Hosepower on monday?
 

Does Jeff Teuton run count? on free time trail today - 1.26 under 10.88, per 1320go.com Tom

Re: Hosepower on monday?
 

with that combo does it really matter. If I was to build the drag pack car that would be the motor I would have run.

Re: Hosepower on monday?
 

11.220 is what NHRA will see ;)

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If he did run 10.88, it will most definitely trigger automatic hp come monday.

Re: Hosepower on monday?
 

The time time was a bonus run. Given by the track, not NHRA. Because of the schedule change and the cancelling of the CIC race.
It should not count. Guys had there stuff twisted for the CIC race. Then all of a sudden they would be back in bracket loop. The time trial was a gift. And I am thankful for it.

Re: Hosepower on monday?
 

The field was already set. The time trial run would be considered a warm up as it had no effect on first round pairings therefore NHRA cannot give him HP.

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What a joke this nhra is anymore!!!!!!!!!!

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This is a "joke" I don't get?
They used some common sense and sure enough some are b1tching about it.

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If you went to a test and tune and went i.25 or more you would not get horsepower. The time trial on Saturday morning was the same situation.

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I dont blame Jeff at all for putting this combo together. The problem is NHRA! Not factoring new combos even close. This is what is a JOKE

Everbody talks about the old combos not factored right back in the day but these combos have been work on for 30+ years and given enhancements to get to where they are today. Now all of a sudden they are (atleast) 50hp behind!!!


NHRA what a JOKE

Re: Hosepower on monday?
 

I like watching some cars running 10.30s at 100mph as well!!

Re: Hosepower on monday?
 

I thought that dropping the index .3 was the cure for everything in the S/SS world as we know it and correct factoring had nothing to do with anything.

Congratulations to Jeff T. A great racer! A super nice car! A great combination! And one class act!

Re: Hosepower on monday?
 

More than 50. That car of Teuton's has 150 hp on our 360. Ours isn't particularly fast, but you get the point...

Re: Hosepower on monday?
 

You need to realize that Chrysler never made a true HiPo 360 until the new DRAG PAK cars were released....(Li'L RED EXPRESS doesn't count)...the 360 DRAG PAK engine specs aren't even close to any 360 built before this package was created.....


D L RAMBO.....

Re: Hosepower on monday?
 

The reason i started this post was Nitro Joe said he was putting the free runs on his list and i was parked by the scales and not all cars weighted, I don`t think the free time-trails should count, But it his list. Tom

Re: Hosepower on monday?
 

I DO realize that. What I fail to understand is why the two combo's are within 3 classes of one another.

Let's compare shall we?

'79 360
9:1 CR
.455" lift
Flat tappet hydraulic lifter
Thermoquad
Cast Iron heads/manifold
1.88" intake valve 1.60" exhaust valve
Rated @ 289

5.9 Magnum
11.4:1 CR
.490" lift
Hydraulic roller lifter
1000 cfm throttle body w/injection
Aluminum heads/high rise aluminum manifold
2.02" intake valve 1.60" exhaust valve
Rated @ 275

I don't fault the car owner. The Teuton family is a great bunch of people and I congratulate them on their performance. However, that being said, that car should be in C or D not in H.

NHRA missed the boat on all the new cars. I know there's a valid argument to be made for underrating a new combination, but c'mon, these things (and CJ's) aren't even CLOSE to where they should be.

Re: Hosepower on monday?
 

Couldn't agree with you more Jared. The cam in my '78 360 is even smaller @.423 and yet it is still rated at 289hp and the new 360 is rated @ 275! Also remember the car ran 10.50 @ 127 on Thursday. I'm sure there is plenty left! This is very similar to when the LS1 first came out. Jim

Re: Hosepower on monday?
 

Absolutely Jim. I remember when the LS1's debuted at Pomona in '95. Martha Thompson qualified #1 in G/SA. Now the same cars are still competitive in AA and A. Only took 15 years. I hope NHRA pulls their heads out a little sooner with regard to these combo's.

We used to run the .423" cam as well. The "new" motor has the "big" cam. LOL

Re: Hosepower on monday?
 

Im curious as to what people educated with this motor (albeit a hair different in a DP, and the DP Chassis)

What do you "guess" or reasonably think the 5.9 Combo is good for if someone were to let the tounge hang out ? And after the FI gets dialed in as well as other items noone is really familiar with yet on this particular motor ?

9.8 ish ? 10 flat ? 10.2 (I think its already capable of that but thats just a "feeling") ????

Im curious as to what an "educated" guess is on this combo.....my LA experience is 1 engine for a friend when I was about 20.....and taking them out of cars and putting them in storage (we are building a 70-74 Challenger LA block collection apparently)

I think Long term Mr Teuton made a Great choice from an Investment perspective, I think, maybe wrong I think only 5 were ordered ?

Re: Hosepower on monday?
 

jared jordan said

Absolutely Jim. I remember when the LS1's debuted at Pomona in '95. Martha Thompson qualified #1 in G/SA. Now the same cars are still competitive in AA and A. Only took 15 years. I hope NHRA pulls their heads out a little sooner with regard to these combo's

Use to be competitive in AA and A! I cant remember what these cars HP started out with or even where they are now only remember getting my but kicked by them until they moved to injected class until they worked the factor out! But, I dont think they were this far out of line! Like you said (more like 150hp short)

Class Racing is what we all do. We all like to think that if we work hard enough we can at the very least be competitive in a class run off. We put our trust in the NHRA to keep a sumwhat level paying field. A 2 tenth advantage is never good when your on the wrong end but it's manageable. But 5 to 8 tenth or more advantage will never work. The hp system will never catch up!

Yes some people will say ( If you cant keep up then get another car or get a diff combo) but what is going on now is not like finding an abscure combo that no one has run and going 2 sec under, its inserting cars in the heart of the classes where there are hundreds of people all over the country and now there cars are ALL obsolete

ps What I said before NHRA what a joke!!!

Re: Hosepower on monday?
 

This is no different than letting the GM fast burn motor run in the new Camaro's at 275 hp. Oh by the way it's rated at 385hp for crate motor purposes in IHRA. Whats being done to stock will eventually kill the class. If you remember the reason for the creation of the fuel injected classes was the failure of NHRA to properly factor the fuel injected motors. I can remember having to run the LS1's in F/SA when they were rated at 305 hp. and my old motor was 315. They are now 369 unless you have a Corvette or GTO in which case they are 340.

For all of us who have spent years and years and thousands of dollars working on their combinations it's a slap in the face. If NHRA really cared about it's members they would handle these new cars in a fair and equitable manner. Oh I forgot, they don't have members just sheep who blindly follow along because we are addicted to what we do. I have just finished a new car for my son Andrew and spent north of $35,000 rolling on it. It is a D/SA 70 Z28 Camaro and he is very proud of it. This is probably a 9 tenths under car [ new indexes ]. He would get out run by one of the new 5.7 hemi's by at least a half a second.

Jeff Teuton is a good friend of mine and he has a great looking car, but it should not be in stock eliminator, they only made 3 with that motor. If NHRA is going to allow these cars like the Challenger and new Mustang to race in Stock they should be in their own classes For those of you who think the horse power factoring will take care of these cars, yeah right, in about 15 years. This is discouraging to say the least.

Re: Hosepower on monday?
 

Jared, in all fairness to Martha, she had an LT1 not LS1!

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Tom, i looked at all the runs made only 9 in Stock was faster then their qualifying and i have not done the eliminations yet.

Reason i thought i would count them was i was told by my buddy down there he was weighing them.

Remember since I don't have nothing to do with the NHRA HP anymore I felt what runs i count is my call and i thought about it this way, if this would of been a regular divisional event it would of counted on the Q sheet.

I've always thought i should cover runs made at a NHRA/IHRA race that has scales and gas check. In the past i have counted the time trail run that was made before Rd 1 at the Dutch Classic, maybe I'm wrong, i don't know, i guess I cant please everyone.

I was just thinking and i edit this to say this, the weighing deal is no different then them waving you by after a Q run I've seen at times done. I don't know, nice thing about it i guess it's my choice on what i want to do i guess, hope it's ok.

Re: Hosepower on monday?
 

Joe, you da' man, we appreciate what you do for us!;)

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Whoops! Shows what I know about GM stuff! LOL

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Greg,
You are absolutely correct!

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You Know, it is a shame that NHRA would not work with us like the original plan was, as Greg and My self and a few others worked very Hard for the Stock/Superstock guys only to be slapped in the face and just plain ignore us, talking about the SRAC:cool:

Re: Hosepower on monday?
 

Joe, In all fairness would you count TestNTune runs in your stats?
If these runs did not count torwards AHFS or a Q run then scales and fuel check should
have been closed or scale for your own info...my2cents

Re: Hosepower on monday?
 

Jared forgot to mention the 300 cfm intake ports, as told to me by sharp MOPAR racer considering building one for Super Stock. Makes me wonder what the powers-that-be are thinking?

Re: Hosepower on monday?
 

True Bob, I'm going to have to sit and think this one out, I'm going to wait and finish up the Belle Rose SS/Stock stats and see how much it really weighed into the deal after the very fast rounds on Sunday. I'll let everyone know on this , but Bob does bring up something about it, I do not count test and tune runs. Here is a question i might ask today to D4 official, If, a run on Saturday mornings TT would of been -1.25 would of it counted for AHFS, that might be the decider.

Guys, i just try to do the best job to get everybody a idea who has the best car, where the best runs where made and I do my best and I know i have flaws at times, but I'm trying.

Re: Hosepower on monday?
 

Joe, I hope you did not take my post in a negative way, Your stats are still our
Bible, and you do a great job.. Thanks

Re: Hosepower on monday?
 

First of all, Joe, you do not need to make apologies to anyone. Our sport needs more like you...period

Just a thought, what about a section of "known runs under unknow conditions". or "recorded runs outside AHFS conditions"

With internet and other forms of information, ET's, especially fast runs are known throughout the racing community, and a source of pride to the owners, a caveat heading incl unknown weight and fuel check: reader beware. Might be considered as well.

Whatever you decide....thanks

Re: Hosepower on monday?
 

Not at all Bob.

Randall that's something to think about. I'm always open for suggestions because if its not for YOU racers and your support there are NO stats.

I e-mailed officials on the deal, here is what i asked........
One question, if there would have been a -1.25 or faster run on the time trail Saturday morning, would it counted for horsepower?

Re: Hosepower on monday?
 

TnT was on Thursday, completely separate deal put on by the track. It should not count. Once qualifying for the event starts ALL runs count towards the AHFS according to the new standard. It makes no difference if it a "freebe" run or not. The cars had already been weighed several times and were considered "legal" at that time. Once NHRA takes over the event all runs count. Joe is correct. Even with the AHFS "hit" it would only make 103 lbs added to the Challenger. I'm willing to bet the car already was that much and more over weight. I think I remember Jeff saying that the car should be good for some 9.90s when sorted out. I would say after the seeing the initial outing with the car he isn't far off! 9.90 in H/SA would be pretty stout! Jim

Re: Hosepower on monday?
 

remember when i said watch out what ya wish for when the "fast guys" pushed the class winner rule out for qualifying cause you all called em "bump ins" ???????????

well here ya go ... wont be too long when a "real stocker" will no longer be able to qaulify for indy it will be a "paper car" class only... get out your checkbooks boys...

and by the way all your $100,000 old style stockers are now just a bunch of good guys nostalgia (shoe polish) race cars > geez i guess no-one but me saw this coming eh ?

captain jack

Re: Hosepower on monday?
 

Let me give you folks a little history. I used to race trucks in stock eliminator. When I got into my trucks I could run 1.60 under anywhere and faster on occasion. I qualified No 1 at Indy and anywhere. Over the years, I didn't change, my trucks didn't change, my motor didnt change, and the last two years in Indy, I could not qualify with my trucks. And then there is the 69 Super Bee Six Pak I just sold. C/SA. Best ever 10.60, could run 10.70's most anywhere, but the 396's and 428 or 390's or the new EFI Bowties or whatever could run 10.30's. Nobody was shouting to hit the Chevys or Fords, and nobody was shouting to lower the hp on my big orange Super Bee. We have also been running this 360 combo for 10 years in Top Stock and have gone a best of 9.52 @ 138, but in more SS configuration. We got that motor with 2 pts less compression in SS/GT and its pretty good there. The main purpose for this motor is so the small block racers in SS can have a newer engine with more modern parts than that old stuff people have worn out. I have asked for years for new heads for the BB and SB mopars, but to no avail. Everybody got more new parts than we got. We got R/T SB Mopar heads less than one month before Mother Mopar quit making them. So we got nothing. I ain't crying, and I'm real proud of what my guys did. This was a total internal company machine except for the chassis/suspension which B & B did a really great job on. I just pushed the gas, and didn't do a very good job on that. The time trial on Sat morn at No Problem whas just that. The field was set, and the hit was made in response to the changed schedule for a dial in reference. I don't think I crossed the scale on that run. I had been @ +/- 5 lbs of 3350 all weekend. Should the car be in Stock?. I think it is the future and I am amazed the cars were built because of the circumstances last year with bankruptcy and who knows what else. Next time I'm gonna call Drooze and dictate this. My fingers are worn out. My reality check this weekend was when a guy told me 'your posts on the net don't make you sound so old and fat'. Just goes to show you it just don't always go your way.

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Rofl....and Very well said Jeff, Congrats again, Doing what you did with that car is spectacular first out, that thing is a WHOLE lot faster than I would have guessed and and your just getting started.......GREAT Job and the car Looks ACE !

I handle typed correspondence at 2c/word :) (no discounts for bad spelling however)

Re: Hosepower on monday?
 

So, let me see if I have this correct. Because of all these past injustices you feel it's OK that you have a mid 10s car in H/SA. Two wrongs make a right?

I think it would've looked better if you had just said "Hey, I don't factor 'em, I just build 'em." Or something like that.

Anyway, very nice looking car. Good luck to you guys this year.


-Toby

Re: Hosepower on monday?
 

I don't see where he said that at all. I think he was just pointing out when he was on the wrong end of the numbers game himself. Now I think there is no one who is ahead of the curve on this combo more than the Teutons because of their MOPAR history as well as their years with the TSTK car. Nothing negative in either direction of opinions, just a observation. Beautiful car Mr. Jeff and I wish I would have had some time to come and talk with you instead of beating my head against my truck for three days.

P.S. Don't forget the V10 Truck experience. "Sure spend the money and build the combo, no nevermind you can't run it."

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Toby, the tides swing both ways. I remember the first time we ran 8.99 in SS/AA. We have been in the boat on both incoming and outgoing tides.