Update From Phoenix
 

They ran stock, super street and super stock and they were running super comp when some dragsters got out of shape when they came off the stop. They have been working on the track for the last couple of hours, spraying every inch of the track with VHT or whatever they use.

They pulled super comp out of the lanes and were getting ready to call stock to the lanes for the first round of the national when they announced that they are going to wash down the track and start over. It will be at least two hours before any cars go down the track.

You know the track must be pretty bad when super comp dragsters get out of shape.

On Jody's super stock time trial somebody got out of shape and came into his lane and almost hit him. Jody had to lift. They won't give him another time trial, so he has to go off last week's data.


-Toby

Re: Update From Phoenix
 

I dropped in to say hi to a few racers on Wednesday this week. I didn't see any signs of the track being worked on. You know, in the down time. That might have been a good time to wash down the track if that's one of the issues.

Re: Update From Phoenix
 

Toby -- Sounds like I should be glad we got the big Nor'Easter here that kept me home ...........

PS- Just finished plowing and I can't believe it -- the Sun just came out ! ! !

Re: Update From Phoenix
 

From DRC - "after track clean up...Round 1 of Stock will be attempted" That's a new one!

Re: Update From Phoenix
 

I just got off the phone with a friend thats there and he says the concrete has disintegrated in areas and is coming up in chunks.

Re: Update From Phoenix
 

Can anybody say 1/8 mile this weekend ? Hope everyone stays safe.

Re: Update From Phoenix
 

They are having a drivers meeting now.

Re: Update From Phoenix
 

Deja vue?

Beginning to sound a lot like Rockingham 'eh Danny?

I feel for you guys.

Glad we passed on continuing on to Phoenix with the CJ car.

Re: Update From Phoenix
 

The rumor going around the pits is that they have canceled the national and will run it somewhere else (most likely Vegas) and they will try to run the divisional. Whatever doesn't get finished here will be run at Tucson.

Again, this is just a rumor.


-Toby

Re: Update From Phoenix
 

Are you f'in kidding me. So those rich overly paid sportsman racers that have waited an entire week can now travel to Tucson or hey maybe Vegas. Guess this is how to guarantee a car count. Glad I gave it up. Chad if and when you do race good luck. Too all please be safe!! That place has and still is a mess.

Re: Update From Phoenix
 

This is what I just received after drivers meeting:
Here's the deal - the National event is called and will be at another track to be announced. They are going to try and run alcohol today and then make a decision about whether to run the rest of the Divisional.

Re: Update From Phoenix
 

They are picking up where they left off with super comp. The word is if you have already made a run, you are done for the day.

Sounds like most of the super compers are getting down the track OK.

Still no official word on the national yet.


-Toby

Re: Update From Phoenix
 

Wow there has to be a lot of racers more than upset (to put it lightly)....seems like track prep or "reconstruction" should occur before the event, at least on Thursday.......unless of course the track suddenly decided to deteriorate on Friday of the race......we don't have many tracks out west and need a respectable safe place to race especially in Arizona.....it will be interesting to hear more on this story........from racers who are there.....surely I'm not.......really a bummer for all involved.

Re: Update From Phoenix
 

The race has been canceled. It will be run here sometime toward the end of the year.


-Toby

Re: Update From Phoenix
 

They are just now thinking that they used the wrong traction compound? Hmmm.

Re: Update From Phoenix
 

NHRA & division 7 racing, getting better at every race! Not a good start to the season here in d7.
I don't care when it is, if it's there, I won't be going!
S/SS combo races are looking better & better all the time.

Re: Update From Phoenix
 

The track personell worked very hard trying to get the track to come in for all race cars and it would not , but firebird made a huge effort for the racers I know i watched them so that is just racing some times things just don't work out as most racers should know . Don't worry FireBird will have a good track as soon as they figure out the issues out I know this .

Re: Update From Phoenix
 

Very unfortunate and probably quite costly for everyone involved....WJ

Re: Update From Phoenix
 

Yeah I just found this on DRC: "NHRA and Firebird officials have been working feverishly to correct a problem that was discovered
during the NHRA Arizona Nationals and despite their best efforts have not been able to overcome the
conditions. It was found on Friday that the wrong product of traction compound was sent to the
track and was used to prepare the racetrack the last two weeks. Officials believe that this is the
root of the problems with the racing surface."

I'm calling a huge BS on this latest "EXCUSE" I have a pretty reliable source that reported "parts of the racing surface were deteriorating as passes were being made" :rolleyes:

Re: Update From Phoenix
 

Rick: there is no doubt that the track is kinda of old but i personally walked the track and didi not see what you are saying ,it was just a no win situation for everyone and the decision to postpone the race was the right decison.

Re: Update From Phoenix
 

I would bet money they were using VP traction compound and not VHT. VP does not work on cold tracks.

Re: Update From Phoenix
 

And I'm sure the attorneys for the deceased are monitoring this and every other race site.

Re: Update From Phoenix
 

Mr Hill, how much money are you willing to put up. I'll start with $1000.00. Will you match it ,or better yet ,how about upping it?

Raul

Re: Update From Phoenix
 

So Mr. know it all what were they using?

Re: Update From Phoenix
 

Possible legal action filed toward NHRA will allow NHRA to place blame on the supplier. Thus the reason for stating "wrong product....sent etc. etc."

Re: Update From Phoenix
 

By your reply I assume you won't be willing to bet after all. Since I can't win any money from you, I'll answere your question. The track, and NHRA use PJ1 traction compound. You can check on the internetand see what it is. It certainly is not VP. However you are correct about it not working well on a cold track.

Raul

Re: Update From Phoenix
 

As II'm making the lovely 1500 mile trip back home I have a few questions:

1. WTF is wrong with VHT?

2. Has the EPA started cracking down on the use of VHT?

3. Was it just discovered this weekend that PJ1 doesn't work well on cold tracks?

4. Is PJ1 cheaper than VHT? If so, is it worth having cars on their roofs and into the wall? Not to mention having to pay all the personnel to work the make up races?


-Toby

Re: Update From Phoenix
 

The traction compound pj1 is the same as the vht . the VHT name was sold for some paint names and then the traction compound was renamed pj1 .

The company sells to their customers the traction compound either full strength or diluted 25% . The customer then decides how they want to apply the traction compound.

The Firebird track manager Chuck has never been told on how much traction compound to buy by Charlie Allen and can buy as much as he wants for Firebird use .

I suspect that when NHRA comes to town then they use what ever traction compound they want and most likley deluted to their own desires made by some decision maker unkown to most, not really sure on that though.

Re: Update From Phoenix
 

OK, thank you for the explaination. I thought they were different products.

In the statement released by the NHRA it said the wrong product was sent to the track. Which product did they have and which is the right one?

If there are only two types I doubt having the diluted one would make much difference. They dilute it with alcohol, right? The alcohol evaporates. Couldn't you just spray more down to get the same result as full strength?

Something doesn't make sense.


-Toby

Re: Update From Phoenix
 

THOSE DAMM SUPPLIERS-- they will do it every time and I have seen those labels on the drums----THEY JUST ARE NOT BIG ENOUGH.

Re: Update From Phoenix
 

OK it must just be me but why does anyone make traction compound that not only does not work - it does the reverse of what it is suppose to do.

Bull I say.

I do not have a PHD in traction compounds, as some who have posted here, seem to have. Not sure where to acquire the knowledge. Have read about solution mixtures. Have read about cold track vs ?? (not cold track).

I can only say one thing in defense of the track and NHRA - I do not believe either of them would have wanted this to happen. Everybody wanted to complete the race(s).

Not sure why they did not do the National on Thursday when they had a crew and the safety equipment there for the test and tune.

Sure glad I reverted to "young and irresponsible" and went to the "race" instead of staying home. As Toby told me Friday "I knew you would come".

Drag racing is an addiction for which there is no cure or rehab.

Sorry for the rambling but I think I am suffering from post "no-race" syndrome.

Until next time.

Re: Update From Phoenix
 

Toby,
The PJ1(VHT) is cut with Methanol before it is sprayed on the track. When you gt the PH1 on your hands the best way to get it off is by washing your hands in straight methanol. They covered the track with straight methanol in an attempt to get rid of the compound that had already been applied. Obviously they did not get the track as good as was needed to be safe.

I'm sorry you, and many others made such a long trip only to see the race canceled. I am lucky, I only had to go 15 miles.

Raul

Re: Update From Phoenix
 

Methanol, alcohol, pretty much the same thing, right?

Since you seem to know quite a bit about it, maybe you can answer my question.

If Don is correct and there are omly two types of PJ1, full strength and 25% cut, what would be the difference if you ordered one and got the other in terms of prepping the track? And do you think it could cause what happened this weekend?



-Toby

Re: Update From Phoenix
 

Human error??? Maybe they were shipped the 25% . Track prep crew thought they had the full strength and cut it AGAIN.....this really could have screwed things, no? Just thinking out loud...WJ

Re: Update From Phoenix
 

WJ : Not sure if it was human error and the lack of finding a way to make the old racing surface work .
it is kinda of like when we have a engine that makes no power ,or we red light or we make the wrong decison in racing . i am sure of one thing, during the devisional FireBird employees as well as Mike Rice were all wanting to catch a good light or build a engine that makes power and make sure the track worked ,but they failed , but don't worry the track will correct the problem just like we as racers will correct any problems we may have in Our racing operations ?

Re: Update From Phoenix
 

Not to beat a dead horse, but they said they found out they had the wrong product on Friday. I'm guessing that's when they made the decision to wash down the track and start over. If not, they should have been able to make adjustments Saturday.

If the reason they couldn't make it work is the track needs to be repaved, they should just come out and say it.


-Toby

Re: Update From Phoenix
 

Thanks Toby. Finally someone stated what's obvious to anyone who actually looked at the blacktop surface.

Re: Update From Phoenix
 

I figured about this time we could use some facts:

JP1 TrackBite was formally know as VHT Trackbite and according to their website they only sell 1 (one) traction compound.

VP manufactures 2 different traction compounds and they are known as Lane Choice 6 track Adhesive and LC6-Cold.

I do not know what was used on the Phoenix track and it might be neither of these traction compounds.

Leaving facts for a while:

It was my belief that NHRA for the National Events used NHRA people to apply VP traction compound and that was because the PRO's requested a traction compound that did not hook as hard because they wanted "wheel speed". LODRS meets had the track people apply JP1 Trackbite (formally known as VHT Trackbite) because the Sportsman wanted a maximum hook traction compound.

Bob

Re: Update From Phoenix
 

If "cheap" charlie had not moved his race up one week (just so he did not have to compete with the golf tournement) he would have had ample time to figure out the track between races and dodged the weather! He wont promote the LODRS race with even a small radio spot or newspaper ad but he went out of his way to move his national.You see where his favoritism lies. He does not care about the racer and not even the precious spectator (as you can see with the whole antron incident).Until we have marketability we dont mean squat to NHRA or track owners as a whole. (not including Pat Joffrion , we all know he's different)

Re: Update From Phoenix
 

Can anyone for a FACT tell us what name brand or model glue was being used that was deemed wrong?