Legal Stocker?
 

I ran across this article on another website. They claim the car is a legal for stock. Is that true?

http://www.oldhippie.com/forums/drag...emi-savoy.html

Travis

(Disclaimer: Opinions and questions expressed by me on this forum are exactly that, my opinions and questions.)

Re: Legal Stocker?
 

It has AA/SA on the window, it has to be legal :).

Re: Legal Stocker?
 

"Doors (with roll down glass), bumpers, fenders, and decklid are fiberglass. "

Was this an EXTREMELY rare option?

Re: Legal Stocker?
 

IHRA legal.

Re: Legal Stocker?
 

Not for NHRA for sure and not sure about deck lid but fenders and hood are legal in IHRA

Re: Legal Stocker?
 

NSS is the only place the car will be legal to race until the fiberglass parts get replaced with correct items.

Re: Legal Stocker?
 

I understand about them allowing fiberglass fenders and hood to replace OEM aluminum parts on the early Mopars but to start allowing fiberglass bumpers, decklid, and doors? Remember, we are talking Stock here.

Travis

(Disclaimer: Opinions and questions expressed on this forum by me are exactly that, my opinions and questions.)

Re: Legal Stocker?
 

If the MoPar cars had Alum.(63 and 64 cars) parts then it could be replaced with QUALITY fiberglass. Not the lite wt. bracket racer junk. That means Fenders, Hoods, AND Doors (64 Hemi cars only had alum. doors but not a max wedge car). Bumpers are another story as they were steel although a lot thinner than OEM street cars but hey....its been 8 or 9 years since I left so who knows what they are allowing today. No trunk lids were alum. so no fiberglass allowed there. Remember that AA/S is a 7.00 lb class in IHRA. Not a 7.5 pound class as in NHRA.

Re: Legal Stocker?
 

Its really only legal for NSS because the rules say Must LOOK oem and doors and deck not legal for IHRA either, just hood and fenders and they have to be a certain thickness also.

Re: Legal Stocker?
 

Thank you Terry, we posted at the same time.

Re: Legal Stocker?
 

3636 was John McCormack's number when he raced it in IHRA AA/SA in 2003.

Re: Legal Stocker?
 

In other words you may build a "CLONE" of an alum. equiped MoPar using the CORRECT fiberglass replacement parts in place of the very rare and expensive alum. componets using what only what came on the alum cars. If it is a 64 HEMI (2 door post) car then you could use the doors. If its a 63-64 Max wedge car then its just the hood, scoop, and fenders, and lower splash panel under the front bumper. This was all decided on years(about 12 years ago) ago with Jack McCormicks and MoPar performance input. Because of the 7.00 pound break the X ram (dual quad) Hemi is allowed to run using the reduced HP (470 HP ?) rating that IHRA has for this combo. Good competition for a 64 427 Hi Rise T- Bolt. By the way I talked to Dan Davorak a couple of weeks ago and he plans running his 64 Hemi car in IHRA AA/SA as soon as he can get used to driving with one leg. He wants to let everyone know he is still alive and kicking.
The GOOD fiberglass fenders and hood plus front and rear (alum on this car) bumpers are allowed IN FIBERGLASS if someone wanted to clone a 1963 Z-11 Chev. bench seat Impala. Not likely though as its still a S/S only combo and engine parts are as rare as chicken lips.

Re: Legal Stocker?
 

The car is mine -- and while I run NSS and considered using it as a backup car (since changed my mind) in a Championship Series -- I'm assured by Jack McCormick (in a call yesterday) that the car is 100% IHRA legal for SS/SA. Jack has been around racing for a long time and it is doubtful that he and John would have built a car that wasn't legal for the class they were running.

I've been going through the car freshening some things up -- and it was built very well.

http://www.oldhippie.com/photos/data..._front_med.jpg

Re: Legal Stocker?
 

I'm assumming you mean AA/SA although there was a SS/SA in the early to mid 60's.

Re: Legal Stocker?
 

My bad -- brain fart.

http://www.risesales.com/pages/Dragr...mccormack.html

Re: Legal Stocker?
 

NSS CLASSES: Topless cars prohibited. Lightweight replacement parts permitted for fenders, hood, doors, deck lid, and bumpers. External modifications of any body panel that will alter the stock bodyline is prohibited. The body must be finished & painted.

FX CLASSES: Topless cars prohibited. Lightweight replacement parts permitted for fenders, hood, doors, deck lid, and bumpers. External modifications of any body panel that will alter the stock bodyline is prohibited. Hoods are optional. The body must be finished & painted.

From the 2010 NMCA Nostalgia Super Stock Rules

Re: Legal Stocker?
 

great car, best of luck!

Re: Legal Stocker?
 

Jacks car is/was legal for AA/S and AA/SA unless something has been changed. Maybe just the bumpers and the trunk lid????? An easy fix if thats the case. When you tech in at an IHRA race be sure to have it done by Danny Waters Sr. or Hank Blankinship. Both great guys and very well informed with stockers. What is SS/SA?

Re: Legal Stocker?
 

great... now he can have his *** kicked by a herd of mustangs that can go 9.20 anytime they wanna...

captain jack

but nice car, and cool too :)

Re: Legal Stocker?
 

The car is an IHRA car. And in IHRA the Mustangs go in AA/FIA.

http://www.ihra.com/article/5603.html

7/29/09

Addition to Fuel Injection Classes: AA/FI and AA/FIA are added to the class structure for Stock Eliminator. The 2 classes are reserved for 2008 and later accepted factory muscle cars. No existing FI cars may remove weight and enter this class.

Class Break is 7.50 to 7.99. Class Index is 10.85 1/4 mile and 7.00 1/8 mile.

Re: Legal Stocker?
 

Good move for IHRA. Now the blown Mustangs are insulated from the "normal" muscle cars and they can kick thier own butts IF any ever show up.

Re: Legal Stocker?
 

The 63 Dodges had aluminum bumpers, The 64 Dodge was paper thin steel with aluminum brackets, I owned both. The stock 64 Dodge bumper and brackets I had weighed 68lbs, the light weight with aluminum brackets was 15 lbs. The lightweight bumper was extremely rigid, not flimsy at all. Back in the early to mid eighties I was living with my mom and she walked into the spare bedroom upstairs one time to see the whole front of a 64 Dodge completely assembled, she wasn't pleased, Paul.

Re: Legal Stocker?
 

Not true; however, there was S/SA (Super Stock Automatic) when the entire eliminator was comprised of two classes.

Re: Legal Stocker?
 

There was a SS/SA (and SS/S for the sticks) in 1962 and a S/SA for the year old cars. The letter designation was later changed to just S/S stick and S/SA for the autos.

Re: Legal Stocker?
 

You are correct Paul......I was just thinking about "Big KaHunas" car being a Plymouth. Its a bitch getting old.....LOL.

Re: Legal Stocker?
 

How about the alum. radiator and the Barton intake lid?

Re: Legal Stocker?
 

Alum. stock replacement radiators are legal in ALL IHRA stockers. Reason......some older units are almost impossable to find or recore. Its cheaper to use a stock alum replacement. The difference in wt. is next to nothing. Common sense prevails. The intake manifold was allowed by Mike Baker as I had nothing to do with that decision as I retired. It to makes sense as try finding a stock OEM cross ram HEMI intake manifold that hasnt been dicked with after all of these years. The MoPar performance Hemi part is much less expensive and easy to obtain. Beats payibg several thousand dollars for an OEM intake If you could find one. I know.....But its not stock but what is these days. Its not stock that counts but what is allowed by the racing association. Look at the single 4 barrle manifold that NHRA allowed on the Hemi cars like Bartons and others. Its no where near like the original piece IF you could ever find one and take out a mortgage to pay for it. Not everyone racing these Hemi cars is a multi millionare.

Re: Legal Stocker?
 

IHRA told me I could use the fiberglass parts on my '64 Max Wedge but they had to be obtained from a certain manufacture but (get this) they didn't know who it was.

Does anyone out there know who makes these parts?

Appreciate the help,

JimR

Re: Legal Stocker?
 

Travis, I asked a couple of years ago about Glass replacement parts for Al cars.
Today Aluminum Heads are allowed on many Fords, Chevy and aftermarket manifolds and trans 3 speeds instead of 2 speeds.
If No aluminum Fenders are being made or Hoods or Fenders I am confused as to Why Stock Appearing Kevlar, Fiberglass parts are not allowed in NHRA. Is it a Chrysler deal to prevent other cars coming back to eliminator? Is it just slow thinking? on the part of NHRA? If Dove Heads, Edelbrock Heads are on the motor how is the Aluminum fender making the car more stock or SS qualified?

Re: Legal Stocker?
 

I mentioned this before on this forum. Its been to long ago for me to remember the companys name and I doubt there is anyone left working at IHRA who remembers when this became legal and what company was involved. Mike Baker (National Tech Director) was more involved with the Pro cars and I was about the only one who really cared about stock and super stock at that time. Call Jack McCormick (he was involved with this decision many years ago along with people who worked at MoPar performance but I doubt those guys are still around either.) or Phil Baldiccino (570-923-0176) anytime as he runs his own business in the mountians of Penn. He will answer unless he just happens to be on his weekly grocery run. Phil is probably the easiest to get on the phone. Phill is a great guy and a true Max Wedge racer and fan. Phil uses the companys fiberglass on his 63 Max Wedge and is a hard core IHRA stock eliminator racer.

Re: Legal Stocker?
 

Dick.......Slow thinking on NHRA's part is the correct answer.

Re: Legal Stocker?
 

"Super Stock/Stick Automatic"?

Got a photo to verify that one?

Re: Legal Stocker?
 

NO Bret....... SS/S for the stick cars and SS/SA for the automatic cars in 1962. Hayden Proffits 409 (stick) was SS/S. The S/S and S/SA classes was for the year old cars like a 61 SD Pontiac like Carol and Lloyd Cox's car and classes on down from those. Plenty of photos in my old magazines and on the H.A.M.B. Jr. stock site. I dont have a scanner.

Re: Legal Stocker?
 

X TECH MAN The magnesium cross ram manifolds are available in Chrysler licensed reproductions through A&A Transmission and several retail outlets like Mancini Racing. They're expensive, but cheaper by several hundred $ than an original in good shape. As for David Barton's manifold, it's an M-1 crate engine piece that's nearly identical to the original Nascar piece. You may have it confused with the 'bathtub' long track manifold that is not approved in stock. Steve

Re: Legal Stocker?
 

I am familiar with the reproduction Hemi Intakes made by A&A but I dont know if IHRA has approved them or not. Its been about 8 or 9 years since I worked for them. I suggest anyone interested in running one get approval before spending thier money.

Re: Legal Stocker?
 

Re: Legal Stocker?
 

Ahhh...you guys were referring to SUPER Super Stock/Stick and the equivalent automatic class, Super Super Stock Automatic.

Gotta admit, I forgot about that one. They incorporated the two new-model classes into the eliminator and then dropped the obviously redundant name for '63. This also happened right after the AHRA (and later that year, NHRA) made SS the only category in which the eliminator designation came before the class designation in deference to the poor SSA guys who spent half a year with unflattering letters on the windows.

Good job shootin' me down! (Seriously!)

Re: Legal Stocker?
 

Travis

You must remember one of those names of the 1962 winners list??
Paul Williams, Right after he got caught with the fuel he got a new name at
The old Magnolia Drag Strip (OHIO) FUELER he has lived with that name since.

Hammer

Re: Legal Stocker?
 

Dick, When you “asked” about ‘glass replacement parts for aluminum cars did you include your type of car you were racing that needed to replace the aluminum parts? Did you include facts stating that you were at a disadvantage in the class you were racing to need the ‘glass parts to replace aluminum parts?

The actual racers that asked for a 3-speed automatic trans to replace a 2-speed trans they were limited to DID included their car number and class, the races they ran, and facts showing ET’s where they could not compete against cars built with 3-speeds.

The actual racers that asked for aluminum heads to replace cast iron heads DID included their car number and class, the races they ran, and information showing the company name and part # of the head they wanted to be allowed as a replacement. A new head was then submitted and checked before approval.

There are 2 types of letters to send in to get something approved. A generic version of each follow:

...Dear Sirs: I do not race in Stock or SS and never intend to, however I would like to see fiberglass parts be allowed to replace high dollar aluminum body parts because I think it would be really neat to watch those old rare factory racecars run again. Thank you

...Dear Sirs: I currently race in S/S (number XXXX, class XX) and am having a hard time locating heads to fit my engine. Company XYZ makes an aluminum replacement head part #xxxxxxx that is similar to the head I use. I would like to have that company submit the head to you for comparison to the OEM head in hopes of getting it accepted as a replacement for my engine. Thank you

Now Dick, which letter do you think will get action? If someone wants something approved, there is a correct way to do it.

Travis

(Disclaimer: Opinions expressed by me on this forum are exactly that, my opinions.)

Re: Legal Stocker?
 

Travis, Very Good discussion. Very good examples. As I have no car to question I am sure my input or question is of lessor value to the committee.
I think and third letter example should be included in your discussion though.
Dear Sir. I am a manufacturer and wish to produce a product for profit which is similar to the parts used on cars being raced in Stock or SS in NHRA classes. I wish them to be allowed as a replacement part and legal. They will be Aluminum instead of Steel. THey will be Higher quality due to todays technology. I am a major Sponsor.
or....4) Dear Sir, I have raced 35 Years in NHRA and am familiar with the evolution of the rules regarding S and SS. In my opinion the allowance of replacement Engine parts of Aluminum for steel, Aftermarket reproductions for original parts is progress.
.....Many interesting SS and S cars from the 60s were very limited in production from the factory with ALUMINUM body parts. Today parts are not available in Quantity to allow expanded numbers of participant s with these cars. Prices for the 50 original sets prevent racers in parallel racing programs from Crossing over and participating in NHRA S AND SS classes. THese are potential entries to enlarge the racer pool for our events. I suggest consideration of allowing Kevlar reproduction parts for Fenders, Doors, Hoods, Bumpers for parts originally produced only in Aluminum from the factory to see more of these Classic S and SS cars enter NHRA events.
I think this might also be a reasonable request letter. Fairly close to the letter I submitted.
Again Thanks Travis.