The Keir Stocker is absolutely 1st rate craftsmanship - but is it legal?
 

Is it legal ????

"Outside the box" - how bout - "Outside the rules book."
No body can question the workmanship of this car but what about the legality. This car has not been tech-ed properly. Has NHRA determined this car to be legal? If so, can all cars be built to these specs and standards? Here are some obvious points.
1. Motor Plate
2. Motor / Mounts moved back
3. Radiator core support cut to allow front end removal
4. No stock wiring
5. No heater controls
6. Frame connected above the floor
7. Incorrect seats
8. Incorrect steering column
9. A-Frame adjustable stops

Beautiful Car - just not a what NHRA should consider a Stocker.

Re: The Keir Stocker is absolutely 1st rate craftsmanship - but is it legal?
 

My guess would be..
1. No
2. No
3. No
4. ok
5. ok
6. ok
7. depends
8. depends
9. ok
10. oh, but

Re: The Keir Stocker is absolutely 1st rate craftsmanship - but is it legal?
 

It's not a motor plate if it only attaches to the frame on one side.. which it does.

Re: The Keir Stocker is absolutely 1st rate craftsmanship - but is it legal?
 

Bob
Do you have a car?
Are you a D-1 Tech Person?

Re: The Keir Stocker is absolutely 1st rate craftsmanship - but is it legal?
 

Gee I thought I was having a bad day!

Re: The Keir Stocker is absolutely 1st rate craftsmanship - but is it legal?
 

After looking at the pic that was posted I would have to say that it really looks like a very nice car. Without seeing it in person, who could tell if its a Legal piece or not.

Lets face it, if any car looks that nice, I doubt that any IHRA Tech person would say anything regardless of what it had or didn't have on it. They really don't look for Legallity, just Safety stuff. NHRA is better in this department as far as I am concerned, but they do have oversites.

Legallity is the question and like the man said, "there isn't any such thing as being a little bit pregant, either you are or you aren't".

Would like to see what Travis or Wesley would say.

RJ Sledge

Re: The Keir Stocker is absolutely 1st rate craftsmanship - but is it legal?
 

This is where I have a problem with racers. Go to the next race with money in hand and protest dont go stomping on the keyboard and venting your problems. If the origional poster does have a car, and is at the next race I hope someone protest to see a piston and rod. Be a man and deal with it in person but you must not know the rules on certain items before you flame away on someones car. I for one posted back in April about the frame connector coming through the floor. Only about 1/2 the stockers have them. Stock was gone along time ago, live with it.

Who is bob stampfli I dont know anything about this stocker or the kid who was driving it. So I dont have a side to take here, just the keyboard racer who shouldnt.

So Bob WHO ARE YOU?
Herb Jr

Re: The Keir Stocker is absolutely 1st rate craftsmanship - but is it legal?
 

what car how about a picture

Re: The Keir Stocker is absolutely 1st rate craftsmanship - but is it legal?
 

So Bob WHO ARE YOU?
Herb Jr[/QUOTE]

Well BOB...I'm with Herb... you've been called out... BUB

Re: The Keir Stocker is absolutely 1st rate craftsmanship - but is it legal?
 

Where is the pictures posted, so we can all see that must have missed seeing it.

Re: The Keir Stocker is absolutely 1st rate craftsmanship - but is it legal?
 

Go to Drag Race Central, then the photo column, then click on 100 latest, scroll down to SREPA 1-3. Look for Adam Keir ST. Hope mine looks half as nice. A beautiful car.

Re: The Keir Stocker is absolutely 1st rate craftsmanship - but is it legal?
 

this one??

Re: The Keir Stocker is absolutely 1st rate craftsmanship - but is it legal?
 

To me, unless you have seen the actual car, thru YOUR own eyes, not pictures, or put YOUR hands on a car, you dont have the sac to use your real name, you dont have a counting opinion on wether a car is leagl or not.
To get on the net and basically call someone out, without the above, is useless and a waste of time and bandwidth.

It's beautuiful car, and looks , by the picture, a very well built piece. Props to them ! The car , builders and the performance, evidently.

http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o...cing/props.jpg

Re: The Keir Stocker is absolutely 1st rate craftsmanship - but is it legal?
 

His eighth-mile qualifying time converts to a 9.95 quarter-mile e.t.; not bad for an A/SA car the second time out...

Re: The Keir Stocker is absolutely 1st rate craftsmanship - but is it legal?
 

more like 10.25

Re: The Keir Stocker is absolutely 1st rate craftsmanship - but is it legal?
 

1. Motor Plate Is it a genuine plate or just a large bracket?
2. Motor / Mounts moved back How was this determined? Did tech measure it?
3. Radiator core support cut to allow front end removal How about NHRA ruling x-member mod for pan removal? That opens up a bigger can of worms. If the mod has no weight distribution or performance gain and is disguised, it's a moot point
4. No stock wiring Show me one that does
5. No heater controls My console and HVAC controls have been removed for trans maintenance and has passed NHRA tech
6. Frame connected above the floor Again, is it blatant or disguised?
7. Incorrect seats If true I agree. Not in the spirit of the category
8. Incorrect steering column Again, I might agree, except was it fab'd or from another body type?
9. A-Frame adjustable stops Now this I can see bitching and protesting, unless he ain't setting the world on fire.

I'm being more curious than pretentious. If visible mods are clearly stated as "prohibited" in the rule book it's a sure bet it won't pass. But Like Herb says, the "stock" in these cars went out a long time ago. I'll tell you there's at least 60 things about my car that aren't "stock" but it's all legal. Class car prep is, at best, like being an illusionist. My guess is you're a stock racer, and assume you already know and understand my reasoning. If not, you miss the whole idea behind class racing.

Re: The Keir Stocker is absolutely 1st rate craftsmanship - but is it legal?
 

Fred Johnston has commented that the qualifying time of Adam Kier's A/SA car was not, in fact the equivalent of a 9.95, but more like a 10.25.


Here is his qualifying time for the eighth-mile:

5 1470 A/SA Adam Keir, , '70 Nova 6.471


I don't know how to extrapolate that time to a quarter-mile equivalent, so what I did was to go to National Dragster's INDEX page and find an eighth-mile index as close as I could to the 6.471 Adam turned.

The eighth-mile index for SS/A just happens to be 6.47. Close enough, wouldn't you say?

The quarter-mile index (for that class) is 9.95.

I couldn't do any better than that. If that's wrong, I don't know why.

HOWEVER, the online computer I use, said this:

"Your 1/4 Mile ET is 10.22 seconds computed from your vehicle 1/8th ET of 6.471 seconds."

So, Fred may be a lot closer than NHRA is.........

Go figure....

Bill

Re: The Keir Stocker is absolutely 1st rate craftsmanship - but is it legal?
 

Who is this guy that started this thread. Someone has to know

Re: The Keir Stocker is absolutely 1st rate craftsmanship - but is it legal?
 

# 3 -- Radiator core support cut -- I have no idea if his is cut or not but I was told last year by D-1 tech officials that cutting the rad supports was a no-no.....................This rule started back in the day of '57 Chevies and has been that way since -- no exceptions ! ! !

Re: The Keir Stocker is absolutely 1st rate craftsmanship - but is it legal?
 

I hadn't thought about those old Chevies for a long time until you brought it up, and now I'm trying to remember why we needed to cut the support in the first place.

Was it so you could do a cam change with the engine in the car?

Re: The Keir Stocker is absolutely 1st rate craftsmanship - but is it legal?
 

Dan -- It was to make engine changes easy .........same as on todays newer cars -- i'd love to do it .

Re: The Keir Stocker is absolutely 1st rate craftsmanship - but is it legal?
 

Why? So you can have a lynch mobb go after the guy? I haven't seen the car, probably never will due to distance. I made a post some pictures would be good to see at this point.
I have a hard time believing some guy went out of his way to blacken a racers image just because he wanted to one day. If what he wrote is total BS, then he would sure look like an idiot. If however the statements are accurate, then there is a problem. And the problem is we have a rulebook and it should be enforced and 3/4 of the listed items don't appear to be in any "grey" area.
And those that taught the word "stock" and it's lack of relevancy are somewhat mindless in my opinion. "Stock" is a title. The rulebook defines Stock.

Re: The Keir Stocker is absolutely 1st rate craftsmanship - but is it legal?
 

I Don't remember where I found this but I have found it to be pretty acturate..
1/8 mile ET X 1.55 = 1/4 mile ET
Using this the 6.47 = 10.02

Re: The Keir Stocker is absolutely 1st rate craftsmanship - but is it legal?
 

One of those that love to cause a stir. On the positive side it promotes intelligent conversation for the most part, something the thread starter might not have figured on. Rule book says the brace has to go through the floor. I take that to mean part of the brace is above the floorpan and part below the pan. My camaro had 2/3rds of the 2x3 brace inside the floor and 1/3rd below, or outside. Wesley told me that was fine. My car did many 6.30's and it's quarter mile was 10.0's. The 6.40s were 10.teens and twentys. Nevertheless, it's still a fast Nova.

Re: The Keir Stocker is absolutely 1st rate craftsmanship - but is it legal?
 

Fred & Bill,

Adam, went 10.26 or 10.27 at Maple Grove the week before... But, I do think he only had 8-10 passes on the new Car ... The Car is really a nice piece and the kid can drive ... You will have to discuss the other stuff with his dad , who has built many racecars... Remember the name, cause you will being hearing more of it...


Jack,

I thought you could cut the rad. support, but could be bolted back together for easy engine removal ???

Re: The Keir Stocker is absolutely 1st rate craftsmanship - but is it legal?
 

Dave -- you're allowed crossmember cutting for pan removal but not the rad support .....

Re: The Keir Stocker is absolutely 1st rate craftsmanship - but is it legal?
 

Dave,

Maybe it's an example of one of thoise cars that is so well set-up that it has inordinately fast 60-foot times (high 1.20s?) and because of that, covers the first eighth really quickly (for its type of car), but doesn't run on the big end like a SS/A car would, so the performanxce falls off, COMPARATIVELY SPEAKING, the last half. Maybe it's only running 128 mph, or so...

That would explain its slightly incongruous eighth-mile vs. quarter-mile times.

Bill

Re: The Keir Stocker is absolutely 1st rate craftsmanship - but is it legal?
 

Awhile back, I bought a car from Division 1. It had passed tech MANY times over MANY years. Unfortunately, the car came with several things that weren't legal according to the rule book. In order to run in Division V, I had to CORRECT them. So apparently, the rule book used in Division V is written more clearly than the one used in Division 1.

On our Superstock Olds, The guy we sold the car to was required to completely re-do the rear suspension because part of the bracing protruded into the rear seat floorpan. That was in Division 3, and the car had originally come from Division 3. He changed it because that's what the rule said. So apparently the Division 3 rule book is more specific regarding protrusion than the rulebooks in Division 1 or 4.

The problem isn't THE RULES. It's the Divisional tech people who have neglected to grow a pair to tell their buddies NO! Do you think Division 1 has a lock on HIGH-TECH? Take a look at some of the Division 6 & 7 Stockers??, if you can call them that. There is way too much liberal interpretation going on here. EVOLUTION - MY *****.

Jerry

Re: The Keir Stocker is absolutely 1st rate craftsmanship - but is it legal?
 

Hi there Jerry!
Yep both Stock & Super Stock has gotten way out of control as far as what is legal (and what little isn't). This Keir car is an awesome piece of mechanical artwork there's no doubt about it, and there is no questioning Ken's talent. But the question was "is it legal" as an NHRA Stocker?

If this car is accepted as legal, then it is definitely going to set the standards for everyone else to follow.

Larry Fulton

Re: The Keir Stocker is absolutely 1st rate craftsmanship - but is it legal?
 

Yeah, what he said!

Re: The Keir Stocker is absolutely 1st rate craftsmanship - but is it legal?
 

Hi back Larry,

You're right! Where is it going?

Give me an original 1968 - 1972 Nova and an early Camaro (for comparison purposes), a tape measure and some authority, and I'll scare the crap out of a large number of Stockers drivers at any NHRA event. Yeah!! It'd be that easy.

Jerry

Re: The Keir Stocker is absolutely 1st rate craftsmanship - but is it legal?
 

My 1957 Chevy Bel Air had the radiator core support cut. Two tabs were welded on the ends and it was bolted back in. I went 68 and 71 Winters an the 70 Supernationals and it was never questioned.

Re: The Keir Stocker is absolutely 1st rate craftsmanship - but is it legal?
 

Like it or not a car is legal till it gets tossed. Then it can be called illegal. If your sure about the car go to the track and put the money up. If not keep the "CRY BABY" stuff up it suits you.

Re: The Keir Stocker is absolutely 1st rate craftsmanship - but is it legal?
 

I'm sitting around here at home, instead of Chicago, with nothing to do but read these soapies. I should leave well enough alone but I just can't help myself. (1) As far as I know this forum is for everyone ....even no names... and there is a forum for racers ONLY, just a quick scroll down when you get on this site. If you can't stand to read a thread of a no name, don't read it. If you want to have a racer only thread, go there. Unfortunately hardly any racers post there(????) (2) Jerry is point on, except that it would include a lot more than Novas and Camaros. Like he says ...a car that passes in one division may not in another. (3) As for the Nova in question..... NHRA has let the 1968 thru 72 Nova tech in as any of those years according to the engine combo claimed. The steering column is different in the early model(no ign.key). No big deal.The tail lights are some what different 69 to a 70. No big deal. The seats are close (head rest). Again no big deal. This has been going on for years with a lot of makes and models. (4) IF the Keir Nova has adjustable stops ( as do a few other stockers I've seen), he will probably have that corrected soon after he reads this thread. Ditto IF he has a block plate and/or cut core support. Everything else is nothing new to whats going on in stock now days. (5) Before you start bringing protest money to the races make sure your own house is in order. (6) That is an awfully NICE Nova. (7) If NHRA allows you to run it, RUN IT till they stop you. (8) I'm getting so tired even Bob Stampfli is starting to look good, James. (9) Gotta go and give props to the Wenzel guys.

Re: The Keir Stocker is absolutely 1st rate craftsmanship - but is it legal?
 

What happened to James Schaechter post? I thought it was funny, Tom

Re: The Keir Stocker is absolutely 1st rate craftsmanship - but is it legal?
 

Leave the kid and his car alone. Maybe this is why people are not " flocking " to class racing any more. This place is starting to sound like a bunch of old ladies in a hair salon!

Re: The Keir Stocker is absolutely 1st rate craftsmanship - but is it legal?
 

It seems to me that the wrong kind of people are "flocking" to class racing any more! Schools should be teaching our children how to read so that when they decide to go Stock racing they can read the Rulebook!
The sound of "a bunch of old ladies in a hair salon" has to be better than a bunch of whining, crying little spoiled brats that aren't getting their own way!

Re: The Keir Stocker is absolutely 1st rate craftsmanship - but is it legal?
 

My previous post was not meant as any comment on Kenny Keirs new car as I have only casually looked at it and can't comment on it's legality one way or another. It is pretty though.

Re: The Keir Stocker is absolutely 1st rate craftsmanship - but is it legal?
 

This kid wins one race and the jackasses come out of the woodwork. Put up or shut up!

Re: The Keir Stocker is absolutely 1st rate craftsmanship - but is it legal?
 

Enough said, time to end this thread.