Pro funny stock
 

Is it me or are the pro stockers getting to resemble "FUNNY CARS" more and more each year? Look at WJ's photo on Drag race central. It just dosent look right and if those hood scoops got any bigger they would have to drive by remote control from the grand stands. Its about time to get rid of the 2 carb tunnel rams and go to FI and NO hood scoops other than factory production designs. Maybe change the cubic inches to around 400 (or 358 inches ala Pro stock truck) and use small blocks??? That would put them in the mjd to low 7's. As it is right now they are almost as boring as Top FOOL and HA HA cars. Not to mention the cost. Just my opinion and we all know what thats worth....lol.

Re: Pro funny stock
 

i agree.they are called factory hot rods too.i love prostock,but it's getting rediculous.there is a push toward a nostalgia pro stock, that i hope catches on.

Re: Pro funny stock
 

I agree, the bodies on these cars are way out of hand.

Re: Pro funny stock
 

I used to love Pro Stock too, and this was why:

- Could be backyard built
- Body panels and accessories that functioned
- Built from a real car
- Easily distinguishable between makes & models
- Didn't require a crew of 3 or more to manage
- Had to be driven to the lanes

Although I understand what necessated the 2350 # & 500 ci rule, that's when things started to REALLY get out of hand imo.

I agree Pro Stock is nothing more than gas powered Funny Car with left hand drive. No more character to the cars.

Re: Pro funny stock
 

This deal about EFI comes and go's, but you have no idea about the added cost this will add. It will also have a bigger spread between the have's and and the have nots. The cost of having factory engineer's to baby set the teams. The people to witre the soft ware. The only way it would work is to have a spec ecu that is sealed (so no traction control0, Throttle body, injector and will will still have to have some type of buldge on the hood to clear manifodls and valvecovers. Now don't tell me I have no idea what i am talking about cause I have seen first hand what the expense is from the IRL and Rolex serris DP & GT program. for the last 8 years.
Ralph

Re: Pro funny stock
 

OK....go with ONE 4 barr carb and keep it under the hood. NO GIANT hood scoops. Use real body pannels. Get the air thru the grill. 500 inch, 400 inch or small blocks so someone other than multi million dollor companies have to support it. They way it is now just SUCKS.

Re: Pro funny stock
 

draglist.com has a related site by danny white,"it's time to create nostalgia pro stock"

Re: Pro funny stock
 

I agree with this one. But the whole EFI deal scares the he-- out of me. It could add any where from $200,000.00 to 350,00.00, 400,000.00 range if you had that much and were willing to spend it.
Ralph

Re: Pro funny stock
 

Pro stock evolved from superstock at the beginning but it has gotton way out of hand and is nothing more than gas powered funny cars now. The true spirit of the class has been lost for more than 20 years.

Re: Pro funny stock
 

I don't agree with the posts about EFI. There is going to be an initial cost but after that it should be smooth sailing. You are going to pay somebody to educate you and hopefully you learn to do the tune on your own or it creates a crew position. But 3-400,000 dollars is way out of line. Where did those figures come from? Exxon-Mobil?

Steve

Re: Pro funny stock
 

The prostockers of the day are no farther out there than the 9 second stockers that are faster than the original prostockers on onlly 9 inch tires

Re: Pro funny stock
 

harold martin has been running efi successfully in pro mod for afew years now.also ihra has efi classess also,which also can run nhra.(a/fia in ihra is a/sa in nhra)a 1970 pro stock ran 10's or 9.9's.2009 pro stock runs 6.60's to 6.50's.a a/sa in 1970 ran 10.80's.a a/sa in 2009 runs9.70's.now tell me how stock has evolved as much as pro stock.

Re: Pro funny stock
 

Where did those figures come from?

From other programs I have been involved with, unless the sanctioning boby specs the ecu, throttle bdy nad injectors you can spennd that much easily (Bosch, PacTel and other ecus. It is very easy to get lost on a injector development progam and spend up to $1,600.00 ea (thats $25,600 per engine for 2 or 3 hp) on injectors not only on spray patterns but also targeting them and what if you use 2 per cylinder??? Thats 16 per engine then you get into the overhead ( for cooling the charge) vrs the injector spraying into cylinder. Unless you have been involved in program like this you just don't know how much $$$ you can spend. You will hneed a electrical eng and a enginer that can write the codes and understands these ECU's. Most of the Bosch ECUs have to be done in German ( the base code). This will not be a retuned stocker.
Ralph

Re: Pro funny stock
 

harold martin has been running efi successfully in pro mod for afew years.

How many IHRA national events has he won???

Re: Pro funny stock
 

I had a dual 4bbl setup when I first went SuperComp racing. A couple of years later I switched to an EFI setup from Harold Martin. Yes, there was a significant initial expense, mainly in the ECU and injectors. However, I'm sure my dual throttle bodies and the associated hardware are far less expensive than the many sets of carburetors a typical Pro Stock team has both at the shop for the dyno and in the trailer at the track.

Re: Pro funny stock
 

I'm biased but I would prefer Top Stock or a SS/AH shootout to today's Pro Stock show. Back in the day I loved Pro Stock, but now it has become a joke. It just seems to me that everything NHRA touches eventually becomes almost laughable. But, that's another story.

Re: Pro funny stock
 

pro mod is not in any way prostock and Harold Martins race record has nothing to do with the use of efi in prostock it's up to the santioning bodys to make the rules it's all about the money if some efi company stepped forward with money for the nhra or the class efi would be there tomorow

Re: Pro funny stock
 

I`m not denying that current Pro Stock has gotten out of hand, but I really doubt that any A/SA cars were running 10.8`s in 1970. I think it was 1976 when Jim Waldos A/S 427 Fairlane was credited with running the 1rst 10 second pass in Stock Eliminator.

Re: Pro funny stock
 

Thats what I was going to say....we already have a "PRO" Stock catagory ready and waiting ! Its called TOP STOCK right now. At least a few more could join the exclusive "CLUB". called pro stock. At least the Top Stockers look like everyday cars.

Re: Pro funny stock
 

harold martin racing.com,ran pro stock before he moved pro mod.the racer profile explains.

Re: Pro funny stock
 

Pro Stock today is nothing more than Funny Cars with doors. They look nothing like the showroom cars they are resembling. The Chrysler cars are just as bad. I lost my interest back in the early 80's.

I really don't care what size motor they use or that they use dual carbs. That's part of their history from day one. My big problems are if you’re going to use a manual transmission you should have to use a clutch to shift it. Anyone can drive one of these thing and be competive with a little pratice and have the money. They should never have allowed fiberglass bodies. Convert back to the steel bodies and just allow fiberglass doors, frontends that look like the actual nose with working headlights (no more stickers), and deck lid. Just like the rest of NHRA they are our of control.

Re: Pro funny stock
 

Where are you coming up with these figures?? I run EFI on my Super Stocker and have nowhere near that much spent on my system!! And I don't think the Pro Stock systems would be that much different!

Re: Pro funny stock
 

The combination will work, it is a matter of tuning. Pat Musi uses EFI and he has done very well in the NMCA scene. Although he may not have any wins I think he has proven the combo can rus fast with the nitrous guys.

Re: Pro funny stock
 

Where are you coming up with these figures??
You looks to as if you don't read well! As I said in earlier posts Actual IRL and Rolex Daytona Prototypes. Two different series and real life experience. Not Stock or Super Stock! Real budgets to do these programs and writing the Purchase orders to pay for them. You can do your Super Stocker for a lot less BUT until regulated this Pro Stock to Spec ECU, Injectors and Throtle Body the sky is the limit. Just go and price the Bosch or PacTel type systems out.

Re: Pro funny stock
 

RE: R & D costs on F.I. systems.... apples/oranges....

For one thing, all drag racers need is "an on/off switch" whereas, cars that must turn corners have throttle sensitivity issues; they must perform at part throttle in such a way that the driver can dictate corner-negotiating behavior that will allow varying degrees of oversteering the car with power. Hanging the tail out with power, so-to-speak.

Drag racers just need to stab it and steer it; keep it in the groove with the throttle wide open continuously. That means that a fuel injection system only has to be engineered to deliver max power at full throttle during the run.... a whole lot less complicated deal than trying to engineer part-throttle driveability into the system.

Bottom line? A lot less expensive R & D...

F.A.S.T. fuel injection systems, and I'm sure several others, have systems that could be easily adapted to Pro Stock motors without breaking the bank. As long as NHRA is going to dictate what carburetor with a specified throttle bore opening that can be legally used (as they have, for many years), why couldn't they dictate a spec. fuel injection system, which would preclude runaway R & D costs?

If they said everyone has to run a F.A.S.T. FI system as it comes from that company, what's the reason that costs would become prohibitive?


Sure, it's a spec, cookie-cutter deal, but no more so than what they have now. Holley Dominators are Holley Dominators... Last time I checked, they all looked pretty much the same....

It's do-able.... but NHRA officials who make policy probably own a bunch of Holley stock.... Now, if we could just get them to buy some stock in a F.I. comany....

Re: Pro funny stock
 

Ok so maybe Warren shouldn't be allowed to paint his grill... but I still kinda like PFS :P How bout that Anderson running a 6.58 outta the box on a green racetrack?!!! Hard to imagine a 2 valve pushrod 500 inch motor on gas running that fast... I remember when that woulda been a good run in an alky funny car! And yes the class has evolved and they have to mutate the front ends so that its fair for all makes and screw around with the back of the cars to fit the tires and they need the wing to keep em on the ground because of all the speed... sorry.. And what interest would there be in the class if you slow them down?... I can understand the EFI thing yes, but I kinda like the hood scoops. I mean even the production cars don't look like a 72 camaro anymore... don't blame it on the scoops... I kinda like most the classes in regular drag racing. Some more than others, but I've had a class pulled out from under me and watched another class get pulled out from under my dad so I say leave em alone. You can't please all the people all the time..

Re: Pro funny stock
 

In response to zracer305 we have to use the clutch when we shift in Stock Eliminator too? OOPS....

Re: Pro funny stock
 

I notice that the one guy who likes those oversized hood scoopes just happens to run one almost as big as the rest of his car.....lol.

Re: Pro funny stock
 

Is the "COT" Pro-Stock car far behind?, I stopped watching NASCAR because of that and the whole Toyota deal.
How about making them use the "new" Camaro, Challenger and Mustang bodies? and use weight breaks to make up for any aero advantage. Just a thought.
I know its only a "shell", but the fact that Toyota is in Funny Car, makes me sick.......just my .02

Re: Pro funny stock
 

Allyn Armstrong ran EFI on his opel L/A and that went damn fast-somehow I doubt that he spent $300-400 thou on his system (300-400 thousand hours on the dyno maybe knowing how hard Allyn and John work).

Re: Pro funny stock
 

Todays pro-stock cars bear basically NO resemblence to the vehicle their supposed to represent.That's not to say they can't but they already had that class, the "imports" front wheel drive 4-5-6 cyls. with "hair dryers" on them, I believe I've heard that class no longer exists. People don't really care that the Cobalt prostocker doesn't look like theirs sitting in their driveway, they are there to watch the heads up racing that they can somehow identify with because they announced " the Cobalt versus the GXP". When you tell people something long enough they WILL start to believe it even if they know it's not real. As far as the $ figures being thrown around, Yes racers being racers I'm sure many would look for some sort of way to gain an advantage no matter what the cost.The santioning bodies would have to issue strict specs for what could be used, which properly done would probably wind up saving most teams money in the end. I've never heard any numbers on what a team spends just on carbs but I'm sure it's quite high. As for the hood scoops what the heck Detoits been putting them on cars for years, yes not as big and mostly not functional but still a way of saying factory muscle, as with most things the racers have pushed it to it's limits. Don't like the scoops.... race Stock. Joe

Re: Pro funny stock
 

I'm with you, Joe. In what other heads-up catory is racing that close? To contain costs NHRA would simply have to have an aproved list of ECUs, just like they do the MSD boxes. They could also, if they think somebody has modified one, do what they did the MSD boxes. They would bring one to the racer and require them to swap units with them. As close as Pro Stock racing is now, why would they want to change it?

Pro funny stock + EFI
 

First, the list of "approved" EMS should have price CAP of $2,000.00 USD MAX.
A rule is needed for ALL cars in current racing, today !
A "clamer" rule could work here with each "cal" erased.

A well calibrated engine will last longer, run cleaner.

This effect can REDUCE to cost of racing, a truth found by "off-road" racers.

Lance

Re: Pro funny stock
 

And, my friend Mike Edwards was runner-up tonight. Good job Mike!!

Re: Pro funny stock
 

I would love to see to them moving towards the newer technology, fuel injection, dual over head cam 4v heads ect. At some point NHRA will have to deal with the next generation of fans.

I am 27 been racing and messing with car since I could drive, I love watching NHRA racing but there is a major disconnect between my generation of racing and what NHRA offers. Is the current PS technology fascinating? Yes, but there is a huge void since 99 percent of current engines used by my generation to race share very little with the basics of current PS and V8's in general.

I know that NHRA has it fundamental roots and rules, but at some point the disconnect between what fascinates current young racers (programmable EFI, Dual over cams, 4v heads, individual throttle bodies, variable valve timing, ect) will leave NHRA with a suffering fan base due to there being no connection to pushrods and carburetors. Stuff that the new generation of racers need to go to the junk yard to even see or take apart.

By the looks of the last couple NHRA races the stands are getting grayer, as some point their has to be a outreach and some changes to bridge the gap to my generation.

Re: Pro funny stock
 

Steve MTT,
You think the stands are grey? check out the racers. Old cars with OLDER racers. Like it or not there does need to be a cross over which can attract current people to racing using current technology or..... it will vanish. Lack of new drivers , lack of new engine builders, lack of sponsor support....loss of spectators.
Sport Compact races lost out because it was a fringe group of supporters. Cost is high. UntilNHRA gets a brain wave on how to control the cost within Drag Racing basics it wont happen in this economy.

Re: Pro funny stock
 

Its not that there was a fringe group or lack of support, the larger series I don't think were managed or promoted right. NHRA left, NOPI left, but this year there are a half dozen new smaller series and by my count almost 60 race events for sport compacts this across the county. Sport Compact racing is far from dead.

Re: Pro funny stock
 

My favorite pro class is Pro stock and I hope they dont change a thing. Like was posted earlier where else is the competition so close. IN my opinion changing to FI, turbos and overhead cams will just make it even more cost prohibitive to start and kill off some of the teams already running due to not being able to afford to change over. If I had my way they would run stock, super stock and pro stock and some of the .90 stuff and thats it. Both of the fuel car classes are a joke.

Re: Pro funny stock
 

If they were all primered you couldn't tell one, from the other.

Re: Pro funny stock
 

Ditto top fuel and funny car and NASCAR.