Division 1's Random Pairing Policy
 

I just read the "New" Random Pairing Policy from the Division 1 website. I thought this "New" policy was always in place, but I guess we needed the clarification.

Here is my suggestion. Have the "Super" classes qualify. Have a first round ladder. Reward the .900 guy/gal with a potential buy. This would eliminate the "mysterious" first round bye. I'm not sure 2 tracks reward the 1st round bye for the same reason anywhere in Div. 1. This would also make time shots/qualifications a lot more interesting. "Super" class racers could play the ladder game just like the Stock/Super Stock racers.

This would also allow for more potential sponsorship. Think of it this way. A potential sponsor who doesn't have the $1000 or greater to sponsor an event, could get their foot in the door by rewarding the 3 Super Class #1 Qualifiers with a $100 certificate. This benefits the racer, the sponsor and the NHRA.

A ladder could also save time. Here's an example. No more lost quarters, dimes, nickel's or penny's rolling under cars or under fences...the higher qualified car gets lane choice.

You could develop a year long points fund for most consistant qualifiers that may attract a Weather Station/ ET prediction type sponsor to give away product at the end of the year.

It would also make DRAW lots more money, racers would pay their $1 to see where they stood and who they may potentially have prior to 1st round.

The possiblilites are endless and it doesn't take much effort.

I can hear it now, someone will say it will take too long to pair for first round....NOPE. You call the left side of the ladder....than you call the right. If you snooze you loose.

Just some food for thought from a dumb cop. Let the jokes begin.

I was wondering why everyone was chasing me to the lanes at Island.
They were "Duck Hunting"....

Good job Bob Kolpack...LOL

I really never found pulling into the lanes that hard, pick a lane and get in it.

Random pairing in D1 is anything but. . Last year I raced the same racer 1st round at three consecutive races,and we weren't chasing each other. .... That prompted me to ask Dave Mohn why we could'nt pair cars the way they do it in D3. ... D3 allows you to pick left or right lane , but they fill 6 or 8 lanes up with the Official at the back of the lanes directing you to one or the other. ... A truely random pairing is made at the head of the lanes by pulling right and left lane's as determined by a draw. ..., I was told that this wasn't practical in D1. There is a definite need for change in the pairing methods, either the method D3 uses , or a true qualifying ladder. ... Maby Len can give us some input on why we can't have a better system. .... Tom

I think the way we do things is fine. I raced the same person several time second or third round last year, should I ask them to change the ladder?

Dont people think that Bob & Dave have other things to do other than look at who is hunting a duck or someone getting paired up with the same person for first round. Maybe you should wait a minute or 2 longer or go up earlier. And who is to say that when the person pulling the bingo chips and cards in the front of the lanes isnt going to "randomly" pull you to run the same person you are complaining about.


Debbie Moses

I have to disagree. the way we are paired has been broke for a long time. .... Years ago they used to mix the lanes up ... We do it the way we do now , because it's the easy way for the managment. .... Tom

sounds like a IHRA race to me! Johnny

Bryan
s/g & s/p 120
s/st & s/c 1219

I have not read Div 1 random pairing procedure but in Div 6 they have a pretty simple set up for 1st round of the 90 iclasses.. as you drive up to the lanes someone at the top of staging asigns you a lane 1-4 5 or 6 and it is all random 1st car gets lane 1 2nd, lane 2 and so one.. then at the head of staging..1 of the NHRA guys has 1 to 6 playing cards (again depends on how many lanes) and the racers are asked to pick a card and then another racer picks another card and these 2 lanes race each other.. the next 2 lanes are chosen the same way with the first lane chosen racing any car left over from the first pairing.. the "mysterious" bye is easier same cards are used...mix them up and chose a card that lane gats the bye ...mix the cards up again and the card chosen becomes the car that gets the possible bye.


Is it perfect maybe maybe not, but you do not get the buddy program where your lane is run until you get to the front and then another lane is run until wow look at than you have to race the guy chasing you for the division..I am not saying that has ever happened but I am sure some people out there have thought it has

The idea behind this policy is a result of what happened at the Maple Grove National Open a few short weeks ago. A Super Comp racer pulled into the waterbox and was patiently waiting for his first round opponent. Unfortunately, his opponent was unable to get his car started. At that point, the guy in the waterbox should have had a "bye run" and the guy who could not get his car to fire should have been out. However, the official called on the next car in line to pull out and race the guy in the waterbox. After getting his car to start, the other competitor (whose car wouldn't start) was then permitted to run the next guy in line. If you followed all that, you would see that a racer got Screwed out of a bye run and another racer was permitted to run after messing up the pairings. There are many times when I pull into the lanes for first round and dont like who I'm paired up with. But the bottom line is I don't pull out of line in order to avoid racing a "hitter". However, there are people out there who will do just that to get a duck and better their chances of making it to the next round. I am in favor of this new policy and I think it will help stop a certain Super Comp Racer/Transmission builder and his wife from playing games in the Staging lanes.

Sometimes at IHRA, they have an official at the front and he does the pairings all by himself. That sucks too.

Lets say you go to a race in Milan.
Lets then say you and your father (lets call this team Jason and Alan Kenny) have 2 super gassers.

Now we are in the middle of 2nd round. Jason is the next car in the left lane, Alan is the 5th car in the right lane. This IHRA official "randomly" pairs up the 1st and 2nd car in the right lane, followed by the 3rd and 4th car in the right lane, then "randomly" pairs up Jason and Alan.

Don't ever let the officials "randomly" pick the pairs, that won't make people any happier.

See you all at Atco.

I agree with Johnny, our time trials should be qualifying runs and the first round would be laddered. No more so called random pairings. Also, no matter when an opponent breaks, cant start, or has to go feed the cat you would get a single.

The only problem is the time it would take to pair us up. The sun will be coming up and they'll be calling sst to the lanes. lol

Gary Traeger
s/st 1797

If you drove into the lanes you are ready to race, if your lane moves and you are NOT ABLE to move you are done unless your paired partner allows you time to repair (not required). I have many times pulled next to friends, family, and heavy hitters, you have to WIN rounds to win a race and if you cant beat a friend, family or a heavy hitter, YOU DONT DESERVE TO WIN.

I just feel that a ladder first round is a waste of time because it isnt like Div1 can finish these races as is, nevermind adding more classes and more ladders.

Lets race if you win you win, we all go division racing for the fun anyway, racing is what we do between the fun and partys.

Flip Cup & Beer Pong 2007




Thanks,
Chris DePascale
S/C 1153....Addicted Racing
Jad153@aol.com

Here's what happened to us @ the MG Open. We were out past the line (and the fence for that matter) for first round, the person pulling the cars pointed to my son AND Ray Skipper. We went to the water, Ray's car didn't start we waited and the next thing you know they pulled the car behind Ray around (Jon Jon ) and we had to run him. I figured Ray's out!! Wrong!! Next thing you know Ray's car starts and here's now paired with Jacki Rogge!! WTF. I've known Dave for a hundred years or so - so later in the day I asked him "What's the policy because I obviously I don't have it right" He said "we pull the next car in line" I said "what about the car that doesn't start?" He told me whenever it start's we'll put him in line. We're here to run races, not singles" I said duck season is now open, I guess if I don't like my pairing next time my car just won't start either." and I left.

We won't be at Atco - we learned our lesson but it looks like we made our point.

Don Scholl
S&W Race Cars

I am new to the web site, maybe I should be sitting back for a while and just reading, but I have to say.....Lets just shut the hell up and race! I am sure there are "duck hunters" out there, so let them do their thing. For the most part, no one does this for a living. There are alot bigger things going on in the world then Div. 1 random pairings. Next time you want to complain about how we are paired, think of the guys that scraped every last dime and loaded up their family just to go racing, think about our soldiers fighting just so we can be doing this! Most of the people who play games dont win, and its much more fun beating someone that is playing games anyway! Just a thought!

H.A.A.C. Racing

Super Comp Kid -

I hope this is a joke:

I am in favor of this new policy and I think it will help stop a certain Super Comp Racer/Transmission builder and his wife from playing games in the Staging lanes.

Debbie Moses

AKA : Super Comp Race/Transmission builders wife

I have to agree with Tom here. I don't know who did what at Maple Grove that prompted this, but the "random pairing" in D1 has been a joke for a long time. I can't tell you how many times I've seen people park at the back of the lanes to wait for their "chosen" opponent. I can tell you that I would certainly give up lane choice to race a guy that I knew couldn't get better than an .050 light, or better, knew that he was running his car flat out and couldn't run the number because of the weather conditions.

A ladder is the BEST way to stop this, but it may not be the most practical because of the time it would take to implement. I've raced at both D1 and D3 races, and I have to say the D3 procedure is MUCH better than that used in D1. The only downside that I can see is that if you're 3 cars from the front, you had better be strapped in your car and ready to go, as it's entirely possible that you could be the 3rd pair pulled, even though there are still 80 cars in the lanes. As I'm sure all of you know, this isn't necessarily the most pleasant thing when it's 90 degrees outside.

But, I would gladly put up with this to know that I can pull into the lanes pretty much whenever I want, be almost assured that I would get the lane that I want, and feel comfortable in the fact that it's going to be a random pair. Now, is it possible that the official at the head of the lanes could be in cahoots with a racer to two and help them get a favorable random pair? Yes, it's possible. But, IMHO, the likelihood of that happening is extremely low compared to a driver duck hunting on his own.

The excuse that D1 can't use the D3 method is just crap. That's just an excuse not to change. And though there are bigger problems in the world, that doesn't mean that this shouldn't be fixed. If somebody's giving it to me in the *** and I don't like it, I'm most certainly not going to keep my mouth shut because there's bigger problems in the world like poverty, war, and world hunger.

Jason Oldfield
S/G & S/ST 1838

I get a kick out of you Jason.....Do you have a minimum word count.....

Just kidding....I still read them....

What ever they do in D3 seems to work pretty well....they line everybody up and they pick from all the lanes.....so you have no idea who you race...

and the bye is picked randomly from the chips that they pick lanes from.....that way there is no human error or favoritism involved...and if you can't pull out....you're done.....The D3 crew has done a really good job....
(especially Red).....

CBS
I guess I can be long winded....also

(I'm finally taking the silverware back out)

Jason,

If your getting it in the *** and you dont like it, just relax, dont get to stiff, I have been told that would make it better, and as far as keeping your mouth shut, be careful you might not like what goes in there either.

I'm not saying all should be ignored because of other world problems, all I am saying is that we are all doing something we love to do. I look at myself as "the duck" and if a "heavy hitter" is looking for me, I say bring it on! I might lose 4 out of 5 times, but that 1 win will feel pretty special knowing that the clown was looking for me to beat me up.

H.A.A.C. Racing

Rock,

No minimum word count, but I figure that I make myself look smarter by barraging all of you with as many words as possible. For some reason, when it comes to writing I've always found that quantity rather than quality always impressed my college professors and bosses the most...

...and no I'm not kidding, as sad as that may be...

Pete...Very nice rebuttal. I'll try to keep your advice in mind if I ever find myself in one of those precarious positions! [:-laughing-:]

As far as being duck and being hunted, I'm OK with that too. I like the fact that when I go to the races people have no idea who I am because I got a nice big surprise waiting for them! Now, is it the smartest thing in the world to do to say that I WANT to go out and run Haas, Erks, Richardson, Iggie, Connolly, and Sawyer every event? No, but I'll tell you what, if those are the guys I beat to take home the Wally, you can bet that I'll be damn proud of the job I did.

That said, I'm generally not one to be intimidated, and again, I feel like I have something to prove. But, when I see guys of the above-mentioned caliber (not the guys I mentioned as I've never seen any of those guys play those games), it annoys me because they're obviously trying to tip the scales in their favor (I also lose respect for them too, but that's another story). So, I say let's eliminate that possibility, and where we see we can make improvements, let's do so.

Oh, and by the way, congrats on your recent win!

Now that I've called out Rock, he's probably going to hunt me down the next event we're at to make me pay for my long-winded posts...

Jason Oldfield
S/G & S/ST 1838

I am most nervous 1st round for sure....really anybody can beat you in this class...I just assume not race the world champ in the first round (like I did last weekend) because you're going to lose some of those races....those guys win for a reason....they're pretty good at it....but they lose just like everybody else....against the top racers...you're going to win some and lose some....that's just the way it is.......`

I raced Iggy in the 1st round of the All Stars race and I was lucky and he felt sorry for me....and let me win.....and he was pitted next to me....

It was kind of interesting because I wasn't as nervous because I knew I was going to get a tough draw.....no matter who it was.....

So the ticket must be to plan on running the world champ and when you don't....you will have all kinds of confidence....and probably a round win.....

I know I'm in Jason territory...

I've raced mainly in Division 1, 2, and 3. Personally, when it comes to random pairings Division 3 seems to have the best system and it doesn't take long to do the pairings. Only problem,you need someone from the DIVISION to stand in front of the lanes and get it done!

Iggie

Agree with Rock.
Agree with Iggie.

This is the shortest post,
you'll ever see from me.

I'm a poet,
and I don't even know it.

Jason Oldfield
S/G & S/ST 1838

That was short for you......

So you guys need to go to the division director and get this done...

Believe it or not our division director actually calls once in a while and runs things by us...and Erks ....and some of the other guys....

In the past, during a race, when a decision had to be made, sometimes he would ask the class champions their opinion....

CBS...

I'm done

I've been a witness to some of those "meetings".....nuff said!

Ask our opinion, they tell us our opinion.

Gary


Rock , minimum word count , awesome, I always wanted to say that...lol

Shortest Post!

Thanks,
Chris DePascale
S/C 1153....Addicted Racing
Jad153@aol.com

Ditto


H.A.A.C. Racing

Ditto


H.A.A.C. Racing

Doug
I dont think you should be calling people out like that, you can piss them off like you see in Debbie's post.



LET THE TRUTH BE TOLD

Its easy fill four lanes and dont run lanes 1 and 2 go with 1 and 4 then 2 and 3 this week and next week switch it or fill 6 lanes and do it .

Fill all the lanes....pull chips with the lane numbers....pretty simple....in Division 3 you even get your lane....lane 1 is left.... lane 2 is right...so its better to go up... so you don't get stuck in the back and maybe the car count in that lane is short so you might not get the lane you want....it works out pretty good....

CBS

I can't believe that Bob Lang hasn't seen this system used...he MUST be aware of it. I don't know why he would have said that Division 1 couldn't use this method, unless he's thinking that some of the tracks we race on don't have as many staging lanes. All the ones that I can remember though, Englishtown, Maple Grove, Cecil County, and Lebanon Valley (for the life of me I can't remember what the staging lanes at Atco look like, and I've never been to Virginia) there are plenty of staging lanes to pull this off. I would have to assume that Virginia does too since it's a relatively new track, and they hold a national event there.

If there are enough people interested in this, the best thing would probably be to get a bunch of racers together at a division race to voice our opinion. It's either that or we each individually call Bob.

Anyway, I'm all for the change. I don't know if this requires a poll or not to see if the majority of racers really support this, but if we don't tell Bob (as a group) he'll never know (and if it's just one or two guys that called him, he'll think it's just a couple of guys bitching).

Back to my old self...

Jason Oldfield
S/G & S/ST 1838

Bob is already in outerspace.

asta

Jason do you even race? Have not seen your car at any of the last couple races? You have an opinion on EVERYTHING but don't race? (whats up with that)

LET THE TRUTH BE TOLD

WOW this will be a long one .

asta

I hope they have enough memory on their server.....

Don't take it personally Jason....

we that do get to the track are very lucky....

cbs

Hmmm....Where should I start...

Long story short (or as short as possible, as I don't want to put poor Mr. Asta & Mr. Haas to sleep, as I'm sure they have more things they'd like to accomplish before day's end), I'm waiting on my engine builder. Originally, I was supposed to have the motor back at the end of April or beginning of May. He wasn't ready with it then, and neither was I, so being the nice guy that I am I told him that a few more weeks wouldn't be any big deal. Well, that was probably the wrong thing to say, but live and learn.

In the end though, it's no big deal. The delay will just give me more time to get other things done on the car that haven't been done in a long time (I'm in the process of re-wiring the car at the moment, and I'm going to take it to the chassis shop for a few minor updates as well).

Even then, when I am done NED "Racer" (I don't know your name so how would I actually know if you're a racer), you may not see me at many LODRS events. They're just too expensive to go to, the payout sucks, and because I primarily run S/St the grade points that I get from going to them don't do me much good (with my grade point of 2 from last year, I could have gone to Chicago if I had wanted, but I would have needed at least a 4 to get into Englishtown, and in the foreseeable future I'm not going to Houston, Atlanta, Phoenix, Denver, or Seattle).

So, why WOULD I go to a LODRS event? To race with my buddies, or to get me another mini-Wally, and that's about it. Otherwise, I'm going to be spending my hard earned money primarily at IHRA national events, which are probably more convenient for me to get to (living in WNY sucks from a racing perspective), and have better payouts as well (though admittedly their trophy isn't as pretty).

And to reply to anyone's request in advance, no I will NOT call my motor guy out on the Internet. Unlike some people on here, I value my personal relationships, and I use my real name when I post my opinion on the Internet.

OK, so that wasn't exactly short, but I had to get digs in there about Mr. NED "Racer" not using his real name...Oh, and one more thing Mr. NED "Racer", didn't anyone ever tell you that opinions are like assholes? And I are one...

Jason Oldfield
S/G & S/ST 1838

Asta , your too funny[:-laughing-:]

s/g 1620

Well at least you are honest!

Anyway I did happen to see some of that "Certain Transmission Builder and his wife playing "GAMES" in the staging lanes at Atco this past weekend!

We should really put a stop to this and I have proof that those scoundrels were really up to some fishing.

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i3...r/IMG_0450.jpg
http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i3...r/IMG_0449.jpg
http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i3...r/IMG_0448.jpg

I believe it was "GO FISH"



LET THE TRUTH BE TOLD

I have to say that's a first for me...No, not being called honest...Seeing two people playing cards in the staging lanes in the middle of the night. Weren't there any tables available at somebody's motorhome?

That just seems like an odd place to sit down to play a couple of hands of cards...

Jason Oldfield
S/G & S/ST 1838