thanks NHRA..
 

Anyone else start a budget project with a goal on how fast they wanted to run and now due to NHRA's great idea to drop index's you may be re-evaluating and maybe not even running stock in the near future?

Story: Me(21) and my bro(20) decide we want to build a stock just under a year ago. We both are full time students at UofA but have a part time jobs with some extra spending money. both been in the sport for a while but dad has paid for nearly everything. We decide we can put together a car that may run just under index and be perfect to get our feet wet without dads money. around $12,000 dollars and a couple Christmas and b-day gifts later.. 8 months of sweat and BAM! stocker complete.. first day testing and were actually a tenth faster than we had hoped for when the build started.. problem is we intended to be about 3 tenths under in the beggining so at tracks like Firebird where they get no altitude correction we will be a couple hundredths too slow.
We will find the ET I have very little concern of that. We've been in this sport too long to just quit because we're too slow. BUT it got me thinking how on earth do we expect people on a budget to even consider trying to join our sport? this is our first try at stock and i guarantee that may people would either sell the car and find a new sport or they will look to some of the other more exciting associations where they can go a hell of a lot faster with a hell of a lot less restrictions for the same amount of cash...

rant over ha
good lucky this year everybody
BH

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I think you just answered your own question - you guys proved that it CAN be done, even with the index drop. If I follow your math correctly, you're a tenth under the new index, right out of the box, brand new car that you built yourselves, on a tight budget. This stuff isn't for those seeking instant gratification, for the most part...it's the challenge of finding that next hundredth with the rulebook in hand.
I'm looking forward to watching what you guys do this year!

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Why make it so hard for new stock racers and those on a tight budget to compete? Car counts were way down at some of the division 6 and 7 races already. If they go much lower it will make less and less sense for NHRA to continue both stock and super stock. In a couple of division races I went to as much as 20% of the field wasn't .3 under! Why not let people participate while they learn? When we started back racing in 94, if the index was tougher we would of quit! There is a learning curve in racing.....especially on a working mans budget. We now bring 4 stockers to the races when we can make time! That would have been 4 less if we had quit, thats 1/5 of the field in a few of the 20 car divisional. We live in a small town where it is hard to find a whole lot of help or advice on stock racing so it took a few years to get up to speed! I don't have any other personal motives......all our cars ran over a second under old index last time out. Irving Family Racing NHRA National Record Holders :)

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I think you just answered your own question - you guys proved that it CAN be done, even with the index drop. If I follow your math correctly, you're a tenth under the new index, right out of the box, brand new car that you built yourselves, on a tight budget. This stuff isn't for those seeking instant gratification, for the most part...it's the challenge of finding that next hundredth with the rulebook in hand.
I'm looking forward to watching what you guys do this year!
Today 05:06 AM

Paul, I'd agree with you if we were back in the 1970's or 80's, it was like your reply back then.
But now it's only how deep are your pockets and how are you willing to spend to pick up a hundredth. This is far from stock when you are talking about piston weights, lifters that never were ever offered in any stock vehicle. Stock has turned to mod with a stock looking body that now even gets over looked.

HawkBrosMav, instead of paying stupid entry fees that don't pay back what you have contributed percentage wise, take the car to your local track and enjoy racing. Local racing is far more profitable unless you are a touring Pro. That's the advice I'd give my sons if they decided to go racing.

Casey Miles
248H

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You guys need to stop crying and get with the program..
Money helps but hard work and testing will get you there..
Work on you car or GO PLAY GOLF..
NHRA National Event is a Privledge
You gotta get grade points..build a CLASS CAR.
That why you wanna try this ,,ITs NOT Suppose to BE EASY
They are the only game in town,,[IHRA most any combo will do]
Spend some time And Money and Test
Or stick to your local bracket racing program
GET OFF THE COMPUTER
BITCHES AND WORK ON YOU CAR

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Dont get to discouraged. Right out of the box your running what you wanted? You should know by your going to find more little things going to make it run quicker. Plus with all the help you have down there and the people you can talk to just a little north on the 10, it will be running just fine. Not to mention the way both of you drive.

Are you guys bringing it to Phoenix for the open?

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Right on, James.

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I am relatively new to the Forum, but I do not think that posts like Mr. Perrone's are very positive , nor are they necessary. Is there really a need to be so nasty?

I ran a Super Stocker back in the early 70's and left the sport when I went to work for the government. I got back into drag racing in a bracket car back in 2003. At the end of last year I decided to try class rcing again. I have just finished converting my bracket car to a Stock Eliminator car. I too was a little dishartened to see that the index was dropped .3. I ,like the Hawks will do the best I can until I am able to get my car to run a competitive et.

I appreciate all the work that you other racers put into your cars. I know that class racing is expensive, and like many retirees I have a limited racing budget. Like many of you, I fear that the NHRA will eventually phase us out of existance. When that happens I will race my very expensive class car in the bracket races.

I look forward to seeing the Hawk family at the races here in Division7. Perhaps you can make it up for the National Time Trials, ot the National Open at Speedworkd.

Raul Vargas

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I agree with James, first I think he was very polite he's from new york , second most if not all people I know who built cars were slow or over index out of the box. the only way to go faster is work or buy a car that's already fast. I can think of three off the top of my head that are almost a second under for less than $20,000.00 that's less than a new car and there old muscle. good luck and go to work and test.

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Dead on Perrone !!

Good luck with your project ! Dont give up, just get hungry. If you can make the time, you will enjoy it !

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Simple question, who's your engine builder?

Casey Miles
248H

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Brad, congrats on getting under your first time out, that is great. Im sure you will find more.

Ryan

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Guys, nice going on the new car. Don't worry, you'll be fine.
This was just a long overdue course correction from NHRA. In the long run, you will appreciate Stk/E more because of it.
Some want to question the timing here, and that's a legitimate point. But don't think they would do something like this without running the numbers first.
One thing that doesn't get mentioned often is the manufacturers who pay out all the contingency awards, need a little boost once in a while, and they'll get one here.

Let me know if you need anything.

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save a bunch, just call the guy whose post is just above mine, buy his blown mustang and use rest of $12,000 to go racing... and be real fast - real soon > YAC's used race cars

jack mccarthy

you can go -.30 in division one for less than $12,000... cmon guys its not 4000 feet corrected up there.

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I quoted Mr. Perrone because he was to first to comment but this is in rely to all the people who agreed with his logic...

Let me start out by saying I in no way was complaining about not being fast enough our FIRST day testing. This entire post was meant to show that what NHRA has done with the indexes in this terrible econimic times has done nothing to improve the sport. I know racing takes work trust me. We now have 7 car in the family that we must maintain and we are at the track around 45 weekends a year... you dont have to lecture me on that aspect. I also know that there are things we can easily do or work with to get our particular combo under the index. This was not a personal gripe even though I used my situation as an example.

Do you people want the class you've worked so hard for so long in to just disappear because of lack of participation?? With the attitude you've come across with I doubt you will show up to a local bracket show with your "FAST"stocker. that would be embarrassing wouldn't it? What im saying is we need to find ways to make this class exciting to the person thinking about getting into the sport. We need to give them more of an incentive to put in all the work that we have put in to make our "stock" cars run fast enough. How many new young faces do you see in the class that will be able to support the class when the older stock/SS guys decide to retire from the sport? Instead of coming across like such and disrespectful a sshole maybe you should think of the future of the sport.... just a thought but what do I know im a kid with no money who doesn't work hard enough...

BH
Thanks to all the people who actually care about this sport and offer encouragement to new faces.. we will be fine i was just looking to see how many other people were in a similar situation due to the index changes..

Engine builder- Me... We got advise on what was legal and what was not. Nothing extremely trick(except lifters). local shop did the machine I assembled. not my first rodeo but definently nothing trick.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by James Perrone
You guys need to stop crying and get with the program..
Money helps but hard work and testing will get you there..
Work on you car or GO PLAY GOLF..
NHRA National Event is a Privledge
You gotta get grade points..build a CLASS CAR.
That why you wanna try this ,,ITs NOT Suppose to BE EASY
They are the only game in town,,[IHRA most any combo will do]
Spend some time And Money and Test
Or stick to your local bracket racing program
GET OFF THE COMPUTER
BITCHES AND WORK ON YOU CAR

What these guys are doing is more in the spirit of stock. Do it yourself and see how good you are. Anyone can buy performance. We need to encourage new blood.

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I do agree with James. I also can see where these two guys are coming from. I recently finished my graduate school master's program about a month ago. I know what it is like to race on a budget. That's why I spent the last two years bracket racing and running only a few stock eliminator races a year. On the other hand, there has been so much emphasis placed on these index changes. Some guys will just have to work on their cars a little harder. When my dad started racing again in 1987 the index was 11.52 for C/SA. 22 years later the index was 11.70. With the amount of technology thrown at these cars over the last 22 years, there is no reason the indexes should be the same as they were in the 80's. I think the indexes should have been lowered a long time ago.

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what made you think you would be under the index right away regardless of what the index is? it is not nhra's fault, your also to young to remember the two tenths they added to the indexes twenty years ago, if it was my call i would have lowered the indexes by .5 all this means is you need to work harder on your car!!! think things through and test stuff with proof of your results, keep records of what you are doing,only change one thing at a time , and work hard on your car you might just be amazed with what you find that can give you positive results.

if you think you should just go and build a car and run 1.00 under your crazy, some guys that post here have been at there cars for 30 years and still have to go at it full time to keep those car 1.00 under

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Brad, I agree and totally get what you are saying. I also , even though it makes it harder for me to get under- agree that after 20 years and all the rule changes that .3 is not bad. Encouraging new blood is always important, and the index drop had to happen, just not a good time- but there is never a good time.

Now - that being said- would all you finger pointers who say you need to "work harder "on your car please stop. I could lay under my car- take my trans out 15 times- make changes the converter,not watch TV - not spend time with my kids- not spend time with the wife, and unless I have the loot to pay to have that converter opened and played with- my car is not going to go any faster !!!! It takes TIME and MONEY-almost all of us have the time- if desire paid the bills I would be faster than anyone. I have and will work on my car to get it there- but without the cash to change something how is my effort alone going to make it faster ???? If you say move the cam and try jetting the carb- yea free hp- how much is it worth ? Just say it for what it is- work on your car and spend some money to make it faster- that is the real truth.

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nothing beats MONEY period.

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Some poeple on here crack me up! I am also building a 455 for my 71 buick that im curently running in crate motor. (bracket car) so i can do some NHRA racing G/SA, and I will have trouble running under index, but i will make it!
The people on here that want to criticize others, and act like every one should make 250 thow a year, and if we dont its our own fault make me wounder why the hell i even want to do this. My grandfather did it, my father is still struggling to do it, i guess thats why. Thats ok just run every one off!!!!!!!!!

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I have been working on mine for 3 years and finally got it .7 under. Did a lot of testing and listening. Some things worked and some did not. I did it all without bags full of money. Did a little here and there til it improved. Still doing the converter thing now in hopes of a couple more tenths. My goal is to go a second under..Good luck and be patient, It will work out for you.

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HawkbrosMav welcome. Do not listen to all the nonsense and whinning that goes on here. Surrond yourself with like thinking people who can help you, work hard toward you goal and go testing. By the way I agree with James, that guy works his tail off and like a lot of us, he is tired of the NHRA bashing. I think the lowering of the indexes is great for the majority of racers and should be used for performance motivation. Good luck and like many on this board happy to share my years wtih you if want or need help.

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I guess I still don't get it!! How does it make sense to make it difficult for young guy to race with us in Stock? There not any danger to us in class or Heads Up in eliminator! Every single entry in stock make it more likely that stock will continue and prosper! As to the sponsors, it is my understanding that all unclaimed cont. money reverts to NHRA and is still paid by them. If I'm not right please set me straight and I'll stand corrected! I worked my b*tt off twenty years on my car. The difference was I didn't have $6,000 Heads, $6,000 trans/convertor,,$10,000 short block, $1000 Rockers, $800 Lifters and the list goes on and on!!! I'm not any smarter or work harder now(Just the opposite on both those) ....... I'm just a whole lot poorer than I was!!! I won a heck of a lot more rounds back then when I didn't worry about the small fortune I had in my car. JUST MY OPINION John Irving:)

PS: If it wasn't so cold I'd be in the garage putting my new convertor in............Might pick up a .01!

P

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To the Real Class racers Thanks
Mr Hawk been in your shoes but i spent 15000 on my car turn key.
Car was worth it BUT IT WAS SLOW.
I knew better than trying to go national event right away .
To the theory OF MORE MONEY MAKE YOU FASTER..Hell yah it works ;;
This aint bracket racing This is STOCK [HEE HEE]
NHRA tells you what you can and cannot use
Its NHRA Racing learn along time ago They Make UP RULES AS THEY GO ALONG.
To the dumb *** crack about not Bracket Racing Thats Funny.
Nearest race track from my house is 130 mile away.You cant handle my EZ PASS BILL
I definatly RACE TOO MUCH
By the way I run G& H /SA Real Soft Class [HA HA]
The 3 tens hurts me cause the real fast guys WILL NEVER GET HP.
So I will never catch up
So look at it from my side I was a 1 second under car now Im 6 to 7 under now
I lost......BUT SO DID EVERYONE ELSE
Deal with it folks
I am

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A Privilege, LOL the NHRA is doing you a favor by letting the sportsman in. Some privilege, take 3 days off from work, get 2 or 3 time shots, pay through the *** to race, get **** on, mmm i could go on!

Hey my advice, enjoy the car, have fun, stay in school and get your education, then later in life you will be able to build the car of your dreams! In the mean time work hard, learn what the car wants and you will start to pick up et, also dont be afraid to make some friends at the track and i am sure you will pick up some tips here and there.

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Brad
I can relate. I have been building a super stocker for 5 years on and off and finaly got it out at thanksgiving race at infineon. Whent .55 under and was elated! only to find out I was 150 lbs light, oh well now probably .35 under. Then one day I wake up and lose.30. Talking about bummed out. Currently have trans apart, rear end apart, carb apart and more hoping to get back .20. If i can get it back soon pamona will be my debut for this car!

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I know Mike Jeffrey has under $10K in his V/SA car and it holds the national record.

When trying to race a class car on a budget you must choose your class wisely.

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nice car love them Buericks!!

Back here in D1 Lenny Williams has his running super fast!

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HawkbrosMav: Like others have said, it's not supposed to be easy. Like everything in life, if it was easy there would be little or no satisfaction in accomplishing it. When I started racing back in the '80's, it took me five years just to get my car to run the index, but I built my own motors, transmissions, rears, etc. At the time, I was also in my 20's with very little racing experience and not much cash to spend. Learn as much as you can, race and test as much as you can, and have a good time. It will pay off in the long run. My .02.

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Larry, both GOOD HEALTH and GOOD LUCK beat MONEY....I've seen it work out that way many, many times.....WJ