how was stock/super stock ran in the 60's and 70's?
 

i can't remember.
i sorta remember class runoffs being heads-up and the 1st guy to the finish line won and eliminations were ran but without a breakout.
i was just wondering about the handicap part of it, how was it determined?

Re: how was stock/super stock ran in the 60's and 70's?
 

National records

Re: how was stock/super stock ran in the 60's and 70's?
 

I believe same class racing was always first to the finish wins. Up to a centain time everbody ran off the national record for eliminations TOP STOCK/JR STOCK etc. The biggest change that I remember is class racing went on every weekend at your local track up in till bracket racing became popular and everything became a national or divisional thing. I know some of the reasons brackets overtook class racing on a local level(cheating and no qualified personel).....maybe sound like DEJAVU. Loved the days when you could go out and class race and come home same day. Have asked why in my division we can't get a program going ( like so. cal s/g s/c) but was told you can't get these guys together. Case in point is we have two local s/ss races 6 months apart at a local track and can only get maybe 10-15 cars max to show up. I know there are probably maybe 30 cars local that dont show up. Why.... is my question.... I would put mine back on track if others would...and I know these other cars run divisionals etc?

Re: how was stock/super stock ran in the 60's and 70's?
 

Wasn't there a breakout if you went more than.10 under the record?

Re: how was stock/super stock ran in the 60's and 70's?
 

Correct Ed!

You could run .10 sec under the class record and not break out. The National Record was the dial-in for you class. The V/Stock '50 Olds was "killer" under those rules.

Jerry

Re: how was stock/super stock ran in the 60's and 70's?
 

...yup and then you waited for the Nat'l digger every week to see if your record took a hit, so you could find a 4 door/convertible/wagon or some other body to throw your stuff into to change to a better class......oh, how I remember

Re: how was stock/super stock ran in the 60's and 70's?
 

Re: how was stock/super stock ran in the 60's and 70's?
 

Re: how was stock/super stock ran in the 60's and 70's?
 

Re: how was stock/super stock ran in the 60's and 70's?
 

that's what i thought but relying on MY memory, i wasn't sure.
so,why did it change?

Re: how was stock/super stock ran in the 60's and 70's?
 

I can remember one of the local hitters used to have a pair of oversize swing sets behind his Sunoco station he used to change bodies on the '56 Chevy combo he ran. ...Just lifted off one body, and swapped out to another! ....Tom

Re: how was stock/super stock ran in the 60's and 70's?
 

Tom,

What engine are you running in the American ?????

Re: how was stock/super stock ran in the 60's and 70's?
 

I ran stock at Amarillo TX Dragway in the 60's. B/S and C/S and flat towed it with a tow bar and free wheel spindles on the rear hubs.
There they weighed you as you entered the race and tech was done there at the scales at the same time. No weight after that. We always weighed with the tool box in the trunk and the spare tires and a few shot bags to make weight. Of course those all came out when we hit the pits. I guess we were one of the cheaters but so was everyone else around the pits. That is where I picked the idea up.
We all had a good time and there was no brakes ever before the finish line for sure.
I miss those days.

Re: how was stock/super stock ran in the 60's and 70's?
 

I believe lack of participation.The same guys,capable of going fast,with the ability of
keeping within the .10 rule dominated.That's why we now run bracket style.

You're still aiming to go with the 290 stick in the American right?

Re: how was stock/super stock ran in the 60's and 70's?
 

Those were the days. When I saw this post I thought man how I would like to be back racing in those days. The races were all based on the national record. You showed up at the track, put a "shoe polish" class on your windshield and waited for your class to be called. Whatever class you were in, you might be the only one in your class. If there was only one car in the class then maybe a B/S and a D/S would run with a head start given the the slower car based on there respective national record. Both cars were still class winners. All the class winners were called back at the end of the day for "Stock" and "Super Stock" Eliminator. Again run-offs were based on the national record for each class car. You could forget looking at the weather, figure out what can I run this time do I want to dial faster or slower, run the record and win. It was that simple. Run to fast you broke out. Run too fast the second time you have moved the national record.

Any East Coast racers remember the name Bobby Warren and Haywood Register from Clinton, North Carolina. Find yourself a few National Dragster and East Coast Drag Times, from those days and look at how many different national records Bobby held in different stock classes at any one time. If you have the papers look at the cars which held the record. Some times the same car possibly held as many as three or four record at any one time. Bobby was the National Record man in stock eliminator in those days.

When Modified Production class came along was some of the most fun class racing around. On a given week-end a track would have a Gas and Modified race. Man was that soom good racing in C/MP, D/MP, E/MP and F/MP. I can hear those 10,000 rpm, winding small blocks with tunnel ram, two four barrel Holley Carbs through Stahl headers right now while I am typing this.

And I don't know when or how it all changed. As I have said in other posts on here, we quit racing in 1973. At that time, we were Super Stock racing and a lot of match races. Local Super Stock racers were paid to fill in a Match race show. A track would book the big names to draw the crowd, Ronnie Sox, Dyno Don, Bill Jenkins, Don Carlton and local Super Stock cars were the fill-in for the show. These races would be a lead in to a two out of three match race between the "Big Boys." This spread to local tracks, they would have match races with the local fill-in cars being match up for a big Sunday afternoon race. These Super Stock races would be EVERY night of the week, up and down the East Coast. There was always a crowd of spectators, many of them with cameras that used the big large metal flashes with these big plug in flash bulbs.

We are back racing now and the thing I don't see is the spectators in the stands.

Re: how was stock/super stock ran in the 60's and 70's?
 

You ran off National records and were allowed a .10 under until the final and than you could go as far under as you needed to win. I won the Miami National Open December 1971 beating Roger England's SS/DA with my SS/GA Mustang winning with an 11.24 on a 11.45 record. If I remember correctly it was 1975 when NHRA went to the index system.

Re: how was stock/super stock ran in the 60's and 70's?
 

yep, 290/4speed
2bbl for now (so i don't have to put a cage in it yet)

btw, i need a 4bbl piston or two to send in to a mfgr and see if they'll make 'em and get them approved (by nhra)

Re: how was stock/super stock ran in the 60's and 70's?
 

Oops

Re: how was stock/super stock ran in the 60's and 70's?
 

Got one laying around.send me your address.

Re: how was stock/super stock ran in the 60's and 70's?
 

pm'd ya..

Re: how was stock/super stock ran in the 60's and 70's?
 

Got it.The piston and pin will be on the way later today.

Re: how was stock/super stock ran in the 60's and 70's?
 

Ed and others have it right, was run off Nat'l record with a tenth cushion, it had to be perfect air and a fast car to breakout. Had to win class first, then class winners ran for the money. At 75-80 Dragway we had some excellent drivers and cars but the guys who started building purpose built stockers soon easily out ran the daily driver type race cars. Car counts dropped, the remaining cars were the fast stuff, fun to watch and announce but track operators felt the low car numbers. For about two years, '69 and '70, we had a pure stock or factory stock class that was popular. Soon the better race car guys found ways to make these cars outrun the average bone stock entry and car counts fell off in this class too. Then the brackets. I remember at 75-80 one wed. nite in 1970 we tried a dial your own handicap deal. There was twelve cars entered, within two years bracket racing took off like crazy. The stock / super stock guys got a couple of events a year, at best, at most tracks. Divisional and National events then were about all that was left for them. It is good to see groups like Tri-State Stock / Super Stock and East Coast Stock / Super Stock Assoc. give you guys an alternative to go racing. Good luck to all class racers this year!

Re: how was stock/super stock ran in the 60's and 70's?
 

I started racing in 1966. Had a '57 sedan delivery 283/220. Raced mostly at Island Dragway and sometimes other tracks in the area. Island ran 2 seperate eliminators for stock. Stock 1 and Stock 2. Stock 1 was A to about J and Stock 2 was the lower class cars. You had to win your class first to run in the eliminator. Handicaps were based off the records and yes there was a 1 tenth breakout rule. Not many cars could ever exceed that 1 tenth but there were a few in good air. They ran what they called Cups or Bucks.....You had the choice to run just for a trophy in cups and the less well prepared cars ran there. You ran Bucks to have the chance at winning your class and moving into the eliminator. You got something like $10/20 or a trophy to win class in bucks and an eliminator win paid about $75 or maybe $100 in 1966. Englistown ran the same type deal.......We ran there at the first WCS event they held I believe......We also raced that weekend at Old Bridge stadium and set the track record for I/SA much to my surprise at the time......It was a 1/16th mile run on the straightaway of an oval! Dirt pits at both E-Town and Old Bridge.......and E-towns pits was only on one side....what is today the spectator side.....and they had trees where the lanes were!

Re: how was stock/super stock ran in the 60's and 70's?
 

Run off the record and a .10 cushion. Those were the days. You could still run a street car in stock. Saw it still happen until about 1976 or so. That picture in my photo gallery of me by my old Pinto, X/S. Won that trophy (and still have it by the way), had to run at least 3 rounds that day at Indianapolis Raceway Park. In those days, just winning class could be a war.

The purpose built stockers dominated the eliminator. At the end of the day, it was sure fun to roll out in your daily driver and brag to your buddies at the drive in that evening.

Something else that occurred around here. At the local tracks, mine were Brown County and Speed's in Hope, Indiana. Often they couldn't get enough cars to run seperate eliminators, ie, Stock, S/S, MP. They'd lump them all into a "M"oney class and run them off their respective records. That made for some interesting racing, especially if you paired a low class stocker against a high class MP car.

Cups or Bucks, ours were simpler, Money or Trophy. The purpose built cars ran the money class. Trophy was for the less well prepared cars and the street cars.

Re: how was stock/super stock ran in the 60's and 70's?
 

Great question,,
Local tracks handled things a little different than at National Events and Points Meets. Our local track, Dover Drag Strip (Wingdale, NY) let the
Super Stockers run for class first (trophy and class winner decal), then could compete in S/S Eliminator. For class, anything could go, but in
S/S Eliminator, they could not break-out (run under the NHRA record).
,,In Stock, the same thing, win your class first (any way)..Then head down to the tower, and pay $10 (I think that was the amount),, and run your typical handicap eliminations..But again no break-out. Guys that won
class early in the day,, could get out of there by 4:00,,if they weren't interested in $.
Paul,,,Everyone was happy,,then NHRA ruined the stock class for 73'
Good Bye Racing.

Re: how was stock/super stock ran in the 60's and 70's?
 

and you could build a car and be a player for what a set of diamond piston rings cost today...

them was the days to race...

captain jack

Mj & I built the wagon for about $1800 including the car

Re: how was stock/super stock ran in the 60's and 70's?
 

Those were the days, but like the man said, racer count was dropping because the car that could run the furthest under, would win. You didn't have to lean on the tree, and it got were two cars that were close in performance were getiing hard to find, so the racing was getting to be skewed.

If we didn't have the system we have in place now, I think, and of course it is just an opinion, and we all know that opinions are like rear ends, we all have one and most of them stink.....class racing would have disappeared. I like class racing, I have even won a heads up race once in a awhile. The system we currently have aint broke. I know they are a few folks who love to see it go away, for what ever reason......but the current format sure provides a lot more racing, and as far as spectator enjoyment or manufacture involvement, very few spectators understand it, even if it was a heads format ( with a half dozen cars involved) they still wouldn't watch,not like back in the late sixty's early seventy's, it just aint the same.....

It is snowing here in AZ, I have nothing better to do at the moment than to surf the net.....

We have don't to take of the racing enough to help it survive, and like the movie "Field of Dreams" if we build it they will come, if for no other reason because people are becoming burn out on NASCAR?

Re: how was stock/super stock ran in the 60's and 70's?
 

Some here discuss the excitement of running off records... Obviously many do not remember the EAST coast WEST coast Stocker record battles. We in the midwest were killed by record dial in at a 1000 ft track at 90degrees and 90% humidity. If you raced a popular combo in Ohio versus a combo not hitting records every weekend you were in the hole before the light changed. Only good part was most of us were learning and fighting the weather together....Kind of evened it up.
Index system created to make it so ALL racers could dial in and become a big Bracket race even if you had a class car you drove to the track. Good and Bad things about it.
I rarely saw any form of Class racing outside a NHRA Nationals. That made it a MUST to attend. Then with explosion of numbers OF classes the cars werent plentiful enough to populate many. classes and due to time NHRA cut the entrants which made Class bye runs ....sad...
Want to have fun again. Cut classes to 12 Stick and auto classes and see 20 cars per class EVERYWHERE to have fun and entertain spectators.Gives back the drive to run fast and still can race eliminations if 64 car fields...

Re: how was stock/super stock ran in the 60's and 70's?
 

I'll go even further back to the days before the christmas tree. At least here in the midwest, it went like this racing AHRA.

Every class had a "spot" number. I can't remember the specific numbers but let's assume I/PS (Pure Stock) had a spot of 12. Say that a D/PS had a spot number of 9. The slower car got three spots. As I remember, it was basically one spot per class though not always.

The spots were actually painted off in the center of the track. Both cars pulled to the line and the starter (flagman) would gesture to the slower car to pull forward. He'd find the appropriate line on the track and stage the slower car there. The fast car staged on the starting line.

At the time we didn't have crazy horsepower so lining up way downtrack wasn't an issue. Since the flagman had to be ahead of both cars sometimes the fast car at the line was squinting to see the flagman way down the track.

There was a guy at the finish line in a raised chair (like a tennis referee) who would wave a flag or flashlight to show which lane got there first.

A few years later we actually got electronics and the "he couldn't have beat me, I had the quickest ET" education began.

I was very successful in Pure Stock, Stock, and Stock Production with a 340 Duster. It was a great combination that I just fell into. I never had a whole lot of competitiion for class other than a 360 Hornet that used to give me fits though I think I probably won a few more than I lost.

Racing for the Eliminator trophy was always the most fun, though there was a big block Nova that I could never get close to. Years later I ran into the owner when we both worked for Goodyear and he told me about the 427 he'd put in the car two weeks after he bought it new.

Yes, tech was pretty slipshod. Cheating would slowly get out of hand and the track owner would borrow a P&G displacement gauge to pump few engines for size. That would usually get things back closer to normal for a while.

It was still the most fun I've ever had at a dragstrip and that's saying a lot.

Re: how was stock/super stock ran in the 60's and 70's?
 

Another point Dick. Under this old system. How many cars were turned into junk overnite, when your record got bombed? Unlike today when you can move a combination around to at least take advantage of the class to make the car run. Back then, the car factored where it lit. If a combo didn't at least get close to the class minimum. You might (more often than not) have a real hard time getting a car to run, much less be competitive.

Yes, the index system, at least allows us all to come and play. The system as it is today, lets you work with a car to make it run the class minimum. Just like my boss says, "no matter what you do, somebody's not gonna be happy"!

Re: how was stock/super stock ran in the 60's and 70's?
 

Racing with a flagman! I got to do this once. It must've been about 1974. I went to the local track one Sunday, Brown County Dragway. All I had planned to do that day was relax and drink beer and BS. I'd been working 6-7 day weeks for a bit, just wanted some down time. I was only 19.

I had a 1967 ugly green Ford Falcon with a 170ci 6cyl. It was a work car, being a kid, I had the normal for the day, raised white letter tires on steel wheels. I did have a massive chromed Sun tach mounted on the dash. That was limit of it's perfomance. It had stock road gears, it wasn't fast.

Anyway, that day, the Xmas tree was malfunctioning. They announced, they could either shut down or race with a flag man. Bunch of the racers got together and said race with the flag. A bunch of my buddies got in a huddle and came over to me and said, race the Falcon. I laughed at them. I drove the car over to tech, just to see where it would land, they teched it into Y/SA! Only one letter left on the scale at that time, Z.

I did make a couple time trials, it was only an 1/8 mile track. I was still ungodly slow. With no electronics, I don't even know how slow it was? In the eliminator, I don't remember the class of the car I ran, but it had to be a B-C-D car, I got an unreal spot. I felt like I got walked half way down the track. I left as hard as I could, got nipped at the line. For a day with no expectations, turned into a fun day, glad I got to be reminded of it.

Re: how was stock/super stock ran in the 60's and 70's?
 

Ford Falcon's Oh Yes,

My mom had a 61 Ford Falcon with the 144 cu six and an automatic in it when I first got my drivers license. It only took me about six months to blow it up, and that was just on the street.

So my dad and I put a 170 Cu in six in it and that was soooo much better, but it only took me about three months to toast that engine, so Dad said, let's go the bone yard and see what we can find..

It was an econoline van with a 289, and we got the engine, tranny, and rear end for about $150 (which I had to work off since I was the one blowing engines..) After a couple of weeks, we had the shock towers cut, the firewall backed up in places, and the whole thing running. We ran stock headers out to two resonators, added some bigger tires on back, and there she was in all here glory. A light green 61 Ford Falcon that looked pretty stock but could smoke em when asked. We named her the Tin Lizzard.

I was put into I/SA at the local track (in 1964) and did a nice job of bringing the trophies home for a few Sundays. Then I was protested... At the time, I told them it wasn't my fault they put me in I/SA, they just did. At that track tech consisted of them asking you what year falcon is that. I said 1961, they said I/SA.. Sounded OK to me. But once they opened the hood, and saw the v8, the said, Oh, now you need to run C/MP.

My first and only run was up against a nasty sounding GTO. I launched, got him out of the hole, and was about at half track, when I heard him go by me.... I am not sure I even saw him, but I sure heard him go by me, and it seemed like forever before I tripped the timer. I did 15.5 or so, and he went about 14 flat. OK enough of C/MP for me....

So I decided to just crew for my buddy who had 1964 mustang convertible that had been run so hard it was super loose, and although it was rated at 210HP with a 4 bbl, his was just one of those engines where everything was just loose enough to make really good horsepower, and just tight enough to stay together. so we won a few races, and had some fun with that car.

But the real point is that Tech was pretty much up to the local tracks and some did a better job of others as to actually determining whether or not you were good in a particular class or not.

And being young and stupid, you didn't ever try to tell them anything, because a number of them would gladly tell you that you were young and stupid...After all, some of them had graduated high school a couple of years before you..

Anyway that is how it was at our local tracks. The good news was that we had three tracks in easy driving distance, so we could decide which one to invade based on how much gas money we had, and how much we really wanted to win that day.

David
The New Hemi Guy
________
Body Science

Re: how was stock/super stock ran in the 60's and 70's?
 

Heres a picture Ruth took in 1961 at pence drag strip & turkey farm down by Dayton,ohio
A son cut a dragstrip out of his fathers turkey farm, you had to drive thou the farm to get to the drag strip in the back of the farm....We would race here Sunday and go 20 miles north to a strip whos name I cann't remember right now & run Sunday night.

Won a lot with that 315 H.P. Pontiac in 61 & 62

Re: how was stock/super stock ran in the 60's and 70's?
 

Tom, neat story, I had heard something about this track years ago...and nice looking Pontiac....thanks for the pics

Re: how was stock/super stock ran in the 60's and 70's?
 

Hey "hadto", we probably drove right by the place in the old "Rent-A-Wreck" Oldsmobile back in 1979. Couldn't beat the price for the thing either.

Jerry

Re: how was stock/super stock ran in the 60's and 70's?
 

Tom K.
I like that. Race, win your class, bring home a trophy,,, and a fresh Turkey
for Sunday dinner...The way junior-stock racing should be,, drive to the track,,, open the dumps,,, and race..
Does anybody remember Little Stock Eliminator or the Little-Guy Nationals???
Paul

Re: how was stock/super stock ran in the 60's and 70's?
 

Yep, I ran the little guy nationals in '75 or '76. I don't remember whether that was Bowling Green Ky, or Suffulk Va. One was the "little guy nationals, the other was "Sports Nationals".
1965 Valiant 170 slant six, Z/SA.
Only two nationals I ever went to. Won class at bowling green, then got bounced in tech for "wrong numbers on the carb". 1st round red light at Suffulk

Re: how was stock/super stock ran in the 60's and 70's?
 

Tom, Pences Turkey Farm. We used to run Muncie Saturday night and Pence on Sunday. Track was 4 or 5 feet down from ground level with Concrete side walls. Spectators sat above on Stands.. Great view... Saw Behemoth run the HillBilly there Heads up and they ran off the concrete shutdown onto gravel. Dust cloud obscured their cars and we feared they had rolled one. In a couple of minutes they came by covered in dust but unhurt....
Fun History- I was running my 56 wagon/Converted Panel truck of John Dianna then and learning to set the timing and change jets....

Re: how was stock/super stock ran in the 60's and 70's?
 

.....Jerry, thats funny, I remember our trip, the 'Rent a Wreck'. We made a stop at Kil-kare Dradway in Ohio, part of the trip to Indy from South Dakota....how the heck did we ever decide to go there?

Re: how was stock/super stock ran in the 60's and 70's?
 

Originally Posted by JRyan
Hey "hadto", we probably drove right by the place in the old "Rent-A-Wreck" Oldsmobile back in 1979. Couldn't beat the price for the thing either.

Jerry

.....Jerry, thats funny, I remember our trip, the 'Rent a Wreck'. We made a stop at Kil-kare Dradway in Ohio, part of the trip to Indy from South Dakota....how the heck did we ever decide to go there?

Hell, I don't know. I guess gas was cheap, and it was something to do after pissing Don Prudomme off at Cordova. We had John & Jay & pool at "Ma's Diner & Truck Stop", "Joe, the mechanic to go" with the free ice, a pretty crabby motel room in Cordova, and the "Honeymoon Suite" in Dayton. Pretty hectic trip, 'cause we also raced at Muncie. Then we both got beat and headed back to TVD to race on Sunday. Do you remember towing about 95 drafting a semi on I-29 when we passed the rest area and the HP in the hopped-up Dart almost ran us off the road in pursuit of the truck? We were drafting so close the cop didn't know we were there and damn near side-swiped us, but he pulled the truck over and we whistled away. Fun Deal!

Jerry