Changing the indexes worked
 

21 cars got to go faster than the former trigger, without fear of HP. With the current indexes, .85 under would have been the trigger before at 1.15. I am not even clear on what it is now. I think it is one second. At least now guys can go fast and enjoy a speed sport.

Re: Changing the indexes worked
 

So what worked? Tell the four at the bottom of the superstock qualifying list it worked!
Ernie

Re: Changing the indexes worked
 

Tell the bottom 4 to join their regional N/SS class club and have fun and enjoy racing again cause they ain't makin any money anyway's.

If they can't go fast and compete anymore?...Time to get out, retire and enjoy life. We can alway's build our old iron's new, problem is, we can't always keep up with the iron.

Re: Changing the indexes worked
 

You mean New Iron ?

What about my hyperexotics like non-newtonian fluids and berylium retainers (said no titanium :)

Re: Changing the indexes worked
 

I don't wont to argue this point but

I think Clark and Moreno were running Stockers in Super Stock - may have been grade point issues in stock - they wanted to be there for #50 so they ran Super Stock


Watts can qualify under the new indexes if he does not have problems.

The turbo VW - I do not know much about that combination, I wish them well and hope they did their home work.

Re: Changing the indexes worked
 

Re: Changing the indexes worked
 

Thats BS plain and simple. Some racers still have pride left and want to work on a combo that has been beat on for years, not buy some trick of the week, underfactored contraption and set back and gloat over how fast they are. The only thing that the 3 tenths did was to keep the underfactored .......underfactored longer.

Re: Changing the indexes worked
 

<I think Clark and Moreno were running Stockers in Super Stock - may
have been grade point issues in stock - they wanted to be there for #50
so they ran Super Stock>

Just for clarification, Fred Moreno's Red Mustang is a superstock car,
look at the big slicks. But I think his brother races another Mustang in
stock class.

Re: Changing the indexes worked
 

Go get 'em Ernie, Bob and SS Engine Guy! Right on posts!

#5457

Curt Rees

Re: Changing the indexes worked
 

With EFI??? Old carburated iron can finally rest. My belief is that the last true push rod motor will be a Hemi. 1.6 hp per cube is just the begining.

Re: Changing the indexes worked
 

chris,what do you mean "no titanium"?

Re: Changing the indexes worked
 

In Stock Elim, no Titanium Retainers, or valves.....but you CAN use Titanium valve springs. The DP Engines originally shipped with Titainum retainers that had to be pulled because they werent legal. It was a misunderstanding and honest mistake. But well.....hence no Titanium

Re: Changing the indexes worked
 

Two of the bottom four went to second round ! So what is your point ?

Re: Changing the indexes worked
 

Dialing your index is generally not conducive to going rounds. There is no room to play. If you can dial the index and win two rounds in a row, then I would say that you are pretty lucky to survive.

Re: Changing the indexes worked
 

Correct me if I'm wrong but about 5-6 years ago Eric Pearson won Topeka in the AMC Spirit dialing the index.
Granted that probably won't happen again but he did do it.

Re: Changing the indexes worked
 

Actually Ed,I think that was Bub Miller who won in Topeka. He drove that car before the late model Camaro and the Comp car. I`m sure it`s the same car that Eric drives now. You are correct though,it is possible to go rounds not running the index,just very unlikely to do it more that once.

Re: Changing the indexes worked
 

You may be right Lane.BTW the car is here in Div 1.Mike Meier runs it in Q/SA.

Re: Changing the indexes worked
 

I didn`t realize that Ed. Cool to know.

Re: Changing the indexes worked
 

Two of the last 4 are Stockers. Holroyd is running Grossi Stocker Buick and Dave Moreno's Mustang is a Stocker too. I agree with Andy's Dad that Tom Watts can run under the new index. Scott Kelley ran a front drive Toyota last year in Super Stock. The SS/BX VW is their first outing with this combo. There is also at one or two other Stocker in the last 7 cars in the field, Scarth and Sorensen.

So from my perspective the index change did not work since there are still Stockers in Super Stock. I still say they should have reduced the index by .5 seconds. It would keep Super Stock Super Stock, not a combo race!

Re: Changing the indexes worked
 

I'd say it worked fine, in this respect :

They sped up the cars at the top a little, and the same for a few at the bottom .
It's supposed to be a performance eliminator, right?
Every time someone brings up " No heads up in the eliminator" , 90% of the guys here jump up and down in unison , shouting " No way! I'll quit first! "
So what's the problem?

Re: Changing the indexes worked
 

Att. Bryan You said someone ran a front drive car in SS. Could you pls.
tell me what class that was ? Modified maybe. I was told by a nhra teck person that you could not run a front drive stocker in SS even if it fit the weight break , any clues as to how that works.
thanks. Or if it happened before?

Re: Changing the indexes worked
 

SS/GS and SS/EX both FWD classes, in superstock eliminator

Re: Changing the indexes worked
 

There will always be stockers in SS as long as the rules keep changing and as long as there are combos factored 20-50hp soft. Personally I could care less what the indexes are changed to. But changing the indexes won't help the factoring system (if there even is such a system) correctly factor a combination.

Re: Changing the indexes worked
 

How come nobody brought up the that it looks like NHRA will be able to bring alot less trophy's for class wins to these race's. It takes .5 under to WIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Re: Changing the indexes worked
 

Actually, per Bruce at Pomona, a single for class must only run on or under the index. No more .50 under. Contested classes have no restrictions.

Re: Changing the indexes worked
 

I`ve heard the same thing John.

Re: Changing the indexes worked
 

Bryan,

You are right on with that. If you want to change to SS then you have been warned.

Re: Changing the indexes worked
 

Maybe they should've reduced the indexes by 1.00, and removed the AHFS completely. There, y'all can go as fast as you want. Everybody happy? Aww, somebody can't run the index then? Maybe they should just "quit whining and work harder". :rolleyes:

The Country Club will end up destroying itself. Way to go.

Re: Changing the indexes worked
 

May have been better to leave the Stock indexes alone, since that is the closest division to being "entry level". It's not, of course, but is where most people start out. I can't imagine anybody thinking the SS indexes were not too soft.

Michael, like it or not NHRA is likely to be around long after IHRA is gone. I like running both, but NHRA has the well known pros which actually puts people in the stands and pays the bills.

Re: Changing the indexes worked
 

exactly why super stock is on borrowed time, not everyone is well healed enough to keep up, with this type of comment, maybe we all should quit,

Re: Changing the indexes worked
 

I believe this is how the index system was started in the first place? due to the lack of racer participation

Rich Wallin, are you the same Rich that worked for Ford?

Re: Changing the indexes worked
 

yes, how is retirement treating you

Re: Changing the indexes worked
 

I'll gladly race my 17" tire car verse a 9" tire car any day. The more the merrier.

3 tenths is fine, but a second woulda been kinda rough! :P friggin Beard, ***** stirrer.. lol

Re: Changing the indexes worked
 

Exactly the point... I think there are too many racers who think, "Oh, it's fine if they lower the indexes by (insert number .10 slower than what that racer can run in bad conditions), but no more than that!" Interestingly, there's a large contingent who bellow that "S/SS are PERFORMANCE classes!", yet many of those cry foul whenever anything is suggested that would result in more heads-up racing. Amazing. :rolleyes:

Ed Wright -- Where did IHRA, Pro classes and spectators come into this? :confused:

And to the original post of this thread... doesn't that just show the combinations that have been underfactored all this time? I've said it a million times: factor everything reasonably once, and then you don't HAVE to have HP factoring/triggers, etc. for years! If these combinations were factored correctly in the first place, they could run all out without fear of getting more HP. Regardless, today's result could've been accomplished simply by moving the trigger .15 without touching the indexes.

Re: Changing the indexes worked
 

you guys kill me we have 2 cars a Q and T car with new fresh motors they will run under the indexes no problem but who cares i could care care less about how far under i go and if you can just run the index who cares unless u have a heads up if u cut a light and run the number u can go rounds hell u can even win do ya'll forget we all dial in it's not heads up unless u run some one in your class slow cars can win

Re: Changing the indexes worked
 

Sean, you are correct, my stuff will not go way under regardless, but if I can drive it I may go a few rounds just like you say, the issue is the index system is not broken, what needs fixing is the factoring system for engines that can or cannot run over or under the index, dropping the index just eliminated some racers who could just run the old index, NHRA eliminated some customers,

Re: Changing the indexes worked
 

Now that stock isn't truly stock any more, the indexing is for the garbage bin and let's move on to another way of looking at putting everyone at par. Go to pounds per cubic inch would make the field at a even level.

I've been doing this a long time and I'm one of the racers that couldn't run the index in qualifying, I had to step on the car to just get it to go .02 under in 1st round. My looking at is, is that why does my car have to weigh almost 3300 lbs and a car with more cubic inches then my car gets to run either the same weight or less. All of the index stuff and saving your car from getting factored would change if NHRA went to pounds per cubic inch. No more book factoring which every one knows is BS. I'm carring weight from cars that ran in the late 1960's and early 70's. My car is a 1969 Z/28 and is totally different from a 1967 Z/28 except for the emblem in the grill. There are big differences in the front H frame and engines and yet the 69 is rated and classified the same. If my car was factored correctly, it would be 290 HP instead of 309 which got it's factoring from a 1967 Z/28. That's is why I think that the book crap doesn't work! Go to weight to C.I. is my vote! That's when the real fast cars will start showing their muscle when they are carring the corrected weight to their class.


Casey Miles
248H

Re: Changing the indexes worked
 

[QUOTE=Michael Beard;169364]Exactly the point... I think there are too many racers who think, "Oh, it's fine if they lower the indexes by (insert number .10 slower than what that racer can run in bad conditions), but no more than that!" Interestingly, there's a large contingent who bellow that "S/SS are PERFORMANCE classes!", yet many of those cry foul whenever anything is suggested that would result in more heads-up racing. Amazing. :rolleyes:

Ed Wright -- Where did IHRA, Pro classes and spectators come into this? :confused: [QUOTE]

More heads up pairings? I'm cool with that idea.
If by "the country club" you didn't mean NHRA, I appologize.

Re: Changing the indexes worked
 

OK - believe it or not my original post here was "toung in cheek". I was not for the lowering of the indexes. I preferred to change the trigger point to bring some of the out of line combinations more in line. The race at Pomona proved the point. Now some out of line combinations will never get HP.

However, if the indexes had stayed the same and NHRA had lowered the trigger point to say, 1 second (as some have suggested) - ggeezzee - 45 cars out of 79 would have been flagged and that does not seem right either.

This is a rich mans sport. Stackers, motorhomes, $25,000 motors, etc. The days of working on your car on weekends and during the week and feeling good about your chances are gone, at least if you have a heads up or run for class. But niether of those happen that often. So I will just continue to bracket race in stock and hope my son gets back in the seat soon (college studies and athletics), since the only way I can cut .00 lights is if my foot slips off the brake.

LOL

The trigger point should be .85 under. Lowering the indexes should not have effected the AHFS. The two have nothing to do with each other.

Stay warm back there in the snow.

Re: Changing the indexes worked
 

Rich, retirement is good. I do miss the proving grounds, believe or not I was on those guys that enjoyed his job. I hate to see anybody get fired, but Mark Tammy Hota needed to be let go after selling the place. Send me an e-mail drgrcr1@hotmail.com