1972 Dodge j/sa
 

Hi am new to this site, i am having a midlife idiot moment and am building a 1972 dodge charger for stock class. The car has been sitting in a hanger since 1996 and has been a mild et car since 82, 67000 original miles. So far i have correct block and carb but needs built ,
need help with what is best for pistons,heads,cam and any other help
to make my life little easier would be very much helpful. Thanks Bryan

Re: 1972 Dodge j/sa
 

Straight out of the NHRA classification guide. Go to NHRA.com and this will be better presented. Look under Competition, Blueprint Specifications. Should be something here to get you started.



NHRA Technical Specifications
For
1972 Chrysler Corp. Motors

ROD
BORE STROKE DISPLACEMENT CYLINDERS LENGTH
3.390 2.530 91 4 4.966
3.030 3.390 97 4 6.051
3.406 3.640 198 6 6.700
3.406 4.126 225 6 6.700
3.910 3.313 318 8 6.123
4.040 3.313 340 8 6.123
4.000 3.580 360 8 6.123
4.340 3.380 400 8 6.358
4.320 3.750 440 8 6.770 4/29/2008


Issued: 25 Feb 1972
Revised: 4-2-76, 5-24-94, 2-16-96, 7-1-96, 2-16-98, 5-13-03


R.R.
HP Disp Mfg C.R. Ind. Make Model/Transmission Manifold Lifter Head cc Notes

55 91 P 9.40 1-1 Zeni 150 CDSET/ALL 1.50 M 13.3 A
70 91 P 9.40 2-1 Zeni 150 CDSET/ALL 1.50 M 13.3 A
80 97 P 9.03 1-2 MK DIDTA-14/AUTO 1.55 M 35.7 A
Carb sizes – 1260/1102
85 97 P 9.03 1-2 MK DIDTA-13/SM 1.55 M 35.7 A
Carb sizes – 1260/1102
100 198 DP 8.93 1-1 Holl 6363,6365/SM, 6364,6366/AUTO 2899959 1.50 M 54.0 B,1,6
Carb sizes – 1686/1313
110 225 DP 8.87 1-1 Holl 6153,6156/SM, 6154,6156/AUTO 2899959 1.50 M 54.0 B,1,6
Carb sizes – 1686/1313
150 318 DP 9.23 1-2 Cart BBD-6149,51/SM 6150,6152/AUTO 2951185,3698431 1.50 H 61.0 C
Carb sizes – 1437/1186
175 360 CDP 9.38 1-2 Holl 6162 or 6164/AUTO ONLY 3418435 1.50 H 64.7 D,5
Carb sizes – 1563/1410
190 400 DP 8.79 1-2 Cart BBD-6156/SM , 6154/AUTO 2951670 1.50 H 82.0 E,2
240 340 DP 9.32 1-4 Cart TQ-6138/SM, 6139/AUTO 3512100 1.50 H 64.7 D,3,7
Carb sizes – 1375x2250/1063xAV
245 440 CDP 8.76 1-4 Holl 6160-1A or 6290-1A/AUTO ONLY 3614014 1.50 H 82.0 E
Carb sizes – 1563x1563/1260x1313
255 400 DP 8.79 1-4 Cart TQ-6140,65/SM, 6090,6166/AUTO 3614046 1.50 H 82.0 E,8
Carb sizes – 1500x2250/1186xAV
265 400 DP 8.79 1-4 Cart TQ-6140,65/SM, 6090,6166/AUTO 3614046 1.50 H 82.0 E,4,8
Carb sizes – 1500x2250/1186xAV
280 440 DP 8.75 1-4 Holl 6252,6256/SM 6253,6257/AUTO 3614014 1.50 H 82.0 E
Carb sizes – 1563x1750/1260x1563
290 440 DP 8.75 1-4 Holl 6254/SM 6255/AUTO 3614014 1.50 H 82.0 E,4
Carb sizes – 1563x1750/1260x1563

C = Chrysler engines D = Dodge engines P = Plymouth engines
1 - Alt carbs - Holl 6260/ALL 2 - Alt carbs - Holl 6370/SM 6368/AUTO 3 - Alt carbs - Cart TQ-6394/ALL
4 - With fresh air package 5 - Alt manifold - 3698437,3698431
6 - Alt manifold - 3671619,3751630,3769979
7 - Alt manifold - 3614025,3671918,3698434,3830945,4095080,4100340,41 73915
8 - Alt manifold - 3698442,3830949

Cylinder Head Castings:
A = NONE B = 2843169, 3698447, 3614850, 3698995 C = 2843675, 3671585, 3769973, 4323302, 4448308, 4772576
D = 3418915, 4027596, 4071051, 3769974, 3671587, 4448308, 4772576
E = 3462346, 3751213, 3769902, 3769975, 4006452, 4120187, 4532287(SS ONLY)


Deck Piston
HP Disp Mfg Cl Type Height Vol Valves Cam Lift Gasket Springs

55 91 P .235 Flat 1430/1210 383/387 .020 Outer Only
70 91 P .235 Flat 1480/1210 443/443 .020 Outer & Inner
80 97 P .000 Dish .100 8.2 cc 1500/1224 395/395 .050 Outer Only
85 97 P .000 Dish .100 8.2 cc 1500/1224 395/395 .050 Outer Only
100 198 DP .075 Flat 1620/1360 410/419 .021 Outer Only
110 225 DP .140 Flat 1620/1360 410/419 .021 Outer Only
150 318 DP .056 Flat 1780/1500 390/420 .036 Outer Only
175 360 CDP .067 Flat 1880/1600 425/426 .046 Outer w Damp
190 400 DP .075 Flat 2080/1740 443/456 .020 Outer Only
240 340 DP .054 Flat w/n 1880/1600 462/473 .036 Outer w Damp
245 440 C .123 Flat 2080/1740 467/483 .019 Outer Only
245 440 DP .123 Flat 2080/1740 443/456 .019 Outer Only
255 400 DP .075 Flat 2080/1740 467/483 .020 Outer w Damp
265 400 DP .075 Flat 2080/1740 467/483 .020 Outer w Damp
280 440 DP .123 Flat 2080/1740 467/483 .019 Outer w Damp
290 440 DP .123 Flat 2080/1740 467/483 .019 Outer w Damp

Notes C = Chrysler engines D = Dodge engines P = Plymouth engines

Re: 1972 Dodge j/sa
 

"Somebody been readin de rool buk" He he : )

You are on top of it Robert.

Re: 1972 Dodge j/sa
 

Hey thanks for the rule book info,, got rule book and my stk number from nhra 5010 .. I know there has to be some better heads to use out of the many numbers offered,,also any help with best piston for my combonation, what cam company to start with, i have a good ati conv.
for the trans. any dos and donts for me would be a great help thanks
Bryan

Re: 1972 Dodge j/sa
 

Which engine are you using? 340 or 400? if you are going to use the big block you want to use the 452 head. they are plentiful and have good #'s. if it is the small block you want to find the 308 or 576 late model heads. But be careful as the ports run big right out of the junkyard. Pistons are builders preference its the rings that make all the difference. Cam is also builders preference.Steve Wann knows that big block combo REAL well he is who i would be askin.

Re: 1972 Dodge j/sa
 

Which engine are you planning on using?

Re: 1972 Dodge j/sa
 

Well I can tell you a 360 racer had 3 sets of heads that stock were all big. UNTOUCHED. The specs may be off a little. Core shift is the problem.

Re: 1972 Dodge j/sa
 

Sorry for the brain fart>>>>>400 bb is my motor i have a set of 452 heads that someone has cut too much and also looks like some sort of acid might have been used on the intake side........my other problem is i live out in south dakota and emailed gtx john and can get some parts from him but would like to find someone going to vegas to save me freight my issues i know thanks again bryan

Re: 1972 Dodge j/sa
 

Ralph Compson out North Dakota just bought 2 cars from me today maybe he is going by you. Call me in afternoon and I give you some private advise and combinations to run....you have my number I will be headed to Tucson and have a bunch of time on road... Kids car over 1.0 under new index...we found a lot this winter, need somebody else to run 400 combo!

Re: 1972 Dodge j/sa
 

Ed, I have around 25 plus - 340 untouched heads that at least one port is well over the cc's limit. I spent alot of money last year to find 4 heads that would pass.

Re: 1972 Dodge j/sa
 

What do you think about a 383 as a 71 model? I was thinking these two combinations to be similar performance wise.

Re: 1972 Dodge j/sa
 

I bought 4 sets of 360 heads from a reconditioner and two of the eight heads were over. Jim

Re: 1972 Dodge j/sa
 

Ed: I own over 100 sets of small block mopar heads. If you clean the carbon off the ports most EVERY Pair of junkyard 894,915,308,587 are several cc's over spec. Every one who runs this combo know the spec's are a disaster. Do you race one.....we race several. If anybody want to come over at Vegas and pick a set out of our pile we will cc them and I will EAT them springs, valve and all if they are not over tech specs......are you a betting man?

Re: 1972 Dodge j/sa
 

Ed all you ever do is blow hot air about that which you know nothing. I have run 340's since the early 70's and have set several records and I know John is telling the truth.

Re: 1972 Dodge j/sa
 

wow all i wanted was a little help with my car and motor combo
can't we all just grt along?????lol

Re: 1972 Dodge j/sa
 

Ok, Ill take what you say as gospel on this and many others since Ive only had one set of 340 heads and didnt know them from the 360 heads.

The question I have being an eternal thinker is Ok if they are over runner size, why not reduce runner size ? 1 way I can think of easy and effective....

How many is "several" ? I guess I could pull 1-2 out of any runner taking off .100-120 or so, granted on intake youd need thicker gaskets or 2 or 3 but it would reduce runner size and should pass a CC check ? No ?

Just thinking out loud here.......

Re: 1972 Dodge j/sa
 

Welcome to "Class Racer" they forgot the rabies shots in this neck of the motorsports world, everyone suffers from some sort of rabies, distemper, or lead induced psycosis here.....:eek:

But seriously dont let it scare you away, I didnt let it scare me away, the amount of knowledge here and the contacts are vast and well worthwile.

Well worth it, it just takes a thick skin and the ability to ignore and not take things personal.

Then again I was the dumbass who didnt let the truly rabid dog scare me away and had to go for 6 or 8 weeks to the hospital for rabies shots after it bit me......left a nice "prize" of a scar though..You know something is wrong with the dog when a pitbull runs at you bites you, lets go takes 3 or 4 steps and falls over drooling.....its kinda like that here, they bite but they let go......

Re: 1972 Dodge j/sa
 

Unfortunately some of the ports we are talking about are 4-5 cc to big..there is just not enough material in ports to remove. You can't mill them thru valve cover bolts! BTW Ed it was 1995 and the cars were Etter, Buell, Schlutz, Myers. I was there and saw there stuff. It is difficult to impossible to make these head legal, I been racing these cars 30 plus years! We just want to race our cars... not out to cheat anybody! Why not go to a junkyard and pick up some heads and check them! Do you think I ported 100 of old ***** head just to invite you over to check them. A lot of these heads have been on my shelf for 30 years...never had a valve job . Why would I lie about it my Demon... has been full teardown a half a dozen times! My kids wagon was torn down in Phoenix this year and was legal but only by a scant cc! I invited all the head guys I know to look at the heads with valves out even my many enemies.... they were clear untouched and milled the heck out of intake to be legal. My other boys car was torn down Vegas 11/09 Nationals also legal! We are not cheaters...I have race stock since early 70's ... No DQ.... Stop on by my pits and call me a cheater Ed...I am easy to find! Put your money up and let's check some heads... I am tired of seeing every one struggle to find 40 year old heads that meet a nonexistant incorrect spec and spend a ton of money to try and fix them. Everybody that runs these knows there is a problem! I don't even know who you are, but if you raced this combination for 40 years you could speak with a little more authority and a lot less BS. You are just trying to stir up trouble and you don't even have a dog in the fight!!!:mad:

Re: 1972 Dodge j/sa
 

This has been tried before Chris and deemed illegal. Not too hard to detect. Jim

Re: 1972 Dodge j/sa
 

340 Heads,
I think, or seemed to recall, for some reason, the heads off the later 68'
model year engines were a 'touch' smaller in cc volume. How and why, I can't remember. It may have been just a 'needle-in-a-haystack' set of heads. Casting #'s were the same. But of course back in 69'/70'/71' the NHRA Tech people weren't so 'picayune'.
PC

Re: 1972 Dodge j/sa
 

Ed, NHRA has got some numbers wrong. Why?, I don't know. And I don't know why they don't correct them. Some other heads/brands have the same problems. Some 305 SBC heads can be over right out of the junker they're yanked it from.

Re: 1972 Dodge j/sa
 

My kids and I love Stock and Super Stock. I try to help anybody starting out as much as I can... I would like to see the eliminators stay popular forever. I can speak with authority because I own more Original Mopar Core parts than anybody I am aware of. I have sold core parts: Blocks, Heads, Manifolds to many if not most of the mopar racers on west coast. Also to most of the most respected Mopar Engine builders in the west...you would know their names! My family ran one of the largest Wrecking yards in So Cal. in 1960-1974. Much of my collection of Heads dates back to when these cars were NEW and have Never been touched(Original Paint, still see Head Gasket Imprint). I invite anybody at Vegas Race to come look.....No Secrets Here. Time after time I sold virgin small block Heads (Big Block not a problem) and seen the darn things come up Big....and I have had many disappointed customers! I am not grinding up core heads by the dozen to make then Illegal and lose customers! I am not a Engine builder so I have nothing to gain by lying. How dare you call some one a liar...you don't know me YET! I make it a business to know the Ins and Outs of these Heads and other Mopar core parts---Have for 40 years plus! What have you done to profess to be an expert and to call everybody else just trying to help a guy with advise a LIAR? John Irving Irving Family Racing
PS: There are many reasons some of us take a break (Like Rod) sometimes financial often personal,or Health.... Doesn't make him less knowledgeable . I have known him 35 years and hold his abilities and knowledge in great esteem!

Re: 1972 Dodge j/sa
 

The point I was trying to make was that we have numerous samples of the heads that we are talking about available for inspection...probably more than anyone I know. The point I was making on how we made our living was to explain WHY I had access to so may 30 to 40 year old parts! They were muck easier to find they...particularly if you were in that business. It is not very nice to call somebody stupid that you do not know. Until just a couple of years ago NHRA did not cc the port runners as you well know why would we check them if we knew we had not modified them... further the Chamber in all the heads are 3-4 or more cc over spec allowing you to put a different valve in and adjust the amount you milled the heads. Do you think I am lying about that too. Fortunately my stupidity and lying has not keep us from qualifying in top 10 in First Two 2010 National races and holding a Current National Record with our 360 engine vehicle. But then again maybe am lying about that too ....What has a smart guy like you done lately? What do you race.....I am surprised that I don't know you..... but I have never claimed to be smart.... I just own and sell a lot of Mopar Core Parts. I am currently in Tucson at Div 7 race-- racing 3 stock mopars... are you there...I will be in Vegas Nat'l in April racing 4 stock mopars... will you be racing there? Stupid John Irving ( I could be lying about the name and be too stupid to know it) .

Re: 1972 Dodge j/sa
 

Ed what John is trying to do here is help you,if you can't understand this you shouldn't have ask for help. When someone does a solid you should at least thank him. Claude Ruel

Re: 1972 Dodge j/sa
 

Ed I do not like your attitude .....I started this post looking for a little help and knowledge from some racers, to help me make fewwer and at the least, less expensive mistakes. I was a racer back in the 70s was a nhra track announcer and a div 5 tech guy14 years ago and if a guy came to the tech line with a huge attitude like your i know i would have found many things wrong/////// john has been helpful in trying to steer me the right way with parts and help WHAT HAVE YOU DONE. John you have my 800 number thanks again Bryan

Re: 1972 Dodge j/sa
 

This is one exciting thread.
Much like the 'Bickersons' early radio days!!
Just for fun, I'm going to cc the runners on my #894 heads from
late 68'.
Those 'bastards' better not go over 153cc.
Or I'll pour 'liquid-metal' in there!!
PC

Re: 1972 Dodge j/sa
 

Dear ED
First of all i said if you had the attitude to begin with and from the way you express yourself it seems you do. Second i said what i said about tech line in fun but it seems that you are to wound up to relize that.. in the years that i worked for nhra i was very fair and hand no problems..
But now i have learned from an expert like you to not get into racing,and calling me a blankhead and to spread my cheeks wow what an insight into your twisted mind........... bdixon

Re: 1972 Dodge j/sa
 

Mix the "Bickersons" with the "Beverly Hillbillies" and throw in a bit from the old "Saturday Night Live" show and then, a little "Seinfeld." Then, we're right there, Paul....Best wishes to all..... go hard----or go home.:D WJ

Re: 1972 Dodge j/sa
 

Heading to Walmart so I may be able to solve this when I get back. Walmart you ask? Yep thats right Walmart. The greeter at our local is Mr. Earl Hipps. He is 81 years old and an expert on Mopar. He retired from there in 1982 after 37 years of service. Knows more about Mopar than anybody I have ever met.

Re: 1972 Dodge j/sa
 

thats funny Floyd. I knew a man that worked at the Delevan avenue GM rear end assembly plant in Buffalo, NY.... After 25 yrs, all he knew was how to install the 4 saddle clamp bolts that held the carrier in..... beyond that he had no idea where that part was located on a car.................

Re: 1972 Dodge j/sa
 

Ed How rude to Mr. Dixon who asked for help with his J/SA class car, he said that he was NEW CLASS racer .

Ed This rand is for you. I have 50 years of racing back ground from a spectator ( all my life) a racer (40 years) speed shop owner(35 years) Race Track ownr & manager (15 years) First thing that I have seen when you are a *** to new racer's they move on and the car count go's down hill the class die's , then the race track. There's more to Racing then winning. If it was not for all the great people that I have made friends with over the years, I would not have stayed in the sport. You sound like you are a loser on the race track so you take it out on every one. Go look in the mirror and have a talk to that person and when you get your head on come back or move on, DRAG RACING must not be a FUN place for you. WHAT HAVE YOU DONE TO HELP DRAG RACING?:):)

Re: 1972 Dodge j/sa
 

Well I am back. I have to say at 81 Mr Earl is still a pretty sharp guy. I don't know if what he told me is true but I don't see a reason for him to lie either. He was part of R&D engine department as an enigineer and machinist. I asked him about the heads and CC rates. Although he couldn't remember exact casting numbers he did tell me an interesting story. Here it is. "Son. Back in the late sixties those California pretty boy tree huggers started demanding we add a blow buy evac tube that went back to the combustion chamber. They claimed that it would make the air better. If you ask me I think they were a bunch of idiots. Anyhow, after we put that fart tube (I swear that is what he called it) the dang things made the motors run terrible. We let them idiot tree huggers know that but they didn't care. Told us if we were gonna ship cars over there they had to have them fart tubes. So we went back to the old drawin board and made some changes to the west coast stuff. We had the steel mill change the mix a bit and made some slight changes to the castings for the west coast crap. We finally got em to run right and still hold up against the east coast cars that didn't have to have all that nonsense. I thought it was the stupidest thing I had ever heard of. Still do." Then he went on about other California laws that pissed him off and I just stood there and smiled. What a great guy. So it seems everyone is right. The west coast had mods due to california law and the east coast didn't. Would show why the CC rates are different. Now take this as you want. I am only telling exactly what he told me.

Re: 1972 Dodge j/sa
 

OK Floyd....that guy is a true treasure.....I hope to grow up to be just like him

Re: 1972 Dodge j/sa
 

Me too Neil. He is definately a character. He told me he has been married to his wife for 59 years. I told him wow thats a pretty big achievement. He said more like a life sentence married to an ugly woman.

Re: 1972 Dodge j/sa
 

Byran: I will be back from Tucson on Monday......Looking forward to chatting with you on you stocker then if you still would like me to!

Dale Johnson: I will reply to allegations on a new thread in the lounge... not on somebody else thread this evening. I invite everyone to listen in.

John Irving

Re: 1972 Dodge j/sa
 

NEWS FLASH!!!!!!! I have j

Just checked Approved Spec. Site pg 58

1968 to 1971 340X 894 Cylinder Heads have been changed from 160cc to 167cc on intake runners. Thank you to whoever was instrumental in this well needed and appropriate long overdue change!!!!!!!!!! Wish I could tell you I had anything to do with it but I did not...Just said what I thought the truth was!

Please check Approved Site for yourselves.......Everybody know I'm Stupid and ..... a big Liar!

John Irving Irving Family Racing your friendly Welfare Hillbilly Racers

Re: 1972 Dodge j/sa
 

This thread is Great!
Kind of like Hooterville from 'Green Acres'. That great fictitous
racing town in the 'mid-west'.
Just cc'd my late 68' #2531894 heads. Intake runners, not one over
157...Maybe its because the size of the water-molecules here on the
east coast (Wilton, CT). Larger molecules = less cc volume..
Just what does that mean...I have no idea..
I liked the NHRA much better in 1969, when the only thing they would do
is make you take off the intake, so they could check for porting and polishing..only..
Oh,, they also liked to peak behind the rear bumper,,to check for
'lead-tape'..
Bill Clinton said it best, 'its only cheating if you believe its cheating'
Have a nice day!!
PC (Eastern cc'er)

Re: 1972 Dodge j/sa
 

Paul, I hope your not using water to cc those heads!

Re: 1972 Dodge j/sa
 

Jeremy.
If you saw the way some of the water comes out the well-systems up here in contaminated-country Connecticut (add your MTBE's), you would understand that solvents are not needed for cc-ing heads.
Paul,, CC-ing'