Div 2 Pts Meet @ South Ga.
 

I don't know if there is anything we as racers can say or do, but we need to get behind Rowland Wood and the SGMP and try to get NHRA to work with him and give us our Divisional race there in 2010. It is one of the nicest tracks in the country for a Divisional race, its clean, paved and run by some really nice folks. They make the sportsman racers feel like pro's, so NHRA, we need this track for a Div 2 points race.;)

Re: Div 2 Pts Meet @ South Ga.
 

X-2. Woodro is correct on this one. Give SGMP all the support we can.

Tom Ward
Division Director SSSSA

Re: Div 2 Pts Meet @ South Ga.
 

I agree. Let me know what I can do.

Re: Div 2 Pts Meet @ South Ga.
 

Maybe I'm wrong but I'm told it's an Alcohol Class problem. None of the tracks want them because they take one third the purse, incur a disproportionate amount of the expenses (they all blow up), pay nothing to get in and bring in very few spectators. If this is in fact the case, once again everyone else loses because of NHRA's addiction to the "Mechanical Rain Delay" cars.

If this is true, then this Eliminator needs to financially stand on its own and not be underwritten by Stockers, Super Stockers the rest of the Sportsman Racers and the track operators, period. If everyone wants to see them then give them a percentage of the gate just like any other Circus Act.

It would be funny if it wasn't so sad but NHRA actually believes that their best customers are the spectators that go to one or two races a year and not the Sportsman racers who pay entry after entry all year long while getting less and less value along the way. Has anyone noticed how many time runs we now receive?

These people are brain dead and have no clue on how to run a successful, profitable business that builds value for its best customers. Think about it, the only other industry that treats its best customers the worst are the airlines and they have all gone bankrupt.

Craig Couris, 404-274-1003

Re: Div 2 Pts Meet @ South Ga.
 

It would help to know what the problem is. Is it the case that the track owner wants a Divisional race and the NHRA doesn't? Or is the the other way around?

I, for one, know squat about the business side of the tracks, but I have read on this and other forums that most tracks don't make any money on Divisional events, mainly since there aren't many (i.e., none) spectators. So I could see where the track might not want to hold a Div race and lose money, especially if there is some other event that they could hold and turn a profit by getting more butts in the seats.

However, if it is the case where our division director doesn't want to hold a race at a particular track then that is a major problem. It is inexcuseable to not hold an event at a centrally located, top notch facility that wants to have the race, especially when there are no divisional races from early March until mid-September.

If this is the case, then as NHRA "members", we should be pounding the division and national offices with firm but polite requests for a sixth race.

Re: Div 2 Pts Meet @ South Ga.
 

I totally agree WJ. this track is top notch.


Stephen Johnson #2162
Horace Johnson #2167
SS/D 427 Ford Fairlane NHRA-IHRA

Re: Div 2 Pts Meet @ South Ga.
 

I totally agree we need our Division race at SGMP!!!!!!!!!

Re: Div 2 Pts Meet @ South Ga.
 

Maybe, NHRA wants the racer to travel longer distances to get their points and that it would be too convient for the racer, thinking like NHRA, to have a race at a central location such as SGMP.
Casey Miles
248H

Re: Div 2 Pts Meet @ South Ga.
 

Why don't someone find out the real deal? I think the Alcohol cars are optional to the track owner, but I have been wrong before. Also correct me, but if I run my first three races in Div 2, then I'm in Div 2 I think. Hi Woody.

Re: Div 2 Pts Meet @ South Ga.
 

Over the last few years we had a D1 race at Atco without Alcohol cars. It counted as an out-of-division race, but I believe that was because it was the seventh race. I believe you can claim any division you want as long as you run three races in that division. it doesn't matter which three.

Evan

Re: Div 2 Pts Meet @ South Ga.
 

Posted on another forum by SGMP
"Ok guys I was going to keep my mouth shut but those of you that know me will understand thats hard for me to do.Here is the story it takes 330 cars to make payout. Having said that our car count was around 330 but of that only 301 were paid entries. Alochol has a payout of approx. $15000.00 but we do not collect any entry from them since the majority of them having gold silver or bronze cards so we eat that.Cost of an NHRA race is less just say twice or more of what Ronnie has said. They also get more on top of that for anything over 300 cars. We have made several attempts to work out some type of compromise with differant dates and other options but with little success.So please understand when I tell you it is not because we would not love to host the Divisional event at our faciltiy from a fincinal stand point it just does not work and this is not only the view point of our track but serveral others."

"Well thats pretty close but belive me when I tell you I would still like to do one just would like to get a little better date than we have now.We think that it is to much to ask the divsion racers todo that much that soon in the year and it hurts the racers and the tracks."



I find it humorous that five guys that don't care and have nothing to loose, lead this sport around by a nose ring and no one does anything about it.

Re: Div 2 Pts Meet @ South Ga.
 

I agree completely Woodro. SGMP is a great facility and the folks running the track have been very friendly and helpful. I was very disappointed to see SGMP off the 2010 Div 2 LODRS schedule and hope that can be changed.

Mark Berg
I/S 2665

Re: Div 2 Pts Meet @ South Ga.
 

Track operators need to look at the Baders and see how they promote their points meet. They advertise the race as a sportsman spectacular, they have a night of fire, wheelstanders,and jet cars ,the people like that crap. and they fill the stands with this. Other tracks should look at this type of promotion.

Hammer

Re: Div 2 Pts Meet @ South Ga.
 

The class racers HATE that crap (wheelstanders, jet cars, circus acts) so less class racers will show up. Jet cars spray kerosine all over the lanes which makes for interesting runs for the lowly sportsman racers. Its a SPORTSMAN race....not a show for "Joe Lunch box" and his rug rats. Run those circus acts at some vinues other than where the class cars trying to hook up on 9 inch tires. They always run stock and/or Super Stock AFTER the jet cars when they should run Top Fuel and Funny Ha Ha cars after them instead. Might as well go to an NHRA or IHRA National event instead where the track really SUCKS.

Re: Div 2 Pts Meet @ South Ga.
 

Terry

Like i said its crap,but thats what puts people in the seats. Run the funny cars and dragsters after them. I hate the pony show just as bad as the next guy but people like it.

Hammer

Re: Div 2 Pts Meet @ South Ga.
 

You do not need a circus to draw a crowd. You need proper promotion, decent prices, and a well run race.

You cannot draw a crowd with no promotion, and certainly not if you're going to charge $20 a head to get in, $3 for a cup full of ice with 6 oz. of Coke, and $5 for a dried out hockey puck on a stale bun.

Fans will not sit in the stands and look at an empty track with a floor scrubbing machine, either, especially not at $20 a head.

You can't buy in a circus act or a dog and pony show and get $20 a head, either. You can't draw enough of a crowd to pay for it, so it just costs you more profit.

Re: Div 2 Pts Meet @ South Ga.
 

I suspected as much. That's what I figured went I saw the shorter schedule in some divisions for 2010. The check a track cuts and gives to the sanctioning body for the privilege of hosting a divisional event is over 10k. Some tracks just can't afford to gamble on taking a loss from hosting a divisional.

Re: Div 2 Pts Meet @ South Ga.
 

I spoke with Roland on fri. about all this and he told me that he was getting tired of being put at the tail end of an already too busy schedule at the begining of the year. You have 3 divisionals and then the Gators within 2 months and then his race. He looked at it like everyone was either broke or gone back up north. He proposed theat NHRA let him hold a double race with NO alcohol on sunday (which I think would be a great idea) or move his race towards the end of the year. When he proposed the double race the response was "why would I do that". He would write NHRA another check for $16k and they wouldnt have to go anywhere. Why wouldnt they do that? He asked to tell everyone send an e-mail the the division and tell how they felt. I personaly dont think it will do anything but I sent mine already. If we can gripe on here we can gripe in an e-mail. Kevin

bholt@nhra.com

Re: Div 2 Pts Meet @ South Ga.
 

Here's another aspect about car counts and doing business, when the economy is in the dumps NHRA raises the entry fee to points races. I was one car count you will not get if they don't lower the entry fee or make the entry fee reasonable to the purse. To pay $160 to win $1k is totally stupid, when I can race locally for a $40 entry to win $650. I've been racing Stock since 1974 and never have I seen such greed in all that time since now. It sucks that I will have to attend at least one poinst race to get a grade point to race the Gator Nats as a vacation.
Don't misunderstand, I truely love Stock, but you have to draw lines in the sand at some time to try to get your point accross.

Casey Miles
248H

Re: Div 2 Pts Meet @ South Ga.
 

Kevin, the only problem with sending e-mails to Bill Holt, he will not read them, they will probably go to his spam folder!

Re: Div 2 Pts Meet @ South Ga.
 

Woodro, youre probably right. Maybe I should have put "the money i owe you" in the subject line to ensure he would atleast open it.

Re: Div 2 Pts Meet @ South Ga.
 

OR
lets see if SGMP will have a big pay out for all of the sportsman racers, 3 or 2 races insted of 2 days of sitting and 1 day of raceing.

take the $150.00 entry just like before, He dosnt have to pay NHRA there extortion money. then have our own (div.) race, all the classes, new SOUTHEAST RACERS ASSN., trophys that mean something

We all know that if the entry is fare, the pay out is fare, the racers will show up,

Its just a matter of time for this kind of raceing to start we dont need BIG BROTHER to have a good time and race with friends....

NHRA has already cut there thorats, now lets let them bleed to death

lets show up altogether at SGMP in the fall, and let MR. HOLT see we dont need him or his ORG.

Re: Div 2 Pts Meet @ South Ga.
 

Anybody have a final qualifying sheet from Valdosta in Stock or final ones for T/S, T/D please fax them to me. I'm in limbo waiting for them
Fax 775-743-8699

Re: Div 2 Pts Meet @ South Ga.
 

You have mail Joe. Jim

Re: Div 2 Pts Meet @ South Ga.
 

I was mad as hell. At them for dropping Valdosta It is one of the 2 points races within 200 miles for me.
But when I look at the bigger picture. It doesn't hurt as much. Don't get me wrong I will do whatever I can to get it reinstated.
One of the main reasons I go to points races to get event credits to get to national events.
Well last year Indy was the only race that closed with more than one grade point (and that was only in superstock). So dropping a points meet won't hurt that much.
I'm hoping there will be more track or association run meets. They are more fun and a whole lot more bang for the buck.

Re: Div 2 Pts Meet @ South Ga.
 

AMEN, Craig

Re: Div 2 Pts Meet @ South Ga.
 

This is a E-mail from Tim Fleming. The responce was from me asking why Valdosta was not on the schedule.

"Robert I appreciate your kind words but because of decreasing car counts and the cost of what we have to pay to have the event (NHRA fees,staff,VHT) and to pay the alcohol classes that which bring nothing in it just not a good date for us.The first the three division races and the Gators now you add Z-MAX two weeks later just to much by the time are date gets here.However we did try to work out a date with Bill Holt but could not get it worked out we will do one if he can move are date.Please understand its not that we don't want to do one we are just tired of losing money on it.We do feel like we have one of the tracks in division 2 and we have the worst date.If you come to the race this weekend this weekend I will happy to explain the rest of logistics.Thanks"

This backs up what others had heard. I sent this e-mail as soon as the schedule came out.

Re: Div 2 Pts Meet @ South Ga.
 

At the National Open, SGMP was able to pay larger purses to every eliminator, despite lower car counts than an early-season Divisional race, have three bracket races (Fri, Sat, Sun) with both Super Pro and Pro, and generally do well yet finish before 9 PM every day. SGMP came out fine.

The racers were happy because they had more chances to race, ran for Wallys and grade points in addition to more money than usual despite one or two fewer rounds and a lower entry fee, and the Stock/SS guys rewrote the record book (OK, that's luck with the weather, but still).

The only thing missing was points for Div. 2 and Jegs Allstars, and no contingency payout - a problem with bookkeeping, not racing.

Admittedly, with 25-30 cars in each eliminator things go more smoothly. But even with double the NHRA cars, we would have had time for a bracket race on Fri and Sat which finished by 10 PM.

Maybe Division 2 will see that this should be how races are run.

Re: Div 2 Pts Meet @ South Ga.
 

On the date issue, I think SGMP should get a date in either early May the week before the Southern Nationals, or in late Sept. the week after Charlotte.

Re: Div 2 Pts Meet @ South Ga.
 

Well guys after talking to a lot of racers and Track Operators, looks like the whole problem stems from the amount of money the Tracks have to pay out to run the Alcohol cars, and it is a losing proposition. Lets face it guys, how many spectators come to see them. Looks Like the Alcohol cars need to be run in National events just like the Pros. Some of the tracks in the division level are not geared around that type of car anyway. Now we have Top Sportsman and Top Dragster, that should be a good drawing card and maybe book in some type of show to go along with these cars.
Craig Couris was right on!
I would bet that SGMP would take his original date, without the Alcohol Cars. I just don't quite understand why NHRA would require a Divisional track to run Alcohol and knowing it is a losing proposition! Seems like they need to work with the Tracks, not against them!

Re: Div 2 Pts Meet @ South Ga.
 

It is quite evident that the Sportsman cars without the Alcohol track greasers can support (expense wise) themselves and make the tracks a profit at the same time. If NHRA wants the tracks to run the Alcohol cars then they need to step up and at least help to pay for the payouts! Why should Top Alcohol cars incur no expense at all? They pay nothing to get in and do nothing but cost the track operator $20 to $30 grand per event! That is pure profit loss for them. A perfect example of how it *could* be done is the Cajun SportsNationals @ Belle Rose. Pat knows and has made no secret of how it works! Stock/ Super Stock/ Comp classes with some fun races thrown in for good measure. Craig, Woody and Rollins are right on! The fact remains that if NHRA didn't ram the Alcohol down the track operator's throats is they would die a slow death. Top Dragster and Pro Mod is squeezing them out. No more free ride, everybody pays their way as we have been doing all along. Jim

Re: Div 2 Pts Meet @ South Ga.
 

Mechanical Rain Delay LOL
What a great quote

Re: Div 2 Pts Meet @ South Ga.
 

Right on Jim,,,,time has come for NHRA to step up or there won't be any divisional races in the near future!

Re: Div 2 Pts Meet @ South Ga.
 

I guess we are all wondering why the NHRA doesn't make common sense business decisions for themselves, their partners and their customers to increase profitability and customer satisfaction. The track owners, Manufacturers and the racers all get frustrated with the lack of appreciation and apathy that comes from the NHRA.
This is because the NHRA, like our freaking Goverment, doesn't have anyone in charge that has a BRAIN, or gives a **** about the people paying the BILLS. As car counts go down or people lose their jobs they just charge more or TAX more on the people who show up.
NHRA sportsman cars or cool, people will pay to see them, IF there was some promotion involved. Nobody pays to see Alcohol cars because nobody wants to see them! Why should 300 other racers pay high entry fees so a few alcohol racers can be paid to do their hobby. ITS ABSURD.
There are other drag racing shows out there that attracting huge crowds, those promoters are working at it, These NHRA points races haven't changed for YEARS(35 ?)
They need some FRESH ideas, and some effort into promotion. DAMM
I just watched the evening news and got all fired up. lol

Re: Div 2 Pts Meet @ South Ga.
 

Doug,

It is a great quote but I stole it from Robbie Shaw.


Couris

Re: Div 2 Pts Meet @ South Ga.
 

As I recall we were all standing at the fence at Silver Dollar watching the kerosene sideshow when He first called them that, its still as funny now as when I first heard it.

Larry, good post I get mad when I watch the news too

Re: Div 2 Pts Meet @ South Ga.
 

Guys
Like it or not Alcohol is part of the NHRA Div. Sportsman Racing Program. To suggest throwing them out is not the answer. I don't want any class to get the news your not welcome here anymore because you cost too much. That's not to say that they should'nt pay there way the same as all sportsman racers do. If we were racing for 5 times the money and two or three less rounds as they are they should'nt mind paying a fair entry fee and crew passes proportionate to the payout. The problem would not be near as bad and the track operator could deal with it a little better.
I think we all agee the problem is real and NHRA needs to deal with it.
Throwing them out is not the answer. Be carefull what you wish for your class may be next.

Mike

Re: Div 2 Pts Meet @ South Ga.
 

I don't think that the Alcohol classed should be deleted either. I do agree that they should pay the same entry fee/pit passes as the other classes AND race for the same purse as the other classes. If the Alcohol classes don't draw spectators to the event, for the benefit of the event and other competitors, then why the extra payout, and burden on the track owner and other competitors?
Of course these cars cost a lot to run, but look around the pits, people spend a lot on their cars in every class.

Re: Div 2 Pts Meet @ South Ga.
 

Boise, ID runs a Divisional without Alcohol cars.

They, instead, run a very entertaining Nitro Nostalgia deal.

It might be of interest to contact Firebird Raceway and ask the "New Crew" how they make money without Alcohol cars.

Jeff

Re: Div 2 Pts Meet @ South Ga.
 

I'd venture to say that some comp cars could easily be as expensive as a TAD