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NO! Even with deep staging, it would generate a lot of problems for 'certain' combinations, and a handicapped Pro Tree generates problems regarding a 'clean tree' (even worse than Full tree), and people having to be on the converter forever on a long spot. Next thing you know, they'd want Starting Line Enhancers, etc., etc... Giant can of worms.

You can go run a handicapped Pro Tree at Beaver Springs on Friday nights, if you wish.

Just my opinion.

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what is a clean tree?

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That is one without the other side coming down while your trying to watch your side. Slower call cars think it is a joke, but they don't have to give that many head starts to have to deal with it. I have talked to two other racers lately, both much better drivers than myself (ain't sayin much) and they told me they have a problem I have, that is the slower car leaving first often distracts you. Good lights come easier if your leaving first. But then you have no control at the finish line. There are advantages and disadvantges to both situations. Some like to throw out "you should FOCUS". But, "don't red light" could also be mentioned.

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thanks. I have only run a pro tree bracket race once, but I liked it.
It would probably be harder in a stock/superstock combo race than in each separate eliminator.
If I am not mistaken, this is how alot of the muscle car and mustang racing bodies do it though.

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A lot of people like it because most can't red light on a pro tree. One less mistake you can make, and some think they are so much quicker at the tree it would give them an advantage. Then guys figure out if they are running a car three or four tenths slower they can just leave when the other car does, and the slower guy is just screwed. Ran some AHRA races like that in the '70s wasn't fair to the slower cars.

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If they did that I would go back to Class racing in a Heartbeat.

Instead of PT why not allow delay boxes. Same thing.

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Heck, you can't even do that now! People would have the same issues with Deep Stagers on a Pro Tree as they would on a Full Tree... only more so!

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Don call Scotty Stillings or TIm Griffith and ask them about deep staging. If they had not won so much going deep you could still do it.

I personally don't have a problem with deep stagers. There are a lot of Whiners that do though.
Chip

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Thanks Don but no thanks.Before "helping" us slower guys why don't you take a poll of slower cars and find out what they think.I can only speak for myself.I wasn't happy when deep staging was discontinued,but not for the obvious reason.I couldn't believe the bull**** reasons that were used for stopping it.We were the biggest cheaters since the famous Dirty Dozen.
Toby was one of those who deep staged and adjusted very well.The cry babies should have kept their yaps shut.He only got better without it.
Obviously I can't hold a candle to him,but excludung last year (I only was out about 3 times) I could hold my own here in Div 1.
So Don,why do you really want the change?

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I think you took my note wrong. I've always been a proponent of having deep staging legal.

What I was saying was that the same people that got deep staging banned the first time would have the same complaints all over again, and people who don't understand how Autostart works would once again be racing to the line, quick-staging or hanging people out, blah blah blah... Additionally, Deep Staging on a Pro Tree with courtesy staging enforced can be very difficult, as you have a full second less to get in and set. I've deep-staged on a .400 Pro Tree under those circumstances (7.00 index racing). Try pre-staging, bringing it up to 3800rpm, and then jamming it in Deep before the tree falls. LOL It was fun, but hardly a competitive way to race.

Going back to the very beginning of the thread though: Why? What's wrong with Full Tree racing? Great conversation for curing winter boredom, granted... ;)

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Don,you want to stop the 10%ers.Poke them in the eye with your thumb right before they get in the car to race you.
Seriously,if you think it will help others to beat these guys you're sadly mistaken.These guys will still win no matter what you do,short of them retiring from racing.
Work on making yourself a better racer.
It's gonna be a looooong winter.

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[QUOTE=Don Kennedy;154368]Ed Said "Work on making yourself a better racer."

Ed just about every body in the world knows that fact , you are right on

but in Drag racing not everyone can do this because they are not able to race every weekend so , now what I (remember this is just my opinion) say that there should be ways to help the true sportsman win more , one of the ways (of course we all know there are many other ways to do this also) is to eliminate one of the ways a sportsman can lose and that is eliminating the red light or at least make it harder for them to do this by going to a pro tree and allow deep.

Don, you sound like a spokesman for the Obama administration.No, we don't have to
take anything away from the guys who win more than the rest of us,just because they have the means to race more,run faster cars,etc.This is the United States,a country built on
the principle of having the opportunity to go as far as we can.Enough PC level playing field bull****.We expect it of our government,we should expect no less when we sit in our
cars and go out for 1st round.
Now that's my opinion.

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Don,not when you're pushing this.It's drag racing socialism.

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If you are actually leaving off of the bottom bulb on a full tree and are redlighting,what makes you think that you will not redlight on a .500 Pro Tree?

You want a .400 Pro Tree so you won't redlight?

I think a .400 Pro Tree would be good for HEADS UP runs.
If you have the slower car,you might be able to steal the round.Otherwise,there is virtually no chance to win if you are a tenth or more slower in performance.

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My opinion is if you want a pro tree go race super gas.

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99.99999999999999999999999999999999999% of the people who read this forum know who I am.

If you have a problem redlighting,then WAIT until you see the GREEN light.That usually solves the problem!

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Hey Don,who came first,the chicken or the egg.That should keep you busy for a while.Good night.

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You know there is such a thing called the split tree ,full tree and pro lite,pick your poison and go for it.All the tracks have to do is have the racers pick what tree they want ,write it down on there tech card, and program it in under there NHRA number,that way you pro liters got your tree, and full tree guys got theres.But i bet the full tree guys will still bitch,even if it has a no deep stage .

RON NICKELS
BRACKET RACER
SINCE 1968

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Don my friend, you're getting old and it's late, so maybe that's why you don't recognize who 442Olds is even though he's posted his name on here numeous times.

As for your opinion, you're entitled to it, but I believe it's OK to be wrong, again! - or so they tell our (grand)kids these days.

Nice new ride by the way!!

Jerry

PS: Think Daryl Bureski.

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Pro Tree and deep stage... hum-mm that might bring out a few more stick racers. It might also confuse the few spectators we have. Why even mention them?
Don, was it a slow day at the office today? You "just had to" come up with something to pull our chain.
Lets all just come up with about 15 or 20 things NHRA can change.
That would help add to their confusion about what to do with us class racers and give them more reasons to phase us out. Yea, that's it... Lets just make class racing more confusing...
Ok I'll take that pill and go to bed..

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Don, It seems like only yesterday, but it was 1989. Yikes! Glad you like your new car.

Jerry

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It wasn't too long ago, 1990 or 91 that we were bracket racing with a .4 pro tree. Don, If you were bracket racing back then, you know "to keep the pencil sharp" you will remember that everyone wanted to leave 1st and or have the slowest car because it was darn near impossible to leave second and have a chance at cutting a good or for that matter consistent light.

So not sure why you are asking for this... we already did this...........

Maybe you should work on slowing down the cars reaction:
1. More front travel
2. shock settings
3. 4 link settings
4. bracket race for practice

You get the idea.......figure out your stuff, quit asking for a keyboard solution....Please!

Refer to #4 often!!!!!!

Rich

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Don,
I told you I needed that pill...& the sleep.. :~)

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I think I know where you might be going with this thread,so I will help you out.


Don,

When the tree comes down,how much time between each bulb?

In other words,do you agree that the bulbs are spaced .500 apart?

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It's good to see that alot of thought went into this before posting. On that note, I was thinking how a cheeseburger and a cold beer should cost about $2.50 and that would include a pickle and some chips. Oh well I guess neither one of us is in touch with reality. I know who you are Daryl and you are in touch with reality.

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Don,this is my last post on this subject.Answer this question.
Show me anywhere in any sport where there is a "level playing field".The only place bull**** like that is considered is the democratic far left playbook.And after 60 years and who knows how many $billions there are still haves and have nots.That can be transposed to just about any facet of our lives.When are the Chicago Cubs going to win a World Series?Or the Cleveland Browns a Super Bowl.
It's NHRAs main job to provide a safe environment to race,not baby sit malcontents and whiners.