SRAC Meeting in Gainsville
 

We did meet in Gainsville....several issues were discussed...I will get the minutes...frankly the super classes don't have that many issues compared to the others.....Tom Compton reiterated their support for the sportsman division...He sounded embarrassed to hear some of the trivial issues that some of the guys had....that they hadn't fixed them...

We did discuss track prep a little.....I asked why a national is more treacherous than most divisionals....They said outside of the Phoenix problem....they have prepped the tracks with the same VHT cut with methanol as they have for several years.....divisions are more the division crew which is totally different....may be a different compound or whatever....

they said they don't spray after 900 feet so the Fuel cars don't chunk their tires....but before prostock they spray the entire 1320....

The next meeting will be in Chicago....if you guys have something you'd like to discuss...let me know and I will bring it in front of the group...

We have hit on:

Super street at more nationals....unlikely
Higher payouts of course....Unlikely but we still are trying

I am working on:
getting rid of the super street Scotty rule....
Shortening the waiting in lines at nationals.....

Rock

Re: SRAC Meeting in Gainsville
 

How about 5 years on chassis stickers,and seat belts
I am tired of replacing stuff that is like new
some of the sfi experation dates are too soon on parts
in these economic times money has to go further
anybody else feel this way?
Ray Fordyce Jr
Fordyce Motorsports

Re: SRAC Meeting in Gainsville
 

I like how your thinking...

Re: SRAC Meeting in Gainsville
 

How about making the Nat. event tracks do some improvements in the pits.,. more asphalt.

Re: SRAC Meeting in Gainsville
 

I'm with Ray on this. Unless you change something on your chassis or as long as their no rule changes 5 years sounds feasible but I don't think it will happen because NHRA and/or manufacturers will lose $ or they'll start charging more.

Re: SRAC Meeting in Gainsville
 

I think Ray's comments should be seriously considered.

Can we compromise a little?

Option 1:
Add at least one year onto the chassis certs (4 yrs) and a year onto the the seat belts (3 yrs).

Option 2:
Keep the chassis certs at 3 years but add a year to the belts (3 yrs)

I feel if we ask for the world that the NHRA won't even consider listening.

Re: SRAC Meeting in Gainsville
 

Rock, is anyone trying to get Diapers on the Super Stockers? The biggest delay I sit thru in the lanes is SS oil downs. I know they are a pain, but in MHO, all cars should have them. Does driving thru your own oil realy seam like a good idea? I know the suspension issues with these cars, but a pan, something. Even if I ran a Stocker or Super Street for 170 dollars, I would not want to wreck my car. Now I am not picking you out here but, with all the time, money and hard work you have in your Beauty of a car, how would you feel if you wrecked in your own oil?

The chassis inspection comes down to run numbers for me, not years. Belts, I understand other forms of racing have longer terms. I think 2 years is too short. Remember manufactures are part of the regulation process and they want to sell product.

Re: SRAC Meeting in Gainsville
 

Jeff, I run a diaper on my SS 69 camaro and I agree it should be a priority for all. The class crowd will only go along with it once they lose their 50k plus car, which I have already done. Plus they run ridiculous overly custom oil pans that pose most of the problems. Heck most SSers pull the motor often enough that putting a diaper on when the engine is out shouldn't be a problem.

Re: SRAC Meeting in Gainsville
 

"The possible lowering of indexes in the super categories opened up more discussion. Is it time to lower the indexes which have been at the .90 mark for what seems like eons? Stock and Super Stock had their indexes lowered three tenths this year and the Comp indexes are always evolving."


So what was some of the discussion at the SRAC about this topic ?

Re: SRAC Meeting in Gainsville
 

Essentially Top Sportsman and Top Dragster covers that. SS and stock lowered the indexes for performance related reasons that affect records.

Re: SRAC Meeting in Gainsville
 

Most SG cars can not run TS [Especially since a lot are roadsters] , many do not have a chassis that could pass the 25.4 spec.............., plus if I wanted to go bracket racing ,which is all TS is, I 'd go to a local track and save lot's of money!......Performance levels have advanced way beyond those that dictated the 9.90 index when it was established . ..............4 or 5 tenths off the indexs would probable not affect many racers negatively. ...............I'd love a 8.90 or 8.50 door car heads up class , similar to the Nostalga Gas classes. ...............I like dragsters , but again If I wanted them in the other lane ,I'd be bracket racing. .................My 2 cents ........Tom

Re: SRAC Meeting in Gainesville
 

In a case like Gainesville where the weather virtually killed the majority of the Sportsman racing until Sunday, why not allow competitors stuck in a situation like that the opportunity to transfer their entry? With most of the fields not filling anyhow, what's the big deal? It sure would be a show of Good Faith on NHRA's part (I know, I know NHRA and "Good Faith" in the same sentence is a bad mix....) instead of just shoving the entry fee into their back pockets with nothing in return for the racer that spent the resources to attend the event.... I also agree with Ray on the 5-year chassis cert. and belts idea, especially after those timely price hikes they shoved down out throats with no warning last year.

-Don

Re: SRAC Meeting in Gainsville
 

The roadways to the lanes would have had inches of mud on them if this was allowed. I had to use my golf cart to get from the road (mud hole) to the motorhome and or trailer for 2 days. The Pros use these same roads to come back from their runs. It would have ruined the race period. I understand that folks want to pack up and leave. But be realistic, if we want to run at National Events, we will have to make concessions to the Pros, sorry but no one but my wife and freinds comes to see me race. The same is true for all of you (meaning your wife/ sig other and freinds) sportsman racing is not a real big draw, you have to know to much to understand it, so you grew up with or started to do so.

Lowering the class indexex will not happen in MHO, you would be asking some folks to spend money that they dont have. Not everyone wants to go faster. If you run Super Street, you can move up to Super Gas, if you run Gas you can move up to Super Comp. If your bored to tears inb Super Comp, you can go Top Dragster and or Top Sportsman racing. Still bored, go to Pro Mod or Pro Stock, or move up to Alcohol Classes, then Fuel! My point is, it is all covered. In nearly one second intervals. Speeding up the Super Catagories is almost if not completely a dead horse.

I am glad to hear mannymen runs a diaper, I have a 69 Z as well and would cry if I hurt it.

Re: SRAC Meeting in Gainsville
 

Jeff first off I would drive all the way to Florida to watch you as long as I was in the other lane and take the stripe by .001....ha. How many rigs pulled out on the own or how many were pulled out??

Brian

Re: SRAC Meeting in Gainsville
 

Mr Fordyce has a rightful question, considering most seat belts for F16, F18 are made to last ten years(mostly due to stretching and are made of the same material) belts could easily last five years. Since the inception of S/st, S/G and S/C I've enjoyed the racing but with throttle stops the fun of watching them has eroded, just this week friends were saying how much they hated watching the super classes at the Winters but loved T/s since no throttle stop were used. Could we get rid of the throttle stop or time delay and have full throttle all the way to the end. I know that a lot more people would enjoy it. Please don't use the braking argument since new braking system could stop most 747. Just me three cents.

Re: SRAC Meeting in Gainsville
 

Brian you won by 7/10,000 of a second not a thousand! I only saw one rig get a tug out and I watched him burry it.

Re: SRAC Meeting in Gainsville
 

If it is not for you and you do not like it, go find something else to do. Some of us like it.

Re: SRAC Meeting in Gainsville
 

Mr Hall I like all type of drag racing, just want to make it easier for novice to like it also. You shouldn't be upset, just see if some improvement could be modified in it for a better viewing for the paying customer. Nothing I hate more than see the stands empty when the Super's are called, it wasn't always that way before throttle stops. I can remember the first year at INDY the stand were full throughout elimination.

Re: SRAC Meeting in Gainsville
 

For me.. Stock and Super Stock are the most fun to watch, but who are you kidding? Ever look in the stands at ANY event? Not like they are packing the stands either. Even during last weeks airing of the Gators on NHRA Sunday morning show, they had super stock running in the back drop. Stands were EMPTY. So dont blame classes. Besides, why as a racer do you give a **** about how many fans are in the bleachers?

Re: SRAC Meeting in Gainsville
 

Guys as far as the super classes you either like them or you hate them. Typically its the guy behind the wheel that loves it. If they take the stops off it's just a bracket race like stock/SS, unless its heads up. If I want to bracket race all the time I would stay home and go to the local tracks and drive home at night. I personally like class racing with the stop. The uneducated person does not really know what it takes to run the number. I don't know about most of you guys but for me it takes a little more then sticking a number in the box and running. I have friends who just don't understand why the car slows down then speeds up but they also don't understand why a guys leaves before the other bracket racing.

Drag racing is simple, love it or leave it. There is alot of improvement NHRA could make but any company could make improvements for it's customers in any buisness. Don't get me wrong. I bitch too about some of their practices and rules that make no sense.

Rock the Scotty rule needs to go away S/ST is as tough as S/G or S/C. The belts need a 5 year rule. etc, etc all are good changes.

Enough of the rant!

Re: SRAC Meeting in Gainsville
 

I am mostly a bracket racer but I have raced in Super Comp. I have a crazy suggestion that I think might work. What if we do away with the super classes and have a bracket race at national events instead?

• Only open it to racers from within the division. This would accomplish several things. It would cut down on travel. It would allow fans to see locals. This would be a great promotion for the local tracks’ weekly programs. Local racers could offer a local sponsor some excellent exposure.
• Fans like seeing staggered starts and seeing different body styles race each other.
• Limit the ET to some thing like 7.50 and let the fast cars (TS, TD) have their own class. Ban throttle stops in the class.
• Most super class cars can bracket race so this would not be a big deal.
• Combine the purse money from the 3 classes and offer a bigger pay out.

I know this is out there but I think it would work.

Re: SRAC Meeting in Gainsville
 

Hey afbarret! Nice first post. The .90 Heads up guys in this section are going to love you! LOL

Re: SRAC Meeting in Gainsville
 

Sounds like he'll always be a mostly bracket racer................

Re: SRAC Meeting in Gainsville
 

Please understand that I was just thinking outside the box. I love all kinds of drag racing and I have been a racer for over 20 years. I race in brackets, SG and SC and like all of them. I enjoy the challenges of working with my throttle stop very much. I was just looking at a way to balance fan intrest with sportsman racing. I wish I had the money and time to travel to divisionals and national events but I don't so that is why I bracket race. Also my thoughts are influenced because I race in NJ and to get into a national event in SC locally you wind up needing 6+ grading points. Again I was just throwing this out there to see peoples opinions and in no way did I mean to disrespect any racer.

P.S. This is not my first post but it has been a while. I am not sure why the system shows that.

Tony Barrett
SP/SC 166H

Re: SRAC Meeting in Gainsville
 

Rock's probably reading all this thinking "oh hell here we go AGAIN"... :D

Re: SRAC Meeting in Gainsville
 

I agree w/ Tony. As a racer, why do we care if the stands are filled. Sure it's nice to feel like part of the show. It's not like NHRA will decrease entry or increase the payout for the class racers. We pay to race whether there are people in the stands or not. We don't get paid to just show up. We are the filler to entertain while the "real show" is preparing. It is up to NHRA to get the butts in the seats. Don't they promote the meet and greet w/ the "pro" drivers. When are the spectators able to do so if they are watching us class racers. My 2 cents

Re: SRAC Meeting in Gainsville
 

Well kmyers , don't hold back tell them what ya think.

Re: SRAC Meeting in Gainsville
 

Kmyers, "We are the filler to entertain while the "real show" is preparing." That is incorrect!

We are the purse payers for the "real show" and that is all. When payouts increase for the PROs then our entry fees will also increase ceteris paribus

Re: SRAC Meeting in Gainsville
 

Having the stands full is not about stroking my ego while I'm racing. When I'm on the track, I couldn't tell you whether there was 2 or 200,000 people in the stands. I'm just not paying attention to that.

But, with 2 people in the stands, our chances of EVER getting ANY additional money, respect, attention, etc. from NHRA is Z-E-R-O, ZERO! OTOH, if there are 200,000 people in the stands while we are racing, we have a lot more bargaining power. Remember, something like 75% of the revenue generated by NHRA was due to the paying SPECTATOR gate.

I will race regardless of how many people are there, as will almost all of you because we all love to race (and that is part of the problem - NHRA knows this and is using our passion against us). But, it would be a LOT nicer to have to fund less of my racing operation myself and have the paying spectator help defray those costs.

If the NHRA charged an extra $1/day per .90 class and passed that long to us, we'd have about an extra $30,000 in our purse on a given weekend. Why don't they do this? Because they perceive (most likely correctly) that the spectator would not see this as providing value to them. The sad truth is that if you gave the option to reduce the cost of the current spectator's entry fee by $10 for the weekend, but in exchange they could not watch the .90 classes from the stands when we were racing, my guess is that the overwhelming majority would take the discount.

So, all that said, we are NEVER going to see any beneficial changes with regard to our payout with the current format / rules of the .90 classes. The spectators have spoken, and they find our style of racing boring to watch (hence, the empty stands), and IMHO the downfall of these classes is due to the electronics and/or throttle stops. People don't want to watch cool, fast looking cars pull up to the line and drive away like my wife's minivan.

And you can't tell me that rules changes can't make this work. Have any of you seen the number of people sitting in the stands at a Pinks All-Out race? The quality of cars at these events isn't even close to what we have at the typical NHRA National Event in S/G & S/C, and as a whole the drivers couldn't hold a candle to the skill of the average driver in S/C or S/G at an NHRA National Event. Yet, fans still FLOCK to these events to watch these cars make passes down the track, even though the vast majority of the action they see in any one day is nothing but time trials.

What's the difference? These cars are running ALL-OUT. They even have breakouts, though they don't call them that, they say the car went "TOOOOO FAST" (said in my best Rich Christensen voice). Granted, it's more of a carnival atmosphere with the car show, swap meet, Joie Chitwoodesque stunt performers, but I don't think people are sitting in the stands waiting to see the next motorcycle stunt.

In the end, I love racing my car, and will whether you pay me anything or not at the end of the day. But, I can't say that I'm happy with the current state of racing with NHRA taking all of our money, and neither should any of you. But, the ONLY way that will change is if our classes change. I'm always looking for ways to make improvements whether it be in my personal life, profession, or racing operation, and doing the same thing over and over again is going to provide the same results. So, unless you're willing to make some type of change to put more butts in the seats, don't complain about entry fees, replacing seat belts, 3 year chassis tag certification expirations, mufflers, diapers, class quotas, grade points, HazMat rules, or anything of the sort because NHRA is holding all the cards, and they know it.

As an alternative, I would recommend running your local S/C, S/G, S/St series as they probably don't give a crap about your seat belts, chassis certification expiration, mufflers, diaper, grade points, or have any quotas or HazMat rules. Plus they cost a hell of a lot less to run, and they don't have all those pesky spectators in the stands to possibly distract us.

Soapbox mode off - I'm going back to lurking.

Let the flames begin...

Re: SRAC Meeting in Gainsville
 

Maybe more of the tracks need to take lessons from the Bader's. I went to my first race at Norwalk last year for the divisional. I was absolutely amazed on the number of spectators there. Even though it was raining, and with a forcast of rain for the remainder of the evening, there was a line of cars trying to get into the track, just to watch. Hundreds of them. The Bader's know how to put on a show.

And eliminating the super classes, and throttle stops. That'll make a lot of Don Davis roadsters worth nothing. It's way too hard to keep the front end down on one of them running flat out, unless you are running a low hp motor. Had a 937hp 632 in it, had to move the instant center in the rear forward, drop the wheelie bars way down, plus launch at only 3200 rpms when running flat out to keep the car under control. Any higher launch rpm and it would carry the wheels 100ft, and by that time, who knows which direction you were pointed. On the stop though, I could launch off the converter if I needed to. Personally, I like the super classes, probably because I know how difficult it is to run them and be competitive. At US Nationals, I might watch the pros once the whole weekend, but watch 10 times the amount of sportsman rounds.

Re: SRAC Meeting in Gainsville
 

The Baders do an excellent job putting on a show along with promoting their events, that's what puts the people in the stands. They don't expect the racer to explain or adjust the classes for the lack of spectator knowledge. The Baders treat the racers as family and understand what it means to promote and operate a quality event. I thing or two could be learned.

I agree w/ the extended dating on belts, chasis, bell housing, ect........... Every little bit helps, even if it is just a year longer.

Re: SRAC Meeting in Gainsville
 

Until someone can magically move the stands to the finish line for the sUPER cATAGORIES, we will not ever be a fan favorite.

I too have no clue if there are fans in the stands when I drive, I try not to think about a car next to me before 1000 feet either.

The only REASONABLE solution I can see for all who want to speed up the Super Classes would be to AD a 7.90 class. Maybe Super Eliminator, Super Duper, Super Stupid, sorry I want my post to be longer than Jason (soap box) Oldfield's!

I know that we would alll benefit from 5 year belts etc, just remember you are bucking commerce. Vendors and Sanctioning bodies, all make money from these reoccuring fees, so a lot of hard work and politicing would be needed. I fear we ask too much of our Sportsman Advisors as it is.

In MHO Pinks works because, it is on TV, the rules are simple for fans to grasp, the average American wants to be entertained without thinking too hard! Cold Beer, Get Ya Cold Beer Here.

Re: SRAC Meeting in Gainsville
 

Mr Hall, the only reason I care about how many people stay in their seats are for the economics of racing.More people who enjoy all classes, will support them at their local tracks where on occasion some forward thinking track owner might put a show that includes all Super Classes and S,S/S. with their bracket racing event. I hope I'm wrong but we need to make sure that all super classes survive. It's one of the most progressive form of racing right now. Like I've said it's only my opinion. Thank you all for letting me express it. Claude Ruel

Re: SRAC Meeting in Gainsville
 

I have noticed the stands fill up when the snowmobiles run,I think its time to get one.

Re: SRAC Meeting in Gainsville
 

Maybe this is the sign we need to post in the stands.

Re: SRAC Meeting in Gainsville
 

Mr. Oldfield,................ amen!,

Re: SRAC Meeting in Gainsville
 

gary , you have cold beer?

Re: SRAC Meeting in Gainsville
 

Cold beer, doubt it but have Cuervo in freezer.

Re: SRAC Meeting in Gainsville
 

Really snowmobiles? well I guess legend cars are next to fill the stands.Ok, I'm wrong. Claude Ruel

Re: SRAC Meeting in Gainsville
 

There use to be fans in the stands for Super Gas when it first came out and then some dumb head made the timers and everybody thought they needed to go 180 mph at 9.90 and turned into Stop and Go Gas (SC followed along), which killed any normal spectator from watching, end the timers and pack the bleachers again.

Do it before some dumb head parks there 180 mph SG in the lights and trashes out the normal 150 mph one in the other lane