Parity in Stock
 

Looking at the Indy qualifying by class (stock) it seems that there is parity in each class. All the discussion about soft combinations, excuses and other "stuff' seems to be a mute point. There are plenty of racers who work on their cars and are competitive. Performance racing within bracket racing is the way to go. Lower the indexes and let performance take over. Never been to Indy but hope to some day. I may or may not make the field but I will give my best without excuses. Someday NHRA will figure out the horse power system and everyone will get what they want. Until then it is what it is. By the way Biondo, Fletcher, Richardson, DeFrank and many others are great bracket racers within class racing. Try getting one them heads up and see how fast they go. Maybe class racing is not for everyone. Until we land in Utopia I hope we all live in peace.

Re: Parity in Stock
 

Hey Joe, it sounds good but it will never happen........

Re: Parity in Stock
 

Good post,but wait until Class Eliminations are over before you come to the conclusion that there is parity.Some drivers are so good nowadays,that they can take .009 or less at the stripe,so on paper it looks close.I can tell from the qualifying sheet that more than a few cars are still not showing their hand.

Re: Parity in Stock
 

Four of the top 6 qualifiers in stock are the new challengers and cobra jets, and they're not even running all out. I guarantee, unless they screw up badly, a cobra jet will win AA/SA and a challenger or cobra jet will win A/SA. These brand new cars will still destroy the other cars that people have worked on for years heads up.

Re: Parity in Stock
 

Joe,

This theory about lowering the indexes will work to a point. I came up in the era where we ran off class records, all it took was some guy to bomb the record and your car was junk!

In the end, it was the well sponsored, heavily financed teams that held records that NO one else could touch and we went into a dive like today with falling numbers of racers...who wanted to race a guy that could run 5 tenths faster without trying. It was at that time that NHRA stepped in with the index system.

What's the answer? I don't know. But I do know that you can't make everyone happy at the same time, someone will always feel slighted.

Jim R

Re: Parity in Stock
 

With the exeption of the new mustang and challenger parity was not to bad.. There are several combos in most classes that can run pretty damn good!! But none are 6 tenths quicker than there closest competition!! It is MY OPINION that this new challenger would have never gotten such a favorable hp rating if the NHRA wouldnt have screwed up so bad on rating the new cobra jet!! Sorry BUT TWO WRONGS DONT MAKE IT RIGHT! These two cars are soooooooo underated that it makes me want to puke!!!!!!!!! The rumer at bowling green was that irvin johns was running is car close to B weight and went 9.9s. I hope this is true and he goes out and at least makes the cj's run hard to out run him. Not a big mopar guy but i am sure rooting for you!! (super charger) get real NHRA

Re: Parity in Stock
 

I agree with all of these posts and that is why I really enjoy bracket racing within class racing. The new cars are the hot lick right now as was the new firebirds and camaro's in 2000. In fact they were in G/SA & H/SA when they first came out. They woooped my camaro every chance they got. AFHP pushed them all the way to A-D/SA. The Mustages and Challengers are beautiful. A few of my buddies race AA-A and B/SA and I feel their pain but they are still working on their own combination hoping the the new cars get some HP to level the playing field. I can tell you if we went back to running off the national records it would cost more money to win and if we got rid of heads up it would cost about 3K for a rusty, beatup bracket car (I have never bracket raced but appreciate their skills) with a mail box for a hood scoop to win. The new combo's, Mustang's and Challenger's are real fast and have not reached its potential but I would not be unhappy to have one in eliminations (bracket race within class racing). I am looking forward to class today. I hope everyone unloads and let us see the real potential.

Re: Parity in Stock
 

Looking at the first round of Stock, I see that of the seven 2008/2009 cars ( Mustangs/CJ/Challengers) the worst of them is qualified 22 and that is in the tough index AA/S class. Of course after the second session that dropped all the way to the 23rd. spot. Then there's Big's car currently in the 141 spot.. These cars are fast right now, let alone after they get "Stock Eliminatored". Of course I'd like to see Lee in one of them....

Safe Trips All!

Stuck at work......

Also of interest to me is that Grace Howell is qualified 129th in BOTH Stock and SS. How do you do that?

Re: Parity in Stock
 

Joe:
Nice to see you exercising the ol mind (still) LOL. Your comments are valid ones. Especially re: the firebirds and camaros in the early/intro days. My guess is that NHRA will catch up with the performance of these new cars (over time). In the meantime, they are good for the sport, but certainly not for the individuals have been thrashing in those categories for years to attain their incredible performance levels.

They are beautiful cars and certainly have raised the dollar thershold for a state of the art (new bodied) stocker.

Hope to catch up w/ you at a race (before the powder shows up in New England)


Dean

Re: Parity in Stock
 

Maybe GM will make a blown LS7 motor available on the new Camaro and shed 600-700 lbs. to make them competetive w/the CJ's and Challengers.... WJ

Re: Parity in Stock
 

Joe,

You are dead on. The new cars are under-rated and will be fast for a while, but so were many others before them—a la LT-1 and LS F-bodies. That deal amounted to years of domination and much griping from many who competed against them. If the new cars were dead slow who would want one? I think it's great for the class, heck Don Garlits is racing Stock Eliminator! Hopefully Chevy will come out with a good combo for the new Camaro so all three new cars can do battle.

Once they (Mustang and Challenger) go fast they will get HP and be sucked back to reality until the next "hot" combo takes over (which could be an older car) and rules the roost. It's an endless cycle, which is why we work on our cars and continue to challenge ourselves to do better. Of course no one wants to get beat, especially those who work hard and spend lots of money, but it's not like they are getting beat (which they haven't yet), by a $5,000 car. A new Mustang of Challenger takes as much, if not more, investment than just about and other AA, A, B or C combo.

Evan

Re: Parity in Stock
 

Evan, I had the whole post written and decided to just not post it. It's inconsiderate (though I'm sure unintentional) remarks like that ("getting beat by a $5000 car") that keep me racing. Thank you! I've been slacking off a bit this year and now I have incentive to hit a few races again.

Re: Parity in Stock
 

Guys, the new challenger and the mustang are a whole different breed. Never before have purpose built race cars that you can't license for the street been legal for stock eliminator. You all need to look at these cars and see what I mean. I looked at Irvin's new Cahllenger at Bowling Green this past weekend. It's got a 4 link rear end, a single plane individual runner manifold with a 1000 cfm throttle body, a 600 lift cam, 12 to 1 compression, a fabricated aluminum oil pan, a carbon fiber hood plus racing seats and a whole lot more. What's this sound like? Super Stock maybe. At least the firebirds and camaros with the LT!'s and LS1's were street legal cars. Oh and by the way Irvin did go 9.99 @ 133mph at B weight. They haven't even started on these cars, the motor hasn't even been apart.

Re: Parity in Stock
 

Don't go around telling people you've got $4,000 in cash in the glovebox! :eek:

Re: Parity in Stock
 

Greg you have hit the nail right on the head......They Should Have Been SuperStock cars just like in the past, they do no fit the spirit of a Stock car.

Re: Parity in Stock
 

Greg, Bob, you both know why they are there! Come on! The $$$ guys wanted them there. You know the type. They don't like losing to $5000 cars. BTW Bob, what is the "spirit of Stock" in the 21st century?

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Their rear setup for one, we got busted when trying a 4 link type setup in the vettes years ago now its ok ? you still can not do it with the 12bolt and the race seats dont fit either, alum pan, intake is not what comes on production car. Billy they just dont fit stock as it is written.

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I should know better than argue with Billy but what the hell ! Go ahead Beard !!

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I agree 100% with Uncle Greg!

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Bob, no argument here I agree with you completely.

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Hey Billy I feel your pain.................:rolleyes:

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Billy , in context, I'm sure Evan meant no disrespect to a certain few guys. He's right about how much some of those guys have in those "old school" cars. Besides, I had to put almost twice that much into that damn Mustang to go 1.80 under.

Re: Parity in Stock
 

Mark, I'm absolutely certain that Evan meant no disrespect and I didn't post what I had originally written because it was Evan that said it and I'm also pretty sure that he knew that he would catch some flak from me for saying it. I'm sure that you understand. It's just the perception of a "$5000 car" used in that context that tweaks me.

Re: Parity in Stock
 

Billy,

My intension was to describe that even though the new Mustangs and Challangers haven't been scienced out for decades like many of the combinatins of the '60s and '70s, it still cost as much, or more, to get into that game. It was not to knock the guys racing a $5,000 Stocker.

Fact is, you aren't going to build a $5,000 car and go run 9s in AA or A, which is the point I was trying to make. In other words, it's not like Ford or Dodge offered a car for $5,000-10,000 that could go and wipe up guys who have spent close to six figures or more. Any decent-running CJ has close to $85,000-100,000 put into it the way my math works. $70,000 for the car, $5,000-10,000 in modern upgrades to transmission, converter and suspension, brakes and testing.

As for low-buck, I love it. I've been saying for the longest time that there should be more $5,000 5.0 Mustangs out there because anyone can have a wheels-up 11- or 12-second car that is a lot of fun and goes .60-1.00 under for under $10,000 (and that might include the trailer)! I don't know if you can do that with any other car, I'm sure there are combos, but the Mustangs are everywhere, they are cheap and many of factory parts can be used.

I am well aware that you don't have to spend a lot of money (of course "a lot of money" is relative, but I'm talking about $50,000-plus) on a Stocker to be respected, win races, have a fast car, have fun fighting the challenge of Stock Eliminator, etc. I am plenty aware that you and many others work very hard on your combination, even if you don't spend huge dollars. I appreciate you not flaming me, but giving me the benefit of the doubt.

Evan

Re: Parity in Stock
 

Joe ,

What have you been smoking?