08 CJ goes 9.62 in A/S
 

anyone want to stand up and say these cars are good for the sport now? 1.32 under the new index. that would be 1.62 under the old index.

Re: 08 CJ goes 9.62 in A/S
 

OK - For once make believe your cup is half full -- tomorrow he will get horsepower added on -- somedays the system does work -- today is one of them ! ! ! ! ! !

BTW , nice 10.99 run by Evan Smith in his "Old School" 5-OH .........he's Avis again .

Re: 08 CJ goes 9.62 in A/S
 

jack, you have a good point. however how many times will these cars have to get hit to make things fair?

Re: 08 CJ goes 9.62 in A/S
 

Chad -- Egos being what they are these CJ drivers will continue to try and be #1 and it might take awhile but it always catches up .........always ! !

Re: 08 CJ goes 9.62 in A/S
 

Jack,
The system may catch up to these cars in full "some day." But, Chad is referring to gifts that were given to these cars in first place. Just to say the system has worked and that makes everything OK is not the whole story. These cars should have been fairly factored in the first place. This is a low 9.40's pass in AA. What was it that you said last year?

Re: 08 CJ goes 9.62 in A/S
 

If my feeble calculations are close to correct, one more hit like this one will bring the 2008 cars to the brink of extinction in Stock. It appears that this will put them at about 453 horsepower and at a break of 7.14. When they reach 6.99 horsepower per pound, we'll find out how serious NHRA is about leveling the playing field. Of course, there's always the option available to the Competition Committee to hit them with an index penalty instead of a horsepower adjustment the way they have done in the case of the SS/AH cars. Another .15 on the index of A/S would be a piece of cake for the '08 Mustangs.

Re: 08 CJ goes 9.62 in A/S
 

Bruce -- I'll say the same thing this year as I said last -- you must let the system do its job - if we did things your way there would never be any new cars built - you simply can't put HP on because you think they will be great ............On track numbers are the only fair way . BTW, just for the record I agree they have most of us covered but .............well ,lets just say the "horse" ( no pun intended ) is out of the barn so lets deal with it .

Re: 08 CJ goes 9.62 in A/S
 

maybe time for nhra to go back to having fuel injected classes just my two cents

Re: 08 CJ goes 9.62 in A/S
 

I don't think the LS1 cars want any of the CJ's either. maybe a FORCED INDUCTION class

Re: 08 CJ goes 9.62 in A/S
 

Jack,
Actually, you had many things to say about this issue. You accused some of us of smoking "something" when we revealed the potential of these cars. You also said there was no way the CJ's could run this fast and seemed very eager to mix it up with us on this issue. Well, you were wrong! And yes nhra should get the horsepower as close as possible before allowing new cars to compete. Don't forget the AHFS is used to remove HP as well. Ask the Mopar guys about the so called NASCAR Hemi. But of course the Challenger is in the same boat with the CJ's. These cars clearly got a pass from nhra. History will not be very kind to those who try to protect this ruse.

Re: 08 CJ goes 9.62 in A/S
 

Unless Fezell is in a convertible, the 08 Mustang does not fit A/S class. The coupe HP to weight ratio is 7.38 which means it has to add weight to fit the minimum weight break of 7.50 for AA/S. NHRA allows the addition or removal of weight to go up or down 1 class, not 2. I hope that Fezell teched the car as a AA/S and it is just a recording error that the car is in A/S. If he teched it in as A/S, we have another Bogacki, McClanahan mistake, unless he is a convertible.

Larry

Re: 08 CJ goes 9.62 in A/S
 

never mind, it appears the car is a coupe judging by auto imagery

Re: 08 CJ goes 9.62 in A/S
 

Yes Bruce I was wrong ! ! But you can't live in the past -- deal with it .It seems to me you don't agree with the way things are being run - that's your choice -
but the rest of us are still out there trying .

As for getting the HP correct -- these was no way anyone knew - even you -- that they would be this good .And I'm still hopeful that history will be kind to me .. I've tried very hard to contribute in a positive manner .

Re: 08 CJ goes 9.62 in A/S
 

Jack,
We aren't living in the past. This nonsense is being played out right now. We had plenty of advance notice on these cars.

Re: 08 CJ goes 9.62 in A/S
 

I obviously don't have a dog in this pony show but it was pretty clear what was going to happen from the get-go and anyone who said otherwise was completely blind to the situation. I like to think I have a pretty good idea of the kind of horsepower it takes to run AA and A and at what weight. During my stint with Source Interlink Media, we were at E-town almost every weekend with brand new Mustangs, Corvettes, and just about everything else and guys were practically throwing on a set of slicks, headers, intake and a smaller pulley and running close to130+ mph. Let's also keep in mind that the factory boost on a GT500 is somewhere around 7 pounds and a typical street pulley change creates around 10 pounds of boost. The CJ's are at.....14-16 pounds of boost from the factory.

The main problem I saw was that some of the first hp numbers we were seeing from these cars was around 700, maybe a little more. Of course that is a lot of power but not enough for an 8-second pass (something these cars WILL DO and Bruce and I have been saying since 2008). What a lot of people seemed to forget was that the torque/power curve of these cars cars is a "box" meaning that a 700 horsepower supercharged motor at 15 pounds of boost is making AT LEAST 700 lb-ft of torque down low.

I think the CJ's are pretty cool and the fact that most of them are now only AA cars basically brings us right back to where things were 3 years ago before the class even existed. The Mopars however are a completely different story and I don't know enough about them only to be able to say they are wicked fast and hopefully will join the CJ's in AA. Let's not forget that Ford's whole plan two years ago was a class specifically for the CJ, new Challenger, and new Camaro and that's personally something I would love to see.

My general feeling is that NHRA just doesn't care enough to tell Ford the proposed horsepower ratings are ridiculous. (Take a look at the 2010 428ci fuel-injected motor rated at 378 for a good chuckle.) Unfortunately these crazy ratings are going to hurt the class in the long run. Gone are the days of searching for 5 horsepower over the winter. The gear heads getting dirty under race cars with blood, sweat, and tears between rounds tweaking every last nano-second out of his race car is soon going to be a thing of the past.

In the midst of a recession where people may not have sure whether to go to the far-away race, NHRA gave people without $80,000 sitting around a great reason to stay home.

Re: 08 CJ goes 9.62 in A/S
 

Well he had a coupe, does he now have a convertible ?

Coupe is below AA, so won't make A

So 1st question, what is it ?

I hope he built a conv over the winter

Re: 08 CJ goes 9.62 in A/S
 

Or they just got the year wrong and its 2010 like the Howell car.

Re: 08 CJ goes 9.62 in A/S
 

pic of the car

https://www.autoimagery.com/store/cg...zell&x=19&y=12

Re: 08 CJ goes 9.62 in A/S
 

Make a new weight brake for the high hp cars.

Hammer

Re: 08 CJ goes 9.62 in A/S
 

1 1798 H/S Evan Smith, Valrico FL, '93 Cobra 10.994 12.00 -1.006
2 1587 AA/S Don Fezell, DuBois PA, '08 Mustang 9.623 10.60 -0.977

Re: 08 CJ goes 9.62 in A/S
 

They just revised Stock qualifying and Fezell is in AA/S.

http://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCSt...00240#indextop

Re: 08 CJ goes 9.62 in A/S
 

well the world is safe agian

Re: 08 CJ goes 9.62 in A/S
 

I do have a dog in this fight, and I know I can't run with the CJ's. Should I just quit racing, should I move to another class. Should I write NHRA letters. Should I come to this forum and tell everyone its not fair.

I have allot of money in my car, but I know that racing is dynamic and things can change very fast. Is it fair or right, I don't know, but I do know the history of NHRA, and this is not the first time a combo has come out that has an advantage and it will not be the last.


With respect to everyone that has a different opinion then mine. Your are a small minority when it comes to this subject. Most of the complaints come from people who do not race or race very little. How many people that run AA and A have come on here expressing their displeasure with these new comb's? I have talked to many racers in my class and although they may feel the CJ's have the wrong factor they seem to accept that this is the way it is, it was done it the past and it is being done now. Some are building these new combos, other are moving to another class.

My opinion, these new classes are good for stock, and I hope we see new faces. Stock is not what it was in the 60's and it never will be. Its an expensive sport if you want to run fast.

I also do not feel stock is on the way out as some do. Judging by Class Racer statistics, its has a very large audience. Class Racer's stats have grown every month for the last two years, Stock and Super Stock having been the largest increase.

Things change, fair or not, if you can't except what NHRA has done, you only have two choices choice. If I felt as strong as you guys about the new combo's. I would write NHRA, and if things did not change I would move on. I can except that I have no control when it comes NHRA. Has it been a perfect relationship, nope, but its something I can deal with. Judging by the entry list in Charlotte, a 165 stock and super stockers do to.

Fezel is in AA/S not A/S, I guess they still had his info from last year when he was in A.

Re: 08 CJ goes 9.62 in A/S
 

Im with you dartman I was headed for the cellar, but Bruce and Chad were in my way.LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Dale

Re: 08 CJ goes 9.62 in A/S
 

I take it back -- Evan is no longer Avis -- Congrats my friend ! ! ! !

Re: 08 CJ goes 9.62 in A/S
 

The CJ's have proven our point on this issue. Throw out this run and you still have the same problem. Some say it's OK for nhra not to do it's job in an equitable fashion. Not me. I have written to nhra over the years and usually get no response (like most people), but it is always authentic western gibberish when they do respond. One more thing, many, many racers are unhappy with these new cars being forced down our throats but they are not willing to come out here and deal with the snarks who use cheap shots, nor do they want to be told what to do with their lives or racing programs for that matter. Yes, we are going to deal with it but that does not mean that we have to like it or even shut up about it.

Re: 08 CJ goes 9.62 in A/S
 

hold the phone guys he was listed in the wrong class
AA/S now,
Congrad's to Evan being new #1 Q

Re: 08 CJ goes 9.62 in A/S
 

Well I remember in the 70s the 351C caused quit a stier, then it was the FWD's then the trucks, the LT1,LS1, maybe a 318,360 on the way and lets not forget the 428 Shelby ( my favorate of all) and here we are today a few leading the way and a lot still complaining. somethings never change.
Dale

Re: 08 CJ goes 9.62 in A/S
 

see what you started Joe....lol

Re: 08 CJ goes 9.62 in A/S
 

God you guy's won't leave NHRA and these cars alone even when you are wrong!!! The car was miss classified. That is simple truth. This gentleman goes fast everywhere he goes. He could have gone .2 faster without getting horspower. It is very fast in Gainsville. I know it doesn't make it right, but I had to deal with all the F.I. GM's and there underrated numbers for years. That was not that big of a problem to you guy's because they were not Fords. Like it or not , both Chryler and Ford are supporting sportsman racing. How many class's do Chryler and Fords dominate? You guy's are just like our Politicians. Nobody cares about being fair. You just don"t want to share with anyone.

Re: 08 CJ goes 9.62 in A/S
 

Bob,
Please take the time to read my post which you quoted. We all know about the glitch on the sheet.

Re: 08 CJ goes 9.62 in A/S
 

that is a pretty stout run..

Re: 08 CJ goes 9.62 in A/S
 

I'm not griping about the new Mustangs even though it's made my Max Wedge obsolete before I finish it, but I have a question.

In the past the NHRA has moved special cars like these straight into SS due to there limited availability and the fact that they were not available for the street ie: '68 Hemi cars, A990 Mopars, '64 aluminum Hemi cars, etc. Specialty built cars went to SS, so why is this instance different?

Here's something to ponder, forget about the fact that the following cars don't fit the Stock weights, but what would happen if they let the '65 A990 Hemi cars into Stock along with the same '64 aluminum Hemi cars? Would they even be competitive against the blown Mustangs?

JimR

Re: 08 CJ goes 9.62 in A/S
 

Jim, I`m pretty sure the reason that the 68 Hemi Darts & Cudas, 64 Hemi cars etc were in S/S rather than Stock was not due to them being purpose built, non street duty cars, but rather simply the NHRA HP/weight factor. Since NHRA opened up the AA/S & SA classes for cars that would have been previously factored "too low" for A, ie under 8lbs per HP, that opened up the possibility for the "new" race package" cars, as well as some older cars that were under the 8 lb thresh hold, like the 64 Ford Fairlane ThunderBolt, and the 427 2x4 barrel 66-67 Fairlanes, as well as several others from Mopar & GM, I believe. As for the seperate "forced induction" classes some are asking for, nobody seemed to get bent out of shape when the FWD Turbo MoPars were always qualifying at the top in Stock, maybe because these "lower class" cars didn`t concern most of the upper class racers, and due to inconsistancy, didn`t prove to be a major threat once eliminations were under way.

Re: 08 CJ goes 9.62 in A/S
 

Just wondering? Hows that minus -3 tenths working for us?

Re: 08 CJ goes 9.62 in A/S
 

[QUOTE=Bruce Noland;174949]Bob,
Please take the time to read my post which you quoted. We all know about the glitch on the sheet.[/QUOTE Bruce, could your explain your post to me if I misunderstood it. If you don't count the AA/s run, the next fastest CJ Qualified in the 20's at .7plus under. You all know the glitch on the sheet now, but not one apologized for all the chatter before it was corrected. I stand by my referance to calling you guys Politicians. Even when the facts are wrong, you think your not!!!!!!!!

Re: 08 CJ goes 9.62 in A/S
 

Bob,
Check the stats for these cars from last year. And we ain't politicians but of course you can stand by your statement all you please.

Re: 08 CJ goes 9.62 in A/S
 

[QUOTE=Bob Moulton;174972]Bruce -- Seems like you ruffled more than a few feathers here - your entitled to your opinion like anyone else but your "Mad as Hell and I'm not going to take it anymore" attitude just doesn't cut it and maybe , just maybe you should backtrack a little bit ....or just go out into the garage and resume working on that Corvette of yours ! ! ! Or are you looking for a bridge ....................

Re: 08 CJ goes 9.62 in A/S
 

Here is a band-aid for the ford situation AA/SF and AA/SFA looks like they may need their own index anyway. It will not hurt NHRA other than a couple more class trophies, occasionally. Of course, if the manufactures keep up the good (hp) work and availability of buying a factory race car, they may eventually have to make some 5 lb classes.

Curious, was Don Fezell a stocker racer prior to 2009? I couldn't find anything earlier on DRC search.

keep smiling!
Ernie

Re: 08 CJ goes 9.62 in A/S
 

Jack,
I think I'll look elsewhere to find a role model for advice. But thanks just the same. BTW, I never said anything about being angry. Just my 2 cents worth thats all.

The CJ's numbers from this moring: 60' = 1.418, 330' = 4.022, 660' = 6.185, @113.68mph, 1000' = 8.052, 1/4 = 9.623 @ 143.57mph. I think that is the most mph run by a Stocker at an nhra event. How many times has this car been raced?