IHRA tournament of Champions
 

I just wanted to get some opinions on what people think should happen. I was one of the qualifiers that witnessed this disasterous week/weekend. I can't say that IHRA was necessarily fully to blame, but I have definitely been to colder/wetter/more windy events and it didn't go this badly.

Re: IHRA tournament of Champions
 

IHRA is completley to blame for that weekend! I've never seen such an unorganized mess in all the years I've been racing. For one they had too many races to run, when they had a window to run some cars nothing was going down the track. The only good decision they made was to go 1/8 mile. The sportsman national should have been cancelled as soon as there was a threat of rain, wich they new was coming on Thursday. How many guys do you think traveled from all over the country to run that race? None, they were all locals or from a couple hundred miles away. I was qualified for the TOC I drove 1200 miles one way from Minnesota just to make time runs! You would think by October everybody who is at that race has there stuff together, that making the switch to 1/8 mile would be no big deal. When they gave extra time trials on Saturday, Sunday, and Monday I was ready to burn the tower down. Who makes such asinine decisions! Every dicision they made from race control sabotaged the weekend. They just kept putting themselves further and further behind. Yes we had weather to deal with, but there is no excuse for not getting that race done. Thank god the ran that jet truck and those hack fuel cars, so they could oil up the track and screw up the timing system for the 200 fans in the stands. I'm angry, I looked forward to this race for months. It was probably a once in a lifetime trip for me, but I'm sure the brain power at IHRA will reschedule it in Florida. So the guys who can travel can go, and us guys from Minnesota, Canada, Texas can all sit and spin. I can't go back, I burned up my vacation and my money do go once not twice. Split up the money to the qualifiers, what difference does it make to have a world champion in an organizaton, that if they keep making the decisions they are making won't be around much longer.:mad::mad::mad:

Re: IHRA tournament of Champions
 

That's my boy Schultz for you! I'll bet anybody right now that his ears turned bright red when he typed that.

Lehrke

Re: IHRA tournament of Champions
 

I knew some people would be very upset the way things went down. I traveled from OKC, OK and had the rock slide on I-40 add an extra 2 hours or so to the trip on the way back, used up my leave, money, etc. So, I am pretty mad as well. I really hope they figure out a resonable solution...this put too much on one weekend...like you said they shouldn't have had the sportsnationals at all.

They either need to just figure out top ten finishers based off of the year or if they reschedule it really needs to be in texas, michigan, louisiana...cause to be fair a reschedule can't be on the east coast.

not trying to stir anything up, but I am curious on what people's opinions are...especially the qualifiers.

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My ears will be red for a long time after that mess. This might be beating a dead horse. I know this is hind sight, but out of the winners that got there race done, and the finalists left in competion. Only 2 racers would have qualified for the TOC. So we sat there for 5 days to get 2 more cars in. Don't get me wrong I'm not bashing the guys who will get in (there final has not been run yet) I'm just asking was it worth it?:eek:

Re: IHRA tournament of Champions
 

To give IHRA a chance both scotter and arron need to do the right thing. Fall on their swords and go work for monster truck dept. Scotter if your reading this you know im right and Im sure your already looking for a pink slip every payday so do the right thing and quit. Many people on this site keep sticking up for these guys and their desisions and its cost us all in unorganized disasters at many events over the past few years.

Not afraid of posting
Brian Mac Millan
Mac Millan & Wife Racing Super Gas Super Rod

Re: IHRA tournament of Champions
 

I sent an email, made the suggestion to cut up what was left in the allstars. Draw a number for the goldcar, which why do you need another gold card, didn't everyone who was in the allstar race already win a gold card for winning their division or the spring allstar race? As for the TOC I said they should use the old best of 5 divisional and 3 nationals points system and figure who would have been champ. Take 1500 outta the pot, give 1000 to the champ, 500 to second and then equal shares to everyone who attended the race. i.e. everyone gets their $623(guesstimate) and the champ gets an extra grand, goldcar and trophy, second gets 500 more. Thats just my 2 cents.. let 2009 be done and get ready for 2010 for those that will still be able to afford to race in oh 10..

Re: IHRA tournament of Champions
 

what a joke! i feel sorry for anyone that traveled more than 20 miles to go to this race, they did not need the sportsnationals at all, it was for them to make money. my thought is to split the money ONLY to the ones that bothered to show up. pick a winner out of a hat, again only to the racers that were there. the world championship this year is a joke anyway.
mac and wife, miss seing u guys at the races, god knows they needed more than 3 s/r cars at new york! i guess you spoke your mind and got a nasty e- mail. this happens a lot.
shultz. good seeing u again, and yes, his ears were beet red!
they only good thing i can say is i enjoyed seeing all my freinds, and playing "cornhole" with the "rebels" chris, ej, and rickey. and watching greg fowler come .006 from makeing the toc.

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I normally don't post, but I feel this is important. I have contacted Skooter and gave my opinion. I agree with Michael on how to determine the championship. There is not going to be any great way to decide this but if they tell us to come back it will be a disaster.

They tried to level the playing field for the sporsman racer with the TOC. Well it didn't work this year.

Alot of the sportsman racers can not come back at all. If they reschedule it and you don't come back you will get nothing. If they split it up you will at least get part of your tow money back. Figure it out the best they can and move on to next year and hopefully they will learn from their mistakes.

I am probably one of the racers that would come back if they rescheduled it. I actually think I would be dumb for going back but hey..... I love racing.... With that being said... If I was to win it. It wouldnt be a true championship. So what is the point of trying.

The weather was not the problem at this race. The problem was the poor scheduling and the main problem was track prep. I don't know how to fix the track prep problem, but what they were doing did not work. They knew they had a problem the week before at the bracket finals and did nothing to fix the problem. That is the main issue I see.

I think they need to let all of the TOC qualifiers vote on several options or they need to form a commitee of racers to help make the best decision in the interest of the sportman racers.

We need IHRA to survive. I am not happy with what just happened but screaming at them will not help..... Lets help them make the best decision possible.

Joe Bauman
573X

Re: IHRA tournament of Champions
 

Tim, good seeing you and the guys from OK in Rockingham. I too am disappointed we could not finish 'the race that never ended" as I would have liked to compete for the championship rather than some other altnernative method. Everyone I talked too was frustrated about the delays and almost to the person feels too much was scheduled for one weekend. As my old boss would say, "this too shall pass".

Any method for selecting the top ten will not suit everyone and maybe not anyone as it will not reflect the rules set forth in the beginning. Whatever the decision, I will try to support IHRA as we need an alternative racing organization. Hopefully everyone involved learned something from this weekend (week).

I met a lot of good racers that I have read about over the years and for that am thankful.

Got home today, lost a week of work, spent $900 on fuel and traveling, and $908 to get the truck repaired in Charlotte.

Sid Norwood
H/R 4707

Re: IHRA tournament of Champions
 

Michael good idea.
I would love to meet somewhere to run this off, but we need to put it behind us.
What if they split the money between those who were there. Then we show up The Thursday before the first rest of 2010 and race for the Gold Card and the #1. I know everyone could'nt make it back but at least we could shut the door on it.

One more thing I get tired of everyone refering to this years champion not being a real champion or a deserving one. The way I look at it. Theses are the rules and if you can beat the top 30 racers "SHOOTOUT STYLE" Then I think you've earned it.
Chip Johnson

Re: IHRA tournament of Champions
 

Sid, I hate to hear you had truck problems on the way home on top of what we all put up with at the track. I really don't know what the decision should be on how to solve this, but I believe someone brought up the idea of laying out a few options and the TOC qualifiers voting on it...at least it would be a majority decision then.

I, as many others, thought the TOC race was a good idea (finally, you didn't get placed lower in points on a season where you never even raced the guys ahead of you in points), however in the future I believe that the backup needs to be the old points system. If they can't get the TOC race off, then they needed to have posted the world championship points throughout the entire year as a backup and use it under these circumstances.

2 things that shouldn't happen out of this though are: 1) the people who didn't show up really should not get anything out of the deal (not another chance to go to a reschedule nor divided up money if that happens and if they decide somehow points-wise then the people that did show up should get some bonus points at least). My resoning behind that one is that the TOC should have been decided last weekend and the people who didn't show obviously gave up their chance. 2) again a reschedule absolutely cannot go back to rockingham (to be fair it really can't be on the east coast at all)

Sorry, just noticed that I said alot of the same things that Michael said...so I guess I concur.

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Maybe they should break this up in regions and let all that are closest to each region run their deal til they get a winner in that region and do so in all regions . this would be kinda like the summit super series format. when this is done and a winner is established then let those winners go to the most central location for the final finals. this would help on all ot the toc qualifiers at least a less expensive alternative , except for the ones that end up in the final finals. Just a thought. Also do not include the ones that did not show up at rockingham.Less travel and less expense for all involved.

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Tim,
Why are you so adamant about not coming back to the east cost. Do the math. I'll be willing to bet less than 10% there were west of the Mississippi, and 80% were div 1,2,and 9 cars.
Chip

Re: IHRA tournament of Champions
 

i agree with Danny, i thought of the same thing you run all the cars within the div and surronding that are close at one track have a winner then pick a natl that everyone could make it too and then you would have a smaller shootout maybe 2 or 3 rounds and its over with.

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Based on the fact that they used reaction times in S/SS for qualifying ladder would it be reasonable to assume they would use this type of info to determine the results? I really didn't understand using that method for the S/SS why not just use the most under index? Oh I forgot in IHRA performance no longer matters.Joe

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Thanks for making my point so clear Chip. Thats why the TOC isn't any fairer than any of the other ways to win a championship. It obviously favors the racers that live closest to the track that they hold it at. Which also makes it more lucrative for someone who only had to drive 100 miles to the race as opposed to those who may have drove close to a thousand. The extra days of travel are also lost wages days so basically it costs someone from say Texas nearly $2000 dollars to be able to travel to NC to race for a possible $10000, whereas someone from NC it may only cost $100. The IHRA has done a great job of spreading national events around with the additional sportsnationals at all the various tracks. It would have been quite fair using the old points system for almost anyone to challenge for the world championship this year. The TOC only drove up the costs, brutally to those who would have finished 3rd thru 10th in national points under the old system. I was always taught that loyalty was rewarded in the end, but the TOC sticks it to the loyal racers. Sorry theres only 40 of them supposedly, I think theres more than 40.. The car counts are down because of the economy and the rising costs of racing vs the dramatically reduced prize moneys available. I doubt there is any one thing that will fix this, it will either comeback in some time or we are nearing the end. I don't completely fault anyone for trying though. And I do think they had to have some kind of a paying customer race at Rockingham, they probably should have had a lil different schedule for it. Course hindsite is always 20/20 ain't it?

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Alex and I had 900 miles to discuss this on the way home and talk about "what could have been." I'm sure he will add his ideas later, but for now I want to comment on people who say those who were in the TOC shouldn't have been in the Sportsnationals or was only in it for the dough.

We have never been to Rockingham. We wanted to get a couple of extra hits on the track so we left early enough to enter. I would assume so did most of TOC competitors. And the money Alex won helped offset the travel expenses. Sorry for those in the SS All Stars who didn't get to start their race due to Alex still in the SN.

IHRA had a good idea there were a LOT of cars entered in the SN by Wed. night. They could have easily announced to everyone at the track Wed. night that the SN would start at 9am instead of noon. Give everyone a run card for two runs, those who showed up for a 12 pm start and only got one run would get a clean up. But they didn't do that. They didn't even start the SN until after 1:30 - we started an hour and a half late for what? Track prep. That should have been done on Wed. We should have been ready to run at 8 am Thursday. Mismanagement. More later . . . .

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Michael,
Great idea. It makes sense, but I'm pretty sure what makes money for Field is being discussed rather than what makes sense for the racers. I thought the TOC was a good idea. I like the format. I had even considered going to Rockingham and racing the Sports Nationals race. I had 3 customers in the TOC and quite a few friends that were going to be there. I figured it would be a big party and good time. If Mike Baker had done away with the 1.40 under hit, as I ask, when attempting a record it would have been even more tempting to go. Issues with $$ and my Dad's health kept me away. It seems by all the posts that it was a real money pit and miserable time for most racers. (party never got started??)Glad I stayed home. Going 1100 miles one way is tough on the pocketbook at today's prices. I hope it works out for the best and they decide to try it one more year. To my friends and customers that won their way in I say: Good Work and Congratulations. Hope you make it in next year.

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Michael,
I see your point about travel. I live 50 miles away. Answer this where would a suitable central location be.
Bottom line 80% of the racers live less than 300 miles from the Rock and I'll bet 60% are less than 200 miles away.
Steve Earwood said it best several years ago "Nobody wins on a rainout".
Chip

Re: IHRA tournament of Champions
 

Michael and Danny, We had a runoff in each of our areas. It was called the Pro Am Tour. All the competitors from our division, including the national event winners, participated. I am not shooting down your ideas as I do not have one any better. Hopefully a race can be scheduled to finish the TOC and Allstar races. Sid Norwood

Re: IHRA tournament of Champions
 

I agree with Michaels suggestion. I believe that IHRA has to put this race to bed (or out of its misery, however you want to put it).

I have absolutely no intention of driving the 1200 miles plus again for a rerun of this race, but due to the fact that my home track is no longer IHRA I have probably attended my last IHRA race for the forseeable future anyway.

I understand the desire of many of the competitors to decide the championship on the track at a later date and have no problem if that is the final decision, but my vote is for some kind of a split of the purse.

Mike Cotten

Re: IHRA tournament of Champions
 

i agree with chip here i believe this should be settled on the track the way it was set up to be in the first place. the whole idea of this set up was to help keep the cost of racing down during these times and going off the years total points wouldnt be fair to everyone who showed up. i traveled 1500 miles round trip and would be more than happy to do it again to race this race. Biggest thing i think is that it needs to be on its own weekend not like this past weekend 10 lbs of crap in a 5lbs bag

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My personal opinion: If it were any other national event or even a Pro-Am event, it would be rescheduled. I don't see why this should be any different. According to this year's rules, I qualified for an opportunity to race for $10K/Ironman/gold card -- not a split purse. I may very well lose 1st round and get nothing, but that should be determined on the race track. Earn what you get, and get what you earn.

If you have regional runoffs, then you're forcing people to travel TWO more times, and the ladder is modified. It should be a 5-6 round race, tops. I've traveled 1,300 miles to San Antonio (and oh, BTW, that's when gas was expensive, and it cost me $658 for the 2,600 mile round trip. You don't "HAVE" to have a toter/stacker... that's an individual's choice), 1,107 to Tulsa, and had to travel to Toronto twice one year because of a rainout, and had to travel a second time to rained out Pro-Ams before, too. Yes, it sucks, but that's the hand we were dealt. I believe the majority of people drove fewer miles chasing points this year. If someone feels one more long trip isn't worth a free-entry $10K race, then that's an individual's decision. If they rescheduled the race for Dallas Raceway, I would get in the truck and drive to Texas. I would typically tow 15K miles a year chasing points. This year, I won the first National I attended, and didn't go to any more. I still went to 10 Pro-Ams and 2 Sportsnationals, because they were decent investments and fit into my schedule. But all told, my towing mileage was WAY down this year. Tell me what the rules are, when and where we are racing, and I will be there.

Reschedule the race, and run it like it was originally scheduled to be run. We haven't even run an official Qualifying pass for the ToC yet, so it should be considered an "open field" for all those that have qualified, regardless of whether they made the first trip to Rockingham or not.

My personal opinion only,

PS - great to see all the folks we too rarely get a chance to see -- the Cotten family, Kevin & Scott Helms, Chris Gulitti, Alex & Beth, the Boltons, Bob Murray & crew, and many, many others. And big thanks to all who helped so much this weekend!

PPS - Adger, can't set records at Nationals/Sportsnationals... Love ya buddy, but if you go -1.40, you need hit. :p

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Chip, I just figure it might be a little more fair if a reschedule got moved a little more west (if there was a vote then nearly everyone would vote for the track that is closest to them, so you are right if the majority of the racers are near the east coast, which they are, then we will be right back at or near rockingham).

Anyhow, if there is a national event that I can pick up at the rescheduled TOC race then I'll porbably go pretty much wherever it ends up at seeing as though I will have all winter to regain some leave and I'll be more hungry to race again by then. So, I guess I agree with Michael...reschedule and I am probably there.


P.S.Chip, I noticed you got beat in the sportsnationals on an exact same double breakout as the other guy...same thing happened to me against Norwood at State Capitol...I just stared at the slip for about a half hour wondering how the "first or worst" rule worked on that deal. (I got there second on a double breakout...I thought that was what you are supposed to do...someone should have told me "oh and don't breakout by the same amount as the other guy") oh well...tough racin's...fun racin'.

P.S. Tom Coonly, good race first round we had...I had a little trouble with my car on that lap but you laying down a nice run. As it turned out I probably could have bombed the motor and still had enough time to replace it before my next lap.

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If you re run it many will not return and the winners will be the world champion by default. So at this point you will not be able to settle this on the racetrack. I for one cannot comeback unless I wanna lose my job.

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The longer they wait to make a decision, the wosre it will get and that's the same thing they did at Rockingham. The dopes in the tower are the same ones that will make the call on this.:confused:

Craig Schultz
H/R 5909

Re: IHRA tournament of Champions
 

The same would be true under the original points system if you needed to go rounds to make up points at your 6th National Event claim. No different. If the event is rescheduled, and you don't go back, you don't have a shot. If you go back, you have a shot. Not everyone's going to be able to do it.

Re: IHRA tournament of Champions
 

no not the same. No matter who showed up I had a bye run first round. And de[pending on what light I cut, could have another 2nd round and depending on the ladder possibly a third bye later on so a 6th round would be looking pretty good..

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maybe its just me but i really dont see this race getting re run until next year unless they plan on going out west and all pretty much screwed! by then we will all have more time off of work and be able to go race this the way it is supposed to be. thats how i see it but well see how ihra sees it

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First of all this is nothing against anyone who qualified for the toc,me i just dont care for the format, a person has his or her day in that race and their world champ . Those of us who have run ihra and chased points in the past have always delt with weather ,every race ihra runs when problems occur they do something diffrent each time.i stopped nhra racing 6 years ago till this year ,i went to columbus for the sports nats ,weather was bad still had fun and we raced ,time trials each day at an ihra race is a waste of time .if they trimmed down the number of claims in the old system that would save us all money too.again just my opinon. H/r 399 s/r 399 jj.

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Boy oh boy, ain't this a pickle! It's good to see you guys discussing solutions, keep'em coming!
It's no doubt this was an absolute worst case scenario, but
a. the reason there was a sportsnational was because of the TOC, not the other way around, the TOC had priority that weekend. (note to IHRA)
b. Time runs are overrated, the TOC racers are there mainly because these are the guys who don't need time runs. 1 is all you need and if weather is a threat that's it race'em. (note to IHRA 2)
Possible solutions?
a. Split pay out by '09 points earned + tow money like the Jegs allstars,
free invite to the 2010 TOC to those who qualified in 2009.
b. Roll over championship purse and double the $$ winnings for the 2010 TOC. Once again free invite to the 09 qualifiers. Next year run the sportsnational race the week before the TOC race (or ax it) and the TOC race will be the 09 and 2010 qualifiers for 20 K + deeper prize package for r-ups.

Craig Schultz is a good example of the benefits of the new format, in '05 he chased Div 5 points in NHRA and logged 4194 miles round trip for
a possible 2 K division championship prize. This year he travels to Byron, wins a richer pot in the sportsnational, and races at the Rock for a shot at a national championship and 10K. Total miles for those 2 races for Craig, 2900.
In this respect you can see (at least I can see) the new format working.

Over the last couple years I have sketched up plans for a mobile tarp system similar to that used on baseball fields for a dragstrip. Now Mr Feld should have good connections with tarps and tent material, it is time to invest in a system to help keep the track from getting soaked (or just wet) in rain events. If you could imagine all of the time and labor saved, jet fuel saved, increased racer and fan satisfaction, reducing the chances of weepers, I could go on and on. It would pay for itself in no time.....
a bit long sorry but if they want to run a show in a tight window I feel this would help accomplish that.
Just my crazy thoughts
Thanks,

-steve

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I like the thoughts of doubling the purse and having the 09 and 10 TOC qualifiers run together but I also believe it will drop the car count because you already have 32 cars qualified. I have a feeling they are going to reschedule it to Florida in Feb for the 1st National event, which is bs I went all the way to Rockingham NC from Syracuse NY in Oct, closed my business for a week took my 5 year old child out of school and spent my hard earned money to go and stay there for a week and come home with nothing. Is it fair to the up north racers who may not even be able to get there trailers out of the snow and possibly have to race guys who have been already racing for months. I also agree the sportsnationals sgould have never happen :mad:

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free entry 10k to win, im sold put the race where ever ill be back, im out of vacation days at work took my last 3 for the braket finals and 2 days for the world finals, but i would beg and plead with my bosses to let me go....i made the moser shootout for the 2010 season ill be at Martin for my free entry for 22.5k if i lose first rd wouldnt be the first time...did last year at Milan which was 15 hours to get there for nothing...3 blown trailer tires an all night ride home and no money earned and back to work at 730 the next day...i understand what Michael is saying bout the travel but we all do it because we love racing and i for sure want it to be here for a very long time....the deal at the Rock sucked for all of us even if it was only a 45 minute ride from the house....im still moping around because i wanted to do the TOC race more than anything.........summit super sereies,bracket world finals all are a 1 race deal with a world champ at the end of the day...if i came out a TOC winner i would say hey i went to 10 pro ams 3 sports natls and 3 reg. natls this year heck yeah i deserve it i may not have won every race i attended but damn if i didn't try to......

on the lighter side of the race there were deff. too many races trying to be ran including the sports natl...but i brought my stocker and i sure was one of the dummies that wanted to run it because guess what i wanted my "last chance" to make the TOC in stock...if any of the you that had 2 cars or and opp. to drive another that weekend and make the TOC im sure you would have been glad they had that race(even though they never finished all of it...lol)

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I really feel for everyone involved. Seems there is no right answer regarding how to finish the TOC. Quite the pickle!! This will always be a definate possability when you put all your eggs in one basket, which is the 1 reason I dislike the TOC format, and think IHRA needs to go back to the drawing board. I hope for the best for everyone invloved.

Re: IHRA tournament of Champions
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Oldfield
And supporting the new system 100% means just that - supporting it ONE HUNDRED PERCENT! If you are saying that the system needs some tweaking, then that means you're not behind it 100%. You may still generally like the new format, maybe 80% or 90%, but not 100%. 100% implies no changes are necessary.




I suppose I may have been a little vague with my statement. I do not agree 100% with the format (about 95%), but I will support it 100%. So I guess that makes it like 97.75691% is that better? By the way Jason, the top 3 in each division make it to Rockingham, not 2.
__________________
Damien Hazelton
Lucky Dog Racing
2007 IHRA Hot Rod World Champion

Re: IHRA tournament of Champions
 

Clearly no one answer will ever suffice for you all. No matter what decision was made then,or will be made now will go without controversy. When we race we take chances, when promoters put races together, they gamble. If we all pi$$ and moan enough, no one will organize races. Then, we will have plenty of time to be back seat drivers.

I also believe the powers that be made a ton of crap decisions. Maybe some should step aside. But at least us racers should come to terms with the fact that any decision hurts/angers someone. I'll bet I could pick any 10 racers, and could not get you to agree on a cup of coffee. Human Nature, please guys, dont kill another sanctioning body. If you race, be productive. Write to IHRA and be candid, If you think Scooter should go, write IHRA and tell them that. If you have the Ideal way to resolve this pickel, write to IHRA.

Everyone knows driving from Minnesota to Richmond for not sucks, nothing new or productive. Not a racer on this site with a heart thinks that dont stink. But it is what it is, Try to give good ideas and a positive momentum to this.

Old people will stand in line to Bitch. We'll all be old soon enough.

Re: IHRA tournament of Champions
 

huh? I don't get it Pug?

Re: IHRA tournament of Champions
 

Here's a BRILLIANT idea.......

Why not give the racers points for each round they won @ a predetermined amount of regional & national races, see who has the most points and determine a champ for each class based on his accomplishments for the SEASON & call him/her the WORLD Champ?!

I can't believe NO one has ever thought of this?! BRILLIANT!

Re: IHRA tournament of Champions
 

That's what we used to do. That, however, is not the rules that were set before us for the 2009 season. I won the first National event I went to, and because of that I didn't chase any more. Regardless of what we think of rules, one way or the other, they should be followed.

If they want to do that for 2010, that's fine. "Tell me what the rules of the playground are, and I'll go play on it."