Suspension help
 

I have a 69 Chevelle wagon that is a "natural" K car. It is a stocker and the suspension is the same set up from when W A Lee owned it as far as I know. When making any turn the body leans over greatly. The rear had one air bag on the right when I bought it and the front end lifted the left front off the track and the right stayed on the ground. I installed an air bag to the left and ran about 15 lbs on the left and about 30 on the right and it picked both front tires about 8 inches on the launch. I would like to update the suspension front and rear but I am curious about the way the car leans(scared the heck out of the local fire dept at one race on the turn off!). I have been told that the lower ball joints must have been lenghtened for the car to lean like that. Is that correct? Also notice that when the front tires are off the ground they appear to be straight not cambered in or out like so many cars I have seen. Is this set up good or bad.
Thanks to any and all help you gentlemen can give me. Not looking to set any records just want to be competitive..........lot's of luck!!
Phil Daly
K/SA 1686

Re: Suspension help
 

Off the ground and straight is a good thing assuming they are straight when their when on the ground. Sounds like a good setup.

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I have a 69 Kingswood O/SA and it does the same. The rear has a spool in it and when u turn it makes it lean. Both wheels turn the same...no slipage.:rolleyes:

Re: Suspension help
 

Most of the bracket cars that I have seen with coil springs on the rear, lean when they turn. Most have spools also,. guess that's normal. Most leave the line flat also. Most with air bags.

Re: Suspension help
 

the leaning you describe is a basic characteristic for that suspension style. [basically, you have the car sitting on four coil springs with nothing to control "body roll"]

A rear "anti-roll bar" will cure the leaning and make the car overall more stable. It is very likely that a properly installed and properly adjusted anti-roll bar will allow removing the air bags.

Please correct me if I am mistaken, I think a bolt on kit is legal.

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My brother and I have basically the same car as you (Ours is a 71 Chevelle wagon, natural K/SA). The leaning is the result of using a 90-10 shock on the front. Also it is a result of not having sway control as stated by Dragsinger. The leaning is normal. I am assuming that your car leans over when turning and when you get it straight and burp the throttle, the front end will come back to normal ride height. If it stays leaning, there is a problem somewhere in the front suspension mechanicals.

Re: Suspension help
 

I have an A body. A C/SA 1970 Chevelle. If you are using the stock suspension, you will have the A body lean.

My suggestion is to call Alf Weibe. He has the A Body suspension wired. I have been using his parts for seven years. His supension launches straight without any lean. I have seen others that have a straight launching car without his suspension. They are rare and require a lot of work. I wanted a perfect launch out of the box. He has really helped me make my car fast and straight.

The NHRA has lately been giving him a hard time. I understand that he has a solution that is acceptable to the NHRA tech department

Here is his email: wiebemetal@shaw.ca

Rick Kagawa

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Is Alf, producing GM "A" body suspension systems/components again?

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i dont know if he is building stuff, or just has stock on the shelf. i have just gotten his front end kit over the winter, by the way the front pieces are works of art. if the email doesnt work pm me i have his phone #

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The tires are straight when on the ground. I am going to get it re-aligned as since the roll bar was installed it "wanders" a little down track.

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I do have 90-10's on the front and 70-30's rear. Yes once straightening out the car comes back to level. Thanks for the help.

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Thanks for the help Dragsinger. A rear sway bar might control the handling since the roll bar was added. Down track it wanders a little and sometimes moves left when braking in the shut down area. I am assuming that the roll bar installation lessens "normal" body flex (it's welded to the frame),

Re: Suspension help
 

If you're getting it realigned you had better find out what it was setup to beforehand, at least if you plan to take it to a normal alignment shop, because they'll want to set it to stock specs, and it will likely make your problem worse.

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When you say wandering, are you sawing on the steering wheel or are you feeling the instability in your seat?

Re: Suspension help
 

www.hrpartsnstuff.com bolt on antiroll bar ;)

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Slight steering wheel movement, more like a feeling of the car floating around. It also wants to move to the right when i lift at the top end. Prior to the roll bar being installed it was much more of an easier ride. It used to run nice and straight with a relaxed grip on the wheel.....now I keep a firm grip on it.

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Thanks for the link. I'll check it out. :)

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I am going to have someone take a picture of it at the finish line and figure out how high the front end is and when getting it aligned have the front raised up to that height and set camber at zero,toe as close to zero and caster positive about 5 degrees. Does that sound anywhere near right?

Re: Suspension help
 

Phil, I've sold a number of the BMR Xtreme Sway bars to CMDR members.
Check out the pictures from last weekends race @ NED on Actionracingphotos.com

Rick Kagawa is "Dead-On" about Alf Weibe's supension system!

Call The "Golddigger" Jim Boudreau for an alignment!

Re: Suspension help
 

He ought to be able to align it as he bought it from W A Lee in '78. The picture of it on here is with his old paint job still on it in 2000.
Thanks for the info Greg.

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I would try to verify that the chassis is straight and true. The addition of a rollbar shouldn't have caused the problems unless it was installed with chassis not level and well supported if you know what I mean. Or maybe the chassis was tweaked before the rollbar was installed and was corrected and the alignment will bring the handleing back Good luck.

Re: Suspension help
 

A couple of comments; Was the guy who put the roll cage in a reputable, experienced race car fabricator? If a roll bar is not put in the car correctly it can pre-load the chassis and cause a bunch of problems. The movement to the right upon shut down sounds like front end alignment to me. When you get your car aligned get a 4 wheel alignment. The rear end can be out of alignment and cause launch maladys.

Our cage was put in our car by Mike Pustelney. He also set up the rear. Since Mike does not do front end alignments, he told me to have my alignment guy to try to get these specs: 1) Castor - As much positive castor as you can get so as long as both sides are equal. 2) Camber - Set to zero. 3) Toe - Set toe 1/16" out on the right and 1/16" on the left for a total of 1/8"

Mike Pustelney is the man when it comes to chassis building. I think a lot of guys on this forum can attest to Mike P's experience. Good luck.

Re: Suspension help
 

The guy who put in the roll bar has done them before. Now that I think about it he did replace some rusted floor panels before installing the bar. He had the car suspended with 4 jack stands during all the work. Maybe the frame got miss aligned when replacing the floors before putting in the bars. :confused:

Re: Suspension help
 

Except for the toe I guess I wasn't too far off. I forgot to mention that the front end (before I owned it) was set up "longer" on one side by 1/2 inch for roll out. I know Moog has "dog bones" that are made for worn upper control arms that give you 5 degrees more caster over stock. I was thinking of getting those.
Thank you for the help and I need all the luck I can get.........lol.
The people on here are very helpful and I really appreciate all the advice. Thank you all. :)

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Was the front and rear end hanging free in the air or was the vehicle weight placed on the the control arms and rear end to simulate it being on the ground?

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The tires were touching but he had the suspension fully extended. There was not weight on the tires(the slicks and front tires were with no sign of pressure on them. I have a feeling that is not good? I assume that means the chassis was flexed some what.

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Wagons have Boxed Frames, the replacement of floors wouln't make a difference unless the body mounts were were replaced.
I'd contact a chassis builder with a table or chassis beams to check and see if the frame is tweaked?
G

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Rick they check the chevelle i drove at houston said alfs stuff is not legal. Jim Hanig

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I always thought the correct way to install a roll cage is to have the wheels planted firmly on a level surface but, I am not a pro chassis builder. I agree with Greg, contact a good chassis builder and have him check the frame for straightness. Floor pan replacement on your car should have no effect on the chassis. If you have a unibody it is a different story.

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Much thanks to you and all who took the time to answer my questions. You guys are great! Wish me luck in trying to get her out this year.
Phil

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Chevelle Wagon, the more you described your activities,the more info you gave to help yourself. I have a '68 Chevelle wagon,327/250-245 O/SA car, it's the red one in the Tony Janes Race Cars photo section. That thing drives itself. It's the easiest car to drive I've ever seen. Make sure the wheelbase is the same both sides, 0 to +1/2 on the camber with the car on the ground, 1/8 total toe with the car on the ground,0" with the front end 4" up, and 2 1/2 to 3 degrees caster will make this car go very straight. Roll bar shouldn't have changed anything, but the car should have been on its wheels when the bar was welded in.Floor pans being replaced shouldn't have changed anything. Our wagon has had new pans. The floor is isolated from the frame with the factory body bushings. Make sure these are all good and tight.These cars are pretty easy to make work. What do you suppose that the 455 Vista Cruiser guys went through with those things corkscrewing into the night? Good luck,keep us posted.

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Thank you for the specs and the help Greg. It may not get done right away with money being tight but I will keep you guys up dated when I can. As I said earlier you guys are very helpful with the info and I really appreciate all your help.
I plan to check with Jim Boudreau about the set up as I believe he is the one who did the most work on it after purchasing it from W A Lee.

Phil Daly

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The other day, someone posted that Alf had an updated version that he had an NHRA letter of approval for. The previous version was legal for a while, but NHRA revised their position and forced a change, I think the grace period was over the first of this month, or will be over as of the first of next month.

I've heard conflicting reports, did they tell you specifically what was actually illegal about it?

By the way, I looked several times over the last couple of days, and cannot find the post about Alf's new NHRA approved stuff. It had a picture of an NHRA approval letter. It was hereon the boards for a while, but now it is either gone or I just can't find it.

Re: Suspension help
 

Recently went through my 69 chevelle ss new ball joints, control arm bushings. Had 4 whell alinment done, discovered rear end 1/8 out of square corected. Front end was alined as Greg Reimer told you. Thanks to Barrie Frame and alinment. Can push 3700 lbs. 15 psi in slicks with one hand. Good luck

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Alf now has a NHRA APPROVED system.
He's doing his best to build V3 kits as soon as he can.

If you're one of his customers, he'll tell you "specifically" what needs to be done!

Re: Suspension help
 

http://www.hrpartsandstuff.com

# 1471 - Super Swaybar / Anti-Roll system for '68-'72 GM A-Body with GM 10 or 12 bolt housing (3" axle tubes):

Re: Suspension help
 

I bought Wojo`s Wine Wagon( a clone to yours)
it sits down on the left front
no air in the bag in the RR
goes straight
Would love to talk
Mike
A114 O;P/SA

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X2 and this car hooks in a car wash. LOTS of products for these cars and I think the HR stuff is reasonable and works deep into the 8's. I would use the fixed lowers and uppers with the urethane bushings. Keep the shocks simple I have seen lots of guys spend $250 a shock and pick up nada. Paul (the owner) is always helpful

Kevin

Re: Suspension help
 

I just stumble upon this thread and i have a question about front suspension. we have a 68 chevelle 396 325 car and when we are stalling on the starting line the front wants to raise how can that be cured?? The more the stall the higher the front fender goes on the hit it does great we would just like to have the front settled as we are staging

Re: Suspension help
 

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