Nitrous and .90 racing
 

Just wondering how ya'll(that's a southern word to all my northern friends, except Lynn, she knows how to use it) feel about different power adders and running the .90 stuff. Just a little curious.
Mike Griggs

Re: Nitrous and .90 racing
 

Not sure why you'd want to... To run T/D, T/S, OK, but not sure why you'd want that much complexity when a simple normally aspirated car with anything more than 750 hp can run the .90 number respectably.

The key in .90 is consistency/predictability, the more exotic/complex you go, the farther you go from that, IMHO.

Re: Nitrous and .90 racing
 

Mike, you wanna be able to dump and half the balls to be able to take the stripe? Seems like the only reason to have it.

Re: Nitrous and .90 racing
 

used to be legal in ihra, i remember a yellow chevelle running 10.90 at 170. and n.o.s. was paying contingency. like it or not? i didn't really care, but would of had a system on the car myself.

Re: Nitrous and .90 racing
 

You mean NOS is not legal ? oops

Re: Nitrous and .90 racing
 

Bryan,
I thought your air bottle looked a little funny....was wondering why it was blue and you kept putting a torch to it...haha!

Rob K.

Re: Nitrous and .90 racing
 

I have wished I had it a couple times. At some tracks where track prep is poor, cough cough, Indy, cough cough, my car will sometimes launch left or right a good amount. If this happens, I can almost guarantee it's going to slow me down about .02. I have wished I had it to catch up. After this happens and I'm sittin there on the stop, I wonder if I should just turn the delay box off, thus opening the stop, and taking off to catch up. But it's always by the time I make a decision, I'm already off the stop and on my way. Usually not with a good outcome.

Re: Nitrous and .90 racing
 

I have wondered about this rule too. About 22 years ago I asked an NHRA official and was told that they didn't want it used to make big top-end speeds to take the stripe (this was in the era that S/G cars were running around 133 mph). Many of us had mid-low 9 second cars with a throttle stop coming on in 2nd gear, so we had an override button with as much acceleration as most N2O systems. I remember helping a big-name S/G racer from the area when he broke a trans and needed to change it between rounds, and I saw the hidden N2O system in his car (solenoids were hidden in the lower A-pillar area, tubes apparently ran into the intake through a larger hose disguised as a vacuum hose). I looked at him and laughed, never said another word about it.

In the Alston Super Series (which included standard .90 classes as well as 7.90, 11.90 & 12.90), there was no prohibition on it in the non-NHRA .90 classes (I checked specifically). There were a few users, such as doorslammers running 7.90 class. I put a system on my 11.90 car for a race at a non-factored track that was known for very high corrected altitude readings. The car would barely run 11.90 at that track, and I planned to use it if the air got too bad. I did use it one pass in the worst part of the day, and it looked like I was on my way to a loss (car would have run a 12.00 or so), but I gave it a tiny shot and took the stripe. A couple of guys went to the tower and tried to protest (I had previously cleared it with both the division director and the track).

Regards,

Re: Nitrous and .90 racing
 

Come on Derek!!!! You know you want to say it.

Re: Nitrous and .90 racing
 

Okay Mike I'll take the bait.

I can't understand why superchargers and turbochargers are allowed, but nitrous isn't?
They allow power-adders that the engine should be built to handle (drop in compression ratio, etc) at a cost of a couple thousand dollars at least, but a simple $500-600 nitrous system that could put an 11 second car into the tens and therefore possibly allow another competitor into the world of divisional and national racing is not allowed??

Spraying to take the stripe I can understand somewhat, but until you realize you may be getting into more trouble using it for that versus leaving it alone (assuming the car will get close to the 10.90 standard before adding the bottle), the argument doesn't hold much weight in my opinion. I've seen a few racers do it, and so far my record trying it is 1-3. I'd rather dial the car honest and do my job than second guess the finish line. Unless the traction is subjective, I leave the juice off when bracket racing.

Now granted I'm probably in the minority with a 3600 lb SBC street car, but for a $9K pump gas engine that runs 11.40-11.50 @ 115 mph in the heat, a little shot of the bottle would allow me to participate in the "entry level" pro-tree class (keep in mind NHRA used the term entry level meaning no double entry at nationals, no national championship, etc). I know people have a lot of time and money in their cars regardless of class, but I think more could participate.

Just an opinion from an "outsider" who'd like to race!

Derek

Re: Nitrous and .90 racing
 

This may be closer to happening. Several divisions have now allowed N2O in diesels in the .90 classes. I know D4, D5 & D7 have had diesels race LODRS races with N2O. Here is video of one running this past weekend:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=laX-482na_M

Regards,

Re: Nitrous and .90 racing
 

Your all missing the point... A blower or super charger, and a turbo charger can not be changed going down the track. You cannot change the boost or the pullys,

n2o is a chemical. It is also very explosive, do you want some jurk next to you with no brains with this stuff? I have been to the track and seen a intake explode, it hit joe deluca in the head...

If you want to go faster take some weight out OF your car, it takes some work so get off your fat lazy *** like most racers do..

To get more cars at the div. Races, nhra could change the rule on the weight..2800 lbs. Is so stupid. And you know that a heavy car is not as safe as a lite one on. ( i mean mass)

n2o just makes a soso driver look good, cant cut a lite just hit the bottle ...wow


we have no weight rule in the southeast 10.90 outlaw assn so come race with us

dan moore prez.......

Re: Nitrous and .90 racing
 

I agree with this part (although it probably wouldn't help Derek). My car (like many "old school" S/G cars) is too light to run S/ST while meeting the limitations on added ballast. It would cost a lot less to run S/ST than to update my car enough to be competitive in today's S/G environment.

Re: Nitrous and .90 racing
 

Ah, of course. Everyone that builds a blower or turbocharged motor can't possibly blow it up (hmmmmm, Top Fuel and Funny Car ring a bell??), but all the nitrous racers will (guessing you based this on watching Fast and the Furious). Last I checked, backfires happen on carburetors without a nitrous system, so does that mean we all have to go to EFI to be safe now? And of course I can change my nitrous settings as I go down the track. I'll just keep the hood open, launch the car and change the jets as I see fit AS I'M RACING! :rolleyes:

Beautiful closed mind sir. You've never met me, yet I'm fat, lazy and an *** all at once. Okay, I go glass hood, bumpers and light seats, and why not dump the full 3 inch exhaust for 70 additional pounds on a car already making 425 rwhp. Now I can run 10.90s. But wait, that stuff isn't free! So I'm shelling out $1,000 plus to run the index, now my car isn't streetable. Or instead we come back to the $500-600 nitrous system idea, and I can still enjoy the car both ways? Hmmm tough call....

A little 411, the nitrous is on the car for TNT and fun runs at the moment, and last I checked racing was supposed to be for fun. And another fact, if you cut a crappy light, going faster than your index or dial-in doesn't offset that bad light to get you a win. But thanks for the tip! Maybe I'll get off my butt and try that. Should work great for a so-so driver like me....

Derek Putnam

Re: Nitrous and .90 racing
 

Come on Derek, just because you drive a nova with a 2.2l ricer engine in it, you don't have to be so mean. If you really wanted to go fast, i'll loan you a couple a hundred horsepower to get your sled movin'.
Mike

Re: Nitrous and .90 racing
 

OK guys cool your tempers. It's not personal.
The main reason NOS is not permitted is because of the"Unfair Advantage" factor.

Unfair Advantage: for example- you launch and on take off you know you spin badly,you are behind as you approach the finishline. You hit the nitrous which shoots you forward to take the finishline. Giving your competition no fair chance to DRIVE the finishline.

Now, all NOS users will not use it like this, but it's there so that they can if they choose. So remove the NOS and remove the Unfair Advantage factor.

Get it? Now stop calling each other names and behave. We want more 10.90 racers to join us, not think we're a bunch of Monkeys.

Re: Nitrous and .90 racing
 

Ed,
That's the way it was explained to me 20+ years ago, but I used my throttle stop override the exact same way (my stop was just activated by a switch on the shifter). Of course the massive speeds in .90 racing today kinda negates that advantage.

Regards,
Michael Pliska

Re: Nitrous and .90 racing
 

Your right i dont know you. And you will never understand the diff. Between the two power adders. And we are a long ways from running ( nitro methane ) you just will not get it.. End of story........

Too explode a engine with a blower or turbo, you need to have a engine failuer, not the fuel..... Nos, like i said is a chemical

look at the flash points of
gas
alcohol
nitro methane
nos

its not the liquid that burns, its the fumes. You dont need compression for nos to fire, i still have an open mind. but you will never tell me that it is fair to race nos in the .90 classes

Re: Nitrous and .90 racing
 

momy i dont want to be a monkey, i want to be a (DONKEY) HAHAHAHAH..how am i doin?????

Re: Nitrous and .90 racing
 

Yep Michael
That's what we all did back in the "olden days".
But we couldn't take the finishline with 150-250hp burst with any thing but Nitrous.



Yep

Re: Nitrous and .90 racing
 

Dan, I'm glad you don't really talk like you type (no one would ever understand you).
I suggest we all start saving our pennies to buy you a spell check... and don't worry hon, you're a donkey most of the time :D

:D

Re: Nitrous and .90 racing
 

Ed,

Nothing personal; just defending my my fat lazy *** side.
I pose this question: if nitrous is such an unfair advantage in a class where the key is to run your index/dial-in, why isn't EVERY BRACKET RACER USING IT? Maybe because if you dial YOUR car correctly and cut the tree, it doesn't matter what the other guy does. He could whack the gas a dozen times, I'm still driving the stripe the same.
And for the record, I'd be using the spray on a timer to run the 10.90 standard. Funny thing about timers, I hear some index racers use them.

Thank you, we have a winner! Nitrous isn't allowed, but what's to stop you from running a mega-horsepower set-up on the throttle stop til the last 100 feet then go wide open throttle? Nothing in the rules against that, or hitting the override if you "spin", or even running 150+ mph in a class where some guys are going 125-130 like a 10 second car would. But nitrous isn't allowed, and beyond the "possible" hazards of idiots not paying attention to their set-ups, it's an unfair advantage?? Well I guess I just don't "get it" according to Mr. Moore.

I see people warming their race cars up on jacks instead of jack stands. Dangerous, and yes could cause a nasty accident. Have we stopped selling jacks? Fuel burns with a match, but we still sell fuel. Should we punish all b/c of one example?

Dan, I had a small talk with Snakes recently. Since you now know who I am, maybe next time you will consider thinking before typing. I understand everything can be used for good AND bad, but maybe try seeing the "other side" next time instead of being too quick to judge without having ALL THE FACTS.

All in good debate,

Derek

Re: Nitrous and .90 racing
 

Nah, a so-so racer like me would just be wasting my time in a class that seems to not welcome fresh faces, even in the new S/ST Association. Of course, someone could always use a first round duck like me.....

Re: Nitrous and .90 racing
 

ok here it is, .500 pro tree we launch, your out on me because i have a real race car with a 540 ci motor, so i'm on the stop, ( YOU WITH ME SO FAR) ... half track your out 5 car lengths on me.. 900 ft. im going by you (STILL THERE) i start to back in to you at 1100 ft. now i got you, i look for the strip and you hit the bottle i look back at you and your 10ft. in front of me why because you used NOS.. we get the time slips i had a .007 lite you had a .045 lite.. i ran a 10.94 backing in to you, you run a 10.92 with the juice now thats as polite as i can put it.... see you just don't get it...

i love T/S T/D pro mod and all of the other class that let you run the bottle its just not fair in our class to use it

i'm sorry that you got so mad, but your the one with the closed mind, you ask any one about our assn. and they will all tell you i ask every one about something before we make a rule or decision.

Re: Nitrous and .90 racing
 

Oh and you can't fix stupid in the pits

Re: Nitrous and .90 racing
 

Okay, the the lazy *** will try it. Let's see, an .045 light and a 10.92 gets the stripe in front of an .007 light with a 10.94. Um, don't think so, unless your math goes against the simple form of addition.
.045 light and a 10.92(assume with an 0) equals 10.965
.007 light with a 10.94(assume with an 0) equals 10.947.
So you want to explain again how my .045 light and a 10.92 gets there 10 feet in front of your .007 light and a 10.94?
Yep, you said it alright!

How is it I explain my side with examples, but you choose to go back to the "spray to take the stripe" mentality when I said in plain view:
Choosing to ignore the possibility they are more alike than you think???????

Re: Nitrous and .90 racing
 

You understand Dan when he's talking? I just look at him smile and nod my head every once and a while.

Re: Nitrous and .90 racing
 

Hi Derek
Actually, you're wrong. The Southern 10.90 Outlaw Association welcomes new faces with open arms. But like any good organization we have rules.
No weight Minimum, No nitrous, No illegal electronics to name just a few.

We can debate the nitrous issue until we're blue, but the bottom line is that it is not allowed. Sorry.

We have many heavy and street legal cars racing with us. You would be welcome to join us. (I like feisty people)
May I suggest picking Mike's brain to build a faster engine or saving up and purchasing a turbo system?
(I have a turbo car and there is no better way to boost your hp legally and within budget.)

Hope to see you at the track some time. I test at Gainesville.

Re: Nitrous and .90 racing
 

Not sure what the whole fight is about here. Nitrous is not legal in a .90 class because of the ability to control it down track. It's not important whether that's the case or not, or whether you can/can't dream up some scenario where that could/couldn't happen. I'm pretty darn sure that's why NHRA doesn't allow it.

But more important is the point that no amount of pissing and moaning about that rule on this forum will change anything. So... get over it, and then get out there and race. In .90 racing, the most important thing is practice, practice, practice. Practice hitting the tree. Practice dialing the number. Practice playing the stripe.

Re: Nitrous and .90 racing
 

Shelley,

I apologize. I meant the comment from my argument on nitrous, but instead in came out negative on multiple angles. I know people have to be happy the Southern 10.90 Outlaw Association was formed (well, at least Mike and Ernie are!), and maybe someday I'll be able to play with the big dogs. My current 383 SBC cost me $9K, and in a 3100 lb car ran 10.60s in good air. But I can't rationalize gutting my car at the moment to get to the S/ST standard. But the next pump gas motor will get me there.

Chris,

I posed this already, and since everyone is avoiding it like that plague, I'll state it again. How is nitrous ON A TIMER different than a throttle stop? What does the throttle stop do? Control the amount of power on the car as you go down the track. What does a nitrous timer do? Somewhat of the same thing. AMS makes a turbo timer that you can adjust for the amount of boost going down the track. Can you hit an override on your throttle stop? I'll say yes if it is set-up that way. I still see similarities here.

If I'm not mistaken, NHRA go rid of nitrous b/c of engine problems (oildowns, etc.). But people can build N/A engines, or even supercharged and turbocharged engines that can expire (despite what the expert Dan Moore thinks) and oil the track.

I'm not pissing or moaning (if it comes off that way, my apologies). I just don't see why limit the potential of a class by a single rule (if I remember correctly, Silver Dollar allowed the bottle until this year. I was excited to go race with them until I heard the rule had been changed for 2009). And last I checked, if you don't agree with something, you have the ability to voice your opinion. If you choose not to say anything and nothing is changed, you have no one to blame but yourself. If you voice your opinion (and maybe even back it up with facts like I have) and nothing gets changed or even considered, then you can take your business elsewhere knowing you tried to have the powers see the other side. Would you continue to pay for something you didn't enjoy, bad service or crappy parts without trying to fix the problem(s)?

Complaining on forum boards doesn't matter? God luck explaining that to the millions that use them for that (and in some cases, people listen and consider a change if the argument has validity).

I'm not trying to single anyone out, create trouble or make a mess. I am presenting and defending the "nitrous side" and hoping some might see it and understand that more racers could participate if it's considered and added with a strict ruling.

Thanks to all for listening.

Derek Putnam

Re: Nitrous and .90 racing
 

One takes away power, the other adds it.

Other than getting it off your chest, nope. I'm pretty sure Graham Light's not reading this...

Re: Nitrous and .90 racing
 

I understand. But what happens when the time in the throttle stop elapses? the car gets additional power. What happens when the nitrous timer starts up, the same thing. As you mentioned, they do it in different ways, but a similar effect happens. At some point after launching, the car picks up additional power.

Thanks Capt. Obvious. I wasn't aiming for that angle at this point (I am aware of how to contact NHRA since the division 2 office is about 20 minutes from my house). I was aiming more for the Southern 10.90 Outlaw Association and the S/ST class that is run at Silver Dollar that until this year allowed nitrous to be used. Again, say nothing and usually nothing is changed. Bring a topic to the table and some may consider/re-consider it.

Re: Nitrous and .90 racing
 

I'm sure the discussion has greatly advanced your case. :rolleyes:

Re: Nitrous and .90 racing
 

I thought Graham Light was dead

Re: Nitrous and .90 racing
 

"Not Hardly"

who said that?

Re: Nitrous and .90 racing
 

Derek, give it up man. Some will just never get it.

I want nitrous in Super classes so I can spend a lot less than some "real race cars" and still make them look like idiots at the stripe. There, I said it. "Some" Super class racers (not everybody, friends) don't like racing against the jug because they largely don't understand how to race against anything but a clean wheel and don't want somebody spending $500 and one night in the garage to embarass their high-HP combos when it's time to "light the lamps" on Sunday.

By the way, Derek, the guy you're arguing with is running a left-steer roadster in a class with "Street" in the name after moving up from a tube-chassis door car. Just thought that would really get your blood pressure going. But Dan, I still like you even if we don't agree on this one.

The serious bracket racers (both of them) reading this thread are ROTFLTAO.

Re: Nitrous and .90 racing
 

hey im playing by the rule book na na nana na

AND ITS A CONVERTIBLE hahahahah

Re: Nitrous and .90 racing
 

I would have to dial honest, i wouldnt wanna the nitous assisted ride tapping past me as i tried to back into him with my high hp/dollar s/st car. But knowing he had it would make me adjust and run the race differently. I know from experience you can dial a car with it easily if you just needed to run the #.