budds Creek and wins the race and is able to win the world championship. To me something just does not add up for that. I mean you still have to go to Rockingham if you qualify but you race 2 races and can win the world championship. To me where is the loyality to IHRA and the racers who go to all their races. You get someone who supports IHRA 100% goes to 10-15 races per year and maybe dosen't have the best car at all the races but dosen't win a race and he get's kicked out but someone who maybe runs 1 race gets into the world championship hunt. Oh well, I'll just stick to local MASGA races and local NHRA events thats enough for me.

Re: 2009 IHRA Championship Format Announced
 

Hey Guys and Gals

Love IHRA or hate it but these are some very sobering facts !!

"The question they must ask themselves is how good is the current points system when just 47 out of nearly 2,000 racers max their claims? How good is the current points system when only 5 gold card holders (free entry) could afford to go to 5 or more races? "

You have to give them credit for doing something ,,,, and with the way the economy is going / forcasted
sales etc.....for 2009 it may be worst next year with even less racers having the $$ to particpate !!

Just my 2 cents
Colorful Racer

Re: 2009 IHRA Championship Format Announced
 

I agree Eddie. I personally am not a big fan of the existing points structure. As it stands now, "you MUST attend 4 in division events to qualify for any season ending points championship or award program" (as per the rulebook). From there, it's the same as NHRA, best 3 of 5 nationals, and 5 of 8 divisionals. But, how many of us actually have the money to maximize our chances by attending 13 races, let alone hit the minimum 8?

Granted, I'd like to be able to one day say that I was world champ, but unless I win a couple of those national events, that's a losing proposition from a money standpoint, unless I lived in NC ("Yippee, look how dumb I am...I'm the IHRA world champ, and in the end after you subtract my winnings it only cost me about 10 grand to be able to say that!") Now granted, none of us are doing this for the money, but at some point you have to say enough is enough (unless you're independently wealthy, which unfortunately, I am not).

So, from that standpoint, I like the change. But, that said, I'm not really fond of the "win and you're in" philosophy. How about reduce the number of races that you can claim points at? Rather than best 3 of 5 and 5 of 8, how about best 1 of 3 and 3 of 5? With some double and triple events like last year, most racers wouldn't need to travel but more than two or three times (I could have gone to Pittsburgh and Skyview, 12 hours of total round trip road time, and had 1 national and 3 divisional races to my credit).

If IHRA is really enamored with the run-off at the end of the year idea, have all the division winners go to Rockingham and run off for the championship (I personally don't think that the guy that finished 2nd in their respective division should be able to be world champ, so I would not include them in the runoff). The other problem I have with the Rockingham runoff is the travel cost associated with it. For a lot of racers, it would cost more for them to travel to Rockingham than to meet their best 1 of 3 and 3 of 5 race quota. And this change is supposed to be about saving money, right? Though, I'm sure everyone that was in the title hunt would find their way there, one way or the other.

So, I applaud IHRA for making a change, but I'm not sure this is the change I would have made (and with that, I will stop writing before I start getting more hate mail).

Re: 2009 IHRA Championship Format Announced
 

If you notice at the very end of the letter it states that less than a dozen racers contacted IHRA regarding this matter personally I was never notified other than the rumor mill. I feel that they should have contacted the racers for input on this... I don't necessarily disagree with parts of this but I do very strongly agree with what Marc and SG1198 said There should have been a minimum divisional requirement in order to qualify for the race perhaps must be in the top ten in divisional standing or something. I don't understand how it is fair to win the national championship and take the money and pride by winning only one race than the run off.. But it is what it is I guess if we don't like it there is always another rodeo in town.

Re: 2009 IHRA Championship Format Announced
 

I could not agree with Marc more. There needs to be a minimum Divisional requirement. I doubt that it would ever happen, but even the possibility of a person going to 2 National races and being a World Champion should never be on the board. Other than that, the change was probably needed. Getting more input from the racers that travel the circuit all the time would have provided more insight. I did get a survey type email from Scooter, but this subject was not addressed. We still have a place to race and that is the important point. I feel sure this will get tweeked as it moves forward.

Re: 2009 IHRA Championship Format Announced
 

Everyone is complaining about the win1 and could be the champ deal. Everybody has that option. This is the most level playing field ever offered.
I finished 10th in HR last year and only went to 3 nationals. I missed the summit shootout by less than a rd. If I could've went to more nationals I might have finished higher. Who knows. I did win a national and would've been in the shootout. I also finished 3rd in div 2 in SR and would've been in the shootout with that car also. WOULDA COULDA SHOULDA.
I did'nt like the format when I heard the rumors. The more I think about it the more I like it. I can't wait for 2009.
Chip Johnson
HR10
SR23

Re: 2009 IHRA Championship Format Announced
 

Chip- Don't get me wrong. I to believe there was a need for a change based on the currnt state of the economy.

However, I just think like Greg said it needs a little tweak to eliminate the POSIBILITY that someone could POSSIBLY not support there division & by attending one national, win and get the opportunity to be the world champ.

Just my $.02, for whatever that's worth -probaly not much in this econmy :)

Re: 2009 IHRA Championship Format Announced
 

This format would entice me to schedule at least 1 IHRA race minimum next year, If the format is still 2 Divisionals in 1 weekend, I have double shot at getting in the hunt. Epping isnt doable if they keep stacking it on Etown D1 race but I'd do MIR if I had to do at least 1 Nat to qualify.
More racing, less miles, still great competition, the hot setup.

Re: 2009 IHRA Championship Format Announced
 

Exactly Marc. Don't get me wrong. I am not complaining, I think we needed the change and I like the format. A little tweak here and there will make it even better. I also am looking forward to 2009. It will be less miles for me too.

Re: 2009 IHRA Championship Format Announced
 

So go out and win your 1 national and get to the champs race....and if you don't win that one go to another one...and if you don't win that one go to another one....see what their point is...

cbs

Re: 2009 IHRA Championship Format Announced
 

Its kinda a lame format to me but others are way more up at arms about it than me. I just wanna know what happened to the Motor City Nationals and if the divisional races are gone too?

Re: 2009 IHRA Championship Format Announced
 

Bottom line is that this should add car count to events, period. I applaud IHRA for making this change and not just sitting around, content with the way things were, and letting IHRA sportsman racers lose a place to race. I do agree with the statement that there should be a required number of divisionals to attend, and feel this will be addressed. For those stating that they wish IHRA would have gotten more racer input...
R&S Motorsports said "If you notice at the very end of the letter it states that less than a dozen racers contacted IHRA regarding this matter personally I was never notified other than the rumor mill. I feel that they should have contacted the racers for input on this... "
Well, I was contacted a while ago for my input. I was given a copy of the proposed plan to review and offer my comments. Skooter was very open to my opinions and we discussed them on numurous occasions. He even apopted a couple of my suggestions into the final points structure. To say they did this without racer input is not fact.

Re: 2009 IHRA Championship Format Announced
 

i think chip has the right idea, it can only be better.

as far as having a min number of races, or anything else like that, it's time to get over the fact that this isn't some club for the guys that show up all the time. what are you all afraid of? some killer local bracket guy showing up and kicking your behinds? the idea is to have more participation and competition, not try to exclude people because they can't commit to traveling.

this format will put it all on the level like the legend said- go to as many as you want or can afford, or if you are good- just show up and win one.

as for the divisionals- anything that will get people to go is big help. the track owners have been taking a beating, and the pitiful car counts make it look like a joke. yeah! who cares if you win a div race when there are 9 cars in your class? i don't. fri. night bracket race is alot tougher to win than that.

people have to work, pay bills, etc., this format will make it possible to have a life and still race for something big. get over it and get used to it.

Re: 2009 IHRA Championship Format Announced
 

Maybe its just me, but I don't see this increasing car counts above and beyond the level that they're already at. I don't think racers are consciously making the decision to not go to IHRA national events because they don't feel that they have a chance to win the world championship. I think its the standard stuff:

1. Too far / travel expenses too high
2. Entry fees too high
3. Conflicts with another race on the schedule
4. Is an NHRA snob (you've met them, the ones that wouldn't even think of possibly lowering themselves so much that they'd actually attend an IHRA race).
5. Are intimidated

Most of the local racers from a particular track usually use #2 and #5 as their reasons. I know plenty of racers in WNY that would never consider spending $150 for car & driver entry, even if the race was at their local track. Then there are all the local racers that have the perfect car for a particular class, but because they don't run it regularly don't enter. That's probably logical thinking, as their chances of winning are going to be pretty small, and though the stakes go up, their chances don't get any better because the stakes are higher.

Only time will tell, but if car counts go up next year, I think it will be more of a reflection of gas prices and the economy, and will have less to do with the new points structure (though you might pull one or two more people out of the woodwork to each race as they play the lottery).

How about we just do it like boxing? You're the champ, until you get beat, then that person's the champ, and so on and so forth...

Re: 2009 IHRA Championship Format Announced
 

Is it just me or is that a contradicting statement. I couldn't care less about a minimum required number of nationals, but in my opinion there should be a minimum required number of divisionals (like 4). I believe a champion should have to show a little support for the sanctioning body. If a racer wins a national event, by having a required number of division races, he now has to attend some divisionals. Maybe I'm just dumb but to me this could not make any more sense. :confused:

This is the thinking that kicks IHRA right in the groin year after year. I have no idea where you live Gary, so maybe it has something to do with mileage and fuel prices. If not, how can you justify attending a NHRA divisional over an IHRA national, especially being a 10.90 racer, and with the new points format? Even if you win the NHRA divisional ($2500), and the division points ($2000), then qualify for the Jegs allstar and win it($4500), your not winning much more than you could win at the IHRA national ($8-$10,000). At the IHRA national you also can qualify for the championship shootout ($10,000 +cont), the summit allstar ($5,000), and the moser axle race ($22,500). I know some poeple are very loyal to NHRA and have made lots of friends there, and I respect that, it just don't add up to me. IHRA goes out of their way to TRY to appeal to the sportsman racer, and the kicks just keep comin!

Re: 2009 IHRA Championship Format Announced
 

Per my communication w/IHRA, Milan is no longer on the divisional schedule as well as no more MOTOR CITY NATIONALS.......Good thing I renewed the NHRA license........

Re: 2009 IHRA Championship Format Announced
 

"This is the thinking that kicks IHRA right in the groin year after year. I have no idea where you live Gary, so maybe it has something to do with mileage and fuel prices. If not, how can you justify attending a NHRA divisional over an IHRA national, especially being a 10.90 racer, and with the new points format? Even if you win the NHRA divisional ($2500), and the division points ($2000), then qualify for the Jegs allstar and win it($4500), your not winning much more than you could win at the IHRA national ($8-$10,000). At the IHRA national you also can qualify for the championship shootout ($10,000 +cont), the summit allstar ($5,000), and the moser axle race ($22,500). I know some poeple are very loyal to NHRA and have made lots of friends there, and I respect that, it just don't add up to me. IHRA goes out of their way to TRY to appeal to the sportsman racer, and the kicks just keep comin! "

Damien Hazelton
Lucky Dog Racing
2007 IHRA Hot Rod World Champion


Absolutely is the total cost of time & travel, I would rather race against the best at a D1 race which was 2 hrs away than deal with other than Epping at least a 7-12 hr hook. I made the rds this yr putting 10,000 miles on my RV. Of course the year I get the gold card, gas goes thru the roof. But thats over I wanna stay close to home, by the way upstate NY. And what if I said to you its not about the money & I won a National this yr. I'm into easy right now, whats ever easier.

Re: 2009 IHRA Championship Format Announced
 

Damien, I'm not trying to pick a fight, but that doesn't sound like the 100% support for the new system that IHRA quoted you as saying. Honestly, I'm with you on this one, as I think the WORLD CHAMPION should need to do more than win one national event and the Rockingham shootout. Just like I don't believe the drivers that finish 2nd in division points should be invited to the Rockingham shootout. If they didn't win a national event, and they weren't good enough to be better than their division champion, why should they be eligible for the WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP???

Makes no sense to me. But, the way it stands now, the new points structure benefits me, as it was highly unlikely that I ever would have been world champion with the old format as I was never going to go to 5+ IHRA division events. Now, I just need to win my IHRA national event, and I'm going to Rockingham baby!

Re: 2009 IHRA Championship Format Announced
 

How on earth does the fact that I think the new points structure could use some tweaking have anything to do with whether or not I will support it 100%. Support = Participation:confused::confused:
I also don't understand where you are coming from thinking the 2nd place finisher in the division should not be invited to Rockingham. Someone who attends a seasons worth of divisionals and finishes second in their division should be rewarded. Remember, we're trying to help with car counts here. My guess is that your not planning on attending too many divisionals in 09.

Re: 2009 IHRA Championship Format Announced
 

If there are one or two that are close to me and I'm bored that weekend, I might attend. Otherwise, this new structure has pretty much sealed the deal for me to NOT attend IHRA division events. Why should I? Unless I am planning on going to 5 to 8 of them to try to come in 1st or 2nd in the division, its pretty much a waste of my time & money. They cost just as much to attend, yet the payout is a quarter of what national event payout is, winning one doesn't buy me anything from a national championship standpoint, I don't have to attend them in order to have the privledge of attending a national event (i.e. NHRA grade point), and last but not least, media coverage is basically non-existent at these races so it brings little value to my sponsors to attend these races.

But, even if I was I don't believe the person that's 2nd in points in their division should be invited to Rockingham for a chance to win the WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP. Again, if that person wasn't good enough to win the division after a whole year's worth of racing, why should one race (Rockingham) crown that person the WORLD CHAMP??? Doesn't make sense.

And supporting the new system 100% means just that - supporting it ONE HUNDRED PERCENT! If you are saying that the system needs some tweaking, then that means you're not behind it 100%. You may still generally like the new format, maybe 80% or 90%, but not 100%. 100% implies no changes are necessary.

That said, I realize you will support the new structure Damien. You're a racer. You would support it if there was no world championship points structure, just like there isn't in NHRA for S/St. We race because we love to.

Again, this new format does nothing but benefit me, but I still don't feel like somebody that goes out and wins two races, maybe the ONLY IHRA races they attend that year, should be crowned WORLD CHAMP. Make Rockingham the "Race of Champions" by invitation only with national event and division winners. But, crown the WORLD CHAMP the person that has somewhat supported the sanctioning body and put together a body of work, not just one race. It's the same reason why I don't like NHRA's and NASCAR's countdown formats, but at least those are over a SERIES of races, not just one race.

But, hopefully they'll leave it as is so that I don't have to attend any IHRA division events, and can have a legitimate chance at proudly displaying the world championship trophy in my house, even though chances are that if that ever happens, there will probably be somebody else out there more deserving of being called "IHRA World Champ".

Re: 2009 IHRA Championship Format Announced
 

I give ihra credit for trying to make a change,it at least it shows they wanna give everyone a shot to be world champ, i wish they had this structure in 04 h/r1159 s/st 1159

Re: 2009 IHRA Championship Format Announced
 

:confused::confused::confused::confused:
:confused::confused::confused::confused:
I suppose I may have been a little vague with my statement. I do not agree 100% with the format (about 95%), but I will support it 100%. So I guess that makes it like 97.75691% is that better? By the way Jason, the top 3 in each division make it to Rockingham, not 2.

Re: 2009 IHRA Championship Format Announced
 

Damien- you must be VERY VERY specific when dealing with Jason. You know how those engineers can be.

Re: 2009 IHRA Championship Format Announced
 

Touche! OK, 97.75691% it is. :p

Really, top 3? Huh, I must have missed that. I thought it was top 2. OK, now its even dumber.

Re: 2009 IHRA Championship Format Announced
 

Wow! I guess everyone has there own opinion.

Re: 2009 IHRA Championship Format Announced
 

You got that right!!

Thanks for the info Marc. I'll remember that! :D

Re: 2009 IHRA Championship Format Announced
 

Jason O. Didnt know you were an engineer. What scale is your railroad N or HO

Re: 2009 IHRA Championship Format Announced
 

The new format does not work well for the people who used to travel to all the races and support IHRA to the fullest. It takes away that advantage. But some will still do it. It frees up others to travel and run other venues like NHRA a little more since no commitment is required to nationals.
I sent Skooter three pages of reasons I thought this was not good. He posted my first three lines where I said I understood the need for a change and would support it even though I disagreed with it. Maybe he did the same thing to Damien and you only saw his positive comments. It makes it look like I am all for it also but I was very vocal against it when asked about it months ago.
Anyway it is what it is and now I will try to make it work for me. I hope everyone else does the same. IHRA may not makes the right moves but they are moving and listening. He did fix a few of the things I complained about so I know he heard me anyway. This will forever change the World champion enigma in a negative way though.

Steve Furr - Who cares which santioning body is in town, just support a place for us all to race.

Re: 2009 IHRA Championship Format Announced
 

Well said Steve.

N or HO. Pfffffffft. All aboard!

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi.../Livesteam.jpg

Re: 2009 IHRA Championship Format Announced
 

Skooter knows I have a couple of issues with the format, but I don't think it's possible to make it perfect for everyone. When I first read the proposed plan I was very much against everything about it. Then I read their reason behind doing it, and it made a lot of sense that a change is needed. Then Skooter adopted a few of my suggestions as well as others suggestions and made it a lot better. You have to give it to the IHRA, they are trying to make IHRA a better and, more importantly, perminant place to race. Being one of the racers who travels it does kinda suck, but I'm over it, it's time to move on. You have to look at the future of the sport and the fact that this should get more car to the track.

Re: 2009 IHRA Championship Format Announced
 

The new format needs some adjustments ,I dont think going to one national and winning should give you the right to be eligable for world champ, TRY THIS to be eligable you must attend 4 in division races and finish in the top 3 in your division .or win a national event and attend 4 in division races no matter where you finish in your division to qualify you for the chance to run for the championship . Just my 2 cents

Re: 2009 IHRA Championship Format Announced
 

I agree with the idea of having to race a min # of div races that would help with car counts at divisionals .one question i have is what happens if someone wins more than 1 national and finishes in the top 3 in the div ,will this be all open spots in the 33 car race in rockingham since you can only qulify once.

Re: 2009 IHRA Championship Format Announced
 

Yes, those spots will be open/byes

Re: 2009 IHRA Championship Format Announced
 

I can see that as being a downfall.

Re: 2009 IHRA Championship Format Announced
 

I may be wrong, but I don't think they will be byes, just less spots on the ladder. I think the ladder will be made up according to the number of cars in the race( I think). Also, all division champs have a first round bye.

Re: 2009 IHRA Championship Format Announced
 

That would make more sense. It's kinda vague they way it reads in the "open letter"

Re: 2009 IHRA Championship Format Announced
 

Jason - a large number of World Champions have earned their title without winning their Division. There were about 8 such cases from 2003-2006 alone.

Re: 2009 IHRA Championship Format Announced
 

Mike,

Under the previous format I am fine with that because the WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP was based on your national score from multiple races from both the national and divisional level. With the new format, I am not because the person that finishes 3rd in the division could be somebody that never even went to a NATIONAL event (where theoretically the best of the best compete) or didn't do well enough to earn a spot in Rockingham

If the person NEVER raced out of their division, AND WASN'T good enough to win their division outright, why should that person have the right to race for the WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP?!!?!? I can't think of a single sport where this would hold true.

Heck, even in high school sports you must first win the sectional championship before you advance to the state championship. They don't invite those teams that finish 2nd and 3rd.

The way it stands now it benefits me, but you'll NEVER convince me that the 2nd and 3rd place finishers in a division should be invited to race for the WORLD championship. That said, if I'm ever in that position (which is unlikely because I don't ever see me racing the required number of IHRA division events to finish in the top 3), I won't turn down my invite! :D