Takin control of our own destiny.
 

I think the time is right for sportsman racers to take control of our own destiny. Yesterday I spoke with someone who works for NHRA and according to him the condition of the organization is similar to the big 3 automakers. It's possible NHRA could not survive. What happens to us if this happens? Years of taking all the profit out of the company in huge salaries for top management and members of the board of directors leaves no cushion when times get tough.

The beginnings of local and regional groups are popping up as NHRA becomes less relevant and more arrogant toward sportsman racers. Some of us are lucky enough to have places to race outside NHRA, but others aren't. What I think might work is a group of local and regional groups to put on and promote sportsman racing loosely banded together Nationally by the same rules and with the possibility of having a couple of National races. In Kentucky we are fortunate to have combo races at Ohio Valley and Bowling Green on a regular basis, usually about 10 a year combined. This could be the start of a regional group consisting of KY, IN, OH, and TN. Other groups are already out there including the one in GA and FL and the one proposed for the Carolinas. And don't forget Dave Ley's group in the north east.

There would be a lot of things to iron out including rules, tech, what type cars get to race, i.e. .90 cars, comp, top sportsman, top dragster etc. We would have to get track operators involved and probably try and find sponsors. I don't have all the answers, I just wanted to start the thread to see what everyone thought.

Greg

Re: Takin control of our own destiny.
 

I personally LIKE the idea.

Re: Takin control of our own destiny.
 

why don't you try they ?



wttp://www.adrl.us/

Re: Takin control of our own destiny.
 

I like it. Getting some key track owners involved would be important. We can race without NHRA, it gets more difficult if we don't have a track to run on. Most local track owners are looking for opportunity as well.

Re: Takin control of our own destiny.
 

http://www.fasteststreetcar.com/

or them !

Re: Takin control of our own destiny.
 

Greg,
There is no doubt the idea has a lot of merit. I know a lot of people were already planning to stay close to home more this year when fuel prices got out of control last year. While fuel prices have come down, the economy isn't doing all that well, and it may have much the same effect.

Re: Takin control of our own destiny.
 

Greg,
I agree. Matter of fact, I was really thinking about running only the combo races and maybe traveling down south for a vacation and race with them once or twice.
Might race a few of the Super Chevy meets also.
I'm really tired of NHRA's bs and they don't have the only playground.

Re: Takin control of our own destiny.
 

I know it's not "NHRA " but why don't you guys try a little IHRA. We would be glad to have you. There may be classes you don't like . So be it ,you don't have to run that class. If you don't like something ,all you have to do is e-mail or call someone. I personally cannot change the rules , but i will listen and forward any suggestions or complaints.We are not NHRA, But we are not trying to be. Heck , it is a place to race the classes you like to race and then some.With the cut back on some of the pro classes this coming season , you may even get to make a few more passes or not have as much down time.Try it you may like it . If not give a reason why so we would at least know what turned you away . It may be something we can do to make it better. If you are or not a newby to IHRA,please come by tech and say hello and meet some of the other tech guys. Most of them have been or still are racers.I love class racing and hate to see it going in this direction. We need to support it any way we can to keep it alive. You did not see IHRA cut any sportsman classes for the 09 season. This is how it all got started in the first place . Just another comment from a racer/tech person who does care.!!!! Hope to see you at a few races this year.. PS- thanks for reading this post.

Re: Takin control of our own destiny.
 

Greg:

Call me. 501-767-4777

Re: Takin control of our own destiny.
 

Danny, as a racer who races both IHRA and NHRA I think one thing IHRA needs to do is pay more attention to the racing surface at their events! By this, I mean at both points races and national events! My car never spins the tires, anywhere, but every year I blow them off at least once at Rockingham...at the national event!!

Another is they have way too many eliminators running at national events. I know we've covered that topic before, but it's a fact. You go to a national event and make 2 runs your first day, then won't make another run until possibly the next evening or go into Sunday not even running 1st round!!! Imagine if they got 80-100 cars per eliminator???? They'd be racing till Tuesday!!

That is why a lot of racers don't go to these races......I'm sure their are more! Now their points races are a well-kept secret. 15-20 cars running for about $5 grand......u can't beat that!

Re: Takin control of our own destiny.
 

Why do they race 1/8 mile at 1/4 mile tracks? I know some of the tracks are marginal for the faster cars but can't you just have those eliminators run 1/8 mile? There is no reason stock/superstock can't tun 1/4 mile at Thompson and Pittsburgh.

Re: Takin control of our own destiny.
 

Everyday someone on this site voices the same basic opinion - it is time for a choice. As you know in the last few years my wife and I have traveled coast to coast running National events and are quite frankly tired of the way Sportsman are treated. Greg, you would be a great person to head up something like this and I believe that you will get more support that you think. We all know that Division 3 divisionals get one of the largest turnouts in the organization. Several years ago, Lisa and I actually managed a small local IHRA track for a few years so we have some basic knowledge of track operations that might be helpful. I recently semi-retired and would love to help get something like this off the ground. There are a large number of racers who obviously agree with you and if we could get some sort of unity and direction I think this could actually work. Call me 419-564-2620 Buck

Re: Takin control of our own destiny.
 

Lets do it Buck, you know i know what to do.

Re: Takin control of our own destiny.
 

I agree on too many classes running .That is why i mentioned the fact of no more Nitro funny cars or Alcohol funny cars. This alone will create more run time at a quicker pace. Remember , we start on Friday instead of Thursday, so we lose a day from the very beginning.The weather has a lot to do with the track surface at Rockingham,. If i could come up with a formula for that surface i would not never have to work anymore! lol. Thanks for your input on my post . Keep em coming and soon the higher -ups will be looking . IHRA classes= H/R ,S/R, Q/R, STOCK, SUPER STOCK, T/S, T/D, That's 7 sportsman classes. Not sure with NHRA, but i think there is more with alky dragsters and alky funnys and comp. Extra day would mean a lot but the economy won't allow that. !! I have been to a few NHRA events and they have a whole lot more help than we do.(that makes a diff too )

Re: Takin control of our own destiny.
 

ss, Here in NC most of the tracks used to be1/4 mile but speeds have overgrown most of them. You may see some of these tracks test and tune with 1/4 mile ,but a lot of race cars cannot make this length. Mostly street cars are running the 1/4 at these tracks. It has just been adopted to run 1/8 at these tracks in this area . I love 1/4 mile racing ,but in most of these tracks it would be a hardship on a racer that may get in trouble with not enough stopping area ,. Now Rockingham & Darlington could surley run 1/4 mile div races ( in my opinion). When in Pittsburg last year at the triple IHRA race there were issues of stopping at top end on some of the faster classes. One t/s car crashes twice ,the second time not so lucky. Several cars went long . This is more of a safety issue than time and money .Sorry but that is out of my control to change . At least so far IHRA is still running full 1/4 mile National events.

Re: Takin control of our own destiny.
 

I used to hate Rockingham, too, but after I moved to NC and raced there a lot, I've figured the place out. At their bracket races, the track is really quite good, but the vast majority of the cars are parked either on the asphalt or up front. When we get into issues is at Nationals where the Sportsman cars are parked in the back 9 where it's very sandy. Racers have to learn to keep their wheel wells and rocker panels clean. You'd be surprised at how many launch photos you see with sand or pebbles pouring out of the rocker panels in front of the slicks, and I'm sure those racers would spin and scream, "This track sucks!" It's not enough for you to keep your own stuff clean. EVERY SINGLE racer has to maintain their stuff every pass. I see VERY few drivers paying attention to that detail in the lanes. Sand is particularly nasty, because it's so small it gets ground into the track rubber & VHT... not as easy as blowing off larger pebbles. I've seen it get ugly there, and just stage WAY outside the groove, and the car would hook like a bear. "The Rock" and I get along now, and I even won the track championship there in '07.


In regards to the original post: yes, I see an opportunity for something beyond local S/SS Combo races, and I don't think it necessarily needs to be run in conjunction with an existing series. See the "What if...?" thread.

Re: Takin control of our own destiny.
 

Not too many IHRA tracks in the west.

Re: Takin control of our own destiny.
 

I was going to make a post on the other thread on this subject, but it looks like Greg touched on my subject matter, so I'll make it here.

What needs to be done ,for now, is support the independent S/SS races and combos throughout the country.
We have a S/SS combo at our nostalgia races twice a year. There are about 40-50 class cars in Az alone. We typically get about 15 of them for our deal . Some of the guys who never show,are usually seen at Boise or Sonoma a few weeks later, pursuing national records or the Wally deal. Only reason I keep having these deals as part of our races,is because I want to, and I get alot of positive compliments from the locals.They never get to see this type of racing locally anymore. I surely don't do it for the profit,b ecause there's not alot there.
I'm afraid that The US Class Nationals was a one shot ,one time deal. It was the Woodstock of class racing. It was the coolest race I've ever been to, and also the hottest!
But you didn't see Alex rushing to put on a second race the following year. He's an enterpreneur and a hustling, hard working guy. If he could make a nice living from these type races, I'm sure he would.

Before we talk about a new series of races,we have to run some numbers. I've got a pretty good deal with Speedworld.We collect $100 lane fee ,which is paid back 100% The track charges $25 for a tech card. I get a smaller % of that ,and they ,of course get the larger.
Now ,the racer is in the gates for $125.slightly less than a divisional race.
Let's say we get 100 cars ,instead of the usual 15. Now we have 10K to pay out.
Nobody wants to race 7 rounds without round money, or a winner takes all situation .
So, realistically ,the winner would get about 4-5 grand. Alot better than a points meet,but nowhere near a Nat'l event payout.
So now you need contingency sponsors tot get where you need to be. Someone has to solicit these awards, collect then ,or see that they get paid out. A fulltime job for someone right there. The promoter has to make it worth his while, in what would be another position in the "association".
We haven't even gotten to tech personnel, rules making people , staff, logistics for all of this.
That brings us to membership fees or dues. Another fulltime job for someone.
As soon as a few people start making a living off this new association, that' s when the complaints and whining will start, ..if not long before that.
I would love to hear some real ideas how to go about all this.
Meanwhile, we need to support the independent races
That's how I see it

Re: Takin control of our own destiny.
 

I give up. You guys have a great season regardless were you race at and be safe and have fun, Iknow i will .

Re: Takin control of our own destiny.
 

Greg,

I agree with you and will help in any way I can.

Re: Takin control of our own destiny.
 

Does that include heads up run during Elimnations?

I know at previous events you have organized that same class cars have not ran heads up in eliminations but dialed in instead. Alot of class racers I know would not go for that!

Re: Takin control of our own destiny.
 

If NHRA is in such bad shape couldn't the loss of Stock and SuperStock drive the final nail in the coffin. I for one like the idea but I would not like to assist in the demise in the NHRA. Let the cars fall where they may and lets do something then. Just my .02

Joe B

Re: Takin control of our own destiny.
 

Joey, I'm afraid this is THE ONLY way something like this will happen.

Re: Takin control of our own destiny.
 

at least 10 years ago, maybe longer, LACR (now defunct, yes it was a dive) was supposed to go IHRA. I was actually quite excited byt the possibility of a non-nhra track right in the NHRA's backyard and possibly some differnt direction and thinking. It did not come to pass, and the reason I was given was INSURANCE!! the track operator could nly get insurance in this market with a tie to NHRA. without thier sanction, no one would issue aliability policy. any track operators here, please chime in and correct me if I am wrong. Without a proven sanctioning body, liability insurance for the track may not be available. OTOH, I HATE No Hot Rods Allowed for the way they treat sportsman racers, and partly because of this, I haven't had a stocker since 1977.

Re: Takin control of our own destiny.
 

Joey stock and super stock are not going to be the reason for NHRA to fail. All this thread was intended to do is start a conversation that we need to think about what could happen to us if something happened to NHRA. Mark you are 100% correct that racers need to support their local stock and super stock races and I intend to do that this year. Local or regional organizations would only be a way to maybe get more people together for their common interests. Having a series with a points competition, awards and money might encourage racers to support the local or regional format. In my area we already have two tracks that run combo races. If we could find maybe two more maybe one in Indiana and one in Ohio, and have a couple of races a month, this would be great for the southern part of div. 3. The northern part of D3 could be Martin, Milan, Stanton and maybe Joliet or Norwalk.

All that keeps us from doing this is imagination and work.We've got a racers party this weekend here in Louisville and I intend to talk to a bunch of racers about this very matter. I think this is something all of us need to be thinking about. This is something positive we could do to make our sport better.

Greg

Re: Takin control of our own destiny.
 

Here’s the deal on this, yes we can put SS/Stock races together, set dates, pay some good money, always was $100 entry fee, paying back $1,500 to win, $750 runner up, and $50 a round won after round one, if you get 30 cars it pays the bill with no problem, ok now the bad side of this............
First off if who ever runs these deals, make sure you pay the racers at the event, (some knows what I'm saying there)
One person runs the deal, ladders, runs lanes, and makes the calls if needed.

Biggest problem is car count, when you put one of these things on everybody and there brother say they will come and support it, when the gates open you get 15 cars and holding your ***. Ask Kenny Shawver, Tony DePillo and others that have tried to start up a SS/Stock series.

Dave Ley has the best damn SS/Stock series (ECSSSA) going in the country right now and all you need to do is copy his gig. Everybody gets 2 TT's runs, they get laddered I think after round one, and go have fun.
BTW SS/Stock series in Florida sounds good also. (SSSA)

This is just my take on this, BIG thing, pay the racers!!!!!!!!! At the end of the event.

Re: Takin control of our own destiny.
 

At Bowling Green we have between 40 and 50 cars most of the time. I also thnk if we had an association with points, awards, and money to the top points earners for the year you could increase your attendance.

Greg

Re: Takin control of our own destiny.
 

Greg knowing the rich history of SS & Stock racing in your area down at BG & Music City, and other tracks, there would be no problem at all running a series in that area.

BTW, Nitro Lounge can stay in KY all summer, lol , hint, hint, lol

Re: Takin control of our own destiny.
 

The Bowling Green, Music city area is one thing. Cars are there and enjoy it. My only observation is what is different from the current NHRA deal. Same rules, Same track, no sponsors, self pay racing and still the dial in racing.Another Participant program. The issues are the same just different location, no complaining as it is a place to race but no major changes or long range planning just tracks providing a location for same racing , same rules.
Not complaining just an observation. Dave Ley doing something different? I doubt it guys just having a place to race in their area more often with organized payout methods. A parallel series of Same rules, cars and better support for S and SS racing by the racers. Still a participant supported program.
I feel to grow, acquire sponsors again, acquire spectator appeal, Sportsman racing needs some % of return to racing that got people involed to begin with. Heads up as a constant part of the program.Brand conflict. This might not include all people or cars but it could bring benefits to ALL who like Sportsman racing by increasing recognition.
Biggest draw backs, Money invested by all with current rules, Habit patterns and fixed thinking.

Re: Takin control of our own destiny.
 

I think the blueprint for a successful Stock/SS combo format has foundation in a number of the current organisations. The Can-Am Stock/Super Stock Series in Ontario was founded in 1996 by F.J. Smith and is supported by a host of racers, many of whom have been participants since its inception. The average car count is consistently in the 25-30 range, and the competition is fierce. Without this group's existence, I would not be able to justify owning and racing a Stock Eliminator car.

Re: Takin control of our own destiny.
 

Nitro Joe,

I think when you had the S/SS race in Houston the turnout was pretty good if I remember right. It was a fun race also. ED

Re: Takin control of our own destiny.
 

why not try www.headsup-racing.com

Re: Takin control of our own destiny.
 

Mark, I know how you feel. I ran the Tri-State Stock/Super Stock Association in 1999 and 2000, with races in PA, OH and WV. In the area we raced in, there are many cars and it should have been no problem to get at last FIFTY cars at each race. Yet, the largest car count we ever had was thirty-five. I've been doing the race in Hagerstown MD every fall (and a few spring events) since 1996. The car counts there are pretty good. Every year in the fall has had at least thirty-five cars, with the exception of three years. Yet there are many racers who live within an hour or two and have never been there. Some racers still have it in their head that if it is not an NHRA National or NHRA Divisional event, it simply isn't worth attending. Even with good payouts. 2001 was the largest race I had at H-town. 57 cars for the weekend, 48 for first round. $100 entry, $50 for second round LOSS, and $100 for third round LOSS. When is the last time you ran an NHRA race, lost third round and won your entry fee back? I imagine seldom, if ever. Billy Nees and Dave Campolito were in the final, split the purse and won $1300 apeice. And all money is paid out on site in cash. I guess this type of payout structure isn't too enticing to some? Dave Ley with the ECSSSA, and George Mirza also live in good areas for S/SS racing and draw very good car counts for their events and have a lot of support. I believe the ones out in Div 5 draw well also. I am trying to resurect the Tri-State S/SS Assn this year, we'll see if it goes any better this time. I would think that in the tougher economic times we're in, and racers seemingly increaing frustration with NHRA and IHRA it might be a good time. Not just me, but for all local S/SS-type series and associations. I would think one day races, less travel time, less time off work, better payout structure, etc would be attractive to many racers. Guess we'll see.

Re: Takin control of our own destiny.
 

In response to this topic, I’ll chime in on a few points

If we as “participants” in this sport feel now is not the time for change, then ask yourself “when” is the right time for change?

What I find distasteful is that the sanctioning bodies are not accountable to the membership. The NHRA executive have found a way to insulate themselves and aren’t accountable to anyone. If I’m wrong then who are they accountable to? It has taken these guys over 50 years to develop and tune this well oiled money making machine and they aren’t going to give it up easily. They have raped and pillaged the sportsman racers to a point of revolt in order to keep this machine running. And we keep coming back for more.

The NHRA and IHRA know how racers think – at least in one respect. THEY KNOW WE WILL SHOW UP TO RACE. If you don’t believe me, just organize a boycott to a single race and watch it fall flat on its ***. Racers will show up. That’s guaranteed and NHRA & IHRA use that knowledge to prosper at our expense.

I’ve got nothing against making a profit, however I have a real problem with self appointed royalty hog troughing the profits in what is fundamentally a recreational based sport.

In regards to a new sportsman based association, I say “Hell Yes”. Count me in. However I also recommend that we learn from history and proceed cautiously. Take the good points from NHRA & IHRA and build on it.

Don’t be afraid to pay the guys who are working to build the new association. Their time is worth it. Isn’t yours? Don’t sit back and bitch about it. If you have nothing to offer, shut the hell up. If you do have something constructive to offer, roll up your sleeves and get in there and do something positive. However provide a good foundation to build on, which means be certain people are accountable for their actions. And be sure all decision makers are replaceable.

Can Corporate America be sold on this idea? They will want value for their money and want to see results. I think the Pros have priced themselves out of the market. Perhaps now is the time to go after those companies who have been involved with the Pro ranks and offer them an alternative program at an affordable price. At the very least they will learn there is an alternative. This much I know - It's easier said than done.

What’s the worst-case scenario? At the end of the day we may end up with more local Stk/SS races that are fun, affordable and maybe even profitable. NHRA & IHRA have their hooks firmly set in most of us and it will be a struggle to break away. I guess it’s up to you in the long run as to whether you want to be part of making a new program a reality or deal with another form of reality and that is more of the same from the existing sanctioning bodies.

Happy trails everybody.

Chuck

Re: Takin control of our own destiny.
 

Great Post from Chuck Porter. Can you imagine the win, runnerup, and round money that could have been paid to Stock and S/S racers with just the payroll and bonues paid to T. Compton and Dallas Garner alone not to mention the rest of the money grubbers !

Re: Takin control of our own destiny.
 

Its those at the top of NHRA (No Happy Racers Allowed) that make all the money.
Much more than they are worth!!!!!!!!!!
If you talk to the event and parking personnel they will tell you very quickly they do not make much money and I believe them.
My 2 Cents

Re: Takin control of our own destiny.
 

Speedworld in AZ would be a prime place to have a S/SS event. I have been there a few times every year for the last 5 years and it seem like the owner/promoter is really trying hard to cater to the sportsman racer. It may be worth a look if this takes off.

Re: Takin control of our own destiny.
 

How about this? A stock and super stock race Labor Day weekend with purses of 5-10k for each winner, class races and a combo race on Saturday night. We would have time to line up sponsors and find a race track in the central part of the country. I'm just throwing this out to see what everyone thinks. How about it Mickey Thompson? Would you be interested in helping?

Greg

Re: Takin control of our own destiny.
 

Greg, you know that our gang will support this race if you can get it going. That will make about 10-15 cars.

Re: Takin control of our own destiny.
 

Ricky, send me an e-mail .

Greg