New hp revisions?
 

Did they do away with the AFHS and we don't know about it? Thought we would have seen a report by now.

Re: New hp revisions?
 

Todd -- Wishful thinking ..........................

Re: New hp revisions?
 

I am wondering if the problem might be a lack of personnel . You would think,however, that there would be some sort of posting as to why the delay ( other than we don't care )!

Re: New hp revisions?
 

I sent the NHRA tech an e mail about the HP revisions and they replied by saying in the past it hasn't come out until August (which was 8-26-03).

Re: New hp revisions?
 

AHFS Release Dates:

07/01/2008

07/10/2007

07/10/2006

07/05/2005

07/08/2004

08/26/2003

07/31/2002

Re: New hp revisions?
 

That's when Wesley and Bob Lang were doing it. It will be interesting to see what happens since it's being handled in California now.

Re: New hp revisions?
 

its my understanding that the only two people who knew how two do it have been assigned to other duties

Re: New hp revisions?
 

.....will be once a year, starting 8/09

Re: New hp revisions?
 

they changed the automatic to -1.00 and EVERYONE is getting HP !!!


hahaha... thought id ad some fun in here :)

jack

Re: New hp revisions?
 

That could be a GOOD idea. It would get everyone where they should belong but only IF they didnt tell anyone until it was a done deal.

Re: New hp revisions?
 

As stated before..we cant just keep adding hp to all.....LOWER THE INDEXES..then the one's that need HP will get it...

Re: New hp revisions?
 

Not unless the "Trigger" is changed (lowered) more than the lowering of the indexes. It will need to be lowered to an unknown amount. Racers will always be racers and manipulate the system.

Re: New hp revisions?
 

If you lower the trigger an equal amount or more nothing changes..lower the indexes so people can "run em" all out ..only way to see were we are right now...It's nothing more than a -1.15 bracket race nowdays! Somehow the "evolution" needs to get some space...one way or another..sort of they did with AA!

Re: New hp revisions?
 

Agreed....thats why I said make the trigger different than the amount of index change and not let the amount be known. Racers WILL manipulate the system one way or the other. Start by lowering the indexes by a min, of .5.....yes, one half of a second (.75 might be even better). With the way "stockers" are being built today (rules and "enhanced" induction parts,etc.) just about anyone can build one that would run around .75 under todays indexes unless the combo is off in left field with an over rated engine to begin with. Whats the point of running 1+ under if 98-99% of the field is doing the same thing. Just having a soft index is not going to bring in a lot of new blood these days until all of the old timers drop dead from old age and are no longer racing. The guys who have been racing stock all thier lives know all the "Tricks". I doubt stock (or whatever it will turn into) will be around by that time so thats a moot point. Just another 2 1/2 cents worth of BS from someone who used to care. Makes for good reading matter for arguments sake.......eh?

Re: New hp revisions?
 

If you lower the index/trigger and the fast guys get hit that gives that combo hp correct? so everyone who has that combo has to add weight so it still keeps everyone seperated by the same amount. So if I have a B/SA Shelby and it is only .3 tenths under and Bill Hawk is running his normal 1.00-1.20 under and he gets hit because the indexes are lowered or the trigger is lowered it affects both of us. I don't see what you can do to change anything because it's still going to affect everyone who has that same combo. Someone please tell me what I am missing here.:confused:

Re: New hp revisions?
 

I think if you have a 67 Shelby that only runs .3 under then you must have left a few plug wires off OR #1 you truly are legal as in OEM stock...#2 your living in a fairy tell land in believing everyone who is running fast or torn down is really legal.....#3 you cant drive the damn thing or its broken. Im NOT saying anyone like Bill is illegal as I know him personally but the car IS a maximum effort (and a nice one) plus it is like some say.... a "Paper" car but its still deemed a legal combination by NHRA and thats all that matters here. If one can run fast then so can any others that are in the same combo IF the effort, work, desire, expertise, and money are applied to it. Just having soft indexes to run off of means nothing and makes stock eliminator more like bracket racing. If everyone could do it we all would be world champions.

Re: New hp revisions?
 

What this means is the slow will go slower and the fast will still be fast !!!!! :mad:

Re: New hp revisions?
 

Its either spend the $$$$ to do what everyone else is doing.......work on it if you can do your own work.....race a combo that has a resonable HP raiting not one that you just like.......get NHRA to refactor your combo (not one everyone else is running) down so you can slide into a lower class.......really cheat.....bracket race (its what you do anyway 99% of the time)....or watch TV. There are no "GIMMIES" in the real world. The guys who are fast today will still be the ones who are fast tomorrow......learn what to do and still pass tech.......dont live in a fairy tell land and make it your passion to become a bad ***.......if you cant afford to run with the big dogs then your not going to qualify for INDY anyway even if the indexes are softer. 128 car fields are it in NHRA. I guess Im up to 5 cents worth of BS by now.

Re: New hp revisions?
 

X-TECH MAN what car, class do you race? Have you every raced in the midwest in the middle of summer 100 deg. and 80% hum.; -.75 the index and half the car`s wouldn`t show up to race. Tom

Re: New hp revisions?
 

midwest hell, try houston this weekend. DA above 4000 most likely, and the real altitude is like 25 feet

Re: New hp revisions?
 

I have raced a 1965 426 street wedge Plymouth in stock, 1969 Corvette stock eliminator and S/S, a 1971 Dodge Challenger with a 383 stock elim, then in S/S, A 1968 E/S Z-28 then converted it to a S/SIA Camaro 350/PG, although in the 60,s and thru the 70,s some in the 80,s and yes the temp and humidity gets bad in Maryland, Va.,Gainsville Fla, Bolling Green Ky, Penn, Ohio, N.Carolina, S.Carolina, Tenn. New York, and Canada also. Whats your point?

Re: New hp revisions?
 

P.S. I almost forgot my 66 Corvette in E/SP (remember that class?) but it was not a dedicated serious effort. I was still "trapped" in Uncle Sams grips while stationed in Ft. Knox Ky so I have raced at Ohio Valley and Hardinsburg U.S. 60, an outlaw track in Louisville (forgot the name), and Lexington dragway also in Ky.

Re: New hp revisions?
 

I dont wanna say "work on your car" or something similar but it seems like alot of people think that everyone that has a car with 4 wheels should be able to race Stock and SS at a competitive level...Should we raise the index a full second instead maybe? Just wondering where the "spirit" of trying to go faster are these days..Bracket Racing is still around..has been forever..if someone dosent want spend the time,effort or money involved to race these categorys like they have let it evolve..should then the faster guys always have to sandbag,lookout for triggers and race at events that dont trigger anything to keep the rest happy? I am not looking for a debate on legal stuff or not or how tech are doing it's work...just seeing whats going on these days...just seem really stupid that everyone can go under the index..and most a full second and more..When i started you had to try a couple of years to beat index!

Re: New hp revisions?
 

This says it all. minus .75 might be to much because of junk tracks, bad air, altitude that dosent quite meet the altitude adjustment, etc. but minus .5 should not be a problem with any racer. I dont think the AHFS will ever work like it should. Another nickles worth.

Re: New hp revisions?
 

Ok, I was using Bill's car as an example, I actually own a slow *** SS/IA car. I think what I was trying to get across was misunderstood; I know that anyone with money can run fast. Racing is a combo and haves and have nots. I'm not saying anyone is illegal that is running fast. I simply was trying to get someone to explain how adjusting the trigger for factoring or adjusting the indexes will change racing, that's it. I think everyone on this board knows you gotta work on your stuff to make it competitive, that's not an issue with me. I can accept that my car is slow because I know what my funds allow me to do, what I don't understand is why changing factors or indexes will help? Cars will still be the same amount apart.
If you take the slow guys out of each class and keep all the fast ones with rules there will still be better combos, there's no way to even the playing field unless you give everyone spec cars ala NASCAR, how fun would that be?

Re: New hp revisions?
 

X-techman, go back and read what I said, I am not complaining about anyone's car or combo. I own a car and yeah it's was dream to own a class and it can run under theindex, not far but under. If I had to run the baddest man in the land it wouldn't concern me and I wouldn't complain because I know what I spent and I can gaurantee that other car has more money in their stuff than me. I think alot of these questions about hp revisions are based on the performance of certain vehicles. Right now everyone has issues with '08 Cobra Jet because of the percieved soft HP factor given by NHRA. Has the car hit the trigger? has it won every race enetered? yet alot folks don't like it's percieved advantage. Are the guys complaining about that car not working on their stuff?
I want someone to answer what good it will do to adjust the trigger fir hp or the index? Makes no difference if they add .50 tenths to the SS/IA index to me because a car like Bryan Worner's will still be 1.00 faster than me on most days lol!

Re: New hp revisions?
 

As i see it ...no one really knows how far apart different combos in the same class are these days..this system make everyone adapt to the triggers that currently are being used.. "the evolution" has nowhere to go..other than adding weight...and very few like to do that so they manipulate the system..Ofcourse "the evolution" could make slower cars dissapear if the index would be lowered...if you wanna keep all current cars and add even more you could just raise the index and trigger....but the spread between fast and slow cars would be even bigger because most are just happy to be in the race at the cheapest way possible..maybe thats how most like to have it!...but as i see it the trigger and index need more room between them than whats the case now. lower the index and keeping the trigger is one way..keeping the index and raising the trigger is another..but only 20 years ago only a veryfew went more than -.500..a real "exclusive club" at Nationals....just thinking it should be something really special to go -1.00 wich it could be if they lowered the indexes a couple of tenths..

p.s. at Boise where the only trigger is -1.40 under sealevel index one car was heads and shoulders above the rest in the class when probably all was trying for records..

Re: New hp revisions?
 

Chevy rods in a Ford? Where do you come up with this stuff? How about Chevy "sized" rod bearings not a Chevy rod. WTH SB Chrs. have been using the Chevy "sized" rod bearings for years also. No one says anything about them.....Learn to read a set of mic's then you too may pick up some et.
Smitty, email me please..Dee9275@yahoo.com

Re: New hp revisions?
 

There will always be a difference of opinions on Indexes, triggers, AHFS, etc. One fact is the current Indexes are soft. Not opinion, fact. I looked up the Indexes from 1990, and compared to todays, some Indexes were as much as two tenths quicker in 1990. Since then a multitude of rule changes have come about, allowing parts and stuff that were not legal in 1990, cars have picked up several tenths since then, and the Indexes have become slower? Doesn't make much sense. All the Indexes of today could stand to lose some (although I would leave SS/AM as is, and maybe SS/AH). Two tenths or so would be a good start. Although, there starts the argument. If you lower the Indexes, say, two tenths across the board (five tenths is to much, IMO) and leave the triggers (-1.15 twice for a look and -1.40 for automatic), then that plays into the fast guys/girls hands...allowing them to run flat out with no, or reduced, penalties. If you lower the Indexes two tenths, and reduce the triggers to -.95 and -1.20, then you still have the same problem that some currently do not like, which is being unable to run flat out in Class Eliminations, or heads-up runs or setting records, without a potential penalty of HP adjustments. It would be hard to make an ideal scenario for the majority.

Here are the 1990 Indexes.

SS/A 9.80
SS/B 10.00
SS/C 10.25
SS/D 10.35
SS/E 10.45
SS/F 10.55
SS/G 10.65
SS/H 10.70
SS/I 10.75
SS/J 11.00
SS/K 11.20
SS/L 11.40
SS/M 11.70
SS/N 12.05
SS/O 12.30
SS/P 12.60

SS/AA 9.85
SS/BA 9.95
SS/CA 10.15
SS/DA 10.30
SS/EA 10.45
SS/FA 10.55
SS/GA 10.65
SS/HA 10.75
SS/IA 10.85
SS/JA 11.10
SS/KA 11.35
SS/LA 11.65
SS/MA 11.95
SS/NA 12.25
SS/OA 12.50
SS/PA 12.75

GT/A 10.10
GT/B 10.20
GT/C 10.30
GT/D 10.45
GT/E 10.60
GT/F 10.70
GT/G 10.85
GT/H 10.95
GT/I 11.05
GT/J 11.15
GT/K 11.25
GT/L 11.40
GT/M 11.50

GT/AA 10.25
GT/BA 10.35
GT/CA 10.50
GT/DA 10.60
GT/EA 10.75
GT/FA 10.90
GT/GA 11.10
GT/HA 11.15
GT/IA 11.30
GT/JA 11.45
GT/KA 11.55
GT/LA 11.65
GT/MA 11.75

SS/AS 9.75
SS/BS 9.85
SS/CS 10.30

SS/AM 9.40
SS/BM 9.60
SS/CM 9.80
SS/DM 10.00
SS/EM 10.20
SS/FM 10.60
SS/GM 10.60

A/S 11.09
B/S 11.29
C/S 11.47
D/S 11.62
E/S 11.76
F/S 11.90
G/S 12.00
H/S 12.09
I/S 12.28
J/S 12.43
K/S 12.67
L/S 12.81
M/S 12.95
N/S 13.05
O/S 13.19
P/S 13.47
Q/S 13.76
R/S 14.05
T/S 14.48
U/S 14.77
V/S 15.39
W/S 15.96

A/SA 11.17
B/SA 11.37
C/SA 11.51
D/SA 11.66
E/SA 11.80
F/SA 11.95
G/SA 12.10
H/SA 12.24
I/SA 12.38
J/SA 12.53
K/SA 12.73
L/SA 12.82
M/SA 12.96
N/SA 13.11
O/SA 13.26
P/SA 13.54
Q/SA 13.89
R/SA 14.13
T/SA 14.67
U/SA 14.96
V/SA 15.71
W/SA 16.80

Re: New hp revisions?
 

Lil Duane, you got mail.

Re: New hp revisions?
 

Question of the year? Why are people worried about indexes. If there are any answers, I wlll take it from there. I will say the horse is dead and I think NHRA feels the same way.

Re: New hp revisions?
 

I think half the problem is it is too easy to make a field. I think "back in the day" when you built a car, the challenge was to make the field and that didn't happen overnight. And then once you made the field, barely, you got your *** whupped. Repeatedly. And because you were tired of the whuppin', you tried harder and harder and then finally, after years perhaps, you not only had a competitive car but a thorough understanding of why things work the way they do.
From this, we have talented racers and talented engine builders. Now it's a "right" to race Stock Eliminator and if you can't find a rulebook, you can c'mon here and ask how and get all the spins you want on deciphering a rule to your advantage.
So I guess the big question is this. Did making it "hard" attract or loose competitors? Did NHRA really need to make it easier?