Will you miss the Pros?
If you will ,then get to a National Event this year. I guessing Sportsmen and the Pros will have seperate events In 08 .What does everyone else think?
Lyn Smith |
Not me..I have much respect for them,but little in common anymore...Have been hoping for separate events since the Gatornationals were held in Orlando a few years ago.[ so the "sportsman racer could enhance his/her experience"] I certainly don't think they will miss us,....
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YEA I MISS PRO STOCK TRUCK
-A/FIA 1981- |
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Joe, when do the new stats come out? I have run out of good stuff to read! Jim
Jim Wahl 6 Time National record Holder 2239 BF/S I miss Buster Couch also! 'cause Div.2 will always be "Buster's Rebels" |
We eat during pro sessions and hit the fence during s/ss.
Lee Norton Performance Punch Embroidery Digitizing Slowtime Motorsports I/PS '02 Firebird 231 V6 |
Went the D-1 Open and it was wonderful. The Dutch classic will have class, and all D-1 Opens have either Top Stock or Junior stock to let it hang out and no pro's. Relaxing and watched the catagories I want to without the nonsense. Actuall found a good seat. At this stage of life I can do without the Pro's..........By the way Saturday the Grove had lots of spectators due to thier creative marketing. Too bad Dave Ley does not have 6 identical twins for each division.
Joe |
Miss the pros? The time they take to run? the noise? the space their outfits take up in the pits? the fact they are the highlight and the Sportsman racing is relagated to Thursday when no one is there to watch?
Might be but.....? What about the Atmosphere at the race? the cash inflow of spectators? the attraction of sponsors money? the professionalism of their outfits and crews? Sportsman racing can be made a show of its own with spectators and sponsors but NOT without changes. Sportsman racing will not live as a participant sport like current points meets. It must be more professional, more spectator oriented and that would require HARD changes for the racers who live and breath bracket racing. Alcohol cars can be the draw if marketed. The TOP/STK and TOP/SS format if expanded can appeal and draw people and sponsors again. More racers can enjoy the return of Heads up racing at the same time as appealing to Spectators and sponsors. Comp has an appeal . The Super categories would take changes or could be moved to local racing. People who have an interest in these cars want to race them not watch them and they are not Spectator popular so no spectators would be drawn to the events. Bottom line is National events ARE THE events but they were ruined by time used by pros and lack of attention to the "dumbing down" occuring in Sportsman racing by poor planning and lack of attention to their appeal values. Maybe if NHRA has to pay attention to using Sportsman racing it will be the best thing that can happen. Dick Butler 3529 |
I acquired my own absolute, total hatred of "Pro" type cars back in the sixties at National Trails in Columbus. (Oh, I respect them, I just loathe them.)
This was in the day of push cars and no reverse. Whenever it was time for these cars, Clark Radar would call out on the PA system.."Wire Wheel...time for Wire Wheel". If you raced a regular car, this meant it was time to go take a nap. There was a traffic light arrangement in the staging lanes and it would go red when it was time for "Wire Wheel". It would take forever to push each one and get them started. They would enter at the finish line and push them towards the starting line. Then they would have to push them back and forth to get them turned around so they could stage. All too often, their tune-up sucked so bad, they would pop and crack, then break and blow oil everywhere. Wire Wheel? Good riddance. |
I agree and disagree with some of your purposed answers Mr. Butler...It will take a lot of work to make sportsman racing a large spectator draw, but it can be done...Instead of the Ashley & John show, tell the spectators about sportsman racers that bust their *** all week to play on the weekend. But I like how you push your new classes as an answer to sportsman problems, but I know I dont have a $150,000 SS car to run in a heads up race where the most money always wins!
The best approach is to educate the spectator on bracket racing instead of just turning everything in to ego-fed heads-up racing...It never helps when the announcer at a national event says "Coming up next is Stock/Super Stock, Now would be a good time to visit the mid-way and get a hot dog" ! And I dont know if anyone else has noticed, but most of the pro stock guys are getting shafted on post round interviews, instead we get to see ashley cry and hit a cone, or selzies kid drive a go-kart, or kenny bernstien tring to hire everyone elses crew! BUT...Its only an opinion |
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nope
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NOT ONE BIT
Allen Lambert |
As a young wanna be super stock racer i can really see the Pro show missing out the most. Think of a youngster going to a National event and wondering how he is going to get to that level. Guess what? SPORTSMAN that's how. I think the Pro's are going to be sorry.
David |
I agree with Mr.Briggs. |
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Many wont miss the Pros but have you thought what the plan might be to generate cash for prizes? What will happen to attract paying spectators? Sponsors? Racers?
Dick Butler 3529 |
I wouldn't worry too much about a lack of sponsor money. Look at the Sport Compact Series. They draw less people than a divisional race in the middle of nowhere and you still see cars with Mopar, Red Line, etc... on the sides of the vehicles. If anything I would think that the Pro cars' absence from national events would add to one's chances of getting a sponsor. A number of companies don't want to sponsor a sportsman racer because they don't need the extra exposure at a national event. Take Summit for example. What good is it for them to sponsor 3-4 sportsman racers when they get all the exposure they need from GA and Line?
I'm not trying to say that there's guaranteed money that will be injected into the sportsman ranks, just that the pros absence isn't the end of the world as far as sponsorship goes. If there's a market for manufacturer product at "sportsman" races, then there will be sponsors. The high $$$ may not be there, but I for one think that a little less sponsorship money would be more than compensated for by not having to deal with 4-5 hour pro sessions and a gaggle of people to drive through on the way to the staging lanes. As always, just my $.02 Jared Jordan 7551 SS/BA |
Message for the Dick Butler: I think you need to rethink your statement about Super Class racing. Walk through the pits at a National or Div. race and look at the money that we are spending with engine builders, chassis builders, tow vechicles ect. Super Class racers are very professional looking and some do have Major Sponsors. We need more announcers like Leo that understands S/Classes and can make it interesting for the spectators. Their are a lot of spectators that walk through our pit areas looking at the different types of cars that are in these classes. We are a very important part of the puzzle. You need to get your nose out of the air and look at the overall big picture. I am the first to the fence or stands to watch stock, super stock and comp. I have raced both stock and super stock in the past and have nothing but respect for them. I love sportsman racing and their is room for all of us. Steve Dillman
Steve Dillman |
I hope all the sportsman racers stick together and work together to build our sport up.As a manufacturer and racer DRE is excited about change we will be glad to support sportsman only races.The sportsman racers have supported our diaper business not the pros. Thanks for the support and remember we are all in this together,so lets all get along
WWW.ENGINEDIAPERS.COM |
Run the numbers!
US Nationals Sportman count times lets say $700 a pop. That includes entry fees ins. and crew passes for each racer. 600 sportman cars. Gross revenue $420,000. If HD Partners are good buisiness people they will keep the sportman racers as part of there circus. Just my .02 |
Steve Dillman,
Yes on all counts. More good announcers, Yes on you spend and support sponsors too but some questions come up. Are the spectators who walk through the pits at National events attending to SEE super classes? I know they appreciate the same things you quoted before. Nice cars, nice teams, etc while they are at the event in the pits. That is important. I think S and SS and SUPER classes are being "allowed to run "at an event where spectators are drawn by a combination of things mostly other than the Sportsman racing. 1) Pro teams racing Heads up. 2) A big Happening type atmosphere 3) Gee whiz smoke and Noise and danger of Funnies and T/F. 4) stronger advertising by NHRA because they feel the "show" will attract the spectators to PAY to watch. Example Sportsnational event at Columbus. NOT A CAR in the East parking Lots. Not a camper in the Camp grounds.Great cars running. When there are no Pros or if there were no Alcohol show at an event who would spectate? The local tracks are hurting on race nights and winning on Grudge nights.Doesnt that suggest similar things about style of racing and appeal? Everyone is entitled to enter and race but is there room to adjust for better appeal? What about S/G and S/c in T/Sportsman or T/Dragster form?( no studdering, no delaying) Thanks again. We all need these honest discussions and I appreciate other opinions. Dick Butler 3529 |
Dick,
I agree that the super classes aren't the best class for the spectators. However, most of us arent there for the spectators we are there to race. If we make the super classes heads up or more like t/s or t/d then it will just defeat the purpose of their creation, to make it affordable. If it goes that way it will be back to "he with the most money wins". The super classes allow a lot of racers to compete at the NHRA divisional and National level that would not otherwise be able to afford it. |
I agree
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Guys I TOTALLY agree on the costs of racing being out of control and the Super concept is great for this reason. I just feel as many have stated the studdering off the line is a weak link in the "show" Would removing that component be major problem? if spectator appeal would increase?
We all just like to race.... my concern is there has to be some form of Spectator appeal, to draw fans, this might keep sponsors, and NHRA spot to race. For this reason I think everyone should look past our cars and our forms of racing to how to improve the "drawing power" for all the above. Thanks Dick Butler 3529 |
WHATS THIS! Super class guys not being able to afford a real class car. Yeah right, maybe they need to cut back on the gazillion dollar motor homes and stacker trailers with 2 mega $$$$$$ cars with those BIG cubic inch engines and etc. Not to mention the electronics and latest gimick to run the number every run. NO amount of announcers will EVER be able to run thier mouths enough to attract spectators to watch studder, putt putt cars. It will never happen. Get rid of the crap and MAYBE they will watch. Sell both the S/C and S/ G cars and you will have enough to buid a S/S, Stock, or even a T/S, T/D car not to mention that over grown motor home and stacker trailer. Get real!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Who pulled your cord anyway?!
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When I go to the fence, I say just as many spectators watching S, S/ST as I do the super classes, ZERO, ok, maybe a couple, Nobody comes to watch sportsman racers period! Ask Bill Badar, want a crowd, do not use sportsman racers, get a jet truck, this will fill the stands, it was proved at the Div 3 race @ Norwalk.So GET OVER YOURSELF!
Tony |
I don't see how the new investment group could throw away the bottom line profit dollars that the sportsmen add to the coffers. In fact, if NHRA hadnt limited it so much they would have had more profit revenue for the sale.
*Racer entry fee *Racer's passenger (1 average?) *Food $ Spent *Souvenirs *Fans coming to see SS and S which as a whole out popularizes most professional categories. *Contribution from contingency sponsors that don't support pros. *Baby Boomers" walking the pits to see the sportsmen cars. Most of these revenues would fall off of bottom line profits equally. They will likely try to increase profits, not decrease them. Lynn |
What is a STREET ROD? |
>> When there are no Pros or if there were no Alcohol show at an event who would spectate?
Nobody's going to spectate anything if it's not advertised! I have in fact seen stands mostly full for Super or Rod categories at a National event before - accomplished by a fast-moving program, and an announcer that educated the fans. Throttle stops are no harder for fans to understand than handicapped starts. (see announcer) Index classes are an integral part of the national/div'l event experience. There's no need to mess with their classes. H*ll, growing up, I understood the Index classes before I did Comp! ;-) (Probably because it simply had never been explained to me at the time... see announcer again) Michael Beard <u>Staging Light Graphic Design & Printing</u> Duck Tape/Loctite Racing H - I - J/CM '80 Volare 360 Magnum |
Joe DeMarzo,..you are correct again. (I recieved no compensation for this endorsment) I will not miss the Pros and all the crap that goes with them (except Pro Stock). Guys like Dave Ley will always come up with some way to race Stock/Superstock. I'm confident that there are enough great minds in sportsman racing that the cream will rise to the top.
signed; John Warehime President of the Joe DeMarzo Fan Club Inc. a non-profit organization |
At the HD stockholders' meeting, some of the details were discussed, one ot them being the annual $800,000 annual payment from NHRA to NHRA Pro in ordeer to include Sportsman racers at national events, so nobody is going anywhere, at ;least not for the next 25 years (the agreement has a 25-year life).
- Larry |
We are all drag racers, we may not all have the same budget or equipment and may not all race in the same class - but we are all drag racers...
I personally think that anybody that talks bad about another class is the rear end of a horse. I am not there for the spectators ? they don?t pay the purse ? I do; I run Super Street because I love the sport and that is the class I CHOOSE to run. |
Jeff, would'nt it be nice ]fair] if the FANS paid the purse like most other forms of racing?
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Nobody's going to spectate anything if it's not advertised!
I agree with Michael Beard's comment. Maybe it takes more creativity now, but operators could follow Norwalk's lead at the recently completed Div 3 points meet. Does anyone think the National meets have just gotten too big? If your a sportsman, it takes four to five days to attend a national event!! There's too much jammed in there. If bad weather happens, the sportsmen are the ones who suffer. If this purchase/merger is handled properly, and NHRA makes the sportsman the focus of their own meets, with other marketing ideas, it has the potential to help sportsman racing. Manufacturers will follow the sportsman because that's where they want to be. Notice the midway's at the national meets, it's all about the sportsman. I wouldn't really miss the pros. Glidden, Jenkins, Maskins and others are the ones I miss. They're the ones we learned from. |
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