My First Look at the CJ's
 

Re: My First Look at the CJ's
 

Ken,

I am so glad that you posted this.

Thanks,

Daren

Re: My First Look at the CJ's
 

C'mon, Kenny what are the names of the new Cobra Jet pilots?

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Yes. Direct factory involvement will do wonders for sportsman drag racing. After all, look what it has done for NASCAR.

Be careful what you wish for, you just might get it.

Re: My First Look at the CJ's
 

Ken,

I'm looking forward to your having a chance to race one of these new cars heads-up, real soon, to see how much enthusiasm you still have for them after maybe getting a good look at the back end of one... from a distance.

If ANYBODY can beat them, it's your car, but with the factor being what it is, I'm not sure that's gonna happen. "If you can't beat 'em, join em" might, indeed, be the best plan.... Happy hunting! :)

Bill

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Amen, Alan

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Alan, to compare NASCAR to NHRA as far a stock is concerned is wrong in my opinion. And as far as be careful of what you wish for, I have been wishing for this a long time. Chad, I new you would agree with Alan on this one. You think my car is bogus and as well as the new CJ's. My car maybe bogus but I have never said it wasn't, unlike many racers who claim there car is just the way it came from the factory. To my knowledge, I do not remember late 60's and up Corvette's coming with a non independent rear, but hey, that's ok right, its only a rear not really bogus.

Bill, I can tell you right here and right now, in front of everyone. My enthusiasm will not change when I get my *** handed to me in class. I have been beat many times in the past, just ask Larry Hill.

I want these car out there, I wish GM could do the same. I want this class to survive and it needs the new cars to do so.

Bill, I can't run with them, no matter how much I step it up. They have me by a solid 2 tenths, but that's okay.

I race for enjoyment, yes I spend allot of money. But when it comes to life, you can not put a price on being happy and racing makes me happy. I am fortunate enough to do this and will be dammed if I let anything bring me down when I am racing. If the CJ's kick my butt, well I will just have to work harder, and I will have fun doing it.

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Ken, I really like your attitude! In regard to what you said, ME TOO, even if i'm a MOPAR fan! Racing is Racing!...........Later John

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GREAT ATTITUDE Ken. Thats what racing in this crazy thing called drag racing is all about.

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Ken when you had a REAL CAR you won some and lost some. With the car you have now I think you have only lost one time in NHRA class eliminations or heads up in the eliminator.
What changed beside lines on apiece of paper with a signature of a dottering old man?
I always thought you were a good competitor - win, lose, or draw. Please be easy on us less fortunate racers that "Santa" passed over and are still using heads cast in 1968.

Above all HAVE FUN

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Ken, your post is like a breath of fresh air. as a relatively new competitor to super stock. I love the class, and have had a great time in the last four years. Its not all doom and gloom like a group of people on here make it seem like, with constant crying,and complaining,
I would also like to say that I have never been more enthusiastic to race a Ford.

Colin

Re: My First Look at the CJ's
 

A quote thats hard to understand..If you have one of the best combos and are ok with to be outrun by 2 tenths by "street car" that that just scratched the surface... but ofcourse if you have one lined up for the future it's easier to understand..
They sure will have a "good life" with these CJ's for the next decade..congrats to everyone having or building one...lets just hope that all other racers have the same attitude and spirit as Kenny if they get outran by a good margin and keep on being out there.. "having fun"...all for "the good of the sport"..

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Thanks John, Terry. Colin, I hope to meet with you some day at the races. I'm glad to see your as excited as I when it comes to factory involvement.

Larry, Larry....... When I started to run my car back in '87 it was a 68 Cobra jet. I was regularly out run by the 396's and 440's by two tenths. it was only after 10 years that I got close to all you guys. Did I give up....hell no, I was dragracing, having a blast. So I lost when it came to heads up racing, I was still doing what I love. I am sure everyone has heard this saying before, " Life is not fair, what makes you think NHRA will be" I roll with the punches and try to get the most out of life.

My car may have come from paper, but the last time I looked at the record books I was not in it, not even my combo. The 396 can step up when they have to. Larry, would you like me to list all of the parts they did not come on your car, the 396's, I can go on and on. I may have more then some, but my car is no faster then any of the top cars out there. Would it make you and all the Shelby haters happy if I just parked the car. Stock will never be what it once was or what some think it was, that's a fact and we all have to live with it.

Larry, its not personal, and I hope you don't take it that way. We need to have fun. I think your combo should have less hp on it and I think you should have enhanced parts for what its worth.

bsa633, I guess I have answered your question about being out run. been there done that, I can deal with it.

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I can attest to the independent rear on the Vettes. If it wasn't for those rear ends someone else would have won the W.R. Grace Cup in 1980.
John. Mopar is back as a sponsor Thank God otherwise I would make $50 for a class win.

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There really would be no need to "save" Stock if it had not been run into the ground by nhra. Yes, these new cars are neat and they will usher in a new theme for Stock. But nhra did not have to demolish what was left of the existing structure to "save" Stock. I have heard the new Mopar cars can make AA to I classes.

The old cars are on their way out and the new and improved Stock will soon feature $100,000.00 "Stock" packages. Most of the older cars will be running over at IHRA if they don't lose their heads over these new cars.

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Yo Ken go get em, I would like to know one thing everybody worrys about getting beat on a heads up run in the elim how many times will that really happen in a season? How many times have you been beat by a bogus car 5 ths. under that has never been apart by NHRA? I would bet there are more bogus cars that can't run a second under than the fast ones everybody talk about. Is it ok to get beat by them? I also saw a post on here that a 427 chev it away won't make 700hp well your wrong folks, I think you know where it is to ken, but thats a story for another day.

Dale Shannon

Re: My First Look at the CJ's
 

Hey Dale,

Sometimes I need to vent, and this was the time. I know that 427 very well, and it does make that kind of power. I here it will be ready for e-town. Class will sure be interesting. There is also a new CJ in the northeast. it should be out soon.

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The old cars are on their way out? Didn't Bruce's car just get refactored for being too fast within the last two -years? Not bad for a 35+ year-old car!

Look, the argument of new cars being under/over factored has been around since factoring began. You can't just stick your head in the sand and not let new cars into the class.

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Dale,
That 427 does not make 700 Horsepower.

Earle,
I got my horsepower the old fashioned way. I earned it!

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No 427/425 Chevrolet will make 700HP on an honest dyno. If it would, a 427/425 powered car could run at least 9.75 at sea level in A trim. I've seen some fast 427/425 powered cars, but I've never seen one run 9.75 or faster at sea level in A trim.

Stock may need some help, but if you think that the manufacturers are coming to the rescue with altruistic notions in their head, you're sure to be terribly disappointed. They'll bring money alright, and maybe a little attention. Along with plenty of B.S., games, and politics. It'll be everything Stock does not need.

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I understand that you worked for years on that combo, but whether you earn it or not, cars still get refactored if they go "too fast." The same concerns were there when the new Firebirds came out and over time they have been brought into line.

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Hey Bruce not to get in a pissing contest with ya, just saying what I here and SEE! I guess we will just wait and see in the near furture. But remember I told you soo. Why has no one commented about getting beat by a bogus slow car?

DaleShannon

Re: My First Look at the CJ's
 

So, this is supposedly a legal iron head 427/425 on an honest dyno?

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Alan, yes and yes, still nobody says its ok to get beat by a bogus slow car.

Dale Shannon

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Congratulate him, he's got at least 75HP on anyone I know of, and I know quite a few 427/425 people, and he's got well over a hundred on us. I look forward to seeing him go a 9.75 at sea level and A weight. If he proves he's got 700HP, we'll all get 3% the next Tuesday, even if he's running in AA.


Bogus is bogus, win lose or draw. A bogus car on the ladder affects every other car.

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Dale good to know that you are alive and kicking.

Colin, I am like you; Im always enthusiastic to race a Ford. I dont beat them often, but still like to race them.

Ken Ken Ken you know one thing about me, I leave nothing in the trailer. What Parts????

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I looked at the same car today.It's pretty complete for a race car,and no doubt you can get the car and be competitive right away.It's put togther well,and you can tell a lot of thought went into it's construction.Comparing the Ford to the new Challenger Drag Pak,I can see which way Mopar decided to go with their war plan.I haven't seen a Drag Pak in person,just pictures,but when the Challengers are completed,they will competitive with the Fords.IMHO,the cost will be about the same,maybe a bit less with the Dodge.Ford did their homework with the Mustang to offer the car as complete as it is.

And Larry Hill is right,the Mopars have never received any "gifts" in the cylinder head department.If Edelbrock, 440 Source,Indy etc ever produces a head with the stock valve size,then we will have finally got a present worth keeping.

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Larry,

I am also enthusiastic to race a Dodge. lol

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Larry, your intake and the hood you used to run. I guess the mopar's guys will tell me that the aluminum intake was an option as well as a 340 six pack hood. I guess mopar ran out of intakes and hoods mid year. I have no problem what parts you can use. In fact your engine combo is a good one, but I do think you should be rated less. You have more cubes and more carbs, while I have more cam and higher compression. I'm willing to put my car at the same weight and run heads anytime you like.

Alan, you are so far off when it comes to Ford's involvement in racing. You maybe be an expert when it comes to GM, but you no nothing about how Ford operates. Yes selling cars is job one, but finding every niche market that works is a high priority and let me tell you they are here to stay.

In the glorified days of the sixties that all the old timers talk about, Ford did the exact same thing as did other manufactures. It was good for stock back then and its good for stock today. I just wish GM would do the same.

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Ken, with all due respect, corporate America is corporate America, they do whatever they can, and whatever they get away with. GM is no different than Ford, which is no different than Chrysler. The old days are gone, it is all about the dollar, and the bottom line. They are not there to save Stock, they are there to sell cars. So is Chrysler, and if GM shows up, they'll be no different. They'll do the same thing in Stock as they do in any other form of motorsports. The difference is,there are a lot of "little people" who will get trampled in the process. A lot more than in NASCAR, or any other "big league motorsports." Human nature is human nature, and where money is concerned, human nature in corporate America can be as low as it gets. It would be wonderful if they had altruistic notions and motives about riding in like the cavalry to save the day, but it just ain't so. They're there to make money, and the more of their money they spend to make money, the more they'll be willing to do anything to ensure their success.

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Alan, I respect your opinion, but I do not agree with it. If your read my post, I said its about selling cars. Its always about selling cars. But if racers can benefit, I think its good. You talk about the little guy, well I hate to tell you this but stock is not a cheap class to run especially in the upper classes. As I cruise the pits in Gainesville, the average racing operation is well over $100,000. There is lots of money out there in spite of the economy. Racing its not like the sixties were you took you new car, put slicks and headers and went to the track. Like it or not Alan, the little guy is going to have a tough time trying to race NHRA. There are some slow combos that probably can be run for under $50,000 for there whole operation, but that's not happing in the upper classes.

I have never fooled myself about corporate America, but I, unlike you, do let something I have no control over bring me down. Like Bob Frey once told me. If you can't control something why worry about it, if you can, then there is nothing to worry about.

Fight the good fight Alan according to what you believe, but I will make the best out of what has been offered to us. NHRA may not be perfect, but its the only game in town. I can not imagine how hard it is to run an organization of this size. We all beat them up, but until I walk in there shoes I really have no right to question there decision, only try to give them advice.

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Absolutely Ken. It's always been about selling cars..."win on Sunday, sell on Monday." I think Ford sees an opening right now when other car Co's are pulling back, Ford is stepping in to take market share and build a new following...good for them!

Futhermore, NHRA stock/superstock are still the best classes in drag racing...along with Comp eliminator.

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Ken That sounds like a FUN thing to do.

To make it interesting I will run my car off of the 6/29/72 engine blue print specs. and you need to run yours from the 6/26/74 specs.

This should limit the "enhancements" and allow us to have a lot of FUN!

Let me know what you think

Larry

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Larry, I don't want to give up my enhancements. You win this round. Its to much work to go back to those days.

Seriously Larry, I think your combo should have the same enhancements I have. I do not have a problem with any combo that can get the best parts. Its not right, but you could always build a Shelby and then we could have a good battle, you can even paint it pink.

Start working on NHRA for some aluminum heads, who knows they might be in the giving mode.

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Thanks, Ken. I needed a smile on this cold, rainy day! Are you coming to Belle Rose since you are already south? We can sit around and drink beer and you can tell me how they do it up north!

For us to get some better parts, I need the picture of Jim and the goat!

Larry

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Ken,
I'm well aware of how much it costs to run Stock, in fact, I'm painfully aware. I probably will not be able to field a car on my own, at least not in the foreseeable future. I drove a car last year that belonged to a friend I do a lot of work for. That car is gone, and I won't have a ride for a while, maybe a long while, who knows. But believe me, I know exactly what it costs to build an upper class car that runs a decent number. I know exactly what it costs to buy a motorhome and a trailer, or a dooley and a living quarters trailer.

I'm actually glad that there are guys like the ones you meet and you deal with, those guys really are car lovers and gear heads. Those guys I like, regardless of brand. It does not matter who they work for. Those guys are not corporate America.

It is their bosses that are corporate America that will do the harm. The guys in the board rooms and the stock holders' meetings are the ones who have the final say, and they have only one thing in mind, money. Their only interest is how much money they can make, and they don't care how they make it.

The corporate view from a manufacturer on sportsman racing is no different than the corporate view from NHRA on sportsman racing. How good a job has NHRA been doing at taking care of Stock?

Don't get me wrong, it would be nice if all that it took to help Stock was some corporate interest and some corporate cash. But what Stock needs is more participation and even more important, more spectator interest. A few "new" cars and a couple of big splashes in the media won't do it. The only people that will attract will be yawning 15 minutes later, and 30 minutes later they'll be looking for something else new.

There's not going to be any "magic pill" in the form of a "rebirth of the factory HP wars of the sixties" to save Stock. And when the new wears off of it, that money will be gone, and so will the people it drew. But worse yet, the people that were already here, and got turned off or run off, will be gone, and they won't come back.

Look at how many people have left when something came along and rendered their stuff obsolete, and never came back. Even the people with plenty of money, who have $200K in a racing operation, are going to have $75K of it become obsolete. That $75K becomes $30K overnight. And then they'll need to spend another $75K to be competitive again. You can bet more of them will leave than will pony up. Then what?

And there aren't too many from the next generations who have $200K to jump in, and even if they do, most of them are not inclined to do so.

The only people who can help Stock and Super Stock now are the racers and their real friends. The "big three" aren't going to save us, regardless of how nice and wonderful that would be.

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Alan,

Who has EVER gave you the idea that the OEMs were trying to save stock?

I think it is great that the OEMs are giving recognition and appreciation to the sportsman racers. Sounds like a good marketing tool for both of us. Your constant voiced negativity towards NHRA and corporate America IMO will be the thing that destroys the hobby that you love.

Colin

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Colin,
Several people have voiced the opinion that the new interest of the OEMs will be the thing that helps Stock. I disagree.

I'm not completely negative on NHRA, when they are right I give them credit, when they are wrong, I say so. The same applies to corporate America. When they are right, they are right, and they deserve credit for it. When they are wrong they are wrong, and deserve to be called out for it. A wise man once said, "Remain silent when things are wrong and you are part of the problem."

I have to ask, as I haven't seen one, has Ford made ANY commercials to be shown on TV featuring the new CJ, and especially John Calvert winning Pomona with one in the debut race? I'm looking at it from a marketing stand point. In fact, that is exactly the point I'm looking at it from.

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I wonder how much the "corporate" guys actually had to do with these cars? I bet it took a lot to get them past the bean counters. I really doubt that the bean counters and shareholders were the driving force behind a project that is this small.

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Alan,

I do not no of any TV commercials of the sort, There was some nice articles printed within the racing world though. I would think that at the events this year it would be played up, that is were the largest fan base is. It’s the little things that make a difference Last year at Indy I received a phone call from Brian Wolfe congratulating me on my efforts for class; I did not win but gave it my best effort. That sort of thing goes a long way for me.

Colin