all the talk on how to save class racing....
 

got me to thinking (scarey all in itself), when's the last time you seen a drag racing magazine on the magazine rack at your grocery store/borders/barnes& noble/etc?
i haven't seen a mag in a helluva long time, is there even any out?

Re: all the talk on how to save class racing....
 

Bought one yesterday. Barnes & Noble has one every month. Drag Racer Magazine. Drag Racing Action is also available, but I subscribe.

Re: all the talk on how to save class racing....
 

Makes you wish Super Stock & Drag Illustrated was still around.

Re: all the talk on how to save class racing....
 

Doug, the new Drag Illustrated is back. It covers all of the associations so far. Mostly T/F and FC, P/M, P/S, T/D, T/S, some comp stuff, SS and Stock as well but not as much as we would like... It sounds like they will be doing more Sportsman stories and advertising.
The articles I have read were really interesting and informative. There is an article in the latest issue (#39 with Sheikh Khalid on the cover) about Larry Morgan you need to read.
www.dragillustrated.com


Barry

Re: all the talk on how to save class racing....
 

Thanks Barry, hopefully this mag won't be like my Dragsters that the mailman seems to read for a couple weeks before I get them lol.

Re: all the talk on how to save class racing....
 

Drag racing action didn't start out bad with a lot of sportsman stuff. Now its all about the pros. If I wanted to know what Larry Dixon eats for breakfast I would go to nhra web site. I miss SSDI.

Re: all the talk on how to save class racing....
 

SS&DI was the best drag racing magazine ever. I am fortunate to have every issue that was published, and I still spend quite a bit of time rereading them.
Bill Seabrooks - superfan1
Bridgeport, CT

Re: all the talk on how to save class racing....
 

I'm an outsider here...but I currently race with the NMCA in Mean Street. (well I guess let's say "try" to race:) )
Why couldn't you take a heads up class with similar rules and integrate it into Stock Eliminator? One thing I think it may have going for it is more sponsorship appeal, since there's alot of aftermarket stuff on these cars. The NMCA prostock class might integrate well as a Super Stock class too.
http://www.nmcadigital.com/rules.html

Re: all the talk on how to save class racing....
 

Too much tech (and expense)

NHRA doesn't have the budget for it. They even had to re-neg on Gold Cards this year.

Re: all the talk on how to save class racing....
 

Is that anymore tech than the current classes? Or is reducing tech the NHRA's goal?

Re: all the talk on how to save class racing....
 

I think NHRA tried a similar economy class back in the day....... it was called Super Modified. Jim

Re: all the talk on how to save class racing....
 

The things that keep someone like myself from running a class-legal stocker are the cumulative total of many years of "enhancements" that "take the goody" out of running a car in the Stock classes.

NHRA has systematically destroyed nearly all of the positive aspects of what used to make it not only worthwhile to race a car in Stock, but financially reasonable, in terms of what you might win vs. your payout for all expenses.

I don't know the exact chronology, nor all of the many things that have transpired to make running a Stocker less of an exciting endeavor and more of a chore, but a few of the ones I can readily bring to mind are:

1. Increasing entry fees, insurance surcharges, cutting down on the number of people the entry fee covers (crew)

2. Allowing camshafts that encourage high-rpm operation beyond what truly stock valvetrain components can support, and the expensive, modified "hydraulic" lifters that will work at these elevated rpms. Stock duration should have never gone away.

3. The AHFS, a system so badly flawed and slow to act that it is the laughing stock of knowledgeable racers throughout the Eliminator. Except, it's not funny...

4. The advent of "crate motor" manufacturer cars such as these new Ford "Modified Production" cars disguied as Stockers, with NHRA's blesssing... and the competition-destroying, ultra-low HP factors that come with them.

5. The sad, and unfortunate, lessening of the importance of Class national records. Once, it was a badge of honor to be able to write "NHRA NATIONAL RECORD HOLDER" on your car, and was worth money in product endorsements, and I think NHRA even rewarded new record holders with a cash prize, but I'm not sure about that.
Now, hardly anyone actively pursues national records. My apologies to those who do; I applaud you!

6. Reducing the importance of Stock Eliminator to the point that certain national events don't even HAVE Stock Eliminator contested.

7. Contingency payouts have been reduced to a fraction of their totals, of years ago.

8. Disallowing cars built before 1960 was a huge mistake, and keeps some all-time crowd favorites ('57 Chevys of all descriptions, for example) home in the garage when they could be thrilling their fans... because NHRA is too lazy and apathetic to classsify and police the older cars any more.

9. Failing to police the ubiquitous, and infamous $5,000.00 cylinder heads, without which, your Stocker is almost guaranteed to be an "also ran" for class...

10. The payout situation for Eliminator wins is an insult to the racers. Over the years, the amount you earn from NHRA for winning Stock has not grown with the economy (inflation,) and years ago, when it still wasn't all that much money, contingency money did a pretty good job of propping up the NHRA's sad offering, but now, that's not gonna happen...

11. Making Stock Eliminator, with its gorgeous, show-car paint jobs, flawless, block-sanded bodies, and meticulously maintained engine compartments, and yes, IMPRESSIVE performances (not the least of which feature bumper-dragging wheelstands) the BEST KEPT SECRET IN DRAG RACING!!! :( When have you seen a TV ad, or an advertisement in a car magazine promoting NHRA Stocker racing, with pictures and glowing prose???

They (NHRA) have let grass-roots racing at the national level, wither on the vine.... and it has SO MUCH to offer... or, did.

Corporate greed is at the bottom of 90-percent of this; having people who run the ($$$) show that have never made a trip down the drag strip in anything, much less a 9-second Stocker...

I don't see it changing until those bozos leave the stage.

Re: all the talk on how to save class racing....
 

I believe that Bill has it said correctly here. Dave Boertman won over $10,000 for stock eliminator at Indy in 1971 using an engine that probably cost around $350 to duplicate in 1971 in a $300 dollar body. How much in todays (2010) money would that $10,000 be. The cost of building a car like his or say someone like Boby Warrens Chev 2 combo vs the potential profit margin? No "enhanced heads" lite wt. trans., killer valve springs, expensive lifters, etc. $70,000 to $100,000 "kit cars" not to mention Toter Homes and stacker trailers. Oh well.....yesterday is just a memory.

Re: all the talk on how to save class racing....
 

Terry,

According to the online cost-of-living calculator I use, (http://tinyurl.com/b2jacs)

$10,000.00 in 1971 is equal to $52,938.27 in 2009.

Thanks for bringing that up...

Re: all the talk on how to save class racing....
 

Now figure out the NHRA upper management salaries , 1971 vs 2009.

I don't want this to sound like class warfare, though. I'm all for capitalism, but as long as we keep giving, they're going to keep taking.

Re: all the talk on how to save class racing....
 

Dosent that amount of money won in 1971 dollars make it seem like slamming your D##K in a car door would hurt less than the amount of money guys are racing for today vs the investment they put into these "Stockers" today...lol. The accual amount Dave Boertman won was closer to $11,000 dollars at Indy in 1971. I was rounding it off for a comparison.

Re: all the talk on how to save class racing....
 

I dont want to say this lest I start a "flame war" I think many will agree, and that was the point of the post I responded to.

It would SEEM to me, the poster who talked about $350 engine etc. Is not only correct, and my idea of Stock Eliminator was about 25 years out of Date, same with the Old Mans....He ran C Modified Production..... but whats STRANGE.....is it seems to cost damm near as much to compete in stock as it does TAFC ?!? The car , setting up to do a year on the road.....It can be done "on the cheap" stock but I dont see how in A or AA....could be wrong....but wow...

IF I would have know how much it really cost I would have pushed another direction for us, something in a heads up class......but were here now....no use crying. Sally Forth !

Re: all the talk on how to save class racing....
 

i wanna see nekked pictures of the "sally forth"....


anyway, what i was getting at about the magazines is, aside from some usefull info and ads, there's nothing to grab a kids' attention out there.
i DO miss ss/di and bracket racing usa but with both of them gone (for years now), what's a guy to read in the crapper?
no, i'm not gonna buy a laptop just to make smell bad...

Re: all the talk on how to save class racing....
 

I can tell you from the outside looking in ( someone who has a bracket car who wants to go class racing) it looks to be d*!N near impossible to be able to run what these cars are running and be by the rule book and not cost a fortune for some wild "legal "motor. The last time I looked in my stock room Chrysler did not have a "crate motor " in stock that would push a 3300 lbs Duster into the 6.70's !!! Make it so the normal everyday racer can run and have a chance and you would see a lot more turn out.

Re: all the talk on how to save class racing....
 

Funny you say that. The supermarket right around the corner from me always has Drag Racer magazine on the shelf, along with the typical Mustang, GM, and Hot Rod magazines. Then come to find out, the store's general manager raced in the NMRA and in Pro ET.

Re: all the talk on how to save class racing....
 

Mark,

$700,000.00 in 2009 equates to

$132,229.48 in 1971.

I don't have any idea what that means, because I have no clue as to what the top cat at NHRA made that year (1971.)

Anybody????

Would that have been Wally? That was pre-Dallas Gardner, right?

If it was uncle Wally, there's no telling...

Re: all the talk on how to save class racing....
 

Another way to save the class racing we all love might be to support the local stock / ss combos some of the local drag strips and other start up groups are trying to organize. Why drive 200 miles , take off work 3 days, spend big money on a hotel room or an RV, and 170 dollars entry fees for little or no money when you could run down the street for 100 bucks and maybe a thousand to win. Encourage your local track or promoter to include a once a month or several times per year in their schedule. Promoters take heed. Instead of trying to re- invent stock / ss racing, try to organize, maybe a circut using several drag strips in your area, like the mannual sticks racers did, and the Goodguys with some of their classes. It always starts out small and then grows. Teching will always be a problem, even NHRA does not want to spend the money,and everyone is always bending the rules.

Re: all the talk on how to save class racing....
 

As many on here have said the biggest obstacle to newcomers is the money it takes to be competitive. Heres a fresh idea to make class racing less exclusive: Let racers who dont spend money on external hard core parts move down a class or two. I propose the following.

1) use of stock rims, dot slicks & old fashion traction bars (REWARD=MOVE DOWN ONE CLASS)

2) use of full exhaust system (REWARD=MOVE DOWN ONE CLASS)

3) use factory T-10, muncie, toploader trans (REWARD=MOVE DOWN ONE CLASS)

4) use street equipment, pwr steer, alt, factory water pump, pwr brake booster, wipers (REWARD=MOVE DOWN ONE CLASS)

This would really boost car counts and I would be the first guy in line to sign up because now I could compete with my Firebird in class L or M instead of H or i without having to spend a fortune. It would appeal to the stock appearing types too.

Re: all the talk on how to save class racing....
 

what's a guy running v/s gonna do?

Re: all the talk on how to save class racing....
 

I think the "Pinks all out" thing has really helped. No, its not class racing but its something to get the spectators and racers that otherwise dont race involved. The biggest thing that I here from young people, some who drag race/test and tune, and others who dont is the question "why do so many cars in a bracket race/index racing sand bag?" I feel that some kind of "heads up racing" is what the younger crowd is looking for. "package racing" could be the answer. I know heads up racing is tuff to work out do to all the diffferent cars and mods. But do what Pinks does. Pick a certain field or two or three fields.

Re: all the talk on how to save class racing....
 

Seems like this thread got a little off-base but...

Some of the reasons we don't see many drag racing magazines on the newsstands these days might have more to do with distribution rights and the fact that today there are so many niche magazines on the market. In the ye' old days, book stores, delicatessens, coffee shops, etc., had one rack with magazines on it. Today we have magazine racks that are as long as the motorhomes and trailers we tow with. It only stands to reason that sometimes a title can get lost in the crowd. Add in the Internet and it becomes a real job to combat. And then of course we have the titles that are no longer with us, such as Super Stock & Drag Illustrated. Titles which were owned by big corporations that sold more Sewing World (I'm kidding of course) than any other. Isn't money always the key? That's why we encourage people to subscribe and purchase the drag racing mags which are alive today.

And while on the subject of magazines alive today, I can tell you that everyone who works on our magazine, Drag Racing Action, has as much passion to produce the best magazine as any racer out there has for the sport. While we too are owned by a big corporation, as long as our ad and magazine sales stay strong (and they currently are); I'll stop at saying we're invincible; but we should be around for a while. Our goal when we started this magazine was to mimick the old Super Stock. While a lot of things have changed since then and we have to react to those changes, that goal is still in the back of our minds. Yes, we have pro car coverage. A photo of John Force (or any other pro) on the cover is there to sell newsstand copies. But our goal is to always gear the magazine toward the sportsman/bracket end of the sport. That's what our advertisers have told us, so that's what we do. More than anything else, our pro to sportsman coverage; and that includes tech; will always lean 2:1 in favor of sportsman.

I apologize, but this got a little longer than intended.

Re: all the talk on how to save class racing....
 

NOPW,
We did just what you are suggesting back in the 70's at tracks I owned and the Hallsville track. That was when Stock and SuperStock, Modified was in an evolution phase that was putting the little guy out. It kept the local spectator / racer interest up and helped attendance until Bracket racing took hold. (then the spectators left) Now we see the evolution to Index racing and it is bringing back some spectator apeal.
I've been working on a format to address todays needs.

Good to hear you long, short story John... :~)
A lot of racers are just focused on racing and forget about the business aspect that drives or is associated with our sport.

Re: all the talk on how to save class racing....
 

Adger:

Remember what I told you you should do a couple of years ago?

Have you been thinking about that? Hope you are coming up with

a few good ideas to improve upon hat suggestion.

S.E.

Re: all the talk on how to save class racing....
 

Like Mike says: Support your local tracks. Sometimes you can make more $ w/your stock/ss car by staying "closer to home" and going to a local track "special event" rather than hauling to that far-away, pricey National Event that specializes in poor sportsman class treatment, high entry fees, and miniscule payback....just 2 cents worth of mine....:D WJ

Re: all the talk on how to save class racing....
 

Well I dont think anyone would want to be out there in anything slower than V/S. Maybe they could get a weight reduction or something, or maybe its just tough luck. The details would have to be figured out by NHRA anyway. If you can penalize someone for running aluminum heads(horsepower hit) then it seems logical to reward the guy who keeps his car closer to stock and isnt that what we all want-more stock in stock eliminator. Maybe this could be a way to reverse the trend of more and more extreme parts, without having to start all over.This would not hurt anyone it would just draw new people in, I think lots of new people. Think of it as de-evolution.

Re: all the talk on how to save class racing....
 

{Quote:
Adger:

Remember what I told you you should do a couple of years ago?

Have you been thinking about that? Hope you are coming up with

a few good ideas to improve upon hat suggestion.

S.E. } end Quote

Yes, S.E.
I'm still thinking about what we talked about a few years ago, more and more. I've got about 10 pages of word documents stored. Lots of random thoughts in there. Alex and I still converse about what we had with the US Class Nationals. I even have a couple of outlines that makes sense out of class racing on a National level. I just need to win the Arkansas Lottery or find a business/benefactor that wants to fund and could benefit from a Great Adventure.. :~) I hope to see you at some races this summer and hope you are enjoying retirement, again.

Re: all the talk on how to save class racing....
 

YOU'VE JUST RAN OFF THE GUYS In V.
(sorry 'bout the caps,fat fingers..)
because NOW they'd have to run R/S cars and there's only "w" left.
besides, didn't we have "pure stock" years ago?
i THINK ihra still does...don't know, don't have an ihra track anywhere's close to here



just had a thought!
how about if you're running an "orphan" make car, you get to drop down another class?