Guaranteed Purses
 

This day in time it's hard for tracks to justify taking a chance on guaranteed purses. This past weekend we ran a combo race at Roxboro that had been on the calendar since January, which gave all the racers ample time to plan ahead to try and make it. Over the winter Allen (the track manager) asked what would it take on his end to get the racers to support his s/ss monthly events...everyone said "guaranteed purse". So he stepped up and advertised a minimum of $1000 to win and $200 r/u and over 21 cars we revert back to the 100% payback system. Well, I have to give a big thanks to Allen as well as the track owners Jerry and Henry as they paid out the guaranteed purse plus $75 to the semi finalist and there were only 12 cars there. If you're not familiar w/ this race try to make it if you can the second Saturday in every month through November.

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I congratulate the track manager and it just proves that a lot dont race for the money. Dont take this the wrong way BUT.......Its about "Grade points" at NHRA points races and egos. Go fast at a points race with fuel check, weight, and the go fast guys dont have to just bracket race and they get to thump thier chests more. A lot dont like to mix the stockers and S/S cars together as they (stockers) think the S/S cars have the advantage with the trans brakes, air shifters, larger tires and S/S style chassis not to mention higher speeds and 8 and 9 second ET's. At least this is what I hear from the stocker racers that I know real well. Its sad but there is a place for both types of races. The legal class cars are becoming a dinasour.
P.S. Last weekend was MOTHERS DAY and its hard to butt heads against that.

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At the Southern Stock/Super Stock Association races the stockers have done much better than the super stock cars. I think we have had only 1 or 2 super stock winners out of all of the races. There are more stockers than super stockers at most of the races. I dont see much advantage with my super stock car over a stocker. They consistently kick my butt.

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Like what Mike said at the Buckeye races we have had more stockers win then Super Stockers and I'm saying like i have said before, i don't care who is promoting a SS/Stock combo race, please help support them as this might be the way of the future for these class type cars to run together and be able to run often.

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In our series (Tri-State S/SS Association), Stockers have dominated. Stockers have won all four season Championships that we've kept track of points for (Tom Losket C/SA 1997, Jeff Ross I/PSA 1999, Steve Klacik O/SA 2000, Luke Morris N/SA 2008). At Hagerstown MD, I've been doing races there since 1995. In 17 spring and fall races at Hagerstown since 1995, Stockers have taken 22 of the 34 final round spots and 11 of the 17 wins (1997 was totally washed out). Stockers won all three races last year (four, counting the M-D Gamblers) and six of eight finals. I could go back and look up all the events in Tri-State history, and I bet Stockers have about 60% of the wins and probably even a bigger percentage of finals. So, Stockers can more than hold their own in Combo races.

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We had 2 superstockers and 16 stockers at KDS this past weekend. Terry you have a point ,but look at the stockers that run superstock now at the sanctioned events. The 1st Z-Max race was superstock only and i kow there were close to 1/2 stockers running in it.Final 3 was 1 superstocker and 2 stockers.

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OK....then WHY wont the racers support the stock S/S combo circuit events? Less pain in the butt, less time away from home and work, good pay outs, no waiting on sponsor pay outs, NO grade points needed, shorter travel, it all seems like a win win situation to me. Is it because of the no heads up runs or wt. and fuel checks? Anyone??? Lets fix/figure out the problem before the ONLY place you have to play is at a National event or a points/open race.

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If i could answer that , i would be the richest track operator in the world. Top 10 list 1- No Heads-up, 2- No scales , 3- No tech inspection , 4 - No NHRA uniforms, 5 - No fuel check , 6 - No NHRA uniforms , 7 - (refer to # 4 & # 6) , 8 - Prestige , 9 - no $ 280.00 entry fee , 10 - Can't stay 3-4 days to race 1 race , 11 - ???????anyone? I could name more ,but let's here some of yours.

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Number 4 and 6 and 7 would win me over.....lol. All kidding aside I wish I knew also. Even the East Coast stock & S/S circuit in NJ only gets somewhere around 20 to 25 cars and there are more class legal cars per square inch around Atco NJ than any where in the USA. Maybe its just the economy? People who are not rich have only so much $$$$ to play with and maybe they would rather run the points, opens, and large events although from the looks and size of most of the tow rigs I kind of doubt money is the real problem. Im thinking its #'s 1, 2, 3, and 5.

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Ido not know the answer, We at the ssssa usually can count on seeing the same faces of a select few each and every race.Many come and race every chance they get and then some just dont show up even when its in their own backyard. All of these associations were created to give all class racers a place to race that is fun and wont break the bank. In my opinion, if there is no participation now in the assoc. , there eventually will not be an assoc. for many. Then when it becomes almost impossible to find a place to race your s/ss cars, the class will die off or be sold off and when everyone then wants an association, nobody will want to take the chance for fear of support. think about it guys and gals. you need to support the associations who are trying to help you. ok, fire away

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A question at a Stock and Super Stock race if the Starting line is not prepped right who is going to spin more ???;):) Cars with more power or less power Just curious as I am just a rookie

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At our races, the tracks must be prepped fine. There are advantages for both Stock and Super Stock at events such as these.

Stockers: Get the clean tree most of the time, lower HP = less chance to spin, can probably hot-lap a bit better.

S/S: Get to chase most of the time, have a bigger tire to help hook, most have both transbrakes and auto shifters.

You can argue points for/against both.

Re: Guaranteed Purses
 

One of the points Tracy is making, which i wholeheartedly agree with, is it is absolutely stupid that one track schedules on top of another in close proxemity on the same date!!! ESPECIALLY, after the 1st track(ROXBORO), has had these races scheduled way in advance....... I would've raced at both, but ROXBORO had this date 1st and garanteed their purse to boot!!! By the way congrats Tracy on the WIN!

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To get back to the original point, I think it's admirable the track still paid out the advertised guaranteed purse. Our races, purse is dependant on car count, and the only guarantee is 23 cars pays a thousand to win and 500 r/u.

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I wouldn't exactly say that i am stupid. These tracks are over 3 hours apart and i don't think we had not one car that runs the Roxboro combo races. Besides that i have fixed it by running on Sundays. Now we all have a choice to run both or one or none. Good Luck to all and hope to see some of you in the future.

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I see what your saying Tracy and Danny, we had to change one of our dates this year cause of the scheduling of the AHRA National event at Marion, cause they was paying almost triple what we was paying out and I'm seeing now they might not even run SS & Stock there. Oh well we couldn't take the chance.

BTW ,nice win Tracy

Re: Guaranteed Purses
 

Jim,
I saw nothing in Tracy post about another race. Roxboro or KDS have never drawn a lot of cars for a combo. In fact nobody in the Carolinas have. I've never seen over 50. It's a shame the racers won't support it with fine promoters like we have here. At least the tracks are trying. If the combos go away you can only blame the racers.
That being said I have some thoughts why nobody shows:

1) No national publicity
2) No iron man
Like I always said " We race for jackets hats and trophys. The money is spent before we get it.
3) No contingency to fuss about not getting.
4) No Qualifying sheets
5) People like the multi day events. It's like they go to a party and hope a race breaks out.
6) No prestige
7) No NHRA/IHRA appeal.
8) I think another thing is still the economy. It cost a lot of money to go racing. In the southeast many of us have already ran 5-10 races this year. If you hav'nt won anything it's starting to be costly. Look at the entry list at the NHRA races now vs. 5 years ago.
I had a racer tell me he could'nt afford to go to a one day divisional race a wear his car out for the $1500 to $2000 he would get for a win. What makes you think they will come out for $1,000.

Fayetteville is having a combo this saturday. $3,000 to win with 75 cars. How many do you think will be there?

Chip Johnson

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I'll be there. Ifigure maybe 30-40 s/ss. Hope i'm wrong and on the low side. See ya there Chip.

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THere is a bracket race on Friday night too.
I will be there both days.
Chip

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Thanks for the congrats Jim and Joe. My point is the track operator is bending over backwards and genuinely loves stock and ss and is trying to help us grow...but, there are not enough s/ss racers w/in the 140 miles (2 hours 40 min. per mapquest) that seperate the two to make both locations successful if scheduled together. By the way, those roads on Mapquest go both ways, I've surely made my fair share of trips to Kinston. These cars are not top e.t. or footbrake cars that you regularly have 100 show up at all tracks on any given Saturday night.
That being said, hopefully that issue has been remedied by the new Sunday races at Kinston.
Now, do we need a larger guaranteed purse? Two day races? We had iron tree trophies last year, do we need those back? Any ideas?

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Well said Tracy. I agree .Maybe this will help car count in both areas. Congrats againon your win.

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Tracy,
I like those iron tree trophys.
With all these combos popping up making me wish I had a stocker again. Can I run a Production class with my Hot Rod car. No interior-Fiberglass-Delay Box. I'm sure ya'll would'nt mind.
Chip

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Thanks Danny...Chip just because you have a hood scoop on your car doesn't make it legal for production super stock!

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I for one would rather race these combos than the regular races. Less entry fee, and usually more payout. Less time, more fun, more variety of cars, etc.

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The Guaranteed money is not always worth the effort. Everyone wonders where are all of the Class Racers? Why do they not come out to the events? What starts out as a very simple informational thread ends up being 3 or more page long of what is wrong with this or that car or that individual. The class racers are all out racing somewhere else and having fun doing it. (Pinks All Out, Pass Time, and the list goes on). I am too old and been doing this too long to spend my money and time to drive 2 or 3 hours just to end in an argument and mess up my whole day racing. We have a 99% NHRA/IHRA legal Super Stock car, just got me a locking transmission cap before going to Z-Max last night. Have not been able to run one single combo race. The problem is with the class we are required to run because we have a fiberglass hood, which I happen to like and have for many years. Without that hood we would be easily able to run in another class, and be competitive, but I like the hood. (Have not yet figured out the exact amount of horsepower that hood should produce.)

We can race, and generally do, at least every other week-end and sometime twice a week-end at all of the tracks. We go, 3 generations, as a family and go to have fun. If we win then that is good too. We were invited to a race last night at Z-Max Dragway, "NASCAR Industry Night." All of the proceeds went to the NASCAR Children's Charity." They brought in Drag Racers, NHRA/IHRA and some Bracket Racers to race against NASCAR drivers, Owners, Rick Hendricks was there with his camaro, and Mechanics with their drag race cars, street cars and street rods. Everybody raced, test-n-tune, grudge race and head-up pro-tree, all depending on which of 7 lanes you chose to race in that run. No prize money, no trophy, no hats or what ever just racing for fun. Cars ran continuously from 5:00 pm to 10:00 pm. The track had dinner for the competitors, we all pitted together and had fun racing and sharing stories. Got home around 1:30 am. Now we are packing to go tomorrow to race at the Super Stock Reunions on Friday and Saturday. Might race Friday at Super Stock Reunion at Piedmont and then leave and go to Virginia for the "Best of Times Reunion." Don't have to argue over the class of the car and if it has the wrong chrome trim. We race and have fun. We support all of the tracks and track Owners. By-the-way Roy Hill was at Z-Max with his Mustang, not a Ford Fan, but that is one nice clean car and OH yes it runs good for it's class.

It would help if the Track Owners, Managers and Race Promoters would advertise the races. Lots of people do not know when the tracks run races, everyone does not go on the internet to hunt for a place to race. Example being, we do not live in the Charlotte area where the race last night was advertised on tv and radio and we would not have know about it except we were contacted to come and race. Make the costs reasonable avoid so many conflicts, don't worry about whether the car beside you in the staging lanes has the correct bolts in it. Just have fun and race.

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I wasn't calling you stupid, just the scheduling. You would've had at least 1 more car(me) on a diff. date. Granted most of the Kinston regs don 't come to Roxboro, but alot of the Roxboro regs. have and will go to Kinston. The tracks aren't 3 hours apart if a competiter lives between them both. Anyway, you've fixed that and i applaud and appreciate your efforts with this and at IHRA.

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Chip, i'm not sure about your post. Roxboro has had these races on their website most of the year and have been having these stock superstock combos for the past 5 years... so i assumed you knew they had them always on the 2nd sat...... I don't know about everyone else, but just the cost to field a stock or ss car anymore has hurt the participation numbers. We (in the 70's,80's and early 90's) had 80-60-30 cars on any ss weekend in that decade order. I've heard many times from the 90's forward from spectators "man, i would love to run class-just can't swing it anymore with a family" Me... the rest of you list you can keep, i love the competion of the sport.... outdriving and outtuning! I will be again thrashing another allnighter trying to debug my 57 on fri nite(fuel gremlins) to make Fayetteville sat. hope to be there and fast!

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Jim,
I think we agree on one thing COST has hurt.

I remember in the 70's we ran you had 3 classes Stock, Super Stock/Modified, & Bracket. Usually Stock had the largest car count and the purse was usually $100 win $50 r/u. My daddy was running stock then and we raced 4 nights a week.

Bring your car to FMSP Friday night too. I will see ya on Saturday.
Chip

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Jim ,I will go to Roxboro and race when i can and when time and money allows ,but cannot afford to get involved in the points due to the COST as you just posted. I hope to see you and others at some of the Kinston races . I think the Sunday deal will probably best suit us and still gives an opportunity to have more places to race.I hope we all enjoy this chance to do what we love ,regardless what track we do it at. I THANK Fayetteville, Roxboro and Kinston for their love and interest for class racing and i will do what i can to support it. See ya'll in Fayetteville. Also THANKS to the classracers that support these type races ,without you we could not have them. Like Chris3racing says ,we supposed to have fun .Hope we all happy now,I am .,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,

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me??? i could have easily done either or, that's two cars right there plus Jim would make 3, AND if I'm not mistaken there were several others that asked the question why were they on the same day? Doesn't matter now, it's been fixed and we can run them both with nominal travel. Hell, I don't care about the money, didn't get into it for that, I just want 1 round!

IF we could find a big enough trailer and some extra drivers we could just go raid Jim's barn and have More cars! :D

C y'all at Coastal Plains, I'm going to the beach to ride the Harley this weekend.

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Must be nice to be independently wealthy like those Kintons...I always knew money was no object for you guys! You're right about "Jim's barn"...there's no lack of top shelf equipment there.

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I got a trailer-license-and a gold card!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Now your talkin' !

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So what kind of class racing would this be? Certainly not one I would be interested in using up my stuff on. Sounds just like the bracket races that happen hundreds of times every weekend.

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I guess you will have to stick with the high dollar bracket race . Do you put a dial-in on your car when you race? Just asking.

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You cant win Danny with the guys/gals who spend spend spend $$$$$ and have LARGE egos just to say they can run one + under to qualify and have a shot at running someone who just makes the field. I love the stock S/S stuff but its just bracket racing with some rules no matter what angle you look at it. Yes the heads up programs that Evan mentions on this forum are more of a specrator draw and maybe more fun for those who can afford it but it gets real expensive in a hurry. Theres room for every taste and budget to each thier own. At least the rules make sure the class cars dont end up looking like bracket cars.