Black Tuesday?
 

Re: Black Tuesday?
 

WOW, I just can't believe it !!!!!!!

Thank you Daryl, I had no idea that website still existed !!!! LOL

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Prediction:

Indexes - .3

Trigger + .15 (1.00 under)

Automatic hit + .15 (1.25 under)

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wow

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Mark I agree with most of what you said except the trigger may be 1.10 rather than 1.00

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The trigger should be around .75 or .80 under to make the AHFS system be effective with these new Doges, Mustangs, and engines. The lower classes such as G, H, and I stock are going to take a beating from the Dodges. Nothing will change except the little guy will have more trouble making the field at Indy and places where they usually get more than 128 cars in the field. Its just going to cost more money to run with the big dogs. Nothing changes.

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Nothing changes unless your combination is one of the 15 to get hit with hp.

Lets hope its just a rumor.

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It may be Friday, Tuesday sound a little early.

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If its true that they are dropping all the indexs 3 tenths, there will be less sandbagging at national events and the price of lead will be a lot cheaper. It would take a pass of 1.45 under todays index system for a combination to be triggered. This makes it a lot easier on NHRA to monitor. Plus how many cars do you see that run less then 3 tenths under?

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I think that Mark has the inside track.

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Wow, This could be the first move by NHRA that would make the AHFS have better teeth. It would be much more fair for cars which have been in existance for years and factored multiple times which continue to try to compete with BOGUS,or PAPER cars NHRA continues to allow as well as the lack of appropriate starter HP for the new stuff.
Just imagine where the Mustangs would be today running their current numbers with this system.
If I am correct a car 1.45 under current Index would be 1.75 under. Imagine how much quicker they would be corrected if anyone else races them in class. Problem remains how often would they be PUSHED to run fast and get factored?
Better think about a higher Stock class or move the designations down so A would be lighter car than current AA and etc to keep same letters used .

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Mark -- I have it from several sources that your prediction is spot on .............no one is sure what day it will be released .

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Screwing around with the indexes and triggers is all well and good, but what I wanna know is how that's going to help get rid of all the touring pro sportsman racers and keep me from red lighting?

Seriously, lowering the indexes is probably one of the gheyest rule changes I've ever heard of. Why not just raise the triggers? Raise the flag trigger to -1.30 and the permanent trigger to -1.55. Same thing.


-Toby

Re: Black Tuesday?
 

To Dick....

I think you read this backwards...... drop indexes by .30 (means to me that my index of 11.50 would change to 11.20 - not 11.80)


I think this is the stupidest thing ever done! How will any combo get looked at if the trigger just gets .15 added to it (thats if indexes change .30 and trigger only changes .15). That means this years trigger would have to been at -1.30 to be the same as what they are proposing. How many -1.30 runs were there this year? THE AFHS WILL BE USELESS... (and nhra will have less combos to adjust).

Did I read this wrong.... I don't think so.

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I know of a class that was just hit .15, another .30 would kill me. I may have to step on it a little harder. Happy holidays everyone! Dyno

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I agree to the part of Toby's comment ( not sure what gheyest is ) raising the triggers vs changing the index's

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TOM, I did get it backwards as far as trigger affect. This was discussed months ago as useless on correcting HP. It only changed the index. Old index 11.5, new 11.2 . Problem is the trigger should be -.8 or -.7 so it is more sensitive not less... Make a run of 10.50. the trigger...
Sorry I was bas-ak wards on the trigger change...
Note guys only one or two cars which ever attend our events are not .5 under the old index.It is still a dial in race for Eliminator but it sure would help class become more even quickly.
Thanks Tom.

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Kent-

Ghey is a west coast description of something that's stupid. I was hoping for five tenths reduction and raising the trigger. lol! Seriously, I don't see too many "class racer's" having a problem with running under the new indexes. IMO

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Maybe someone out there can help me understand why they would change the indexes. Anyone with a real answer???
Jack Matyas, your are a sensible guy, your thoughts please.....

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About Time!! Index's have been way to easy way to long!

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If NHRA really wanted to make their AHFS work and catch all those who sandbag they would use the 1/8 mile ET for the trigger, things would be different for sure, Paul.

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Paul-

The fast guys know how to slow their cars down before the 1/8th mile marker, as well as the 1/4.

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You may be right, but I'm sure there will be some people who will have problems running under the new indexes. Especially at certain tracks like Bristol, but let's not get into that right now. Let's just assume that everybody can run under the new indexes without any problems.

How will lowering the indexes help you win more rounds in eliminations?
How will lowering the indexes help you win more races?
How will lowering the indexes help you win more heads-up races?
How will lowering the indexes help you win more class eliminations?
How will lowering the indexes help you be number one qualifier more often (if that's your gig.)?


-Toby

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Yes, thats a very good point but slowing their cars down before the 1/8th mile could be a fatal decision in a heads up run, Paul.

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I guess it's time to get that Ak Miller triple carb manifold dusted off..........

"Dear NHRA tech......."

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Does everyone realize this POST should be broke up into TWO different topics?

#1 - as Toby is asking.... Why lower all indexes... it is debatable.

#2 - if trigger in 2009 is -1.15 and -1.40..... where will it end up in 2010 (if indexes are changed). Should it be even harder to trigger a review/or easier- which will have more impact to our class?

You can't debate one subject without looking at both - BUT they are two seperate subjects.

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It's not about any of your concerns. It's about you taking your stocker and running superstock. It's about the guys running at the bottom with "stock" parts now having to actually purchase performance parts from the dying contingency companies. C'mon Toby, it's not a conspiracy against the "brake pedal bandits," it's simply a business decision.

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I have watched Steve Wann run Super Gas with his Super Stocker. None of the S/G guys cared. If they did not delete classes at nationals, that would not happen........

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bingo !

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Charlie-

Until they stop allowing stockers to enter superstock. Filling the fields before some poor sap with a superstocker could enter, then you're right, no reason, based on your example. I just think that when a "legal" stocker can run eight tenths under in superstock, there's a problem somewhere. Just my opinion.

BTW, nice meeting you in Pomona.

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Well, it looks like it's about your concerns though. Why not just make a rule that says if you have entered a car in Stock this year you can't enter it in Super Stock later or something similar.

Aren't the guys at the bottom the ones you want to run heads-up? What's wrong with people running at the bottom with stock parts? How does it effect you?

Yes, sounds like a good business decision to drive customers away.


-Toby

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Valid point about the stocker at .8 under in SS. SOOOOOOOOOO, just give those combos hp, why nail an entire class for a few hot rods that like to show off??
The pleasure was mine meeting you Sean

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I agree Toby, it would drive me away.

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Good reasons:

I must have heard this one a hundred times..whenever someone brings up doing away with heads up runs in eliminations : "It's supposed to be a performance based eliminator"


Think about this. A guy can go to Indy and be 180th qualifier (dead last) @ .06 under. He's a full second away from the slowest qualifier.
That same guy can go to the very next National event and win it.

Something's wrong with this picture.

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Do you know what kills me about this .You guys bitch and moan about moving the indexes do you know what stock and super stock is A PERFORMANCE CLASS. if you want to bracket race go to your local track and stop bitching If you want to race nats and divionals make your car faster!!!!!

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Mark - That guy doesn't have to wait for the next national event. He could have a hell of a weekend with no heads up runs and win Indy THAT week! That's why they have an eliminator. Otherwise, they'd just issue checks to the lowest qualifiers.

The way I see it, the "performance based" aspect is that you have run a certain number to get in the show. Once you're in, anyone can win.

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What are my concerns Toby? Seems yours are mine. Go ahead and get some kind of rule change like the one you suggested. I'm sure some of the TSR would love that, especially coming from you.

I don't care who I run heads up. If I can't beat them, I work harder on the car, or myself, until I do. You can run as much "stock" parts as you like. It just makes it easier to beat you, if I get the chance to run you heads up.

Yes, it actually does sound like a good business decision. Put some pressure on the racers that don't participate as highly as the others in the purchasing of performance parts. Isn't that a big carrot in why you race, Toby, the contingency payouts?

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Yea I don't see any down side to lowering the index. Should be .5 if they want to keep Stockers out of Super Stock but .3 would be a start.

I have to agree this is a performance class and the cars should have to run like it. This should not be a simple bracket class. How many current cars could not run a new index that is -.3 lower.

I don't think it is a money deal either. Everyone used to run under the index with stock cranks, rods and valves before they relaxed the indexes back in '92-'93 or when ever it was.

Heck with all the new rules changes maybe they should think about lowering them .8. That would make it interesting. Certainly see more ice in the lanes and cut out a bunch of sandbaggers. Oh yea one more thing. If you don't run the index you don't qualify.

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Bob, I meant to say non-qualifier. They only allow 128 cars to race at National events.

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Quote:
It's about the guys running at the bottom with "stock" parts now having to actual purchase performance parts from the dying contingency companies.


This is stock eliminator. Maybe if NHRA had kept the stock in the eliminator we would not ne in this position.

I really hope that my new motor will run the new index since I followed the rules and built a stock motor per the rules.