Warning to those who use brake cleaner
 

While crusing the net I ran across an article that could save your life. It concerns using brake cleaner. Please take a few minutes to read the article.

http://www.brewracingframes.com/id75.htm

After reading the article I did a search for "phosgene gas" and found out just how serious mixing brake cleaner and heat can be.

Travis

Re: Warning to those who use brake cleaner
 

Great piece of information Travis. Thanks, any of us could be in that situation.

Re: Warning to those who use brake cleaner
 

Travis,

I had no idea! Great piece of information and thanks for sharing.

We take this product for granted everyday in the shop and at the track.

Mike Ferstl
SG SR 6091

Re: Warning to those who use brake cleaner
 

No **** man!
I'll forward this post.

Re: Warning to those who use brake cleaner
 

Wow, I bet a lot of us use brakekleen for cleaning metal before welding with argon. I've just been real lucky I guess. I'll be using a different cleaner from now on.

Re: Warning to those who use brake cleaner
 

Welllllll.............a little perspective.

I worked in the largest single site Phosgene plant in the world for 27 years. It killed 2 good men in that time and one other was permanantly disabled. HOWEVER, they were hit with a staggering dose (refered to as a lethal dose in training). way beyond 4 ppm. We wore monitors and dosing badges. It was not uncommon to get hit occasionally with 25-50 ppm, or more. It's all about TWA (time weighted average).
THERE IS NO WAY YOU COULD CREATE THIS MUCH COCL2 (phosgene) from a can of brake cleaner! One drop of liquid phosgene would barely be noticeable for more than a few seconds as it flashed to vapor. It has a distict sweet smell. You are more likely to encounter COCL2 by burning matress foam and releasing it that way.

There is treatment for exposure, as many people have survived. It's effects are severe and straight forward when exposed to a signicant amount. You drown from creation of fluid on the lungs. If you survive, you can have scarring from the release of CL2 (chlorine) which combines with water to make acid.

Don't get me wrong. Breathing any chemical is a bad idea. But fear of everything is a waste of lifes energy. There are nasty chemicals everywhere in our daily lives.Few people relize how much ammonia or chlorine goes down your local railroad.

Use common sense, but don't live your life in fear.

RIP

Re: Warning to those who use brake cleaner
 

In addition to the gas problem (wow), is the more obvious issue of skin penetration. I frequently see racers (and sometimed kids!!!) washing parts with carb and brake cleaner and not using gloves. These chemicals are definately fine enough to pass through the skin barrier, reaching the blood and taxing the liver to detoxify. It's clearly linked to cancer and easy to avoid.

Bruce Deveau

Re: Warning to those who use brake cleaner
 

Thanks for the additional info but you failed to mention what would happen when subjected to extreme heat such as welding. Would you mind forwarding what you just posted to the guy who wrote the article in the first place? I'm sure he would be glad to read a rebuttle to his incident.

According to the article he can be reached at www.BrewRacingFrames.com or by phone at Brew Bikes LLC, 336-385-BREW. I believe he may be the owner of the company.

In the meantime, I know I will be more careful when using chemicals around my garage.

Travis

Re: Warning to those who use brake cleaner
 

So are you claiming the doctors were incorrect in their diagnosis or could your numbers be wrong?

Re: Warning to those who use brake cleaner
 

W)W this is what i clean my hands with in the barn @ home!!! Get the greese right out from under you nails. Guess starting fluid only from now on!

Re: Warning to those who use brake cleaner
 

Most starting fluids are diethyl ether. Extremely flammable. The vapors are heavier than air so it migrates along a bench top or floor.

Re: Warning to those who use brake cleaner
 

Which numbers would be wrong? I would not question that the guy got sick. Or that you should not breathe any chemicals. I only question the "phosgene" assertion. Phosgene is a very lethal, yet very simple chemical. It's symptoms are harsh but very predictable. It is not a carcinogen. Many know that it is also referred to as "mustard gas", used in WWI as a terror weapon. Unlike agent orange or DDT it does not linger in the environment or your body.
My point is that the gentleman was affected by something. I have no idea what it was, but phosgene doesn't cause seizures, or suddenly hit you 2 weeks later. If I can find an MSDS on phosgene I'll post it.
It is easy to cause hysteria. Much more difficult to refute ignorance.

RIP

Re: Warning to those who use brake cleaner
 

MIKEY.........
You FAIL to address SUPER HEATED "phosgene" which would happen around a welding area !!
An MSDS would not cover that..........

Re: Warning to those who use brake cleaner
 

Hey Johny...........your lack of knowledge regarding chemicals is evident. Phosgene is COCl2. Were you able to cause its decomposition back to its original components, you would get CO(carbon monoxide) and Cl2(chlorine). Both of these chemicals have well known predictable effects on humans. Neither would cause the symptoms exhibited. In an incinerator(which we had to deal with waste streams) the CO will burn in the presence of O2 yeilding CO2. Many don't realize that pure CO is extremely flamable. The free Cl2 will combine with water vapor to form acid (HCl, often called muriatic or Hydrochloric acid). Which we then neutralized with a caustic stream.

Considering I was involved with this stuff for more than 27 years, and have a complete respect for it, it might occur to you that conclusions by "victims" based on ignorance and weak on facts might be in error.

Quit guessing and bring facts.

RIP

Re: Warning to those who use brake cleaner
 

When we got back from holidays the wasps had built a couple of huge nests, 1 under my deck, another under the eves. Picked up a can of wasp/hornet blaster from the local store but I used it all up & they were still buzzing in there. I remember reading this thread while in NZ & I thought that I would see if the stuff is lethal to insects. Shoved the pin nozzle in the nest sprayed for a couple of seconds & immediately action ceased. Problem solved.

Re: Warning to those who use brake cleaner
 

Failed to mention in my previous post that lethal stuff I tried was brakleen.

Re: Warning to those who use brake cleaner
 

Works great on scorpions. I don't know if it drowns 'em or freeze-dries 'em. No pain, no stain.

Re: Warning to those who use brake cleaner
 

I guess the only way you can be sure is to go out and weld through a puddle of the stuff. I don't think I would go to your company doctors though because they probably don't have 27 years working with the stuff. Try the doctors this man went to,you'll have a better outcome. Do we really know the strengh of the phosgene as he produced it accidently, not in a lab enviroment. The heat,argon,brakekleen all worked together to cause this. Have you ever tried that combo?