Mixing bearings for clearance
 

Ok, I can say have never personally done this (yeah I havent)

It has always and I mean always sounded just "wrong" but I also havent built a stock eliminator motor from "scratch" so....instead of things I havent done, onto things I may have to do. And I actually cant be playing with the crank a whole lot on this motor to get the clearances Id like....I a)dont have time b)bought the last crank in stock from Ma Mopar in the country :)

I know were talking hundredths of thousanths, any issues on this ? I dont see any other than my "im used to roller bearings" aversion.

Also, and I know this is a "preference" but since its my first Stock elim motor. On a say rod, where am I looking to be for a motor that is going to be beat to death with minimal breakin of course. I was thinking .0026-0028 ? Is this sounding inline with what others are doing on say a SBC "stocker" ? Same journal size and bearings....

Im using coatings on the crank so Ive got to take that into account, but well.....Gotta do the motor asap......

Cheers

Chris

Re: Mixing bearings for clearance
 

Common practice . ...Used to be common among manufacturers before machining tolerences became critical to emissions performance. ......AMC used to color code it's cranks ,different colors for different sizes..0005"plus or minus was common. ........Just be sure to use the smaller size brg on the top on the rods and the bottom on the mains. .....Tom
=

Re: Mixing bearings for clearance
 

It is perfectly normal and acceptable to mix bearing halves. It done regularly to attain the clearance wanted. The clearance numbers you mentioned are fine, personally I would trend toward .003 - .0032

Re: Mixing bearings for clearance
 

Even on a coated crank and bearings ? Im curious as to the reasoning, I think I know but , thinking and knowing are 2 different things.

Cheers

Chris

Re: Mixing bearings for clearance
 

Chris...there is a lot of good info here......I have used this procedure for mixing bearings and it never failed me.....


http://www.enginebearings.com/it_bearinginstall.asp

If you will accept a little advice........Bearing clearance is usually safer on the looser end of a set of specs.......0027" to .0032' is a good range for most engines........

You can buy coated bearings in all the sizes they offer or have them coated. The coating reduces your clearance from uncoated and the companies that do the coating can tell you how much per set.....

I have used coated Tri- Armor Clevittes and also had some done by Swain. Calico is another very good company for coating bearings........

Re: Mixing bearings for clearance
 

Thanks, I read that earlier and am going to print it out till I have "reflex", Im open, whats the worst that can happen ? At this point weve contributed over 900lbs to the Chineese scrap metal market :D

Im open to advice, always in the end I weigh it all and the pros and cons, sometimes I make the right decision sometimes not (when not I always say shiiiitttteee, shoulda done X)

Im hearing looser is good and on a motor with 0 run in before it gets flogged, I was just talking with the old man and we decided to target .003 +/- .0002 I think with the coatings that should be "safe" Are you running that across the board (mains and rods ?) Or just rod side ? My gut says a hair tighter on the mains, but well......I think that would be ok across the board.

Im doing my own coatings as usual, so Ive got 2 different coatings that I know and how much 1 is a pretty high build but sick tough, the other a little less durable over the long haul but pretty slick stuff, very very thin, Ive got to mic the cranks a bit better and see which will work better where, Id LIKE to use the Ceramic based but its a pretty high build. Im thinking on the Crank Ill use a moly di, and the bearings a ceramic IF I can clearance wise, already got the "test bearings an parts" set aside......time for the Apron and Cookie sheets ....

Can I have my roller bearings back ?!? :eek:

Re: Mixing bearings for clearance
 

General rule of thumb has always been stay above .0025" on clearance especially on the mains. What has a lot to do with it is the quality of the parts and how much do they tend to deform also how big they are and how much "grunt" does this engine make. Rods that easily go out of round...blocks, cranks and caps that are less likely to stay round....harmonics that might play into it....and balancing....all add into it....

I built a 555 for a racer and it had the absolute best of parts. It was alcohol injected and was abused pretty good with all kinds of poor tune up issues and some pretty stout rpm.....after 3 season I took it apart for freshening and the bearings were like new.....uncoated Clevitte H's.... clearances all around .003 or a little under....Titan oil pump......So good parts can take it.......and this is an engine making 900hp....

Basically you have to learn about your stuff and what it can take and what it needs....your working on something fairly new.....I have no idea why you hurt some engines but you need to figure it out...

My first question is when the rod broke in your last engine, did it spin a bearing first? If it did that is what hapened first, so your failure was from a spun bearing. If it did what was the clearances when you put that one together...what were you using for oil, and oil pressure and engine rpm....

You need to look at the failures and make changes.....

Loose is good tight is not....coatings won't stop a failure if your parts are scuffing or you lose pressure....

Re: Mixing bearings for clearance
 

Basically you have to learn about your stuff and what it can take and what it needs....your working on something fairly new.....I have no idea why you hurt some engines but you need to figure it out...

First engine, I do know, not our issue, well not 100% :D
Second engine, well that was a judgment call to run, not mine, I didnt like the pressure drop I had seen in the engine from Dyno , to my day of testing to the next day, old man said, Im running it anyway, and he came out of the water a bit "hot" like , spinning really fast.....so that one ? Who knows....

My first question is when the rod broke in your last engine, did it spin a bearing first? If it did that is what hapened first, so your failure was from a spun bearing. If it did what was the clearances when you put that one together...what were you using for oil, and oil pressure and engine rpm....

Clearances were .0026 to .0028 We did not build the bottom end, the ONLY Rods that are "accepted" are SCAT Like the $300 Scat I beams, they do have ARP bolts. But well.....

Nope, On 1 (#3) it appears the bolts broke which would also bear with it coming out freespun at over 8k.....ehhemmm....with "questionable" pressure ? , bearing shells are laying in pan. The other one , well the holes in the block arent big enough to see it :eek: And the motor is still in the car.

You need to look at the failures and make changes.....

Loose is good tight is not....coatings won't stop a failure if your parts are scuffing or you lose pressure....

Oh I agree there, the only thing Im looking at those coatings to do is lenthen life a hair or against a temporary loss, like running from the pickup, but the accumulator should also take care of that, wear pattern on them by 1 - 2 percent would even be good.

I saw this engine apart after both breakin and after several dyno pulls, it couldnt have looked better, no unusual wear, all bearings looked actually better than I expected, very consistent.

That was done when I "signed off" on the bottom end.

BUT It looks as though there may have been other causes outside of that 1)Filtration flow issues 2)Acculator not , well accumulating, I have to look into the soelenoid, its POSSIBLE I was over , by a lot on oil and foaming it. Or.......Oiling is a known issue on this engine, the 5.7 Im going to run just like Doug Duell is, he well hasnt had these issues cant argue with Success :)

The "old man" said "When we tear this down were gonna see starvation:" I said, "Ok, but what if we dont ?" , His reply .... "Ill find something else to blame it on" .... as he smiled....

Re: Mixing bearings for clearance
 

Scat parts are somewhat questionable.....probably made in China...
Rods maybe can take it...bolts sound like they failed.
Possibly you can find a better rod that you can send to NHRA for aprroval...and make sure to use good bolts no matter what rods you use.

You can't make an engine go to an rpm that it is not going to survive at and if your driver insists on trying to go to a higher rpm than is safe......there must be a rev limiter capability in your ignition......I would suggest that you use it and especially on a burnout.....It is very easy to let the rpm get away from you. I use one in my dragster......I did not use one in any of my doorcars but I have made a lot of runs and always control that rpm during a burnout......There is really no need to do a burnout more than about 500 rpm above your converters flash rpm......so 6000 or maybe a bit more is gonna be plenty........8000 is reserved for Competition Eliminator entrants......LOL

Re: Mixing bearings for clearance
 

Getting another rod of better quality should not take long with NHRA. I've done it in less than two weeks. Eagle and Scat are not high on my list for quality parts. Try getting a Manley, Crower or Oliver. You don't have to run a specific bolt either. There are much better bolts out there than ARP 2000's which is what I assume you have. Go for a bolt with a much higher tinsel strength which requires greater torque to stretch the same amount.
I feel this is so important that missing some races is worth it. Blow up another engine and you'll want to have a bon-fire! Just get on the phone Monday morning and get it done.

Re: Mixing bearings for clearance
 

Its being done of the 3 we are building, 2 will get the Scat Rods and Diamond pistons, I wont say theyre throwaway motors, but their "life expectancy" is 5-10 events each. If we get that were good, the other the 3rd thats getting different slugs and different rods, both are "in process" to be approved and close, its an h beam rod better bolts

Im going to try to find a better bolt for these tommorow, you are right they are ARP 2000's I was going to check A1 and a couple others. These torque spec is 63 lbs ?

Pistons, well Im waiting on someone who frequents here to get on of the spec DP pistons to someone for the 5.7 the 6.1 is already in process ..... ahem :) (they were going to this week) So better options, I am half tempted to run a stock rod , that is legal as well, cant be any worse.....

I will say the first motor failed from a welded bearing and took a fastner loss, the rod took a good hit at 7k and well, it didnt break, it took a 30degree bend but held, THAT from a Scat rod I was actually suprised at, this one Ill have to look closer , if its a fastner issue, thats a lot easier to resolve FAST (Im not scat fan but that comes from years of VW friends and really nothing more than a bad association in my mind) I will say the Scat rod machine work and consistency is very spot on, suprisingly so. Others have found the same thing........so maybe just some good bolts, or better bolts I should say.

Thanks, a good point from both.....

Re: Mixing bearings for clearance
 

That was Grubbs suggestion 5 minutes after we all saw it turn into a 13 quart oil sprinkler.

Burnout limiter is now in place. :)

Also we have no braking from the trans because of the valve body, and well so it was no load free

Bolts.....

I am curious how this failed across the other rod as well, 2 on seperate journals same bank (drivers) makes me think it was the freespin.

Hard to know until I tear it apart, for that I need, the car, for that I need my DAMM trailer fixed......wrong axle in ....BAH. Im CLOSE to saying screw it and buy a new trailer......very very close....

Re: Mixing bearings for clearance
 

Whatever rod bolt you use you have to really be carefull how you tighten the bolts and what lube you use. I once had a rod bolt failure on a Crower billet stroker rod and it was definately from improper tightening of the rod bolts. I pulled a piston out of an engine I built in a friends car. Working conditions were very poor and when I put it back together I did not have the lube I needed to get those rod bolts torqued properly. I used oil. Crower at the time sepcified oil but there was NO WAY you could get those bolts to their specified torque with plain oil. They would tend to seize up with plain oil that is likely what happened. Sometime later during the season a rod came apart and it was the one I had out. Luckily all we needed was a couple new pistons and rods.....The orginal problem was from a head that leaked water in an intake port.....

I experimented and made my own rod bolt lube...oil and moly paste mixed together......stopped the seizing as the bolts were tightened

Crower supplied an anti-seize paste with later rods......as does ARP

So My point is rod bolt lube plays a huge part in getting the bolts installed properly. I used a torque wrench for many years with no issues. I also have a rod bolt stretch gauge and have used it as well. Some rods like Olivers use an initial torque + a torque angle gauge to set the bolts......Olivers are the best in my opinion......

Another one is to make sure the bolts fit properly.......It is possible for the rod bolt head to not seat in the rod properly.....rare but possible.....

I used Manley Sportsman rods in my LT-1 Stocker a few years ago...a very good rod for a SB Chev....and would probably be good in your application if you could get something to fit.....

Re: Mixing bearings for clearance
 

EXCELLENT Info.

Thanks, I have heard of a new lube from ARP that is "torque agnostic" and well that "its the ****" I have to call them and see if its "all that" but yeah oil sucks, depends all on thread finish.

Good info thanks.

Re: Mixing bearings for clearance
 

Chris
Look at the Manley #14460. It is approved and $$$$ since it is the only aftermarket rod approved so far.

Re: Mixing bearings for clearance
 

I've put in at least a couple hundred sets of Eagle rods. The only rods I've seen broke were rods that were in cylinders that had the entire cylinder wall collapse. The rods were bent nearly double before anything broke. And those were the I-beam rods. I've never had a broken Eagle H-beam rod, in anything I've built personally (and I've built plenty with them), although I know some who have.

I know several guys better than me, with more horsepower than me, and turning more RPM than me, who use Eagle H-beam rods. We have Eagle H-beam rods in the iron 427, and a new set to go in the new iron 427. They are the Eagle 6.135" H-beam rod with L-19 bolts and the "ESP Armor" option. With a 750 gram piston assembly (counting the piston, rings, locks, spacers, and pins) and turning no less than 7800 on every pass, we've got no problems.

If Eagle has an H-beam rod that will fit, get the L-19 bolts and the ESP Armor option, and get them approved, they should do fine. I know guys with 9000 RPM 850HP Super Stock engines with Eagle H-beam rods with L-19 bolts in them. If they wanted, or felt they needed, an Oliver or a Crower, I know for sure they can afford them.

Re: Mixing bearings for clearance
 

I can agree with Alan about Eagle H-beams......used them a few times and never had a failure. I had them in one of my own engines in my old dragster. Big Block alcohol injected 7 second car.......

I have seen the I beam SR rods fail though in a small block bracket engine with very few runs....

Re: Mixing bearings for clearance
 

Ill look, I know K1 has or will have an approved rod, H beam.

I need a 6.200 length and 927 pin ....

Stewart (there is a 'problem' with the Manley rods, nothing structural just an issue regarding its legality in Stock from what I understand from well people who should know .... lol)

Ill give you a call and thanks for the OP #'s

Re: Mixing bearings for clearance
 

I am going to say what others may be thinking, and don't take this the wrong way, but you need to align yourself with an stocker engine guy that knows what they are doing. Some of questions you ask, and some of the things you say about parts, rpm, and trick of the week coatings really scares me. If you don't, I'm afraid you may be in for a long, expensive education. If you do go it alone, then at least build just one motor to learn with, then if, or when, you have figured it out, spend money on the other motors you have planned. Again, don't take it as a slam, I'd just hate to see you have another oil pan failure.

Good Luck

Re: Mixing bearings for clearance
 

Another piece of advice........ditch the oil accumulator......I really see no reason for one on a stocker unless your playing with very low oil in the pan or it is doing giant wheelstands.......Makes no sense to have one on a car like this to me for the little gain you might get. If you had one on there and were having oil pressure loss issues....something was definately plumbed wrong....

I have one on my dragster (3 qt Moroso) and it has at times shown some erratic operation on the pressure gauge.....I believe it was from mounting clamps that were to tight and in locations on the can that could restrict the pistons movement......I took it off and moved the clamps to the outer ends of the can but have not put it back on to see if it's fixed......

I have no knowledge or experience with the oil system on one of these Mopar engines and as I recall Mopars were a little less trouble free than your run of the mill Chevs.....

Re: Mixing bearings for clearance
 

Well, no offense taken, absolutley none.

Im actually kinda liking you already,
a) youre not saying something I dont know
b)partially accurate, any innacuaracy is not by lack of insight or poor reasoning its actually sound reasoning on your part.
c)Said what others are probably thinking but said it in a very considerate and helpful manner.

No offense at all, quite the opposite, comment appreciated and honesty appreciated.

The coatings weve been using extensivley on bikes for 20 years, that "old hat" as it were, they cryo , thats new to me but well, in the end Im only looking to lengthen the failure curve across the board between cryo and coatings perhaps 5% so that is a reasonable application and expectation I feel.

As time allows my buddies over at (an unname defense contractor here)are going to use some of the "really" trick stuff that requires things like charged phosgene fields and stuff that well, makes me nervous to even touch afterward..lol..but finding time to get it in a prototrype batch of torpedo parts gets a little "when it can be done"....so later not for the next 2 or 3 motors :eek:

Youre right , the learing experience isnt going to be cheap but our next 3 motor will be under 10k for 3 , yes for 3 complete motors.....that is a)an assortmnent of parts we already had (5.7 blocks) new DP pistons, rods, bolts, timing, pans, heads 1 extra pair of DP heads, and all the other goodies, I am 2k under that now and have all the parts in house to do 3 more motors (well the last set of pistons is on its way) Sounds crazy but this stuff (NOT the DP Specific stuff pistons and pan) is CHEAP, like crank block, rods, bolts rckers, shafts, pushrods etc, all less pistons and pan... all under 2000..... (900 of that is block and we already had 2 new 5.7 "freebie blocks".....

I learn by doing, and failing, and succedding and lather rinse repeat.

I dont want someone else to build the motors, I heard things I didnt like about the "accepted or what I should do" in regards to clearances, funny thing is Im pretty sure I didnt like it , others have agreed it was too tight.

So I ask, I weigh, I decide. I do ask things I have an opinion on if I havent decided, I hear and bounce Ideas.

I expect 1 more motor failure before we have the "secret recipe of 11 herbs and coatings:D"

But youre right, we are going to build 1 of the planned 3 and run it, the old man still wants to do 2 but well.....there are "secret squirrel DP owner Kabal" reasons not to just quite yet. Some, several of these "errors" in items we have just found out over the last few days. (more than we alreay knew about and that was a lot....)

I was asked to look over a collection of antique camera equiptment last night, my friend asked me how I (at 38) am one of the few people in the states that can overhaul and repair a particular type shutter on a camera as I expained, its easy you just need to destroy about 10 irreplacable pieces in short order until you get it right :D

What me and my father have learned so far is, some things we thought were right were wrong, some things we were told were wrong and we were right and some things we would have never done had it not been for the failures will save us more grief in the future , but we learned by doing it....were hardheaded that way. But its how WE learn....

Thanks for your honest and sincere comment, I hope my post didnt offend it was only meant to give an insight into our thinking and our reasoning.

(PSThis new COMUTER Keyboard SUCKS ! Tommorow....FIX Other Laptop.....)

Cheers

Chris

Re: Mixing bearings for clearance
 

The very presence of it was at Mopars guidance for "oiling issue" or reduction of it, its going byebye on the next motor, maybe itll go back maybe not....

Were following Duells lead on this hes not running one either I know a few of the hemis ARE after the Tech bulletin and some prior failures (to ours)

I agree, I dont like it and I dont trust this solenoid and its operation. So its going byebye.....

At this point "were on our own" in regards to motors so, well, I dont have to explain why Im not running something they said to run.....easy..

Thanks

I do have a question in a SBC you are running how much rod offset do you have on a wrist pin from the perpindicular center ? This is a left field question but one for "refrence"

Cheers

Chris

Re: Mixing bearings for clearance
 

There is no offset on a small or big block chevy rod. Pin hole and crank pin holes are on center......

I can't think of any common engines that use offset rods. Pistons pushing on rods off center from the rod? I am not familiar with any engine that has this design....

Re: Mixing bearings for clearance
 

Its done in small bore engines all the time in their "street" trim, used to be more common it helps quiet forged slugs during expansion a bit and for example on a 2 stroke, well piston slap is a biggie since hanging ports is a great way to start a new small shiny part collection.

It was my understanding (apparently incorrect) that some of the small chevs did this commonly.

Not rather the rod is offset but from the journal to the pin in straight fashion is sometimes by say .030-070 pistons are also different for the pin offset.

I know in the LS stuff there is now a "offset rod" that puts it on center since the Hemi is using a LS 6.200 .927 rod, I wanted to see what options were available to get the CORRECT offset (as in 0) because the use of the Scat rods does just that it does not sit in the center of the pin, and my bearing sideload will be greater, cap stess on bolt greater at High RPM, and it would really flipping explain what I am seeing now on several motors in regards to the bearings along the radius side where the cranks mic perfect.....but it looks on the bearing like the journals arent square...

Like I said I thought the SBC was this way my bad.

Re: Mixing bearings for clearance
 

Stock pistons often have an offset but the rods themselves are not offset. The offset is about .060" on a small block......Maybe that is what you meant and I misunderstood the question......In Stock we often used TRW pistons and turned them around so the offset went the other way...... The TRW forged pistons that were used to build a 350 Stocker engine has the offset in the pin hole......L-2256.....forged flatop 4 valve relief......Hang them on the rods so the arrow that is normally facing forward is toward the rear......

I had a G-H/SA '69 Nova back in the '90's and built a "cheap" shortblock using those pistons.........Dykes rings with spacers......

Re: Mixing bearings for clearance
 

[QUOTE=Rich Biebel;176267]Maybe that is what you meant and I misunderstood the question......QUOTE]

It was, the answer was worded wrong, I have my kids over and I miswrote what I meant being shot at with a large plastic man from a cannon as well as dressin barbie dolls in between. Its like herding cats right now.


That was it.....I miswrote what I mean ,I used the phrase perpindicular to the center , and that was not even close to what I meant...

Wonder if there is a Leauge for herding cats ? Id be ace...

Re: Mixing bearings for clearance
 

Buy your self a good bolt stretch gauge and use it religiously, forget using a torque wrench on rod bolts. And use it when you check the big end of the round for straightness and roundness. You are doing that, aren't you? Use the bolt stretch gauge when you check the ID of the bearing in the rod, too.

The old rule of thumb "0.001" of clearance for every 1" of journal diameter" will do you just fine until you figure out the real needs of the engine. It holds true in most engines, especially when the rod journals are between 2.0" and 2.3", and when the main journals are between 2.3" and 2.75". This is if you are using any good race oil between 5W/20 and 15W/40. If you run 20W/50 (why?) go a little looser, if you run 0W/10, tighten it up some.

A properly plumbed accumulator will not cause a problem, an improperly plumbed accumulator will blow your engine.

I like coated bearings, I have mine done at HM Elliott. We could do our own, but considering the time and operation involved, we don't. Honestly, they sell me the bearings already coated cheaper than I can buy them and coat them myself, if I consider time, materials, and equipment. They now do the coating for Mahle Clevite. They coat my skirts, if I don't have it done when I buy the pistons.

Avoid the rest of the trick stuff. If it won't live at all without cryo and DLC, it won't live anyway. Yes, you can do that stuff later and maybe find some gains. But right now, you need something that runs and lives. Follow the number 1 rule of engineering, because it applies to racing just as well: KISS. Keep It Simple, Stupid. A wise old racer named Tom Polk once told me "Tricks are for kids, you pour 'em in a bowl, pour milk on 'em, and eat 'em". Some of the best advice I've ever gotten in well over 30 years of this stuff.

You need good solid machine work, and good solid basic parts. All of the other silly stuff will do nothing but cause you problems, at least until you have 3-4 good solid engines you've done that run well and last. After that, then you go fooling with the rest of it.

By the way, you've already met a real good guy to help you through all of this, Bill Grubbs. Talk to him, listen to him, and pay attention. He knows a lot more than he lets on, and he'll show you the ropes. He's no engine builder, and he'll tell you that. But he knows who IS an engine builder, and where to get good advice and information.

Re: Mixing bearings for clearance
 

Buy your self a good bolt stretch gauge and use it religiously, forget using a torque wrench on rod bolts. And use it when you check the big end of the round for straightness and roundness. You are doing that, aren't you?

Checking stretch, yeah normally, on these last 2 bottom ends no, we didnt put em together and well, yes we will.

The old rule of thumb "0.001" of clearance for every 1" of journal diameter" will do you just fine until you figure out the real needs of the engine. It holds true in most engines, especially when the rod journals are between 2.0" and 2.3", and when the main journals are between 2.3" and 2.75". This is if you are using any good race oil between 5W/20 and 15W/40. If you run 20W/50 (why?) go a little looser, if you run 0W/10, tighten it up some.

Thanks, that makes sense, I am going with 5/20 for now, our other engines lived with it just great.

A properly plumbed accumulator will not cause a problem, an improperly plumbed accumulator will blow your engine.

Its plumbed right, pretty hard to plumb it wrong on this engine :) It is/was working properly I put an inline shutoff valve so I can shut it full, manunally to pull a full accumulator should I want to, shut off kill engine, drain, precharge right, proper quantity in accumulator, set to 20 psi drainback....I dont like the solenoid valve it had but Ive seen the same exact valve failt in Gas and Steam applications. (it a personal thing:)


Avoid the rest of the trick stuff. If it won't live at all without cryo and DLC, it won't live anyway. Yes, you can do that stuff later and maybe find some gains

Not looking for gains really, the issue with these engines, sort of is there are really NO other parts that are accepted other than the OE parts on many items, Rockers are powdered metal for example and prone with a score to shatter, that happens even in street engines with a high lift and ramp, the other item are the shafts, noone is making a hardened shaft for these, I am going to have some chromed perhaps, I havent decided, I want to see what the DLC does there, even with mild short run time the damm things gall horrible, on a street engine as well, they well, just suck. And on, those are the things Im trying to lenghten the life of just a bit. Turning one of these at 7k+ makes the shafts look like crap in short order , so.....it annoys me, they are way too soft, and until I can get some new ones made, or ordered that are harder, well this is the only option I have.

You need good solid machine work, and good solid basic parts. All of the other silly stuff will do nothing but cause you problems, at least until you have 3-4 good solid engines you've done that run well and last. After that, then you go fooling with the rest of it.

Turnaround time is an issue for us, my buddy well hes knee deep in Merlin V12's and a few Jumo's P&W and other warbird crap for the Air Season...Noone else (for THIS 5.7 can turn stuff around fast enough) the next 2 I should be able to find someone solid.....I hope.......

Agreed, the shafts and rockers are something we have always fought and so do other guys even in HP street apps, its life , other than a 2000$ jessel conversion, and well cant exactly run that here. The rods suck period, and Monday Im going to be back on the phone as others suggested trying to find SOMETHING that will fly and I can get approved. Eagle is as good a bet as any. But the first 5.7 will still have the Scat rods, the only other option is to sit around and hope and wait someone will offer a rod....yeah that aint happening.

By the way, you've already met a real good guy to help you through all of this, Bill Grubbs. Talk to him, listen to him, and pay attention. He knows a lot more than he lets on, and he'll show you the ropes. He's no engine builder, and he'll tell you that. But he knows who IS an engine builder, and where to get good advice and information.

Bill was very very helpful, and well, one of my biggest regrets was having to pull out and not being able to pick his brain some more :) I hope to see him again soon at the track. He is sharp as a tack and I know what he says is true it takes about 10 seconds to spot that.....as far as how much he knows I have no doubt it is extensive, experience breeds that.

And well, were on a Crash Course Stock Elim "experience" just hoping using the word Crash dosent come back to haunt me...lol

Alll excellent advice.

Cheers

Chris