Lvd td issues
Congratulations Kenny.
I am not taking anything away from you as you did an outstanding job this year. HOWEVER, I was not going to say anything and just let things go, BUT my wife and I talked about what happened with this series this year and we agreed that we should at least speak up so other racers know what can happen to them. We have an issue with the track and the "Lebanon Valley Top Dragster Series". The "rule changing" DURING the POINTS SERIES is BS. Not once BUT several times during the series. This series started out as 16 cars, then 32, then ?? etc, etc, with a 7.49 or quicker dial. Then on the last weekend (with 2 races left) they change the format to an 8.25 dial? They can use the "financial" excuse all they want but to change it on the LAST points weekend is ABSURD. How many people COULD have raced it earlier in the year, how many people would have raced it since they did NOT need all the "extra" stuff (safty gear, nitrous, TD license, etc, etc) and could have made the 8.25 bump. Also, what about the amount of $$ some people spent to race this series purchasing all the TD stuff. This rule changing DIRECTLY affected my wife. She was number two after the first weekend with only 1 round between her and first. She broke her engine, we put in the backup engine (still running high 7.50's but could not run the 7.49 that was mandated at the time for the second race weekend) so she raced Super Pro instead missing those 2 races. If this 8.25 rule was used then the out come of this whole series could have been different. Since she missed those 2 races (1 weekend) she knew she could not make up the points needed so she stopped attending even though we had the 7.00 engine back in the car. I'm not saying Kenny would not be number one, all I'm saying things MAY have finshed differently. Gee, I wonder how much EXTRA money they made making the 8.25 rule on the LAST points weekend? I'm sure they had MANY more entries because of it, ....NOT. At least on a good note, there won't be a TD series next year. Next time, instead of just MAKING UP RULES as we go along, just use a VERY SIMPLE solution that has been used for years, have all the PAID points members vote on the change, if it passes fine, then there is NO beef. To change rules on the fly as you see fit is total BS. I'm NOT blaming anyone and I applaud the people that put it together for their hard work on getting a series to happen and finding sponsors. I'm just pointing out the FACTS. Kenny did a great job this year, I just wanted racers to know what could happen to them. Frank Zeffiro |
Re: Lvd td issues
Frank I know that Scott came over and ask my opinion on the lowering the min. to 8.25. And to be honest and not even thinking about the points I thought it would be a good idea to try to get more cars involved so it would look better for the track. I guess looking at it from your point or Kenny Moses point of view it may not have been the right thing to do. Frank how many cars raced on Sunday and how many went 7.49 or quicker and how many slower
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Re: Lvd td issues
WOW!!!.... if I had known about the drop to an 8.25 minimum, I definitely would have been there with my 7.70 car....
Frank has valid points to his arguement... but I can also see the people running the series making adjustments to keep the series running.... but more publicity would have helped... and timing is most important... |
Re: Lvd td issues
Hi Vince,
If I remember right there were 16 cars on Sunday with only a couple slower then the 7.49 (I don't think anyone was slower than 7.70) which actually didn't matter because it was changed to 1/8th mile due to wind. I understand the $$ thing and trying to draw more cars BUT this should have been done either at the begining or saved for next year. My whole rant is that ANYTHING that is a BIG change (that can affect the points series) should be voted on by the members. To do this at this time in the series was crazy. I'm not upset at any one person or the track, I just want everyone to know that when decisions of this MAGNITUDE are made all the series members should be called together instead of us finding out in a casual conversation with another racer. If this was voted on would it have changed anything, maybe or maybe not but at least all the issues would have been brought forward and heard. ALOT of racers were affected by this decision, those that raced the series and those that did not BUT could have. Charlie, My point exactly........ |
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Kenny WHO ??
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Kenny Moses the Lebanon Valley Top Dragster God
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Frank how did Laura do or did both of you race
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I was waiting for this subject to come up, and since I am the one who made the decision in question, and I am the one who had to make the changes because Wayne Hofmann was involved in the final points, I am the one Frank is referring to.
So………… At the beginning of the season Lebanon Valley wanted a Top Dragster Series that consisted of quick dragsters that fell into the NHRA advanced E.T. certification. Being 7.49 and quicker, that made the maximum bump simple based on the rules. Those of us involved caught a lot of criticism. We all followed what the track was looking for in the series, and had been told over the winter that the amount of cars to fill the 16 car should be available. So on to the first weekend of racing. The field was very short, and the pay out was covered. Lebanon Valley lost money, but supported the series. Frank and Laura went to the finals on that Saturday, and we moved on. Soon after that a mutual decision between Wayne, myself, and the race track was made to open it up to 32 cars as to prevent the wide spread opinion that many racers were not going to show up in fear of not qualifying. Again, we couldn’t fill the field with 32 cars, yet the track covered the pay out, losing money again. So going into this weekend, seeing that there was a good chance that attendance would be up, and that looking at the Quick 32 car field shows for next year, Wayne and I looked at slowing the maximum to see just how many cars would spend the money, and run the T/D races, and at the same time at least cover the pay out for a T/D race. Wayne and I talked to the racetrack, and they had no problem with it. Yes, it was done for the finical aspect of the series. Does anyone know how much money Howard has to spend this year on everything that has happened? I guess it was a way to be self sufficient and actually have a couple of races that would pay there way instead of taking from the gate and other classes that run weekly……………… Obviously the 5 round effected the out come of the points gained on Saturday, and was brought to me as the problem it has turned out to be. Frank and Laura explained the issue that Laura could have raced all year and feels that they were forced out by my decision, then had it switched with no time, or fairness. And I agree…..it was unfair, and it did keep out a lot more people than it should have. I wish it was March of 2009 again……. Sunday morning I had a large group of racers who were not happy with me, and I was a man enough to face every one of them and explain my decision. I quickly realized that no matter what I did, it was going to be wrong in someone’s eyes. After 5 races of doing what the series was designed to do, I was hoping that I could get the last 2 races to do something for the racetrack. Well, there is my side of things. Frank has made his points well, but I want it known that he is directing this toward me. Lebanon Valley was involved in the decisions, but they were based on ideas and a layout that had been looked at by the two people that everyone in the series expected to make decisions on everything from parking spots, to qualifying times, rules violations, tech department complaints, scheduling, posting results, finding sponsors and funding for the final points, trophies, winners checks, and decals. So that being said, I see that to some, I need to take care of what makes all this run smooth, but when the hard choices need to get made, Its time to make it public, and show all the negatives of what a lot of us have worked on. Frank, unfortunately I’m glad there will be no series either…….I have learned that it is not worth all the time and effort so as it can all come to a conclusion like this on a forum for the world to see. At one time Wayne and I looked forward to this series, but now, its done, and the Quick 32 series should eliminate all the issues that came up this year. Frank, the better news is that your issues with me, and that’s what they are, will now guarantee that you’ll never have to deal with my ignorance and bad choices again. Your $70 refund that Laura requested is coming to you for the Series Registration, and it’s coming from my pocket. I’m sure I’ll have to respond to more of this topic, but I really don’t have much else to say. I’m busy at work, and I have people I work for that can look past a few mistakes I’ve made and know that at the end of day I’m looking out for the big picture, and those around it. Fortunately I surround myself with people, racers and engine builders that keep issues of great opposition private and not to entertain the world, and ultimately hurt the reputation of both sides involved………………..especially the last part I just mentioned. Scott Hall |
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Scott,
Good for you. It's funny that certain people complain, but they never thought about doing what you and Wayne did, put together something that should have been appreciated. Frank, since the track in your eyes is always junk maybe you should try a different sort of racing and stop complaining. Scott & Wayne great job this year. |
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Scott,
I'm not trying to slam any one, it's just how unfair this was. As I said, it was the timing of the decision and how it was presented. If this was stated at the beginning of the series, no problem. We don't care about the $70, it is the priciple. As I said yesterday, I can see your point, however as you know there was NO WAY that the entries would cover the payouts. It was known from the beginning that this deal would have to be paid by the track. As I said in a number of posts, my hats off to all the folks (Scott and Wayne especially) that allowed the TD series to happen this year including the sponsors. I know ALOT of personal dollars were spent and I'm not questioning any of that. MY ONLY BEEF is the 8.25 rule change, the timing of it and how it was presented, PERIOD. I hope next years Quick 32 races take off, HOWEVER, you know this as well as I, the track WILL have to pay the payout. Hopefully they make it up on the back end (spectators, food, etc.). Hemi, The track doesn't need me, it's doing that all by itself. If you don't like what I have to say, DON'T READ IT. Vince, After finding out about the 8.25 thing it made us re-evaluate and we decided to sit it out. |
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Never ran the series this year due to a late start and honestly not 100% agreement with the rules either. Mainly the dial in rule which is a joke - don't worry what I or anyone else runs - as long as my dial is faster than the slowest car qualified everyone should keep their mouths shut or make their cars go faster. And from what I remember I was all for the series and as frank said it changed weekly - last year we were going to have a quick 8 for this year. I can care less about the number of cars just make it fast. If not then I will buy a stock 502 crate motor and put that in my car - then begin to complain that I want the rules changed so I now can compete going 8.70.
As said in many other forums and posts - this is supposed to be TOP DRAGSTER not super pro. As far as Howard paying out money who gives a rats ***. Did ANYONE expect the series to be profitable from the start ?? Is anything in life a instant profit or is there always a peried of break even and even loss ? And if the flood that happened is of any reference it should not be - reason why we have insurance. There is a reason why tracks down south have 5-10,000 people in the stands at every race - because they have the fast cars. Keep the fast cars away and you will never get the people. Pay the money - and not 1,500 to win a super pro race and the crowd will come to see the cars. The quick 32 will be a super pro race next year with the only saving grace being the pro comp series coming. That is unless the quick 32 has a very nice payout and we get the top sportsman cars to come and maybe it will be a quick 32. As far as hemi - why create a new sign on and say your opinion hiding behind your screen name ?? . |
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After talkin to Wayne last night the did the real stand up thing to do. We all do need to remember there is going to be problems and Wayne and Scott cant get flusterated and they do these races cause they love the sport and the class TD. And as far as the Q32 being a super pro race I believe you are wrong we were getting anywhere between 12-14 dragsters only all quicker than 7.49 so now you are going to open it up to door cars and raise the min et I dont think you will see anything slower than 8.25 on any given weekend which is better than taking a 7.2 car and chasing down a 12.5 car
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Some Facts and Some Observations that have failed to be mentioned
Approximately one year ago wayne came up with the idea to put together a top dragster series at Lebanon Valley He put together a Pilot race thanks to the help of Andy from Best Sanitation and Rick from A-1 Autobody. It was a hit. Prior to that the only time your read about LVD on the internet was someone bashing the place. he took the steps to do something positive for the track. Over the winter through the hard work of Wayne and Scott Best Sanitation A-1 Autobody Innovative Performance Ken Moses Racing Transmissions H&H Masonary and Kinsella Carpentry all stepped up and put there money up to make this deal work. They did not have to do that but they did it for us to have a place to race. No One has put a single thank you to any of them up here! The track has stepped up and given us conditions capable of getting six second cars down the track routinely that is a big accomplishment. At the beginning of the season the fields were a little short. Howard Commander reached into his own pocket to fill the payouts. He did not have to do this. I can tell you that any other track with the exception maybe of Atco would have prorated the payout. Howard refused. You can say you dont care what he payed out but I do because bottom line it went to us (the racers) When the flood came track employees were up to there waste in sewage water moving trailers so that racer's equipment wouldnt get damaged. The same racers that use the place as a free storage facility for their equipment later tried to blame the track for damages. That has nothing to do with insurance that is commitment to helping racers out. Then Ken Moses stepped up and went above and beyond by offering to fix racers transmissions for free. He didnt have to do that but he did it for the racers. Thats what this sport is about Was this a perfect series? By no means. Then again what is perfect. Everyone compares this to epping. which has become in two years a really great series. They also had their share of issues getting off the ground. The difference is the racers in that series had the tact and class to handle things on a face to face basis not posting to the rest of the world. Vince I agree 100% that the quick 32 next year is going to be a better deal. I think it will bring in more cars and I dont care what the bump is. But I agree it should be relatively quick As to what the spectators think I really dont care. I dont race to put on a show. I am a bracket racer and I race because thats what I enjoy. It so happens that right now I have a fast enough bracket car to race top dragster so I will do that. If I wanted to put on a show for spectators I would have built a wheel stander. I want to race and go as fast as I can do so consitantly If some have you have forgotten what this sport is about then you dont have to show up but dont ruin it for those of us who want to be there Last thing I post cautiously is that Howard does not need this series or the drag strip to survive. Its the truth and we all know it He keeps this stuff going for us. Be careful what you post and maybe once in a while take the time to thank him for keeping drag racing going up there. Sorry for the long post but as long as we're posting facts lets get it all out there. B.J. Masiello |
Re: Lvd td issues
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I dont have a dog in this fight but I am a spectator and I just wanna say I hope all of you continue to race at the valley because I enjoy watching you all run....Vince Musolino, Wayne Hoffman, Ken Moses, Frank and Laura Zefirro, Scott Hall, B.J. Masiello,Bill Krug, Brian Hansbury everyone that competed in the series and those that are considering....I am just a fan but I appreciate all that you guys do and hope the the quick 32 deal for next year is a big success. Also thanks to Howard for providing a place for spectators and racers to come to and the whole staff at LVD.. Thanks Jeoffrey York |
Re: Lvd td issues
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Why is it a big accomplishment for a 6 second car to get down a racetrack - not one track should be looked at as stepping up for that. Not only should a six second car be able to go down any track - a 5 second car should be able to go down if conditions are correct. To me this is a situation where the track is at a no win - if the track is great, well it should be - if it's crap then it sucks and most wont go there anymore. Of course Howard should have reached in his pocket - he tried to make the series a success and I will give him credit for at least trying. But does he deserve any extra credit - absolutely not !! It is a business for him and really cost him a few bucks for the attempt. As far as the flood it is the track employees who should have been there - they work there. As far as any equipment damage to persons property - that is 100% NOT howards problem. The insurance mention was because money was mentioned of what Howard went through and how much he did this year (unless I read it wrong). Again it is his business and improvements to the track are normal and expected. Kenny did a great thing by offering his services - and if I recall I was the one who mentioned someone should have stepped up and had a fundraiser to help the people who got hurt in the flood - so I agree helping other races is a great part of this sport. Nobody has forgotten what this sport is about - everyones criticism and compliments are designed to try and make improvements for all racers. To say the spectators is a non issue and we dont race to put on a show then that is thinking like a bracket racer who has no problem with the 10 bucks a car payout for the winner. Again refering to the guys down south - why is it they get in for FREE and race for 5,000. For some reason I doubt it is the good heart of the track owner reaching into his own pocket. The spectators pay the purse and the entry fees. So once again if you are trying to get a fast series (with fast cars) you need spectators. As far as showing up I already had a few private messages about fast cars not running it no matter what happens. I was not able to support the series due to a very late start this year and if Wayne is involved next year I will support any series he runs. But I will state my opinions in what I think should be, and like the few people who have issues and will not run again, if I disagree with things I also will not run. And to have the attitude that Howard does not need any of you is exactly the payout are what the are for normal racing up there. From what I am told the payout is 10 bucks a car to the winner - I DO NOT KNOW THIS 100% SO ANYONE CORRECT ME IF I AM WRONG !!! So let's look at this - if the car count in super is 85 cars the payout for a WIN is 850 - sorry but that's a bit low if you ask me. Last time I checked that is 7 rounds - nobody has an issue with that ?? How about a 7th round loss for $400 ? Sixth round semi for 275 or so? Again a correction is welcomed if this is not true !!! Like yourself sorry for the long post - just adding to the facts. Nobody is right or wrong in their opinions - they are exactly what they are and are designed to add insight. |
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Hi frank, i agree with you about laura losing her engine and not being able to compete because of the 7.49 rule. I think she would have given the "boys" a good run. I was there the last weekend of top dragster, track was "marginal" at best i would not let heather run her t/d.ended up "after " 2 time trials someone came to their senses and they went into 1st round running 1/8th mile. My radio or the lvd speakers must have missed my ears because i did not hear 8.25 would have qualified for top dragster i would have entered heathers little dragster hell it went 7.95 lol. I feel for you and laura. Looks like racing is done at lvd for the year ,its snowing here in poughkeepsie thrus. 10/15. Hope to see you next year. Ray stanton
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:mad:LOOKS LIKE THE PERSON THAT CREATED THE CLASS RUINED IT BEFORE IT EVEN STARTED NOW THERE A QUICK 32 CLASS NOW THE 690,S CARS WILL RACE 8,30 CARS LOL SHOULD HAVE DONE IT BY NHRA RULES THANKS WH
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