cam degreeing help
 

I am having a problem degreeing my cam, I degree my cams all the time never had this problem. I can go 2 to 8 degrees advance or retarded and all I get is the same results 109-110 degrees, is something binding somewhere.

Re: cam degreeing help
 

Are you sure that your timing wheel is on the crankshaft.... not on the camshaft. You would get the result you described if your timing wheel in on the cam.
:)

Re: cam degreeing help
 

Degree wheel is on the crank , have double checked tdc several times to make sure it was right.

Re: cam degreeing help
 

That's a good one.All that I can think of may be a sticky needle or plunger on your dial indicator.And make sure that the stem of the indicator is on the same angle as the valve stem.I have had the stem of the indicator ride into the "dish" of the retainer and give you bad readings.Good luck. You will figure it out!

Re: cam degreeing help
 

I have the heads off and got the indicator reading off the edge of lifter.

Re: cam degreeing help
 

Check your dial indicator. I had problems with the one I got with my Comp Cams Degree Wheel kit.

Re: cam degreeing help
 

I would also check to the opening and closing spec @.050", always afraid of asymmetrical lobes skewing the numbers.

Re: cam degreeing help
 

Dial Ind. is good, tried different lifters, I am wondering if it is my timing chain setup, I am using the cloyes hex adjust setup. Anybody had a problem with them.

Re: cam degreeing help
 

not implying anything, but is the math right? made the mistake once of subtracting the 2 numbers instead of adding them and dividing by 2.

Re: cam degreeing help
 

Make sure that you take all of the stretch out of the chain.

Re: cam degreeing help
 

I saw the fact that you have the tip of the dial indicator on the lip of the lifter, correct? We are talking about an 1/8 in. of material that the indicator is is resting on and it has a curved surface, is this the case?

Re: cam degreeing help
 

yes lifter is on the edge ,and it is not sliding off, checked it.

Re: cam degreeing help
 

Terry , Put the chain on a whole crank tooth off and see what you get.

Re: cam degreeing help
 

I had to look that setup up.
http://www.cloyes.com/HighPerformanc...S/Default.aspx

You can actually see the cam advance with that set up. Something has to be slipping or moving to cause an incorrect reading.

Re: cam degreeing help
 

Terry could you describe briefly the procedure you're using? I've been watching this thread and am interested in the outcome. Thanks Joe

Re: cam degreeing help
 

Mark,Tried the one tooth off, did not help.Had degree bushing set at zero. Checked my degree wheel readings, first reading was 56 went to other reading it was164, total is220 divided is 110, same as all my readings. Never had a problem degreeing before.

Re: cam degreeing help
 

I've never seen it happen, but I suppose it is possible that the bushing does not have any offset in it. When you loosen the bolts and turn the adjuster bushing, can you actually see the bolts move in the center of the gear? I have the same type timing set on one of our 427 engines, it works just fine. I am changing to the fast adjust, I like it better, but the hex adjust works fine.

Re: cam degreeing help
 

Alan, yes you can see the bolts moving back and forth when you move the bushing. I am begging to wonder if the stud that the cam bushing sits on is bent, and is causing binding problems when I tighten it back up.

Re: cam degreeing help
 

It would be hard to get a really bent dowel pin into the bushing.

Re: cam degreeing help
 

Did you unscrewed the tip out of your Dial indicator so it will Lay flat on your Lifter?

Re: cam degreeing help
 

Terry i have heard of the stock type balancer ,where the outer ring is slipping
inrelation to the inner ring, so no matter what you do , when the engine is turned over
the TDC mark can slip or move a few degrees. Never saw it personally but have
heard of it.

Re: cam degreeing help
 

Stop and think about what you have done so far----try a new lifter, possibly a different balancer ,also use a different dial indicator see what happens---- I know that this next idea will not give you a correct number but pick a different cylinder to try degreeing see if the same error occurs, if it does not ,then something is wrong with the valve train on number 1 cylinder otherwise you might have a bad dial indicator or degree wheel or pointer, timing chain set up or whatever---at least you might eliminate/ isolate some of the possible variables---- Comp 387

Re: cam degreeing help
 

Have you tried a different timing set? Leave degree wheel where its at and try #6 cylinder and see what you get! I don't know about you but this would drive me crazy good luck.........Shawn

Re: cam degreeing help
 

Terry,at what reading from max lobe lift are you taking your readings? I have never heard of moving gear 1 entire tooth and not seeing a different reading,perhaps your not coming far enough back from the "nose" of the lobe to get a real number, just a thought. Joe

Re: cam degreeing help
 

Terry, I've seen guys "degree" cams incorrectly by using the degree wheel and math incorrectly that winds up measuring the lobe center of the camshaft rather than the relative position of the cam lobe to the crankshaft. No matter how advanced or retarded the cam is installed the cam lobe center does not change. When you degree the cam in degree BOTH intake and exhaust and mark the degree wheel with whiteout and you'll easily see the BTDC and the ATDC positions and I'll think you'll see what I mean. Good Luck...

Re: cam degreeing help
 

for what it is worth, I find it much easier to check intake centerline off a valve spring retainer. Since nothing so far has worked, consider mocking up a head with a checking spring on #1 intake valve. Install the pushrod, intake rocker, set approximate lash, and indicate off the retainer.

Let us know what happens.

Re: cam degreeing help
 

Because you are using the lip of the lifter, make absolutely sure the dial indicator is not walking around the radius of the lifter. Look very closely. I would try taking the point off of the dial indicator and try using the flat. This will give you more surface area for the lifter to ride on.

Re: cam degreeing help
 

Timing chain setup is new, tried different lifters,got a new and bigger degree wheel, will try the different dial ind.changes and the degree wheel, see what happens , will let you know.

Re: cam degreeing help
 

Terry Jim B has something there. If you don't find it PM. me i can help.

Re: cam degreeing help
 

I had a problem with a timing chain on a friend's 360 last summer.We kept getting a reading of 130 for a centerline, tried another chain and got 106.

Re: cam degreeing help
 

Terry, any update? Just wondering what you may have found. Unsolved mysteries really attract my attention. Just a note you can download the instruction to degree a cam off Comp. cams site, not that you're doing it wrong but it never hurts to reread the instructions. Good luck. Joe

Re: cam degreeing help
 

Have tried everything everybody has suggested with no results. I am degreeing exactly the way comp cams talks about. I have comp cams 4-7cam does that have to be degreed differently. I know I am getting tired of not getting this, been working on this for 2 weeks. I could have had my motor running by now.

Re: cam degreeing help
 

The 4-7 swap does not reqire any different method to degree in. Sent PM Joe

Re: cam degreeing help
 

Terry,
I would suggest you get another set of eyeballs to watch what you are doing. For some reason I remember having a similar problem a few years ago after a very long day. I dont remember what I was doing wrong but after a good nights rest it was a definite "DOH" the next morning. I am almost positive it was something I was doing wrong adding and subtracting numbers.

Re: cam degreeing help
 

If you get the same result by doing this you clearly built in a "mistake" in your doings..same as Bill K i had my moments when i just was too tired...

Re: cam degreeing help
 

I want to thank all the racers for trying to help me, I got the problem straightened out.

Re: cam degreeing help
 

Well clue us all in, we all have been following this thread ......what was the problem ?

Re: cam degreeing help
 

The problem was when I did my first reading of the degree wheel it was right, but when I did my second reading I was reading it the opposite way so the numbers were always higher and almost always the same. I am right on now, tried different degrees just to make sure everything is working fine. Just a dumb mistake that I hate to admit to.

Re: cam degreeing help
 

Dont feel bad we have all at one time or another done the same thing, there is alot going on at one time and its easy to get a bad reading. Its called the "school of hard knocks"