Doing an NFL on the NHRA Divisions...
 

Fellow racers, I'm putting this out here to see what you all think about restructuring the geographic base of the current divisional set-up to see how you all feel about adding/deleting a state (or states) to your current divisional layout, so that we could reduce in some divisions (mainly Div.'s 5,6,&7), the 800 + mile tows for divisional races? Let's talk about it, ok? With all due respect to our Canadian neighbors, the vast majority of all class racers come from the U.S.A., Yet some divisions have points races that are in excess of 800 miles from other divisional races (examples; Tucson from Sonoma, Denver from Brainerd, and Eagle Point, Or. to Acton, Mt.). I have some ideas:

1. Division 7 could release Sonoma, Ca., and it's races to Div. 6.

2. Division 6 could release Acton, Mt., to Div 5.

3. Division 5 could release the states of Mn., Ia, Wi., Mo, and western IL. to Div. 3.

4. Division 3 could release Oh. to Div. 1.

5. The Canadian provinces that are directly below Div.'s 1,3,5, & 6 would fall in to those US division's.

What I'm trying to do here is level out the amount of towing those of us in the lower 48 have to do to partake in our home divisions races---I know that it would cause an increase of travel for you Div. 1 racers, however you guys (at least the lower 48 staters), have by far the best towing proximities of all the divisions---Div.s 2,3, & 4 you guys are worse off than them, but better off than Div.'s 5,6,& 7? With the recent fuel prices as they were (and could become again), how about it racers...it seems to have worked out for the N.F.L. (remember when the Atlanta Falcons were considered an NFC West team???).

What do you guys/gals think??? Especially any of you with connections to NHRA? Thanks for your thoughts...

Re: Doing an NFL on the NHRA Divisions...
 

I made the previous post, in no small part to the fact that Cruz Pedregon (at least twice) credited NHRA's instilling a playoff system to their former system, as being the sole reason he was able to out-point Tim Wilkerson for the Funny Car Championship. The way I see it, if the NFL's going to; a. restructure the divisional layout of their teams, and b. add two new divisions to the allotment, then why can't the NHRA at least have one of those done for our divisional racers benefit. Perhaps now could be a good time to ponder a Division "8"? It could be positioned somewhere between Div's 5, 6, & 7, and allow divisional racers on the western half of the country to enjoy the same perks as the eastern racers enjoy---less time towing means more time racing!!! Either this, or my first post, because this idea could even make div's 2-4 smaller as well...that my .02 worth....

Gary

Re: Doing an NFL on the NHRA Divisions...
 

As much as I`d like to see something like this emplemented,at least in Division 5 there`s most likely a problem,available tracks. There`s not many facilities in Division 5 that can handle a LODRS,"qualify" to be eligible or even want a Division race. About 10 years ago I think it would cost the track about $10K to host a Points meet,and I`m sure it hasn`t gone down since then,so that could be a factor as well. Most of the tracks that hosted Division Points races back in the mid to late 90`s when I was doing a lot of traveling,are down to Nat`l Opens or bracket race only. The little tracks out here just don`t host the events anymore. Basically,if you want to run for a Division title in the Lucas Oil series,you`re gonna have to spend a lot of money in fuel or gas out here.

Re: Doing an NFL on the NHRA Divisions...
 

Or if you REALLY want to race,move to Div 1 or 3.No excuses then,except
1) Can't get time off
2) Too hot in July and August
3) This track,that track sucks
Actually the only excuse that wouldn't hold water is "I can't afford to tow 500 miles one way to race.
Just an observation of reading posts here over the past few years.We're like every other segment of life,
some wont be happy unless they're unhappy.

Ed F.

Re: Doing an NFL on the NHRA Divisions...
 

Also, move NC to division 1 so we could possibly get a national open or divisional race in Charlotte!

Re: Doing an NFL on the NHRA Divisions...
 

Maybe NHRA could show some leadership and take a percentage of the gate for points races instead of an up front fee. Hard times mean things change. I hope to have my superstock car finished in time to compete some next year and I will not take long tows just to bracket race.

Re: Doing an NFL on the NHRA Divisions...
 

Gary, I have to agree with Ed. There are far more races on the east coast with alot less travel. But I am not sure I want to give up palm trees, white sandy beaches, swimming in the ocean in the winter. Too hot in July, questionable to humid diffently in noo joisey.

Re: Doing an NFL on the NHRA Divisions...
 

I still the double race concept is the one financially the best. One tow, two races at one location then home.
It can be done many ways. Week off work?and run them all OR ,1/2 the classes per event then rotate other 1/2 next event location run them twice. Keeps the race tracks used the same amount just 1/2 the towing
I think the move to Div 1 or 3 ( maybe 2 also) is even better. Gets more people out of the really good weather and locations to a standard, Hot Sweaty midwest in summer. Keep the west and South for vacations with the kids....In winter...

Re: Doing an NFL on the NHRA Divisions...
 

Putting Ohio in Division 1 will make it even harder to win a divisional championship in D1. Think about the percentage of the country's population who would then be in D1. Currently (latest figures from Census as of 7/1/2007) 23.43 percent of the country's population lives in D1; adding Ohio would raise that to 27.23 percent of the population. This includes the District of Columbia. I'll let Nitro Joe determine the percentage of the racers in each class live in Each-I suspect he might be able to do that, or at least come close-although it is a lot harder to do that computation than what I did..

Re: Doing an NFL on the NHRA Divisions...
 

Leave D-1 and D-3 out of ANY changes. Everything is fine here. You want to be part of great Stock/SS racing, move to this part of the country and race happily ever after.

Division 1 home of the 2008 NHRA Stock World Champion, Lee Zane
Division 3 home of the 2008 NHRA SS World Champion, Ricky Decker


The way its said back here......WE DON'T NEED NO STINKING CHANGES!

Re: Doing an NFL on the NHRA Divisions...
 

If we are gonna fix anything fix the situation with categories being bumped from the national event schedule.

Re: Doing an NFL on the NHRA Divisions...
 

First let me thank all of you who read my thoughts, and secondly those of you who replied back to them. Please know that I didn't do this because it would only benefit me, I did it as an idea for all racers who have to endure long tows to divisional races due to their meager divisional track selections (Hawk), per their geographic locale. Not many of us have the budget to travel as "fletch", Biondo, Zane, and Faul do, so we're limited to what's closest to us. Nor, do we have the time from work, or the budget (Ed & Dick), to enjoy numerous weeks off from work for racing purposes. Furthermore, not all national events have divisional races one week later (i.e. the Mile High Nats., and the 'Vegas Nats #1, or Stock in the #2 race).

I came up with this idea because you eastern racers have it easier (especially Div. 1), because you probably have just 250 miles (at the most, but probably less) separating your furthest events from each other. While you in Div. 3 are probably second closest to your extremes (Stanton, Mi., to Bowling Green, Ky.). I don't mention Div.'s 2 & 4, because they are about right for geographics, which is where div's 5,6,&7 should be...perhaps we should do an N.F.L. by creating a div. 8? My point is why should some divisional racers have to travel 2-3x's as far as others for the same purpose...I don't see much fairness in that, and for those of you who feel like "Ed" does, I guess you don't mind having to spend excess money, and take excess time from your customers (or work), because since you can only claim points from two non-home divisional races, then you have to travel to your home divisions extremes even if they're; 895 miles (Tucson, Az., to Sonoma, Ca), 930 miles Woodburn, Or., to Acton, Mt., or the worst...Denver, Co., to Brainerd, Mn. "1,036" miles!!! Have you guys asked Mike Tueffel, Kevin Helms, or John Mason not to mention me, why we left Colorado? There's your answer! However, we shouldn't have had to do that so we could chase our desires of "less tow time, more race time", or less money spent on tow fuel, more money to spend on other racing expenses.

Lane, yes the western half of the country does have a lack of available tracks, but if the trend of championship chasing racers to densely populated divisions continues, then the revenues that they once offered their former tracks will cause those tracks to go the way of the dinosaur before long (at least their events), and those eastern racers looking for western divisionals to enjoy prior to national events won't have them anymore...is that right? Is that fair? Sad state of America if we no longer care for the masses anymore, but care more for our own...I thought we were the United States of America not the United Divisions of certain parts of America....

I put this out here as an idea of thought, over an issue that has merit to it. If any of you who read this has a better idea, then lets here it, because the NFL did it and thanks to that no longer are the Atlanta Falcons traveling to San Francisco for a (in) divisional game, when only one state separates them from the Atlantic Ocean! What's fair for one should be fair for all (divisions that is)!

Re: Doing an NFL on the NHRA Divisions...
 

I think we'd all like less towing to the races. It was nice when we had 7 Div races and had an option of which ones to go to. I think the tracks that can get the fan turnout should be given the opportunity to host 2 Div races.

I agree with what John said about NHRA getting a percentage or somehow make it more profitable for the host track. Maybe then we might have more tracks wanting to host a Div race.

Re: Doing an NFL on the NHRA Divisions...
 

I dont know what you read into my post but let me give you the real story.You compared my situation with Dick Butler.Dick is a doctor,who at some time raced multiple cars and had a stacker.When I started racing Stock (1999) I worked for Con Edison in NY.At the time I had 1 year to go till retirement.I would have liked to have run Stock earlier in my life but my job and budget ruled that out.You know real life got in the way.I'm sure Dick 's accomodations were much better than mine.I have a gigantic 22' enclosed that I stay in at the track.The car stays out and I utilise it as living quarters.I'm not complaining,I have a bed ,sink w/8 gal tank,3500 and 1000 watt gens.heat,fan for hot nights,shower setup and sanitary facilities.Not a Renagade but it suits me.The point is when I started out in 1999 I didn't thinkthat it wasn't fair that others had motor homes,stackers etc. etc. I just did what I had to do to go racing.
Right now due to circumstances i'm out of a retirement job.If things dont get better I'll just sit out 2009,
just like I did in 2004.People should just stop the level the playing field bull**** and just race within their means.If people feel they cant race enough because of where they live they have 3 choices,move,live with it,hit the lotto.


Ed F.

Re: Doing an NFL on the NHRA Divisions...
 

ED it might be easier to hit the lotto than win a race,I am sorry about your retirement this economy might throw a big curve ball to alot of good hard working people.

Re: Doing an NFL on the NHRA Divisions...
 

There's no question that if you live West of the Mississippi River the dragstrips are fewer in number and many more miles apart. But, you can do all the divisional realignment in the world and it's not going to move any starting line closer to your home. Acton's already drawing as many D5 racers as D6 racers and it's still a major tow for most racers from both Div's. Same thing for Medford, pretty large percentage of Div 7 racers of the total entered. Same holds true for Woodburn. It's customary for the announcer to play up the rivalry between 6 & 7 in the later rounds. In any event, can't you claim 1 or 2 out of division races if you want?

Compared to Div4 and Div5, racers in the East do have it much better in terms of choice. Especially if you add both sanctioning bodies together.

One other consideration is the HUGE amount of land in the West that is public land; BLM, U.S. Forest Svc., etc. That means WE THE PEOPLE own it. However, I'm pretty sure the new, incoming, Eco-friendly administration has no plans to construct any dragstrips on any public land. That would just piss-off you guys in the East anyway (they would all be factored tracks). Not to mention all our tree-huggin', Spotted Owl and snail darter lovin' neighbors.

I haven't done the math, but I'm pretty sure it would still be cheaper to tow 2 or 3 hundred miles farther on average, than it would be to sell your home and move to a part of the country with a higher concentration of dragstrips. It's a trade-off.

Re: Doing an NFL on the NHRA Divisions...
 

How about a totally new concept???

If you want to do it right and restructure then get rid of the vehicles that don't compete for LODRS Championships at LODRS events.

Such as:

TOP DRAGSTER

TOP SPORTSMAN

SPORTMAN MOTORCYLES

TOP FUEL HARLEY???

They have a place to race and it's not LODRS events.

The West Coast events are so loaded up with these non-class vehicles that the real vehicles that compete for points have a difficult time in getting runs.

They converted the LODRS Division 7-7 at Las Vegas race from 4 days to 3 days and gave Stock & Super Stock 2 qualifying hits. Oh yes and by the way a test & tune session was substituted for the 4th day and 2 test & tune runs sold for $100

Shame on you NHRA.

Bob

Re: Doing an NFL on the NHRA Divisions...
 

I believe NHRA is about to get that reality check.
I was at the Pamona Finals and there were some real nasty comments from some of the Pro's during interviews over the loud speaker about NHRA's lack of leadership. They were cut early but if you knew what was going on you could read between the lines of what was not allowed over the speakers.
Also, rumor was almost half of the manufactures midway vendors would not be back for next year due to the economy.
GM is totally gone from the vehicle sponsorship, midway, and Warren Johnson's sponsorship.
There are 8 national events yet to have corporate sponsorship for 2009 so reality may be coming home to roost.
If things with the economy does not improve the NHRA show for 2009 may not be nearly the same as the past.
My 2 Cents

Re: Doing an NFL on the NHRA Divisions...
 

I couldn't agree more!

Re: Doing an NFL on the NHRA Divisions...
 

Sounds like the sportsman racers may become a little more important as both sanctioning bodies will rely on the "back gate" once again for profits. There may be more pit space as the pro's will park it before they race out of their own pocket, unlike sportsman racers who do it because we love it. Who knows...they may be running all sportsman classes w/ no quota before you know it!

Re: Doing an NFL on the NHRA Divisions...
 

Thanks Ken,

I don't know about your trade-off theory, because if it were only 2-3 hundred miles farther on avg, then I wouldn't have brought up this topic...especially since under the current format you can only claim two out-of-division points races for your chosen divisions totals. Let's say you live in Denver, Co. and you are chasing points...why not be able to replace the eastern Div. 5 races with truly the next closest races to your home; Las Vegas (750), Acton, Mt. (525), and Noble, Ok (630). Still long tows, but not nearly as bad as having to go out to either Earlville, Ia. (900+), Cordova, Il (900+), or Brainerd, Mn (1050+), and that's just one way!!! Perhaps if NHRA would allow a racer to pick their division, but race at any divisions races they so choose, then that would help level the field a bit, however moving isn't the answer. When the divisional layout as we know it was made, it took into account the inclusion of Canada's provinces. However, as the decades have changed, so has the involvement of Canadian tracks (with the lone exception of Mission, Bc.). Thus the once averaged sized Div's 5,6, & 7 compared to Div's 1 & 3, became overbloated. Therefore, when you look at the Divisional layout (and only focus on the lower 48 states), you'll see the enormous discrepency of the east compared to the west---and for those of you who don't like my thoughts, I challenge you to come out here, live in our shoes and try to do what you've done out there as easily & inexpensively as you do out there (only ground travel, no air travel to all of your races)...it won't happen...again just ask Kevin Helms, or Mike Tueffel the next time you see them...

Oh and another thing, I did the math and for the five division 7 races I traveled to, I traveled 1,353 miles (one way). If I lived in Philly, and raced Div. one, I could've gone to all seven of their races with 634 miles to spare! If I lived in Columbus, Oh. that mileage would've gotten me to all of div three's races with 42 miles to spare. Now, if however I lived in Denver, Co. that mileage would've only gotten me to Bandimere Speedway, Great Bend, Topeka, and half-way to Noble, Ok's divisional---what's fair about that???

Steve & 63 Corvette: I hope NHRA does get a reality check, however I'm concerned that with the funds taken from those lost sponsors, they'll be coming back to us with even higher entry fees (as if they haven't gone up enough these last two years!!!

Ed: I'm sorry for your retirement situation, however my thoughts are not BS. If you walked in our shoes you'd find yourself going to much fewer races (at least on this level), than you get to do there. I shouldn't have to trade in my warmer nicer winter weather just so I can be close to more racing facilities...If NHRA would've focused on the lower 48 in the first place (instead of Canada & Mexico too), then the parity would've been done years ago. I know of some racers who gave up class racing because they got tired of the long tows and felt that NHRA didn't care about their thoughts like mine, so I'm speaking for them and others like us.

Re: Doing an NFL on the NHRA Divisions...
 

Actually, I think you can name your division. New Yorker Dan Fletcher raced as a Division 7 comp guy this year and I think Peter Biondo claimed div. 2 in either Stock or SS a few years back. I believe you just have to claim which division at your first race.

Re: Doing an NFL on the NHRA Divisions...
 

Show me ANYWHERE it is written that life is fair.If i lived in the areas of Div. 4/5/6/7 I probably wouldn't be racing in NHRA class racing,plain and simple.Some people have it and some people dont.Maybe you would be happy if 1/2 of our tracks closed up and our travel milage would double or triple.That's leveling the play field in your mind I guess.Face facts, unless you have money coming out of your *** you live in a ****ty place if you want to chase points The housing market is pretty weak now,houses are going cheap.
you can use the money you'll save for plenty of long johns and electric socks and I'm sure you can find an indoor job to stay warm in our arctic winters.

Ed F.

Re: Doing an NFL on the NHRA Divisions...
 

Tracy, that would definitely make me smile, because when I go to national events, I'll race Stock, however I'll watch Super Stock--something about those Darts, Cuda's, and other wheel standing entries!

Re: Doing an NFL on the NHRA Divisions...
 

Thanks but no thanks Ed, I left Colorado to get away from needing stuff like that...it's funny that people from Div's 1-3-5 (most notibly the latter two) come out here to the valley of the sun to get away from that kind of frosty cold "stuff" (I wasn't raised to use such words as you did, sorry). No, I wouldn't want half of your tracks to close (you missed my point for thinking that), because a few of them I hope/pray to someday acquire the funds needed to race at...because of their history within the NHRA.

A new Idea I have (that might even get respect from you Ed), is that NHRA either expand the out of division races one could claim to 3 (instead of the current two), or allow national open races to become points earning races too---they should do this given that in some places the events charge the racers the same entry fees as regular divisionals.

Now how do you feel about that idea Ed???

Re: Doing an NFL on the NHRA Divisions...
 

You cant change the fact that if you live in the middle of nowhere(racing wise) travel is going to kill you if you're on a budget.That's the whole basic fact that this thread is about.If you think it's not so then just pack your bags and move to Disneyland into the Fantasyland area of the park.Enough,I'm done.

Ed F.

I'm sorry if my use of the word **** offends your moral fiber.Maybe you should have gone into the ministry.

Re: Doing an NFL on the NHRA Divisions...
 

You're funny Ed, and I even gave you kudos in another segment of this site (about Mike Meier & his Spirit), and your car as well. Ministry?? Not my calling in life, but I wish you would've responded to my latest idea...maybe that was your response, I duno...

Unless any of you other racers have thoughts to share as well, them I'm done with this too, however I hope at least my latest two idea's will be given a serious look by those of you who have connections with NHRA???

Re: Doing an NFL on the NHRA Divisions...
 

Gary;
If chasing points are that important then including opens in the points series will cut down some travel,but I bet it wont change things for the guys who are low budget.(0% of us race with the reaqlization that we wont make it to the top 10 in national points.Top 10 in the division usually requires 7 to 8 divisionals.I got lucky and made it to #5 and #7 in div.1.the other 6 years I was cannon fodder for the regulars.(I sat out 2004,lack of funds).And it's getting harder every year to place with the quality of racers out there.Like I've said 100 times before,life never was,isn't now and never will be fair.Some will always have the upper hand.Cant make it any plainer than that.

Ed

Re: Doing an NFL on the NHRA Divisions...
 

Well Said Ed, but I'll give you two examples of Div V racers that (based on what we all can see just by checking out the points standings), would be helped if NHRA would decide to allow national open races to count as divisionals:

1. Randy Hyman...He earned 40 pts and finished 105th out of 146 Div. V stock racers. If Bandimere Speedways "Night of Fire & Thunder" race which is a national open counted for points, and he repeated that 2nd rnd finish, he would've leap frogged up to 64th place. His tow would be 24 to 34 miles (round trip! It would be like he was in your Division???)! and if he could tow the approx. 120 miles from his Lakewood, Co. home to Pueblo, Co (125 miles, maybe), then he'd have 3 divisional points counting races w/o having to leave Colorado...kind of sounds like Nj., Oh, or Tx. to me??? On top of that he would've vaulted past Bob Gipson to finish 39th in Div. V with less than 300 miles covering those three races (round trip). A better finish at any of those races and he would've been a player in his divisions points chase.

2. Steve Hagberg...He earned 330 points, and finished 4th officially (but is tied for 2nd also in Div. V). With those same races in mind he would've saved nearly 2000 miles worth of driving, the fuel expense, and the extra time involved could he have replaced his Earlville, Ia. with the Kearney, Ne. open, plus his Noble, Ok race with either Pueblo, Co., or Pierre, Sd.'s opens. Finally he could've replaced his Las Vegas divisional with the Bandimere national open (that would've been a 675 mile one-way alone savings!!!).

Thus my initial purpose for this thread...there are solutions out there (and every little bit would help), question is will NHRA hear to any of them? I remember reading last season that some facet of the NHRA was going to be the supporter of us the sportsman racers "THE BACK BONE OF THE NHRA"...well I was born in Missouri (THE SHOW ME STATE), so ok NHRA, don't just show me, SHOW US!!!

HAVE A GREAT AND SAFE THANKSGIVING, CHRISTMAS, & A SUCCESSFUL 2009 ED!