take all the numbers off of the time slips, lol
 

wonder what it would take to get back to these type of time slips again, way to many numbers and boy would it make it back to driving by the seat of your pants again!

Thanks to Stewart Pomeroy for usage of time slips as they came from the Motown Missle in 1970
http://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/...-Timeslip4.jpg

Re: take all the numbers off of the time slips, lol
 

If NHRA would let its members vote on this, I would vote to show ONLY what these slips show!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm probably in the minority though!!!

Re: take all the numbers off of the time slips, lol
 

Any one who is interested in nostalgia. These slips are for the Motown Missle (Don Carlton, Lexington, NC) in 1970.

Re: take all the numbers off of the time slips, lol
 

I have some from 1969 at Thunder Valley, Marion, SD. I am going to dig them out and see if they are still readable.

#5457

Curt Rees

Re: take all the numbers off of the time slips, lol
 

I'd be interested to hear what is the perceived "downside" is in educating us about our cars by displaying incremental numbers on timeslips.

I know there are some folks who don't like the idea, but I don't understand why. It seems to me that knowing your incremental times would be at least as important as knowing your speed and e.t., so why not include them; they would seem to me, to be a useful diagnostic tool... especially 60-foot times.

What's the negative aspect to having this information?
What am I missing here?



Bill

Re: take all the numbers off of the time slips, lol
 

OK

60 1/8 1/4 No reaction times!!

Re: take all the numbers off of the time slips, lol
 

Sounds Great to me........I still have alot of them at home ;)

Re: take all the numbers off of the time slips, lol
 

No reaction times please, Paul.

Re: take all the numbers off of the time slips, lol
 

Its not the end of the world............we had life before...........:p

Re: take all the numbers off of the time slips, lol
 

I think you would find that the guys who are killer racers with all the numbers would still be killer racers w/o any numbers.

Re: take all the numbers off of the time slips, lol
 

....you are 100% correct....all the numbers just made bad drivers better

Re: take all the numbers off of the time slips, lol
 

Now a killer racer cuts lights lower than .512 and backs into you while holding a tenth. And we call that RACING.

Re: take all the numbers off of the time slips, lol
 

I'd welcome getting back to just et a nd mph on the time slip, but... While I enjoy all of today's technology and welcome any new stuff, I sometimes think we'd be better in the days when we all walked around with six-shooters on our belts. The problem with getting rid of all the numbers on the time slip is that Pandora's Box was opened as soon as the first track operator put a reaction time on the time slip, and no amount of arguing-discussing-voting is going to close it.

Re: take all the numbers off of the time slips, lol
 

I totally agree with getting rid of the reaction times, but it will never happen now that the genie is out of the bottle. Also bracket racing in S/SS will never end because it would require serious tech to control any other way and we all k now that aint gonna happen any time soon.

Re: take all the numbers off of the time slips, lol
 

"all the numbers just made bad drivers better "

Huh, never did done hep me any! LOL

Are ya' gonna leave the MOV on the slip? I always kinda liked seeing how bad I got my *** whipped.

Re: take all the numbers off of the time slips, lol
 

Well, I asked what the downside of having the incremental times on the time slip was, and nobody said anything that answered the question, so I'm goint to assume it's just one of those nebulous issues that SEEMS like a bad idea, but you just don't know why.

Otherwise, somebody would have said, "The reason I feel that showing incremental times is a bad idea is...."

And, nobody did.

So, I'll ask the other question: Several of you have criticized the practice of having reaction times on the time slip.
Since the opposing driver doesn't get to view this information until AFTER the race is over, what is the problem with showing it?

I have no opinion either way, nor a dog in this hunt, I'm just curious as to how someone finding out my reaction time (or, theirs) after the race is over, is going to help them beat me. Or, me, them, for that matter...

What's the rub, here???

Re: take all the numbers off of the time slips, lol
 

Me too!!

Re: take all the numbers off of the time slips, lol
 

OK; Ed, I get it. You think they're using the information off the timeslip to adjust the delay..

Fair enough.

Looks like we need better tech support for electronics sleuthing. How do you use a delay box in a footbraked (no transbrakes in Stock) car?

You can easily watch a transbrake car as it's being stalled and see that the chassis is not receiving any of that torque, so how do they use a delay box in a Stocker?

Re: take all the numbers off of the time slips, lol
 

This is a common misconception. A delay box would be *more* useful without reaction times shown on a timeslip. Go to a test and tune, roll numbers in until you turn it green. The only time you'd have to make any serious adjustment would be going from track to track to make up for rollout differences, but with just a small amount of data, that hump would quickly be overcome as well -- and the delay box user would be able to make those compensations much more quickly and accurately.

Slow transbrakes, long buttons, different tire sizes, different converters, different chassis setups, blinders, etc. It's not exactly a black art.

I made one pass in a SS/CM car a few years back. I assumed that the rollout would be very quick, so I 'hung' the bottom bulb on just a hair, and came up .032 or so. I quickly figured out that the rollout was actually identical to the Stocker I was driving at the time.

On the flip side, I've also driven cars that had the same 60', ET, and MPH, but the rollout was as much as a tenth different between them!


Having incrementals on a timeslip allows you to spot problems in the car, or heaven forbid, in the timing system.

Re: take all the numbers off of the time slips, lol
 

If one doesn't understand how a delay device could be used or for that matter useful in a class such as Stock or Super Stock you should ask the two racers that were using them, one in Stock & the other in Super Stock. Wasn't it Travis Miller D3 & Wesley Roberson D4 that each found cars with delay devices in classes where they were prohibited?

Re: take all the numbers off of the time slips, lol
 

Pretty sure he can, Ed. I know a young guy over here that can do it. He gets alot of practice though. Every time there's money up for grabs , he's there with two cars. Makes a big difference.

Re: take all the numbers off of the time slips, lol
 

You must mean the guy that got BUSTED at Ennis on April 20,2002 because the Emmon's Boys were paying attention !!!
26 4981 K/SA Ron Muncy, Weatherford TX, '79 Malibu 12.461 12.95 -0.489

And wasn't on the final qualifying sheet.....and has never returned.....

Re: take all the numbers off of the time slips, lol
 

Come on Michael, problems with the timing system? That can't happen, can it? ;) I don;t think enough people realize how many times it "really" happens.

Re: take all the numbers off of the time slips, lol
 

Bill,
Using a delay box on a footbrake car just requires installing a second line-loc into the rear brakes and a two-step. I put on on my Stocker about mid-year in 1988 when they were legal but had some inconsistency issues. Replacing the solid-core plug wires with carbon type and killing the field on the altenator solved the problem. Unfortunately I didn't get it sorted out until after the Keystone Nationals and delay boxes were outlawed in 1989. Mr. Muncy was caught because motion was detected in his arm and shoulder but I believe it can be successfully operated undetected with the left foot. I'm sure people smarter than me has already figured this out. Danny

Re: take all the numbers off of the time slips, lol
 

That is incorrect, due to a huge number of variables not taken account for -- some of which I noted in my earlier post. As just a for-instance, a Super Gas car reacts as fast as a Pro Stock car. Top Fuel cars don't react very fast at all, due to the clutch and massive tire wrap-up.

As another example, take my Volare with a 1.45 60', Terry Knott's Dart Sport with a 1.50 60', and my Duster bracket car with a 1.60 60'. Terry's car reacts the fastest of the three, followed by the Duster, and the "quickest" of the cars, the Volare, reacting the slowest. With the SS/CM car I referred to earlier, the slow transbrake, long button, and much larger tire (more slick wrinkle), had the same rollout as Terry's Dart. I've also driven a SS/BX car, which was the 3rd quickest car I've driven, yet it was the fastest-reacting car I've driven, by a TON.

A lot of things happen that effect reaction time *before* the car physically starts moving forward.

John D -- My "favorite" timing system error I've seen is one where it gives the correct incremental times, correct MPH, yet trips the finish line with the BACK tire. I saw this happen about four times in one day. We could fill a whole separate thread with timing system "nuances".

Re: take all the numbers off of the time slips, lol
 

John Kelley, Question who purchased both of Ron Muncy cars? I don`t think they found the delay system on Ron car? Wesley asked Ron if he had a delay system and he said yes, and went home and sold his cars, That`s the way i heard the story. Tom

Re: take all the numbers off of the time slips, lol
 

....wow, so many experts...

Re: take all the numbers off of the time slips, lol
 

As I remember he showed Tech the unit and told them how it worked
I don't remember who bought the stocker but it was around later on with another driver.

Re: take all the numbers off of the time slips, lol
 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bill asked how a line-loc could be used to effect a delay box for a starting-line advantage.

Danny Ashley replied:
"Bill,
Using a delay box on a footbrake car just requires installing a second line-loc into the rear brakes and a two-step. I put on on my Stocker about mid-year in 1988 when they were legal but had some inconsistency issues. Replacing the solid-core plug wires with carbon type and killing the field on the altenator solved the problem. Unfortunately I didn't get it sorted out until after the Keystone Nationals and delay boxes were outlawed in 1989. Mr. Muncy was caught because motion was detected in his arm and shoulder but I believe it can be successfully operated undetected with the left foot. I'm sure people smarter than me has already figured this out. Danny"

Thanks for that very educational explanation, Danny! I understand all of it except, I am at a loss to understand the relationship between a line-loc and solid-core sparkplug wires and an alternator's output.

Can you give me the reasons for those relationships, please? Is it some sort of "R-F" interference generated by the magnetic fields, and if it is, by what method do they interfere with, or affect, a purely electrical solenoid like is in a line-loc???? Or, was it the two-step that was affected? I have taken videos of cars that had two--steps that played havoc with my video-recorder while the two-step was in operation.

I am baffled by this one!

Thanks for any info,

Bill

Re: take all the numbers off of the time slips, lol
 

Bill,
The Radio Frequency Interference (RFI) generated by an alternator &/or an ignition system can disrupt the tiny electrical signals in an electronic device like a delay box. Each little trace on the circuit board can act as an antenna, which results in an unwanted electrical current in that circuit, which can in turn "crash" the microprocessor, or at least scramble some of its results. I built my own microprocessor controlled delay box in the late 80's, and in the original plastic enclosure it would crap out as soon as I started the car. Moved it into a metal enclosure and it worked fine.

Regards,

Re: take all the numbers off of the time slips, lol
 

Thanks, Michael... now I understand. I didn't know that R-F was a problem for micro-processors.

Bill