.031" Dykes or .043" Rings ?
 

Gonna put new lighter pistons in the 331 (327) , I know im gonna go with a 3mm oil ring. I know im gonna go with a .043" napier second ring

Here the thing, Should i go with an .031" Pressure Back Dykes Top Ring or an .043" .155" radial ring with lateral gas ports ?

Engine Combo..........
- 4.030" bore GM block, filled with Hardblok, Milodon Splayed Main Caps with Milodon Main Studs, using ARP head studs too
-Bryant billet 4340 3.26" stroke 40 pound crankshaft , 350 main size with 2" rod pin and big block chevy snout
-GRP aluminum rods 478grams 349grams big end 129grams beam end , ARP 3/8" 8740 rod bolts
-Crane Solid Roller Cam 308/314 @.020" 278/284 @.050" 200/206 @.200" .670"/.670" 106 lobe seperation, Mikronite processed, 1-8-7-2-6-5-4-3 (4/7 & 2/3 firing order swap)
-Shaft Rockers with 5/8" shaft
-Jesel Belt Drive

Pistons will be 2618, They will be lightweight plus they will have some work done to them by Rebco Machine to lighten them up

Here are my options on rings, give me your opinions
1) .031" Dykes
2) .043" .155" radial moly ring with gas ports
3) .043" .134" radial AP ring with gas ports
4) Other, make suggestion

Piston weight should be around 400grams plus wrist pin which should be around 95grams. Pistons will use a pretty good dome size due to 62cc heads and .040" quench

Re: .031" Dykes or .043" Rings ?
 

NO to Dykes
.043 lateral gasports wins hands down, AP will last longer, But make sure you make the backspace correct for whatever ring you use...

Re: .031" Dykes or .043" Rings ?
 

The pistons will be cut so there is .005" back space

Why dont you like the .031" Dykes ring ?

Re: .031" Dykes or .043" Rings ?
 

too heavy / ring flutter... also dont really start working till high RPM and then we have the flutter...

Re: .031" Dykes or .043" Rings ?
 

I have never had any issues with them, maybe thats because the leave rpm has always been 6,000rpm and up

Yes they do smoke some until gas loading at higher rpm, have noticed this

Re: .031" Dykes or .043" Rings ?
 

I have tried just about everything out there, and for my money I choose the 5/64 back-cut top and second ring with the low tension oil ring by Tri-City Competition Service, for a stocker motor that is with the 5/64 ring lands. Call Greg Luneack @ 760-630-9094 He will fix you up, and he is a great guy to deal with.

Re: .031" Dykes or .043" Rings ?
 

Jim,

Thats the kit with the gas ported spacers and thin narrow rings below the spacer , all in the 5/64" groove ?

Anyways the engine im doing is not a stocker so i can go with any ring i wish. You use the .8mm or 1.2mm ring with the spacers ?

The 3 rings i listed were what i thought about going with

Hey, maybe the 5/64" groove with gas ported spacer will knock some weight out ?????????

Thanks for the contact info

Re: .031" Dykes or .043" Rings ?
 

.043 With lateral gas ports.
.043Napier second ring.
3mm oil is good
The key to the whole package is a good straight hone with the correct profile.

Good Luck

Re: .031" Dykes or .043" Rings ?
 

Sorrt trmnatr, I should have completely read your post before I jumped in with my 2 cents worth.
I was talking about a stocker motor that had to use 5/64 ring lands.
I'm sure you would probably want to use something different for what you are building.
Good luck.

Re: .031" Dykes or .043" Rings ?
 

Vertical gas ports ?

Re: .031" Dykes or .043" Rings ?
 

[QUOTE=RPinoski1;117276].043 With no lateral gas ports. Lateral ports create a vacuum leak on the intake stroke so now not the way to go anymore.
Napier second ring with twice the end gap as the top ring. Eliminates top ring flutter.
Remember: This type of ring as with all secong rings is for oil control only hence the larger end gap.
-------------------------------------Quote


Vacuum leak on the intake stroke, not so... look at the top ring after run and you will see wear mark on the bottom inside whare it seals on the intake stroke... also second ring, especially napier not only controls oil but its reverse taper face aids the intake charge...

Re: .031" Dykes or .043" Rings ?
 

quote from Robert Pare's music book,
"Iisten to that Whitaker guy, he's built a couple of motors"

Re: .031" Dykes or .043" Rings ?
 

Bub Whitaker: You have a private message.

Re: .031" Dykes or .043" Rings ?
 

.043 pro series .155 rings with vertical gas ports would be far better than the dykes and proper ring clearance would be a key factor also. There are also diamond finished rings which would be a great option. There are some other options that are popular on these piston I can explain to you if you want to call me. take care 316-775-7771

Re: .031" Dykes or .043" Rings ?
 

Well Patterson, looks like we are in agreeance as far as .043 with lateral gas ports, regardless of radial wall over Dykes ... you take care also...

Re: .031" Dykes or .043" Rings ?
 

My LT-1 had 1/16" top ring grooves and I used std. top rings with cutback seconds and very low tension oils......I have used the .031" dykes with spacers in a 5/64" groove if I remember right in my 350/255 back in the '90's......Do the .043" rings go in a 1/16" groove with spacers.....and the rings are where the gas port grooves are cut ? .......the spacer would be pretty thin and I have no experience or knowledge of the gas ported ring setup. Just curious about this and I might need the knowledge for a future Stocker engine project for someone else........

Re: .031" Dykes or .043" Rings ?
 

Well Patterson and Bub, i too agree with you guys,,,,Total Seal now can supply you with Gas Ported spacers to go with the .043 Top Ring. I haven't seen this metioned but, it is illegal to machine Lateral Gas Ports in a Stocker piston,,,sooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!! The .043 Diamond Cut ring or 1/16 or 5/64 Diamond cut is the way to go but, a little pricey!

Re: .031" Dykes or .043" Rings ?
 

I'm suprised at the poll resuslts. Didnt know anybody still used dykes rings.

Re: .031" Dykes or .043" Rings ?
 

I used the .031 dykes ring ordered , tight and lapped all 8 for a s/s motor,worked great ,alot of time and sore fingers ,does anybody still do this today,

Re: .031" Dykes or .043" Rings ?
 

What about the .7 & .8 mm rings & 2 mm oil rings for engines in the 8,000-10,000 rpm range?

Re: .031" Dykes or .043" Rings ?
 

Just to let everyone know that PMS in San Antonio, Texas, owned and operated by non other than Adrian ( Pudgy) Pendergrass makes a very nice set up to Gas Port the Spacers. If you have access to a mill its a piece of cake to do it yourself and save some money. 210-681-2405

Re: .031" Dykes or .043" Rings ?
 

I vote for vacuum pump and no second rings :)

Re: .031" Dykes or .043" Rings ?
 

Ed Wright Quote: I'm suprised at the poll resuslts. Didnt know anybody still used dykes rings.
__________________
Ed,
The Dykes work very well in a blown or pressurized cylinder. When doing some research for the A/Fuel combination I help put together I found out they work where the cylinder is flooded with fuel that is being injected at real high pressure. I'm not so sure I would use them in a N/A engine where other ring combos are available. Esp an engine with no crancase Vac. Ed, call me and I'll explain 903 794 7223 , 903 824 4924 cell.

OH, Butch how many other boards/forums do you have your ring poll on?
Will you share their results with the members here?

Re: .031" Dykes or .043" Rings ?
 

Adger here and SpeedTalk,,,,

My whole reason was I always use 1/16" 1/16" 3/16" in a bracket type engine, in an engine like this I have always used Speed-Pro .031" Pressure Back (Dykes) 1/16" 3/16" oil rings,,,, I have seen increased wall wear with 0.043" with gas ports one time so I never visited the area again

I started this thread and the one on SpeedTalk, it seems SpeedTalk's builders prefer .043" and here its mixed

So I have not found a good enough reason to go with the .043"

I stuck with the .031" Pressure back top ring with 1/16" x .140" Napier second and 3/16" oil ring with larger oil return holes and SS50U 5-10 pound oil ring

The .031" rings have always worked for us N/A at high rpm, 6000+ launch and 8000-8500 in the traps. I decided to not venture out and try something new

I will do a second set of pistons later and try .043" or .8mm or so rings, just to see. For what I need I did not want to chance it

The top ring land has always been turned down for us due to the dome being large

Re: .031" Dykes or .043" Rings ?
 

Butch,
Your polls are un scientific and yes, I think they show skewed results. On this Thread you noted the difference in the outcome of two sites. (thanks, I requested that) You have got to realize "WHO" is the audience you are polling and what they are involved in building. I'm pretty sure there aren't any F-1 cars running a .043 ring with Gas ports, but there is a Pro Stock or Comp field that is probably near 100 % .043 or something thin and gas ported..Yes, an .043 ring with a gas port, or any ring with a gas port will show wear. They are designed to seal, not last. There is a Maint cycle in anything you use. I see you are int different coatings and designs to extend wear and maint cycles.. Good. The guys on Speed Talk and the other forums you visit and poll are into different applications than the guys here on Class Racer.
You can't make blanket statements or poll about what works best for everthing because of: Application-application-application.

P.S I'll try to run those 2 simulations you want on Pipe Max and another program this week as time permits.
AS

Re: .031" Dykes or .043" Rings ?
 

Adger I think your 100% correct and didnt look at it at that time that different levels of competition between here and there

As to the .043" we saw wear and to me it didnt seal as well because there was carbon between the two rings, however with the .031" Pressure Back ring we get ZERO carbon below the top ring and superior performance

I still stick with your typical 1/16" ring pack for street or bracket engines (1/16" top, 1/16" second and 3/16" oil or 1/8") and the .031" pack for drag race use (.031" Pressure Back Moly Top, 1/16" second and 3/16" SS50U 5-10 pound oil ring or 16 pound)

However I did an .043" combo to replace the pistons in the engine that shown wear from std .043" x .155" with gas ports, The Gold Finish top ring eliminates the wear at least for me,,, I would suggest the .043" PVD 92 coated ring to anyone now (Gold Finish)

Is it better than the .031" Pressure Back??????? I dont think so for drag race turning 8000rpm+ and leaving at 5500rpm+ ,,,, for a street/strip radical deal yes I would use the .043" x .155" with the PVD 92 coating

So for street or long term bracket racing with minimal tear downs I go 1/16" pack

Drag race with aluminum rods that needs to be serviced more frequent, .031" Pressure Back ring pack

Street or drag race with long term usage such as a drag engine with steel rods .043" x .155" Gold Finish Ring

Re: .031" Dykes or .043" Rings ?
 

More are using .0325" and .028" rings with gas ports. I don't think too many fast na engines are still using dykes rings. .043" is becoming "old tech".

Re: .031" Dykes or .043" Rings ?
 

Has anyone had the chance to dyno the 032s over the 043s. Was their any gains ?Did you prep the bores the same? Jim Hanig

Re: .031" Dykes or .043" Rings ?
 

I changed too many other things at the same time to say. Mine has not been on a dyno anyway.

Re: .031" Dykes or .043" Rings ?
 

I just disassembled a 400 small block bracket engine. Dome pistons.....13+ to 1 compression. .043" narrow radial width top rings with vertical gas ports. The engine has 450 runs on it and still ran fine and rings were not worn out. It is 3 seasons old. I did not build it but I am just going thru it... The car can run in the 9's at 3100+lbs so it is making good power. Never really felt a narrow top ring with gas ports would go that many runs........Well it did and could have run probably quite a few more. The owner uses a restrictor plate to run 10.0's at 7000rpm or so......

Re: .031" Dykes or .043" Rings ?
 

3160 lbs to be exact and best numbers are 9.77 @ 138+ with a 1.27 60 foot


http://i381.photobucket.com/albums/o...cketFinals.jpg

this nothing special 400 powered this ride to back to back track championships and a ROC win in these 450 runs..;)

Same ring package in my 522 BB with 350 passes on them seeing 8000 in the lights.

Re: .031" Dykes or .043" Rings ?
 

You racing RAM this year too along with divisional races ed??????????? RAM looks like its further north this year at Maple and Cecil

Re: .031" Dykes or .043" Rings ?
 

Ones that shown wear for us were AP rings which is steel with a C33 coating

I just prefer 1/16" for bracket and .031" Pressure Back for high rpm low drag. I want to try an .031" with a .043" Napier as I use 1/16" x .145" Napier usually

Re: .031" Dykes or .043" Rings ?
 

I like the dykes but they dont last a long time. I would like to try a .031" dykes hellfire type ring with the gold finish face coating (PVD 92) from Total Seal

400 Gm block, GM nodular crank, GM camel hump heads with no intake runner porting but are bowl ported and exhaust runners polished, vic jr, solid flat tappet, flat tops with 1/16" 1/16" 3/16" rings

The engine break away torque was 17 or 18 foot pounds, constant was 14 foot pounds. The engine seals up great, making about 520-530hp my ET's. Over 250 runs without .001" change in lash with 160 seat and 400 open on std crane solid lifters. Switched to alky when he bought a dragster and left the team with the engine,,, has went as fast as 8.60/.8.70's consistently

He wanted me to maybe rebuild the engine, pulled the pan off and called me. Engine looks like new. Gets no alky in oil, rings gapped .022" / .030"+

Re: .031" Dykes or .043" Rings ?
 

I don't compete in the LODRS nor ram for the wannabe heads up racers. I'm a bracket racer competing every week in the NHRA Summit Racing Series at tracks in NJ and Pa. However, the owner of the green Camaro does compete with two 4th gen F body stockers in the LODRS in addition to the NHRA Summit Racing Series.

Re: .031" Dykes or .043" Rings ?
 

After further inspection of the pistons in the green Camaro.....
ALL the gas ports were plugged with carbon.
The engine is running with low tension oil rings/no evac system and I feel it oiled up top and added to the carbon buildup.
As I said earlier I would not choose this combination myself for a bracket engine that went this long between being rebuilt or this many runs. I would use the std 1/16" top rings. I did use the Hellfires in one engine and they wore the tops of the cylinders. A 555 with Big Dukes....

I ran .031" Dykes a lot in flat piston small block engines. Typical SS type 350's. That was pretty std. 20 years ago.....I ran those rings very high on the pistons. I think they were .050" down on at least one engine. Never had any problem but I was never able to run with the fast guys back then with my budget.....

Re: .031" Dykes or .043" Rings ?
 

You own the green Camaro ED posts the pics of??? If so nice car

We use domed pistons many times, so we cant run the Dykes ring that high but what we do is run it .100 to .200 down depending on dome and valve pockets and turn the upper ring land down so gas pressure can apply the ring

IMO 1/16" is the best damn bracket ring out, 1/16" top, 1/16" Napier Second or Reverse Twist, 3/16" 16 pound oil ring

If I want any more gain from the rings, Dykes, .031"

I do want to try an 1/16" GoldFinish top ring, due to it solving the wear issues with the 043

The GoldFinish is a face coated TNT/Hellfire ring thats lapped too, The GoldFinish 043 is much better than normal 043 rings or AP 043 rings

Re: .031" Dykes or .043" Rings ?
 

[QUOTE=trmnatr;238064]You own the green Camaro ED posts the pics of??? If so nice car


No it's not mine. Owner is a well known footbrake bracket racer and he also has 2 LT-1 Stockers now.

I agree about the 1/16" top rings...

I am trying a set of gapless 1/16" tops with napier seconds and Hastings style oil rings in my own engine......509 BB ....
This will be an injected alcohol burner this year....I've had good luck with those sytems and am back to one again now.....

Re: .031" Dykes or .043" Rings ?
 

You guys are talking bracket engines now. Apples vs oranges.

Edit: Wonder why this old one came back up?

Re: .031" Dykes or .043" Rings ?
 

Is it because Ed is lost and trying to find his way home?