Whither the 425/427 decicion....
 

According to what was posted on this BB, NHRA Tech officials were going to meet at Bristol on last Friday, May 15, to discuss the now-infamous Boise-Hal Sorensen scale/AHFS incident.

Friday has come and gone, and it's now the following Thursday, and nothing has been posted as to what decision has been made, or whether, in fact, it's been decided, yet.

If it has, does anyone have the particulars?

If it hasn't, WHY hasn't it been? This is a not-too-complicated issue that was apparently witnessed by a lot of people, most of whom seem to have agreed on exactly what happened and when.

A lot of issues involving other racers are riding on the outcome of this decision by NHRA.

Has anyone received any solid information as to what the outcome of this is, or failing that, when the decision might be forthcoming?

Any information would be appreciated!!!!

Bill

Re: Whither the 425/427 decision....
 

Gee; I wonder what the reason for the holdup is; this isn't exactly rocket science....

Re: Whither the 425/427 decicion....
 

Maybe it's that no one that claimed to see it is willing to step up or no one saw anything and they were just plain light. It won't affect anyone if it stays like it is.

Re: Whither the 425/427 decicion....
 

Well ask the E body hemi guys what they think about it. Build a Road Runner and claim 27 less HP.

Re: Whither the 425/427 decicion....
 

It's because the hi-archy at NHRA doesn't give a flying ______ about it. My friend submitted a request writing last June through his division (2), the Div 2 sports rep, and to the NHRA sportsman rules committee and has not recieved an answer yet. When he approached the said individual at NHRA in Concord last year he was quoted as saying he bever got the info. Well my friend had copies of emails and delivery reciepts showing otherwise; tech guys response was I must of deleted it by accident. He was told then in September it would be handled after the Finals, well it's almost June and nothing has happened. They are a bunch of hypocrits!!!!

Re: Whither the 425/427 decicion....
 

The second Div 6 race is this weekend in Mission BC. Hopefully some thing may come out at this race. Nobody is willing to say anything because nobody wants to be torn down in a foreign country. I will be going up there saturday to hang out with some friends and get some info on the combation I am working on, hope to here something. Harry 6674 are you going to be there?

Re: Whither the 425/427 decicion....
 

No I won't be there. I've had issues with the canadian govt. for a few years so I don't spend my money there. Should be a fast track.

Re: Whither the 425/427 decicion....
 

DO away with heads up runs and all thsi bullxxxx is a mute point. Get ready that is what it is coming to.

Re: Whither the 425/427 decicion....
 

Heads up runs in Stock make up less than 9% In the eliminator, probably less than 5% in Super Stock because there are more classes. It is pretty much a money bracket the way it stands now.

Re: Whither the 425/427 decicion....
 

Do that in Ihra , not nhra . The day they do away with heads ups will be the death of the class. Why even race a class car. Just build a cement mixer with a big block Chevy and run bracket 2

Re: Whither the 425/427 decicion....
 

Do away with the chance of heads up runs and all you have is Pro ET racing.

If you don't like the possibility of heads up, go race somewhere else other than Stock or Super Stock.

Re: Whither the 425/427 decicion....
 

herbjr that will be the death of class racing
I dont get this why do you want to kill what we love?

Todd preach on to those that want to kill what we do
Again I am at a loss to understand why people want to change class racing into bracket racing
Could anyone explain this to me??

Re: Whither the 425/427 decicion....
 

smitty, mark and todd stop wearing out your keyboard. there west coast clowns and they get away whit
everything. think about it where glendora?

Re: Whither the 425/427 decicion....
 

I think Herb is from North Carolina

Re: Whither the 425/427 decicion....
 

Ray nice to see you on here
Are you going to race or are you done?
I hope you are racing you were a good racer

Keep class racing....

Re: Whither the 425/427 decicion....
 

sorry herbjr. theres at least one guy on the west coast paying attention.

Re: Whither the 425/427 decicion....
 

No heads up? Just kill what integrity stock eliminator has left at that rate. There are plenty of places for people to go bracket race.

Re: Whither the 425/427 decicion....
 

I never said I wanted them to do away with heads up runs.

BUT my brother and I owned and operated a dragstip in NC and I can tell you the stuff that causes you the most aggervation you stayed away from. I love class racing BUT I'm telling you racers the more you take up NHRA's time and bitch at them the less they want to keep your class. I have no problems with heads up but AHFS doesnt work, if you guys arent careful they will stop the bitching and do away with heads up runs.

Before anyone accuses me of saying I support something get it right. I'm just saying I sat on the other side of the fence and put up with racers bitching for 18 months. Now I have been racing with my kids this year. We have 3 wins, 1 RU and 2 semi's. Im having more fun than ever.

Herb Jr

Re: Whither the 425/427 decicion....
 

Five cars in a/sa all with different dial-in's at the same race unless they meet each other in the ladder.

I'm sorry.....you're already bracket racing!

Tree

Re: Whither the 425/427 decicion....
 

and thats what keeps it interesting........if any of them are worth a damn they will meet at some point on the way to the later rounds if not the final. The outcome is what seperates the bracket racer from the class racer.

And that is why rules need to be enforced uniformly.

Re: Whither the 425/427 decicion....
 

The people that don't want heads are either to lazy to work on their stuff, not smart enough and don't want to learn or are not able to afford it. Thats what started brackets to begin with and thats where they belong not in class racing. But thats just me. I started in the 60s so I've had it both ways.

Re: Whither the 425/427 decicion....
 

Or maybe they dont have the money to build a 50K stocker. I think thats what a good one will cost that is bad *** these days. At least A-F/SA. And I mean BAD *** not 1 second under at Indy.

Re: Whither the 425/427 decicion....
 

For once I agree with Ed's post.

Re: Whither the 425/427 decicion....
 

Ed,

Isn't that Super Stock with little tires?

How about using the factory idle specs. You know, 600 rpm in drive. Wouldn't that make the tech line interesting?

Re: Whither the 425/427 decicion....
 

Nothing would be wrong with heads up runs in the eliminator if the rules were enforced. That idea has been out the window for many years ,though.
I guess what people mean when they say you should work harder, is you should work harder at your regular job. That way,you can afford all the non- stock parts that should never have been allowed in the first place.

Re: Whither the 425/427 decicion....
 

My dad got cussed back in 1980 by an employee of a sanctioning body when he told them "SPEED COST MONEY, HOW FAST DO YOU WANT TO GO",


Dont tell me to work harder to make my car run faster, Mark is so right, work harder 9-5 to make more money to buy 35K worth of parts to put in my 15K stocker to be stupid fast. NOT FAST BUT STUPID FAST there is a difference.

For you guys that think stock isnt bracket racing, maybe you need to push nhra to go back to Class Winners only run on Sunday. That will shorten the field. Also dont forget all class winners get tore down EVERY RACE.


Just a thought, even though its a stupid one.

Re: Whither the 425/427 decicion....
 

When NHRA changed the rules so everyone was allowed take weight out to run at the top of the classs and at the same time lowered all the HP factors it messed everything related to factors up. Then they instituted the AHFS at the same time and even that is not correct because of the factored track runs....

So until they fix the ahfs I don't think anything will be fixed.

Re: Whither the 425/427 decicion....
 

[QUOTE=herbjr;

For you guys that think stock isnt bracket racing, maybe you need to push nhra to go back to Class Winners only run on Sunday. That will shorten the field. Also dont forget all class winners get tore down EVERY RACE.
[/QUOTE]

Now thats the best idea Ive heard lately ! Thats the way it used to be when I was running S/S and stock. I was class runner up at the 1978 Sports Nationals and I didnt get to run for the eliminator even though even though I was within .002 of winning class and we were both well under the index. That would sure get the AHFS in line in a hurry if they counted class runs.....LOL.

Re: Whither the 425/427 decicion....
 

For you guys that think stock isnt bracket racing, maybe you need to push nhra to go back to Class Winners only run on Sunday. That will shorten the field. Also dont forget all class winners get tore down EVERY RACE

Herb;
That problem arose at Indy last year.Some guys won class who weren't much under the .50 limit.With the new system guys who lost class and were way more than .50 under got in.Calling us a performance eliminator means different things to different people.Do you reward the class winners or the fastest runners?
I think the class winners should be in first ,like it used to be.


Ed

Re: Whither the 425/427 decicion....
 

You nailed it. Count all runs and things would get fixed in a hurry. Or at least quicker than it is now. Force people to run all out to win and the AHFS has a better chance to work as intended. Use the incrementals also.

Re: Whither the 425/427 decicion....
 

My point exactly Ed.

A few years back I was at Indy on Thurs/Fri and went to visit in the Barn during Stock teardown on Friday and started talking with a few gents I know. One car owner came up and yelled at me for looking at his engine while they were removing one set of head bolts. I was thinkin' "Hm, lets see, the port cannot be touched so there must be something I'm missing here." And then I noticed his ports not only matched the gaskets perfectly, they all seemed to be the same size!

And others such as Kenny with his Cobra Jet and Corda talked with us freely.

I may have some budget stuff laying around, but none of it matches the gasket at all. In fact none of my stuff has a port that is anywhere near as large as the gasket. (Hence why it is called a gasket right?) Maybe that's why GM has lost sales, their casting foundry has lost its touch? ;-)

Re: Whither the 425/427 decicion....
 

Herb,

Some very nice friends, a family I would never have met without drag racing, were running a Super Stocker and decided to build a IHRA Top Stock car. I quickly learned the difference between Class Racing with a possible heads up run and Heads Up - first to the finish line all the time racing. I've never seen $ go by so fast in all my life. (Not counting government of course...)

Taking your idea one step further, what if you let everyone run, but they just got handicapped off of the index rather than a dial in? I don't think half the cars would even enter the next event!

Re: Whither the 425/427 decicion....
 

Index or Record, I remember that.

Re: Whither the 425/427 decicion....
 

50K for a good one is about right if you have someone else build the chassis and drivetrain. As long is it isn't one of the 70k pupose built cars or something very collectable/rare. About half that if you can do the welding/mechanics/testing/set-up yourself.
BAD *** is relative to legal and correctly factored. A LEGAL 1 second under at Indy is pretty good in my book considering you are usually running in 3000 ft. wet air which would translate to around 1.2 under in good air.

I like the idea of class winners and teardowns. Especially teardowns in the rain in a muddy field with flashlights and the headlights from the tow truck while the head of tech is waiting with the heater running in his car. Whats the old saying? What dosen't kill you will only serve to make you stronger. (and better -- and smarter)

I think Harry is pretty much right in his post.

X-Techman did you sleep in the truck at the mall in '78 so you wouldn't loose your place in the tech line?

I would estimate that 75% of my customers don't even install the new/fresh engine that they pick up themselves. I would say that 85% couldn't tell me the metering rod sizes or jets that are in the motor without pulling them. The other 15% are usually in the top 10 at any national that they attend. They work smart and they test smart. They really don't even need me, they just think that they do.

Re: Whither the 425/427 decicion....
 

And I would estimate that most of the "checkwriters" run their mouths the most about how fast "they" are.

Re: Whither the 425/427 decicion....
 

SS Engine guy, what is your real name? You must have a lot of fast stuff out there, and if you have told who you are I must have missed it.

Not real sure why so many hide behind made-up screen names.

Re: Whither the 425/427 decicion....
 

[QUOTE] Do that in Ihra , not nhra . The day they do away with heads ups will be the death of the class. Why even race a class car. Just build a cement mixer with a big block Chevy and run bracket 2 [QUOTE]

Please! Not in IHRA either.

[QUOTE]Do away with the chance of heads up runs and all you have is Pro ET racing.
If you don't like the possibility of heads up, go race somewhere else other than Stock or Super Stock.
[QUOTE]

[QUOTE]No heads up? Just kill what integrity stock eliminator has left at that rate. There are plenty of places for people to go bracket race. [QUOTE]

AMEN!!!

When my wife showed me how many SS/JA cars were entered at Topeka, we decided to go there instead of the IHRA race in Texas. I'll probably get my tail kicked in class by at least that friggin <G> red Dodge, or Don O'Malley's Vette, but I'll find it I have made any head way in catching up to them.

Heads-up is real racing! I'm just too poor for Pro Stock.

Re: Whither the 425/427 decicion....
 

[QUOTE=SS Engine Guy;

X-Techman did you sleep in the truck at the mall in '78 so you wouldn't loose your place in the tech line?

.[/QUOTE]

Accually I was on my "HONEY MOON"....lol and I slept at a motel. Its been so long ago that I dont remember if the tech line was at the track or a shopping center as some of the races kind of run together after 30+ years. I do remember running Phil Hardee (a Bobby Warren preped car) in the final. We both had 350 SS/IA (P/G trans) Camaro's and the S/S cars were less radical than the stockers of today (no ported heads, water pump drives, etc.) at that time. If you were there I was in the left lane in a Candy Red 68 that was unlettered that had one of the early prototype ATI trans breaks. Jim Bettie gave it to me to try out. I used the trans break on the final run and at the green it stood up high enough to drag the bumper and rear pannel and I could not see the grand stands on the left. Had I not stood it up I Might??? have won class. We were eye ball to eye ball at the finish line. I believe he ran a 10.97 and I ran a 10.99 ? Pretty good for 1978. That is just one of the fun memories I have of racing back then. Even though I lost class I had a fun time (winning isnt the only good thing about drag racing) and Phil and myself became pretty good friends through the years when we met at the races when he went comp racing and I was working for IHRA we always took time to talk about the good ole days. . Locally I ran pretty good but nationally I got beat up pretty bad....LOL. The Gators that year was not a good race as I was whipped in the first round....lol. I did OK at the "little Guy Nationals" in Va. the year (1977) before. Had the honor of knowing Div. 2 tech director John Bedenkamp(sp?) before he passed from cancer. He was one of the good guys NHRA had working for them. All in all I look back on it as a great time. Would not have missed it for anything.

Re: Whither the 425/427 decicion....
 

Well, now I know who longbob is.

You'll probably be faster. :D

Your dyno harness came in. I'll give it to Pete at Topeka. Save freight. Maybe he'll pay for it. :D

Re: Whither the 425/427 decicion....
 

This is so sad.