Pontiac SOHC 6 Stockers ?
 

Odd question, not that Im not up to my eyeballs in Alligators....

Has anyone seen (recently) or any famous SOHC 6 stockers ? Specifically the 4bbl version ?

Odd question, but Ive got a convertible Lemans with one that was to become a GTO Clone.....Now Im wondering....just thinking.....maybe Ill save it a few more years and do a build with my son.....10.5/1 cr.....pretty weak cam spec but maybe some duration and spin it like crazy and ????

Obviously the SOHC 6 had to be wrung out at one time or another, Im familiar with them so....just a thought...Seems like something "different" , but maybe no.

Seems to be a bit of potential in them...maybe.......

Natural O I think...at 215 rating.....

Re: Pontiac SOHC 6 Stockers ?
 

The Pontiac OHC six was a poor perfomer and suffered from some problems that quickly killed it.......wiped cams was at the top of the list....




You have less than 2 weeks to finish your car...test it somewhere and drive to California. Get back to work.....

Re: Pontiac SOHC 6 Stockers ?
 

Car is 5 minutes from Done now....shheshhh DAD...lol...(hes been snoring in the office for the last 5 hrs).....(less EFI computer) 2 header bolts to go and in the trailer it goes.....

I know the SOCH 6 was crap from a Detroit standpoint but the Sprint with the 4bbl and the 10.5/1 cr (not the base 6 but the "Sprint" 6)

Testing will be Sunday (?) somewhere, and on the way to Cali.....a "stopover" in TX land for some more testing and chassis setup.....

Well gotta run......time to put her on the scales now that the last bolt is in........

This (weighing her) is something I have looked VERY forward to, lets see how "cheap" on weight I was.....


Cheers

Chris

Re: Pontiac SOHC 6 Stockers ?
 

I worked as a flatrate mechanic in the mid 70's in a Pontiac dealer. Occasionally a "Sprint" came thru the door and in my stalls for repair.....I road tested everything I worked on and lets just say that the era was not a real good one quality or performancewise for GM.....I did work on a lot of Banditmobiles.......some had Olds motors.....some had Ponchos....many were black with T-Tops and they came std with leaks and rattles too.....:D:D

So your car went from having a lot of assembly details unfinished to done in a day! And your going to California from Ohio by way of Texas to make some runs first....Hmmmmm is all I can say.......

Re: Pontiac SOHC 6 Stockers ?
 

Well its stopping in Atlanta for the EFI system (computer) but thats really a swap over we had it running on our SRT8.We had it done there so we could work in Parralel and they had a "clone" chassis to work with. Theyve had that since last month, had the harness done and car dialed in in about 5 days and that included them writing the custom code for the crank and cam wheel on the Hemi.... Just gotta remap for the cam and c/r and headers. That way they Just gotta throw the harness in and put the Brake lines on.....but the harness is already built, brake lines are an easy 4 hrs.....if I smoke in between stretching my legs

The items that were an issue all came together today, shifter corrected, headers and collectors on, DS Loop redone and corrected, DS Back in, interior back in, and yep looking good (12 and 16 hr days are bonzo for getting work done Even had time to post here, and see who could play Dance Dance Revolution on the Scales the best :)

Cutting, welding, that I can do fast....and thats what it took.....all good.

I even got to "Sign" the engine when we put it back in the other day....:)

Ill probably throw a few runs under it Sunday, itll take Saturday to get all the Mapping.....Im gonna try to throw some runs under it Sunday...

SRT8 Challenger runs REAL nice with the manifold :D Im gonna put a straight axle in it like the DP and kill the Drive By wire so I can track it....Thats next Month...Ok...April.....Ill be "off" track by then and the old man can take and run around the country like a madman.....I can be back at the shop building our next evil project.....after my son finishes his Turbo Gas Powered wheelchair....I still wanna use it as the "Ultimate" pit vehicle , complete with Handicapped sticker .... what are they gonna do tell me I cant use my wheelchair ?

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4034/...2a4ae576_m.jpg
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4007/...109a755a8e.jpg

Picture
 

I thought that DP was white?

Re: Pontiac SOHC 6 Stockers ?
 

He painted it today too.......and still had time to watch Oprah....and Judge Judy


P.S. Atlanta is in Georgia.....Texas is a pretty good hike from Atlanta and Pomona is not just down the street either.....

Re: Pontiac SOHC 6 Stockers ?
 

Uh ohhhhh, what's the story Jerry.Orange??????
http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/j...n1945/chal.jpg

Re: Picture
 

It IS White.....we have a Orange SRT8 Challenger too.....

We had the FI system "Mocked Up" and the harness figured out on the SRT8 as a "Test Mule" as the Chassis is basically the same and the Motor crank and cam signals and engine sensors are all the same....You can see all the street gear on the Orange car......its bone stock.....for a minute :)

I drove the SRt8 down to atlanta DP manifold and extra gaskets in the trunk and let them have at it.......

That way they could do all that work in Parallel with us doing the rest, now that the DP build is done its time for the FI....and Off to Atlanta we go to have that done.

See zee orange one at Mike P's in Michigain.....with the DP Car...bad pic but we tried, it was raining so the DP didnt come out...

There was no way weda even though about Pomona if we couldnt do things at the same time as OUR dp work...the FI was an Overlap item....taken care of before it ever touches the DP.....

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2532/...063d816d0c.jpg

Re: Pontiac SOHC 6 Stockers ?
 

This saga is growing a life of it's own.Sorta like a Zane Gray cowboy novel.

To be continued......................................... .................................................. ........

Re: Pontiac SOHC 6 Stockers ?
 

More like Harry Potter. Wizards and magicians and always always another chapter. Something tells me "Pomona" won't be the last chapter. Jim

Re: Pontiac SOHC 6 Stockers ?
 

The 250/4bbl stick Firebird was a peppy little car. The 67 ,230 is the same HP@ 215

In any case, the rating is WAY too high to be competitive . 180 would be pushing it.
I doubt if they'd give you that much off it.

Re: Pontiac SOHC 6 Stockers ?
 

Thanks Mark.....

I looked again.....I didnt do the calc myself.....and well I thought the damm thing was 500 lighter....I dont know where I got the number.....actually I do, it was from the Old man guessin about 3 years ago.....at 3400+ , but its my fault for thinking it. I also thought the index was slower for O.....my bad....

Takes it from being interesting to being a pig. Id be lucky if I could get it very far under if at all without shooting the bank......

Now that the main Challenger stuff is done and well be tracking soon Im retrying to think of how to clear all our shop space out.....

Id like to "trim" things down. This is one project Ive been hauling around for several years. Nice body, flawless interior, and I guess thatll just get mothballed to my house garage until my son gets a little older, and well do a GTO clone like it was intended to be, it was to be a project with me and my dad, but well we have others now :) Now it can be my dad and son....

Looks like one day MY son will inherit some unfinished projects as well, my 49 plymouth high and migthy replica and a 68 lemans convertible.....oh well.....give him something to do after he outgrows his "motorcycle phase";)

Thanks Mark.......I do see it and I was so far off Im going to attribute it to lack of sleep and dropping a driveshaft on my head yesterday. (Sounded awesome though like a slugger hitting on an aluminum bat.....caaarrrrrraaaakkkkkk, as it smacked my forhead...lol

Hey dont know of any MINT 83 Challengers or Sapparos running around do ya :D

Re: Pontiac SOHC 6 Stockers ?
 

Tom Langdon had a good running SOHC Pontiac 6 in modified way back when. He is retired from GM now and has a business going for inline engines. He can be reached at
http://www.stoveboltengineco.com/

Re: Pontiac SOHC 6 Stockers ?
 

More egg deposited on the faces of the "naysayers" lurking here....gotta love it. :D WJ

Re: Pontiac SOHC 6 Stockers ?
 

Eggs Benedict with Hollenaise sauce ;)

And to all the Naysayers....Im in ATLANTA with Dad and Dragpak in tow.......FI, then testing.... ! HAH....

Re: Pontiac SOHC 6 Stockers ?
 

THANK you......I will give him a call tommorow.

He should be just the guy to tell me if its a pig or got potential....

My son wants a Corvette for his first car, but a GTO convertible will "suffice" he said.....

Hes going to be doing all the work to either to get it ready....his chops.

Personally I think it would make a neat stocker.

And since its in the corral already and prepped for paint and reassembly....not a big deal, except the driveline.

Maybe he knows how bad a pig it may be, or how much potential, but I cant see it ever running a second under......ever......that seems like fantasy for that combo at 3400+.....he probably has forgotten more than Ill ever know about a SOHC 6.....

Re: Pontiac SOHC 6 Stockers ?
 

Drooze, you're going to run into "issues" with the head and intake and parts availibility. Contrary to popular belief, they're not a 6 cyl Chevy with a different head.

Re: Pontiac SOHC 6 Stockers ?
 

BTW, that 's a 2 speed car.

Also Modified was ci to weight. Stock is hp to weight. Whole different deal.

Re: Pontiac SOHC 6 Stockers ?
 

Mark,

You are right again ........

Billy,

Those engine parts are very rare, ask the collectors...

Re: Pontiac SOHC 6 Stockers ?
 

So someone is interested in the one Ive got ? Complete with emblems :)

The engine I havent been into.....its locked , looks like from sitting, it sat for 25 years in dry storage in Florida.....interior immaculate, top damaged in storage, no rust. I also have a buddy who pulled one from his firechicken years ago....He since sold the car and the new owner didnt want it...The trans on these I know is a 2 speed but not a glide, but I could sub a glide....

Hell maybe I should buy his motor for the whopping 300 he wants, and pop em on ebay :) Buy something I want......more...

Today I found one here in Atlanta, been looking 2 years for one even for sale.....havent seen but 1 other.....so a rust free 83 Challenger here I come ! Thatll complete the "unholy trininty" of Challengers.....



You are right again ........

Billy,

Those engine parts are very rare, ask the collectors...[/QUOTE]

Re: Pontiac SOHC 6 Stockers ?
 

I'm still looking for the Pontiac OHC items in the link above.

I'm here waiting to hear how good a combo these are.....Got my bib on...

Re: Pontiac SOHC 6 Stockers ?
 

What link ? What do you mean "looking" ? As in to buy ? Or at the track ? Or in my hairbrained opinion ? I might sell the engine.......might....

I think 320+ hp is doable from one without issue the Sohc 6, coating on the cam, long duration makes it a no brainer.......but crap.....thatll get me nowhere in this car I dont think with the index on it........but there are other engine combos , I just dont have any and well.....not like those havent been done to death.....I wont say anyone can do a V8.....but maybe the thing is everyone does......

But I thought I found my Challenger, turns out its got rust. BAH...., I said I thought 2 under....You thought 1 .... Ill split the difference and call it 1.5 when I get my hands on one (if, not like I havent been looking for over a year).......

Re: Pontiac SOHC 6 Stockers ?
 

My 67 Firebird convertible is an origional Sprint car. I have the complete motor and 3 speed manual trans in the shop. When I found the car in 1986 it was sitting in a field with sunflowers growing up thru the engine bay. Motor and trans was in owners barn. He had taken it out years earlier and put in little chevy 6 for his daughter after several tickets. I restored car and put the OHC motor back in. Parts were tought to find then, have not even looked for years.
I took it to the Nat. Pontiac meet in Kansas City a couple of years after that. Hundreds of cars, and only a handful of OHC's.
I know some people will freak when they find out that I have turned it into a stocker and even worse, with a chevy crate motor in it for now... I do have a Pontiac 400 with the 67 only "670" heads and proper intake, but that motor will take a little while... will hopefully have it ready to race in another month with crate motor.
I did drive the car for a few years with the OHC. Was a fun little motor. Would outrun most mid 70's smog camaros and birds... not that I ever "street raced" -:) when in highschool or college.

One thing I never found was the proper hood emblems for my car... Hood has the holes for them, and owner did not know what happened to them.

Should see me on the qualifying sheets in div 4 IHRA soon!

Ken

Re: Pontiac SOHC 6 Stockers ?
 

Good luck w/your Firebird stocker, Ken. If the right person reads this post, I'll bet they could lead you to a correct pair of OHC Sprint hood emblems as well---so don't fill-in those holes! That car is surely worth some good $$ w/correct powertrain.:eek: WJ

Re: Pontiac SOHC 6 Stockers ?
 

More info @
http://sohcsix.yuku.com/

Re: Pontiac SOHC 6 Stockers ?
 

Thanks WJ

Byron, cool website - thanks. Sure could have used that when I was doing this car first time... course, in late 80's I did not have a computer, let alone access to the web! I have saved the site... one more place for me to spend time!

Ken

Re: Pontiac SOHC 6 Stockers ?
 

I have the hood emblems and the hood.I can take some pics if you`re interested in them.

Re: Pontiac SOHC 6 Stockers ?
 

I have a question , maybe someone can get me in the ballpark.

I have a '69 firebird with one of these 6 cyl OHC engines, the small carb version. The engine is complete and there is an automatic trans in the car, all is hooked up and was alledgedly running and the engine had been rebuilt. Any ideas on what the engine and trans is worth?
Since i don't know for a fact it was rebuilt even though it is very clean and looks fresh, I would only attach a value to it as being complete and rebuildable.

Thanks in advance!

Re: Pontiac SOHC 6 Stockers ?
 

Well since the what its worth is what someone is willing to pay thing, I picked up one about 2 years ago at the scrapyard.

I was going to do ? with it, but for $50 I couldnt pass it up.

Got it home it was locked , threw it and the trans on ebay as is, saying that it was locked I got $500 for the engine and trans, but it was complete to the air cleaner. That one was the small carb version not the 4bbl like the Lemans has. The guy oddly bought it to rebuild it and put it in a 40 ? Pontiac coupe...wanted something different.

Cheers

Chris

Re: Pontiac SOHC 6 Stockers ?
 

I am not going to hijack this post (AGAIN), but there is one more question that Mark, or someone more knowledgeable than myself might answer for me. I've been curious about this for several years, and this would seem to be an ample opportunity to get this "yes or no" question answered.

With your permission, here goes...

NHRA, in a ruling on a late model Corvette a few years back, allowed (for Stock Eliminator) the complete removal of the transaxle, which was, naturally, OEM in the rear of the car, and allowed the installation of a conventional automatic transmission (conventional, as in Camaro-style) bolted to the block with a normal Chevy bell housing, and the installation of a "live axle" (probably 12-bolt) rear axle assembly, complete.
This rolling, driveline-freak, was campaigned as a legal Stock Eliminator car for awhile.

The owner may have been Stan White, a Div. IV racer. Not sure about that...

My question is this:

Since NHRA allowed this sort of "Franken-tranny" funny business for that Corvette, do you think that permission for a similar transformation could be successfully obtained from NHRA, using a transaxle-equipped 1963 Tempest 326 V8, for Stock Eliminator?

Those cars seemingly have potential with the 4bbl motor for Stock, but the swing axles and Corvair-based transaxle make it a drivetrain nightmare; ostensibly, an accident looking for a place to happen.

I'd think that NHRA would approve it if only on a safety-related basis. Swing axles are not something you want to break... and these would be highly suspect, given the tires and track-prep we have today.

The aforementioned Corvette seemingly set the precedent; do you think that NHRA would go for the same switchero in a Temoest, and, if not, why not???

Or, do I already know the answer to that last question/?? LOL!

Now, back to your normally-scheduled programming....

Re: Pontiac SOHC 6 Stockers ?
 

Adam,

I might be interested in the emblems. I am putting a 400 hood on for stock class, but would always be nice to have some if I ever change it back to origional...
Please send me some pic's and let me know how much you want for them.

email is kegracing@yahoo.com

thanks

Ken

Re: Pontiac SOHC 6 Stockers ?
 

Im curious as to what you mean by "transaxle" If you mean independent rear suspension it can be changed to a solid axle.

The corvettes I am familiar with (C3 and before) had only an IRS...not a transaxle.

Corvairs do, but thats a different animal......

My understanding is as long as the stock shock and spring locations are used its legal.......IF that can be done with a Transverse leaf on the early vettes or ? on the newer I dont know......

But independent rear suspension isnt a transaxle in my book.....

Could you legally replace it on a Tempest ? I dono....can you use the stock shock and spring location ?

Here is the rule.....

"

Swing axle differential may be replaced with conventional housing;
stock trailing arms must be retained, may be beefed up and
adapted to housing, must retain transverse spring. Must install
Panhard bar. Frame may be notched for driveshaft clearance.
Distance between OEM backing plates and OEM wheelbase must

be maintained.
"

Re: Pontiac SOHC 6 Stockers ?
 

Drooze,

Beginning in 1961 (or, was it 1960? My recollection is so fuzzy... sorry), Tempests were built with a Corvair-like transaxle that had swing axles like the Corvairs of the day did. The power was transmitted from the crankshaft in the front of the car, to the transaxle, in the rear of the car, by what most laymen called a "rope." a flexible piece of somethingorother that was able to bend a certain amount to "sowbelly" under the floorpan, in the absence of a conventional driveshaft tunnel. The cars with this system (all Tempests through 1963) had the clutch, or converter,(if an automatic) attached to the front of the transaxle case, in the back of the car (I'm not making this up....)

The transaxle unit was a Corvair-type unit, with swing axles. Unsafe at any speed.... LOL!

Swing axles are different from IRS in that an IRS system has two U-Joints on each axle, so that camber is not necessarily relative to the axle's position in its travel up and down. Swing axless create a situation wherein, the attached wheel's camber is a slave to the vertical position of the wheel in its travel, because it's "hinged" at the axle's end (at the center of the car.) This creates overt and potentially-dangerous changes in camber as the wheel travels up and down due to road irregularities, etc... Not good. Additionally, if the axle snaps, the wheel goes completly awry because the axle is one of the locating components.. sort of triangulating the location process. Should it break, the wheel can (and, will) fold up under the car like a landing gear on an airplane that has "fold-up" landing gear.

Corvettes never had swing axles; they went directly from the live axle 1962 models to the IRS, in 1963.

But in the recent past, the Corvette's drivetrain configuration has been redesigned, and has moved the transmission to the area just in front of the pinion gear, and has incorporated the clutch (or, converter,) the transmission case, and the differential housing all in one unit... a "transaxle" that incorporates an IRS system.

All that gee-whiz wizardry apparently doesn't do much for the drag racing capabilities of the car, for whatever reason, so a Stock Eliminator car was approved by NHRA, that allowed moving the transmission back to the front location, attached to the engine, and the transaxle care and its attendant IRS components were changed to a live axle (probably a 12-bolt housing andthe necessary gears.)

No more transaxle... just old-fashioned drivetrain pieces.


I am wondering whether the '63 Tempest, which has a transaxle AND swing axles, might not be approved by NHRA, since the Corvette got approval for such a change.

Am I nuts for thinking this might be feasible?

If they (NHRA) fail to approve it, after giving the late-model Corvettes the nod to make this switch, I'd sure like to be there to hear the rationalizations flow, as they squirm like a worm on a hot griddle, trying to justify why that what's good for the goose is NOT good for the gander, in this case.

Re: Pontiac SOHC 6 Stockers ?
 

Bill, are you shooruh your info on the '63 Tempest's is correct? How can you be so shooruh? And I say this with all due respect, but I heard Mona Lisa Vito swear under oath that 1963 Pontiac Tempest's have "independant reera suspension". Maybe it was just the one's painted metallic Mint Green paint. What a f*****g night mayrah!

Div.1 guys, please don't hesitate to correct my spelling. There was a time when I believed you all sounded like Sergei Dennebaum aka 'the Mad Russian'. Little did I know.

Yes, Your Honor. I plead guilty to having watched MCV more times than the Law allows. And, I will continue to do so.

Re: Pontiac SOHC 6 Stockers ?
 

Ken,

To the best of my recollection, at that point in time...

The most fascinating examples were the ones that were built with the 421, 405 HP dual-quad "AFX" motor. They built just a few of these, both coupes and wagons, before the front office dropped the hammer on racing, and stopped building the Z-11 Chevys and these Tempeats (along with the Swiss Cheese Catalinas.

Those few Tempests that were campagned by Arnie Beswick, Hayden Proffitt, et al, had 4-speed automativc transaxles that were, from all reports, available with either a torque converter OR a clutch and flywheel, both in the rear. They were fashioned from TWO Corvair Powerglide transaxles, and had great, close ratios, and were fully automatic.

They were blindingly fast, but proved to be disappointingly unreliable.

Eventually, a lot of them were replaced by a conventional, Dual-Range Hydramatic, bolted to the engine, a conventional driveshaft, and a complete Pontiac live axle.

It was a great idea, but doomed from the start because of the inherent weakness of the Corvair-based components.

Too bad; hardly any of these 4-speed transaxle cars remain; I have heard of only one, complete, original car, left.

Re: Pontiac SOHC 6 Stockers ?
 

Bill, the clutch was in the conventional location on the early Tempests.
The automatic just had an adapter there, and the torque converter was in the back ,behind the differential.. Kind of opposite to the Corvair.

The driveshaft was a steel bar, held in the bowed position by support bearings

Re: Pontiac SOHC 6 Stockers ?
 

Thanks, Markl!!! I KNEW you'd have the straight scoop!!!