Clutchless transmission permitted in S/S
 

As of today's date 2/08/2010, posted in NHRA.com 2010 rule amendments, clutchless transmissions are permitted in S/S. This rule is in effect for the Winternationals.

For those interested, there is NO rule amendment that would allow clutchless transmissions in STOCK. Therefore the 2010 NHRA rulebook still stands as printed.

STOCK: Clutchless transmissions prohibited.


Travis

(Disclaimer: Opinions expressed and threads started by me on this forum are exactly that, my opinions and threads.)

Re: Clutchless transmission permitted in S/S
 

I feel that rules that apply to super stock for transmissions and rear ends should apply in stock.

Re: Clutchless transmission permitted in S/S
 

travis,i hope your correct,but i don't:) see it posted on nhra!

Re: Clutchless transmission permitted in S/S
 

Rich , I just forwarded you the link from the NHRA Website.

Re: Clutchless transmission permitted in S/S
 

Yeeeeee Hawwwww! From someone that drives one this is a great decision. This may encourage more standards in the class. The only problem I see is driving through the pits, unless you have a lenco. Are there any restrictions on type, i.e. g-force, liberty, jerico, lenco etc? Are all allowed? Thank you NHRA!!!!!!

Re: Clutchless transmission permitted in S/S
 

SECTION 10 – SUPERSTOCK
Page 10.5
Section 10A – Super Stock
DRIVETRAIN: 2
TRANSMISSION, Manual (2/8/10)
OEM or NHRA-accepted aftermarket transmissions having same number of forward
speeds (O.D. gear not required) as original, and reverse, may be used. All gear changes
must result from direct action by the driver. Pneumatic, hydraulic, electric, etc. shifters
prohibited. Floor shift-conversion kits permitted. Clutchless transmissions permitted.
If any engine/manual transmission combination is listed in the class blueprint specification as
being available with only a three-speed manual transmission, it may be replaced with
any four-speed manual transmission. See General Regulations 2:12.

Note: I deleted the "red lined" language as this does not show on a cut / paste.
Here is the direct language (see page 16):
http://www.nhra.com/UserFiles/file/2...Amendments.pdf

Re: Clutchless transmission permitted in S/S
 

do planetary trans get soft auto index?

Re: Clutchless transmission permitted in S/S
 

I thought this rule has been in affect for year, as I've watched a lot of stick cars (and I'm from a stick shift family) and the old story went you always seen the wheelie bars moving during each shift change, well i know of a bunch that did not have no movement. Bet there will be a bunch of AH cars becoming sticks.

Re: Clutchless transmission permitted in S/S
 

They were just really good at shifting...wink, wink!

IMO, i think it's a good equalizer to the autos. it was pretty SH!**Y how they went about it. why is there still a weight break for autos. get rid of that!

Re: Clutchless transmission permitted in S/S
 

I've wondered something for awhile I've read that when P/S switched to Lenco's that Ronnie Sox slowed down when he went to Lenco,so is it possible Ronnie Sox was shifting without clutch when maybe hardly anyone else was or had even tried?I do know people shifted crash boxes and pro shifted trans without clutch. This is in no way intended to be a negative thing against Ronnie Sox he was excellent driver and true pioneer and evidently they had something figured out if they could go faster with clutch type trans over Lenco.Which I know Lenco has more drag than non planetary trans.but it's still impressive to go faster with factory style 4 speed than Lenco.
Again nothing against Ronnie Sox just trying to figure out and did any other drivers slow down when they changed to planetary trans?
Mike Taylor3601

Re: Clutchless transmission permitted in S/S
 

Ronnie Sox was just that good. He was a natural driver.The reason for the rule change is that a few certain stick drivers who couldnt drive a nail with a hammer whinned loud enough and were tight with "The Man" in Calif. !

Re: Clutchless transmission permitted in S/S
 

Doesn't Danny Garcia have a relative that drives a AA/AH car?

Re: Clutchless transmission permitted in S/S
 

Well, they just made a lot of stick cars legal.:D

Re: Clutchless transmission permitted in S/S
 

Makes you wonder when he ordered his clutchless trans.

Re: Clutchless transmission permitted in S/S
 

Ed for my b-day I want a clutchless trans. Bring it with you to Crandall in march we will throw it in!!!! LOL

Re: Clutchless transmission permitted in S/S
 

Yepper from what I heard.....now you know WHY the rule change.

Re: Clutchless transmission permitted in S/S
 

Crap like this is exactly why the SS class is out of control and costs a pile of $$ to run.

Re: Clutchless transmission permitted in S/S
 

Another case of NHRA shooting themselves in the foot. More money spent on clutchless transmissions equals less money to spend going to races which equals lower car counts at the points meets and less popular national events. Most racers are just average Joes with limited budgets and if you have to spend money on parts, you dont have as much traveling money. Some times many of their decisions aren't too well thought out.

Re: Clutchless transmission permitted in S/S
 

I agree with you 100%. I believe that if people want to spend this type of money in a sort of "stock/super stock class" that the factory experimental category would thrive one again.

Re: Clutchless transmission permitted in S/S
 

economic stimulus for transmission mfgs that about it as far as money goes look in pits the lowest classed stocker to the first time guys crude s/st car[no offense] most of them have more in tow rigs than average joe has in his house. they dont care about the potential expenditures on the competitors and why shoud they when all they see is cubic$$$$$

Re: Clutchless transmission permitted in S/S
 

i do not think they should get rid of auto weight breaks, i still think a clutch car is quicker than an auto, espescially a 2 speed. comp cars get 250 and indexes are virtually the same, tell me why and where i am wrong.we ran a 9.5 car with 2 speed and it was .26 slower than our 11 lbs. 4 speed car , and yes we were using the clutch between each gear, and .35 slower going clutchless , same exact engine combo. let the games begin.

Re: Clutchless transmission permitted in S/S
 

were the weight break should change is in SS/AH, either everybody races at 3210 or 3170, personally i think if the weight doesn't get changed you will see a bunch of sticks in Cuda's & Darts.
It's been proven these transmissions are fast and maybe faster now

ps I don't like the rule change, but I'm just a fan.

Re: Clutchless transmission permitted in S/S
 

Randy,

The national records are as follows and I would respectfully submit this is our best barometer for comparing potential performance .

SS/A 8.78 SS/AA 8.61
SS/B 8.97 SS/BA 8.84
SS/C 9.18 SS/CA 9.00
SS/D 9.28 SS/DA 9.12
SS/E 9.48 SS/EA 9.04
SS/F 9.59 SS/FA 9.26
SS/G 9.48 SS/GA 9.53
SS/H 9.74 SS/HA 9.63
SS/I 9.76 SS/IA 9.54
SS/J 9.94 SS/JA 9.93

So, if you remove SS/E & SS/F from the list to create a truer median #, you still have the automatics with a .116/sec advantage, yet there is at least a .1 index advantage for the autos and in some cases .2 Really?

I would have done a GT comparison, but there are too many minimums. I suppose it must be because the sticks are so attractive to everyone.

I always hear how if somebody put a stick in their car it would go faster, but clearly the records tell a different tale. I think most people would be sorely disappointed after losing a tenth on the index, losing their radial tires and having the overwhelming joy of learning how to work on their clutches.

P.S. The clutchless tranmission is worth .02 NOT .1. Even up the indexes and let's race. Seriously, why not?

Re: Clutchless transmission permitted in S/S
 

well put Mike some of those autos that are not as fast as sticks may be so to keep their hp factor safe as their indexes are substantially slower. MAKE EM ALL THE SAME AND LETS GET IT ON.

Re: Clutchless transmission permitted in S/S
 

Yup, Super Stock is becoming Comp and Stock is becoming Super Stock.

Re: Clutchless transmission permitted in S/S
 

The have nots just fell a little farther behind.

Re: Clutchless transmission permitted in S/S
 

amen brother!

Re: Clutchless transmission permitted in S/S
 

Yes, and most of them don't have a clue as to how far behind they really are.

Re: Clutchless transmission permitted in S/S
 

mike, that is all true, but dont you believe that there is 5 times as many autos as there is sticks, a less experianced stick racer is not going to compete with a smart auto racer, also a smart stick racer will kill a dumb auto racer.dont get mad yet, i think most nhra stick racers no way more about it than i do, my question is why can i do an exact back to back test and come up so far off. i dare to say any stock or ss racer running a stick switches to a 2 speed will slow down, im from missouri you may have to show me. also guys, lets take comp records and post them with the 250 lbs. wt. break. that is the true test. when there is no differance in weight or index the true class cars will all be running sticks. eddeyville is going to run some index no-break out stuff this year, autos get a weight break, bring your autos and kick these standard trans guys ***, i will give an auto an extra 100 dollars if they win. there will be 2 clutch cars in the finals.

Re: Clutchless transmission permitted in S/S
 

i just went to comp to be sure, i would stay away from those records if you want to continue this discussion. true, some are faster, but average it out and post it, and again that is with a 250 lbs. break running 3 speeds mostly. they are the true test, take away the weight breaks there and see how many autos show up. if you guys are right, im going to loan my powerglide to mike edwards at pamona if he promises to split the winnings with me. should be a wash.

Re: Clutchless transmission permitted in S/S
 

Try using "same place same day" comparison like class winners/qualifiers at Indy or Gainesville. Most of the heavy hitters are at those races and conditions are the same for everyone.

Most of the SS racers here are missing the real gains with the clutchless gearbox. If you don't have a computer and a clutch you can slide like a torque converter, you'll never see the true potential. The ones who get it right can easily see a tenth.

Re: Clutchless transmission permitted in S/S
 

exactly!!!!!

Re: Clutchless transmission permitted in S/S
 

There is at least 5 times as many auto cars versus sticks. Why? Do you think it is because autos are more fun to drive? Do you think it is because auto guys do not like to work on their cars? I don't think so.

Remember, this is super stock and we are talking about guys and gals who live and breathe this stuff. Typically, they are highly intelligent, get up early, stay late, defer their retirements, upset their spouses, and sacrifice Christmases sometimes to become King of the Hill. That said, if there was a gain to be had by having a stick, they would have it. But they don't. I have one because it is fun. Period.

Due respect, comparing comp cars and pro stockers to super stock is a bit of a stretch. As well, the ratio of autos versus sticks is lobsided in comp too.

Forgive me, because I almost forgot one little thing. Is it not true that Comp and Pro Stock are allowed 5 speed transmissions? Wanna bet what happens if they limit them to 4?

Conversely, I would modify my opinion greatly if we were allowed a 5 speed.

Re: Clutchless transmission permitted in S/S
 

Randy,

Remind me again what class you run. Were you the one with the super clean Cobalt with the hood scoop on You Tube? If it is, I would like to have one that looked that nice.

Re: Clutchless transmission permitted in S/S
 

yes. that silver cobalt that says [already gone]. is it thank you. guys, i have been beat by lots of autos and i have the utmost respect for them. we run ss/cs and bogner and manns are quicker than us but not because they have autos and weight breaks, it is because they have more HP and better setups right now. i would love to use that as my excuse, but we have actually tried a 2 speed and slowed down .35. every car we build is stick because we would be lost with auto. not pretty, just my 2 cents worth. also, the reason most people run auto is because it is basically a glorified bracket race.

Re: Clutchless transmission permitted in S/S
 

mike dahl you have a pm.

Re: Clutchless transmission permitted in S/S
 

I think most racers share a number of common interests, including but not limited to a love of the automobile and the mechanics and technology associated with it as well as the competitive nature to compete and win at doing something they enjoy. Learning and evolving are all part of the experience, using your talents, knowledge and expertice to turn on the win light at the end of the day.

Many of todays Pro Stock veterans started in Stock and Superstock. I, like many racers have always owned and driven a stick shift car because that was my first love. I started with a SS/L Camaro, a SS/K Chev II, a SS/A Corvette, a SS/AM Olds Calais that I later moved to A/SM in Comp and Oldsmobile Cutlass tube cars in B/A, C/A and G/A.

All of those cars were very competitive usually qualifying very near the front row and occasionally #1 and #2. All the time I was in Superstock people kept telling me that I should be racing and automatic to be more consistent, "You gotta have an automatic if you want to win." I refused to listen. I just kept on working on making the car go faster and evolving as a better driver because I knew that my real goal was to take my knowledge and expertise over to comp where the rules were basically weight to cubic inch - first man to the finish line wins..... with a stick shift car.

My first National event win was in Superstock at the Southern Nationals with one of my best friends, Larry Pritchett and I in the final. Two stick shift cars. I think he was in SS/GTE or F and I was in SS/B.

My next National win was in Comp Eliminator at Topeka where another best friend, David Nickens and I were in the final..... two stick shift cars. He was in E/A and I was in B/A. That was also the first National win for one of my most respected Superstock gurus... Jimmy Bridges. He was in SS/E stick. Oh yeah, there's another guy on here who might want to toss in his opinion on Stock-Superstock, evolution and stick shift cars.... his name is Dwight Southerland

This new clutchless rule opens the door for any Super Stock stick shift competitor learn, evolve and become a better racer and a more knowledgeable individual. Nothing in life or in this game stands still. You can either move forward or be left behind. That's just the way it is.

If I were in the same position as many of you, I'd seriously consider moving to a SS Modified class with a newer car where you can now run a clutchless 5 speed. You'll have a lot more options and will have a vehicle that will easily adapt to a number of SS or Comp classes and you can evolve at your own pace.

Re: Clutchless transmission permitted in S/S
 

I'm curious, was anybody using the clutch to make a gear change anyway? (in stock and superstock)

Re: Clutchless transmission permitted in S/S
 

This could not have been said any better.
Eddie Rezac

Re: Clutchless transmission permitted in S/S
 

yea, we were using the clutch every run we ever made in ss, ihra or nhra. we were a little behind the times and could not for the life of us figure how to pull a clutch assist out with 600 hp against you without harming the drivetrain. of course we were running setups from the early fiftys we have been told.