2008 Cobra Jets belong in Stock
 

I have read a lot of post with a lot of complaints about the new Cobra Jets and the cars belong in Stock. The problem is NHRA needs to change the factors for stock and start at 6.00 like Super Stock. If you can go to a dealer and buy a new car Ford, Chevy, or Dodge with 500 HP it should have a place to race in NHRA. As far as Stock being stock cars that went out a long time ago. I tried racing in Stock 10 years ago and I wasn't competitive because I didn't want to spent $3500 to have my heads acid ported and that didn't include the intake. Stockers that race today are far more advanced than the Super Stocker I raced in the 70's. Robert Pond went 9.76 with his AA/S 67 Fairlane which is faster than the Pro Stockers were running in 1970. NHRA needs to get with the times and change the Stock HP to weight factors.

Re: 2008 Cobra Jets belong in Stock
 

I agree. The times have changed, but the NHRA rulebook hasn't kept pace. The move to AA/S and AA/SA was a long-overdue addition to the rules, but it didn't go far enough, I think.

You can (if you have the bucks) go to a Chevy dealer and buy a bone-stock ZR-1 Corvette right off the showroom floor with 638 advertised horsepower in a 3,200-pound package (5.02 pounds per hp); a 600 hp Viper SRT-10 in at about 3,350 pounds (5.6 pounds per hp), or several different permutations of blown Ford Mustangs with horsepowers ranging anywhere from 425 to 700+ (depending on whom you choose to believe). The new Nissan GTR is a mid-11-second ride off the showroom floor (AWD), and you're going to be seeing a LOT of those cars around... why not race 'em??? Isn't drag racing traditionally where people go to see the FAST cars???

There are no "STOCK ELIMINATOR" classes for these showroom-stock vehicles.

Why the Hell not? They're American cars (well, all but the GTR) that are readily available, would be REALLY exciting to watch run down the drag strip, and probably would be relatively easy to gain sponsorship for, since they represent the cream of the crop of new cars, so far.

I think NHRA is really dragging their heels on this deal... and, missing an opportunity to showcase the best of the best by not including these babies into the Classification Guide.

The question is: WHY?

Inertia??? I know that NHRA Tech is eaten up with it... "Don't do today, what you can put off until tomorrow.... or, next year."

Re: 2008 Cobra Jets belong in Stock
 

Rusty.....you said Acid Porting was needed to be competetive 10 years ago......There seems to be a lot of people that will say you just needed to "work on your stuff more"...haha

Re: 2008 Cobra Jets belong in Stock
 

Acid porting is a "misnomer". The "acid" and now today "Media blasting" just hides the port work being done. Its been more than 20 years since I first became aware of it and the "powers to be" just turned thier heads except for the S/S head rule change. Let the games begin.

Re: 2008 Cobra Jets belong in Stock
 

Seems to me that the 50 chosen few didnt have any problems running the Canadian CJ heads against everyone else that didnt have then at the time

Re: 2008 Cobra Jets belong in Stock
 

How much HP did a bone stock L72 or ZL1 Camaro make back in 1969? Not the published numbers.

Re: 2008 Cobra Jets belong in Stock
 

I know it was done in 1979 I have quite a story about that. Won't get into it here.
And NO we never ran anything but a "true" stock head.( A look at our MPH could verify that).One of the main reasons we quit stock eliminator in 1981. If we continued to race in stock, we would have been forced to do it. And if we were to get caught I didn't want "the world" to think we were doing it all along.
Thats is why I get hostile when somebody talks bad about boost on the turbo cars. To raise airflow on a turbo car it costs about a dollar. How much is it to acid port, chemically clean, media blast,etc a head and intake manifold? Run a "stocker" cam? ETC. ETC.
I always thought stock should be kept as low buck as possible. I remember winning the York US 30 invitational and having to spend the Monday following the race at the track because they paid us by check and the banks weren't open till Tuesday. Once we made the semi finals we spent what gas money we had on food, knowing we were in the money.

Re: 2008 Cobra Jets belong in Stock
 

Amazing how "off topic" you guys can go here!

Re: 2008 Cobra Jets belong in Stock
 

You think people are crying about the Cobra Jets, allow a ZR1 corvette to run Stock. Since from the factory this car has: Titanium Rods, Titanium Valves, CNC ported heads, a dry sump oil system, tubular exhaust manifolds that are as good as most headers and the same demon blower as the Cobra Jet ( different housing but same size displacement blower). And come to think of it, with all that and at a larger displacement than the Cobra Jet (6.2L vs 5.4) its only rated at 638HP. And to get that 638HP the factory exhaust system has vacuum actuated cutouts to bypass the mufflers.

The key everyone keeps missing is that NHRA's system uses what they call a HP rating but if there is a single car out there that actually only produces the rated HP level it can't run the index. These new performance cars come from the factory with a large percentage of the tricks that get Stockers to the level they are today as legal mods above and beyond the base HP rating. As such they can not be compared on the same scale.

Re: 2008 Cobra Jets belong in Stock
 

The point I was trying to make is if you can buy it new from the dealer Ford, Chevy or Dodge NHRA should have a class for it in stock if the manufacture provides HP and shipping weights. There needs to be a place in stock for these 500 +++ HP new cars.

Re: 2008 Cobra Jets belong in Stock
 

Good point. I agree. But nhra staff needs to do their homework as well. They accepted the 425 Horsepower rating from the Ford Parts people without question.

Re: 2008 Cobra Jets belong in Stock
 

Gotta get one last jab at the fords eh Bruce?

I said this in the LAST thread about the CJ's, Start off at 5lb's for A and go to Z. We don't need AA or any additional numbers if the factor starts in the right place. A is the fastest at 5 per hp and Z can be 28 and up or whatever.

Re: 2008 Cobra Jets belong in Stock
 

Do you think the CJ debate is over? BTW you missed the point. It was about nhra staff doing their job(s)!

Re: 2008 Cobra Jets belong in Stock
 

Does that mean a '68 HEMI 'Cuda or Hemi Dart can run C/S if 5 lbs is A and 5.5 lbs is B and 6 lbs is C since they made about 100 copies. Maybe a 7 lb class '64 Ford T-Bolt (100 copies again) or '69 AMX?????

Re: 2008 Cobra Jets belong in Stock
 

BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH and I want my supercharged Mini Cooper for A/FS and I want a Class for DIESEL DODGE PICK-UPS and a Class for rollerskates and a class for skateboards and snowmobiles and Golf Carts every body's got one lets include them too! STOCK NEEDS TO ELVOLVE, why do we need all these old fashoned rules throw them out start all over no more rules lets just call it Super ET.

Re: 2008 Cobra Jets belong in Stock
 

RE: The '68 S/S Mopars...
Why not? Put the chassis back to the way it came "STOCK" (no wheel tubs, no 4-links, just S/S springs, and run them on 9" tires, like everybody else, with stock-lift flat tappet cams, no ported heads, and cross-ram, stock intake manifolds and see how well they run....

Ditto the T-Bolts, except for the intake... Gotta have a stock-spec 427 Hi-Rise manifold...

Can't wait to see how they hook!!! LOL!

Re: 2008 Cobra Jets belong in Stock
 

Way to go Larry.Dont stop now,give 'em both barrels.How about AGEVT/S (A gas-electric-variable transmission/Stock) for starters.Or SW/WB DW/WB (single wheel and double wheel wheel barrow.
The possibilities are endless.

Ed F.

Re: 2008 Cobra Jets belong in Stock
 

Bill, as far as I recall when the Nopi Tuner sponsorship ended the NHRA Sports Compact series last season, I remember reading that those classes were going to be merged into our Competition & Super Stock Eliminator categories!? I've been looking forward to this season to see which of those cars were going to come out and play with the American Iron in either category, and I've been waiting since 1991 for any of those Japanese/Japanese-American cars to make their way into Stock Eliminator...If nothing else, the late great Wally Parks rolled out the welcome mat for those cars too, but you don't see many of them listed in the Stock Car classification guide, because no-one's chosen to campaign one of them---I'm chomping at the bit to line-up my Chevy Cavalier next to one of those (ballyhooed by the warped-minded, import-loving car magazine dip-stick) import cars in a Stock Eliminator type race (epecially a handicapped one where rt's and consistency determine the winner)!!! OOOHHH boy, get me fired up to race an import, and I don't care who's driving it, because I'll be thinking of all of the American workers who lost their jobs due to our governments embracing of this warped-minded global economy!!! They better hope I'm not feeling well when they race me, either , because I'll be out to put another thousandts package on them like I've been blessed to do against Tony Hernandez (.006 package in Rnd 3 at the '06 Mile Highs), or the nearly similar packages placed on Wes McCann, and Mike Graham in a 2007 Stock/Super Stock combo race (where I ran right on my dial nearly to the thou both times!), that has Mike wanting a rematch with me, and was my rematch with Wes for my -.013 red-bulb against him in the quarters at the '07 Div. VII race #2 where I ran right on my dial-in (to the thou), in my fwd Z24---thus, I'm still waiting to see some imports run consistent like that.

I'M CALLING OUT ANY BODY WHO LOVES THOSE IMPORTS TO BUILD ONE AND BRING IT OUT TO ANY OF OUR STOCK ELIMINATOR RACES...ESPECIALLY AGAINST ME!!!!!!

Uh, hmm, now as for the 2008 Cobra Jets, I'm glad to see them out here, and I look forward to seeing the Challengers as well in Gainesville, and the Camaros (once Chevrolet decides to release them).

USA ALL THE WAY!!!!!

Re: 2008 Cobra Jets belong in Stock
 

Anything that the OEM sells to the public, for public consumption on public roadways, should be allowed in Stock.
If the OEM builds it and can't pass DOT / EPA it should be Superstock only.

That should be the argument, not what the HP or class designation!

Re: 2008 Cobra Jets belong in Stock
 

That's right Jeff, Alan Rinehart said something about them not being street legal over the loud speaker Sat. during first round.Then I said out loud "thats why they should be in super stock" but someone wanted to argue sayin "my stocker isn't street legal either" but I informed that it was when it came from the factory!

Re: 2008 Cobra Jets belong in Stock
 

Shawn, did you go home, or are you still hanging around Pomona? Making for a long "vacation", eh? At least with all the rain, you shouldn`t be too homesick for the Northwest yet!

Re: 2008 Cobra Jets belong in Stock
 

Shawn,

I think that's an excellent point you made RE: is it street legal? If not, then it's an S/S car. I never considered that, but I think it has a lot of validity to it. Getting the mfgr.-friendly NHRA Tech Department to agree might take some doing, unfortunately.

Gary, your comment "American workers who lost their jobs due to our governments embracing of this warped-minded global economy" made me wish I'd said it.... we are on exactly the same page in our thinking on "global economy." Nothing would suit me better than to see a 50% tariff on any car sold here that was not built on this continent. But, that's politics, and I am aware that this in not the place to discuss that.

Be that as it may, "foreign" cars are making inroads performance-wise, and need to be included in the Class.Guide, I think (if for no other reason than to allow you, Gary, to get some starting-line satisfaction racing them!)

When I say they are making inroads, what I mean is "getting faster all the time." If you look at the road test results (in mags like Car and Driver, Road and Track, and Motor Trend) of the Honda Accord V6's, Camry V6's, and Nissan Altima V6s, you'll see that some of them run very close to 100 in the quarter, and the 5-speed Altimas run well over 100mph in the quarter-mile, and in the low-to-mid 14s on stock rubber and do this in brand-new, showroom-stock trim. The slowest run right at 100mph... and will exceed that, when broken in... still showroom-stock, thru the cat's and mufflers. That's a little faster than a '64 GTO was, or a '68 383 Road Runner, which were considered "muscle cars" in their day. And, (except for the Altima) those are all automatics... Amazing, for a 3,400-pound car with a 3.5-liter (214 cubic inch) motor, normally-aspirated, in "grocery-getter" trim.

I think if NHRA gave them a place to race, they would come... and you could have "your day in court," Gary.

I think it's a shame that NHRA doesn't actively pursue the specs on those cars so they can be included in the mix; they're NOT "slow." Any car that can run 100mph in the quarter, showroom stock, is okay by me, regardless of its place of manufacture. Just factor them right, and away we go!!!!

Bill

Re: 2008 Cobra Jets belong in Stock
 

The "OVER SEA'S' built s##t box's had a place to race. It was called NOPI and it flopped, failed, went KAPUT. Even the bikini clad 18 year olds couldnt keep it going. They didnt come and now they can run brackets or on the streets as they usually do.

Re: 2008 Cobra Jets belong in Stock
 

I have to disagree... No doubt about the modern V6 engines making great power compared to the older ones, but there is not much more power that can be extracted out of them. They have advanced variable cam timing that varies duration and lift. They are basically making as much power as possible and still emission legal. Other than removing the accessories, exhaust, and making a few computer tweaks there isn't much more to do. Getting 100 hp more would be very difficult if not impossible. It's much easier to get that 100hp out of an older V8 that has much more displacement.
Also, if anyone was ever asked to go though tech in V6 Altima or Camy, that would be the end of their weekend. They would spend the rest of their time reassembling their engine.

Re: 2008 Cobra Jets belong in Stock
 

It is hard to keep these threads on topic. A changing of the OEM guard may be taking place with these new CJs. GM may be on it's way out and Ford on it's way in. We may see Ford trucks with nhra logos in the future. It's a cyclic thing. In other words GM is out of money and Ford still has some. Well, at least the Ford Racing Parts folks still have some money. They call the CJ a racing parts car because it did not flow directly from a regular assembly line enroute to the track.

Re: 2008 Cobra Jets belong in Stock
 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Anything that the OEM sells to the public, for public consumption on public roadways, should be allowed in Stock.
If the OEM builds it and can't pass DOT / EPA it should be Superstock only.

That should be the argument, not what the HP or class designation! "
__________________
Jeff Lee 7494 SS/H '70 AMX



I AGREE with this statement!!

Re: 2008 Cobra Jets belong in Stock
 

Now if someone takes a street legal, dealer available GT500 Mustang - swaps the rear axle, adds a roll cage, headers, removes exhaust, etc - all the things that are legal for stock eliminator the car is no longer street legal. Indisputable. Now how is this car any different than what Ford is offering as the Cobra Jet package? They are offering this commemorative special edition already race prepped - of course they can not sell it as street legal but it is built to stocker specs. I'm currently in Germany for work and must say - be glad we even have the performance automotive culture we have in the US and OEM support. The 1.2L VW rental I have was flat out in high gear and barely went 100mph on the highway.


One comment on the Sport Compact transition, all the classes already exist, SS/EX is the only one new this year:

Sport Compact NHRA
Pro FWD AA/AF (comp eliminator)
Pro RWD BB/AT, CC/AT, DD/AT (comp) - ie: John Mihovetz & Bruno Massell
Outlaw I/D (comp)
Hot Rod BB/AF (comp)
All Motor SS/EX (Super Stock) - Scott Kelley is competing at Pomona with his Toyota!


One of the big issues with most of these cars is that when they were top billing at Sport Compact events they had sponsors (many were OEMs) now that they are sportsman categories those sponsors are gone and the numbers these cars were running can not be done cheaply as they went through alot of parts (like any other Pro classes). But as the indexs were set based on the known max potential of these classes you have to continue at that previous level to participate, especially in Comp. Most have chosen to compete in other categories (Brad Personnett - Pro Mod, etc).

Re: 2008 Cobra Jets belong in Stock
 

Street legal!

You can add all you want to a car and still be able to drive on the street (except headers) as long as it has a ser# and insured!

What is your point?

I may be wrong but I thought NHRA rules were all vehicle had to be available to the public with a minimum # sold with vin #'s??

Can this vehicle be ordered straight from the manufacturer with this same set up (engine, trans, etc)??

Re: 2008 Cobra Jets belong in Stock
 

I thought he made his point pretty clear. All Ford did was make the modifications that any racer is going to do to run the car in Stock Eliminator. What difference does it make who does the modifications? Try rereading his post. And reading of the rulebook will answer your other question. You won't find anything about VIN#'s. The fact is NHRA can do whatever they want, when they want and they don't care whether we like it or not. Just ask the SRAC.

Re: 2008 Cobra Jets belong in Stock
 

ss3845

Did'nt mean to ruffle anybodies feathers. YES NHRA can do anything they want! I agree there is NO difference from someone taking a GT500, doing the mods themselves or getting one already done from the factory or Roush Racing! This car is avail with specs for everything.

My question is can the CJ be bought from the factory bone stock with the (complete) engine that is in these cars? Just a guestion nothing more.

ps I like these cars just dont think they are factored correctly; and, I dont like reading anything from NHRA even the rule book. LOL

Re: 2008 Cobra Jets belong in Stock
 

In Dec 1967 Ford build 50 428 Mustangs and than in April 1968 started building them as a regular production option. I hope Ford does the same this time and make it a regular production option.

Re: 2008 Cobra Jets belong in Stock
 

Junior,

All 50 CJ cars (and yes all 50 were built and accounted for as I have photos of nearly all of them being assembled) were available to the public and sold through Ford dealerships. If you had the loot in your suit and got your order in you got one.

Plus, Ford Racing Performance Parts will be offering ALL the necessary parts so anyone can built their own CJ using either a FRPP body-in-white, or any 2005-2009 Mustang body.

Evan

Re: 2008 Cobra Jets belong in Stock
 

Evan;
Why was the Mustang that Ford released to you was not allowed to run Stock but the new cars are?
Not busting your balls Just curious why?
And how is the car coming along?
Ed

Re: 2008 Cobra Jets belong in Stock
 

Ed, Evan will chime in if I am wrong, but I believe the reason he can't run Stock is because he is building a Shelby GT500 Mustang, which was factory and NHRA rated at 500hp in 2007 and has a weight break of 6.94 in the Classification guide. AA/S is 7.50 - 7.99, but SS/B is 6.50 - 6.99.
Bill Seabrooks - superfan1

Re: 2008 Cobra Jets belong in Stock
 

Sooooooooooo I guess these engines are'nt available from the factory in a car to the public!! Sounds like Ford along with NHRA done an (end around) to skirt the rules. Build your own engine out of a parts book run NHRA!!

Just does'nt seem right!!

Re: 2008 Cobra Jets belong in Stock
 

Okayyyyyyyyyyyyyyy.If one of the CJ drivers gets stupid or careless and gets enough HP on the combo
and they factor out to less than 7.50 then what does NHRA do, after rolling their tongues back into their mouth?

Ed F.

Could someone post the comparative engine specs for all three engines?

Re: 2008 Cobra Jets belong in Stock
 

The stocker engine was available to the public in the Cobra Jet. Evan does not have a Cobra Jet, he has a Shelby GT500 which has a different engine (also available to the public). Is that so hard to understand?

Re: 2008 Cobra Jets belong in Stock
 

They probably will do whatever they want to do, as usual.

Re: 2008 Cobra Jets belong in Stock
 

Bill - Superfan1 & Ed,
Evan's car can run AA/S but would he have to add the weight to make AA/S and would have to weigh 3920. Not a practical race weight for AA/S.

Re: 2008 Cobra Jets belong in Stock
 

The Magnum Wedge planned for the Challenger Drag Pak isn't available in any production Challenger either (I know Challengers are not in the rulebook yet, Mustangs didn't make the book until the week the first production ones were built). Up until the Challenger Drag Pak, the Magnum 360 was a truck engine (no car applications). This one opens some options for GT super stockers!! Also look at the planned intake and TB on the Challenger - nothing you'll see in a factory street car but if it is part of the package being built and approved by NHRA then it is legal. Heck they haven't even offered the Magnum 360 engine in a few years in any vehicle.

Its the mid-late 60's all over again - stop bitchin and embrace it while it lasts.....