Michigan RV's + Trailer Length Warning
 

Just to let you know that we have a very diligent officer of the Michigan State Police working the Port Huron area, clearing the interstate roads of all troublesome RVer's, towing car trailers with a total length greater than 65 feet. Thursday afternoon my son Dave and I had just cleared the Sarnia/Port Huron border crossing, heading for the Indy points race when we were pulled over by the State Police. The first question from the officer was how long was our rig. Then he proceeded to verify that number by measuring it himself. After he checked my drivers license and motorhome registration, he said our rig was over length and would not be permitted to use Michigan roads. At that point I asked if there was an over length permit available to RVer's towing trailers (some states do), he said not. To the officers credit he did not give me a ticket, just a warning. He then told us we had to return to Canada..If we returned to Michigan, our rig would be impounded or at the least we would be fined and I would have to have the trailer towed by another vehicle that is shorter that ours. I realized when I built our rig, there was a chance I may have to unhook, since our rig may be one of the longer ones out there. When we were done with the officer, he gave us an escort back to the bridge and we headed for home, to ponder what to do ( or not ). The question I have is "has there been any work done, as in lobbying elected officials by NHRA , IHRA or dragstrip owners to change the legal length allowed. (longer than 65 feet)? Or at least have an over length permit system like Florida has."
thanks Bill Klomps
Stk 339

Re: Michigan RV's + Trailer Length Warning
 

Bill, in Nebraska RV, semi. toter home over 65 ft. total length. You have to have CDL license to drive. Call the Michigan state DOT office to make sure what the correct laws are for their state.Tom

Re: Michigan RV's + Trailer Length Warning
 

I know that North Carolina has an exemption on length for all rigs either going to or from a racing or test event.....

Re: Michigan RV's + Trailer Length Warning
 

Mack,
Does that exempt from the CDL requirement or just the rig length limit?

Re: Michigan RV's + Trailer Length Warning
 

Ben and Dave Wenzel were stopped on the way down to Indy this past weekend and were told anything over 65 feet was not legal on the interstate and anything over 59 feet on secondary roads was not legal. They were 61 feet long and were stopped on the interstate. They have a motorhome and 26 ft enclosed trailer. i have a good way around this problem. Stay out of Michigan. I guess with 15% unemployment they don't need any tourist or racer money from out of state.

Re: Michigan RV's + Trailer Length Warning
 

Greg---they are getting it not just in the "usual manner"!!!! Comp 387

Re: Michigan RV's + Trailer Length Warning
 

My understanding if its licened and taged as a motorhome no CDL is required.. Just to be safe might better check with Raleigh...

Re: Michigan RV's + Trailer Length Warning
 

Easy with the staying out of Michigan Greg, If everyone does that there will be no one for us to race agiainst at the Mid Michigan points meet in July!

Below is a link to what I was able to find on the Maximum vehicle lengths in Michigan. At the bottom it has a special permit section but it says it is for occasional movement of oversized or weight vehicles.

Sounds like about 75% of the rigs that are at the track are overlength in Michigan.

I have heard by us they have been cracking down on lawn care and similar other businesses using vehicles with trailers over 10,000lbs combined for not having DOT numbers. Another crack down lately is for trailers not having the proper braking, emergency braking, lighting, trailer tires, overloading for the axle rating. Pretty much sounds like our wonderful state trying to stir some more $$$$

http://www.michigan.gov/documents/Loads_dim_87014_7.pdf

Re: Michigan RV's + Trailer Length Warning
 

http://www.towingworld.com/PDFS/TowingLaws.pdf
This link is provided by Trailer World. I has length and other issues we could face listed.
I know that posting that link breaks the rules, but it has some very good information (besides length) that everyone towing should know.
I hope the link stays up and helps my fellow racers.

Re: Michigan RV's + Trailer Length Warning
 

The best solution or if it is possible is to stay out of the state that is being wrong in the laws , i know any state that is boycotting Arizona for our laws , I won't go to >>>>case close

Re: Michigan RV's + Trailer Length Warning
 

I found this in the Michigan link and wonder if that would apply to a Trailer Toad ? It does sound like it .....

Length shall not include safety and energy conservation devices including, but not limited to, impact absorbing bumpers, rear view mirrors,turn signal lamps, marker lamps, steps and hand holds for entry and egress, flexible fender extensions, mud flaps or splash and suppressant devices, load induced tire bulge, refrigeration or heating units, or air compressors. A device shall be excluded from a determination of length only if it is not designed or used for the carrying of cargo.

Re: Michigan RV's + Trailer Length Warning
 

We were pulled over on the way to columbus last year by Barry Archer. He is well known in the area. The truth is, there is no length limit on the books for motorhomes pulling trailers. They define everything in the laws. "truck tractor, semi trailer, etc" No combo for motorhome and trailer. I contacter Mike Nofs, our state senetor, and we had a meeting with the MDOT in march. The last I heard was they were making a new law that says motorhomes and trailers can be 75 ft long. They called here a month ago, and said it was going to happen, that they had approval from everyone before they took it to the floor for the vote. I dont know when that happens, but I will try to find out. The MDOT's response to the fact that there is no length limit for MH and trailer was, "if its not specified in the law, its an illegal combination" thats what it said, they showed me. So I said if you have anything hooked on the back of a motorhome you are illegal? They said (sheepishly) yes.
I will contact Nofs today, and see if I can find out anything.

cw

Re: Michigan RV's + Trailer Length Warning
 

CW,

shoot big -- many of us Michigander's need a little bit more than 75 feet... 85 would be nice, even if were to require a permit (e.g., Florida) of some sort for the dozen or so times most of us are on the road each summer...

Re: Michigan RV's + Trailer Length Warning
 

We asked about permits, the dot didnt seem to enthused about that. Not sure why, I would think it would generate more $$ to sell 5000 permits, than to write 100 tickets. They asked me about the length, I didnt feel like it was going to fly to ask for 100', so I figured that 10' over a semi was going to be more feasable, so I suggested75. And if it is 75, than your 80' trailer isnt going to be such a moving target.

Re: Michigan RV's + Trailer Length Warning
 

CW,

agreed... although I think the 53' trailers behind a big tractor produce a 77' overall length (not dead positive), so that's where I came up with 85' (plus our rig is 82'...!)

srm

Re: Michigan RV's + Trailer Length Warning
 

Dave Wenzel had a book the police officer gave him that specified the over length rules. I looked it over pretty good and nowhere did I see any mention of motor homes. The only thing it talked about was commercial trucks. It looks to me like these officers are interpreting the law to suit their own purposes.

Re: Michigan RV's + Trailer Length Warning
 

http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/rules-regul...ngs/122298.txt

in this law it says that "no state shall impose length limit on truck tractor, trailer combo"

thats why the semis are ok, and the semis have a trailer length limit of 53, so as long as the trailer is under 53 in Mi. than you can be any length. The Fed exemption doesnt apply to motor homes.

Re: Michigan RV's + Trailer Length Warning
 

You need to ook in DOT Regs there is a part bout Bussiness operating with in a 100 or 125 mile radius of the buss that exemptts a lot of the reeg IE lawn care would be a good example.

Re: Michigan RV's + Trailer Length Warning
 

CW
That applies to auto transporters. I thought great... but deep in there it says:
Vehicles transporting wrecked automobiles or vehicles used solely
to compete in motorsport competition events may not be considered
automobile transporters. Wrecked automobiles are those that are either
not operable, or if operable to some extent, could not operate safely
on the highways. Vehicles used solely to compete in motorsport
competition events are those that could not legally operate on the
highways.
Im no lawyer, but I think that doesn't do us race car haulers any good.
Woops... I went back and re read all that mumbo jumbo and it looks like they deleted that part,,, So it does do us some good!

Re: Michigan RV's + Trailer Length Warning
 

No wonder there is no room in the pits and the NHRA has to limit the number of cars at any given event. How about using smaller rigs !

Re: Michigan RV's + Trailer Length Warning
 

I just had a conversation with the Michigan DOT and they referenced

http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(t0j...leg.aspx?page=
type this in the MCL section 257.719

Like Charlie said ...there is no reference to motorhome and trailer length....just that the motorhome can be 45 ft and the trailer no longer than 50 ft...He said if we are registered as a motorhome we are CDL exempt...and we if we are not a business we can be overlength and not break the law.....I printed it to have it ready.....doesn't mean we won't get hassled though....

Rock

Re: Michigan RV's + Trailer Length Warning
 

Guy's get use to this, first it was Fl, then NC then Mi it is just starting all state need $$$ and this is one way to get it. I'm not say this is right but it will only get worse before it gets better!! One thing to remember is the FED's trump the states rules on the interstates. Do you self a favor and ket a copy of the Fed Regs (JJ Keller sell a pocket size book)

Re: Michigan RV's + Trailer Length Warning
 

CW, I know it seem's like we are pushing the envelope asking for longer exemption than it 75 ', but if it get's put into law some of us will still be fighting with the law enforcement people. I am with Scott in asking for an 85 foot length max, that will cover the vast majority of the equipment out there. As far as a permiting system goes I can not see why it would be that difficult to set it up if everything was done on line. To me it look's like a real cash cow for the State provided they do not not get to carried away with the fees they would charge. Thank's CW, Rock & previous poster's for your work on the issue. Bill.

Re: Michigan RV's + Trailer Length Warning
 

Just to clarify:

Its ok to tow in michigan IF your motorhome is shorter then 45 feet AND your trailer is not longer then 50 feet?

OR

Is it the combined length is under 65 feet regardless of whether you are a registered motorhome or a commercially plated transport?

There was a chance we were going to head to the IHRA divisional in Martin this weekend then do the Nitro jam event in August and the bracket finals in September but it sounds like that may not happen... right now we are 72 feet long and a registered motorhome.

Thanks,

Andrew

Re: Michigan RV's + Trailer Length Warning
 

I live in michigan.....and we are 80 ft long.....

the way it was explained to me.....is the law does not include "motorhome and trailer" in any of the length laws....as long as you are registered as a motorhome you should be ok.....

Rock Haas

Re: Michigan RV's + Trailer Length Warning
 

Ok thanks Rock for the clarification. We are a licensed motorhome in the province of Ontario (24 foot renegade towing a 34 foot stacker).

So then was Mr. Klomps wrongfully sent back to Canada in all this as he was towing with a motorhome?



Andrew Stirk

Re: Michigan RV's + Trailer Length Warning
 

not sure how Bill is registered.....I didn't get to talk with him because they turned him around....

Re: Michigan RV's + Trailer Length Warning
 

Michigan speed for trucks is 60......stay under 65....

Re: Michigan RV's + Trailer Length Warning
 

That's the way to keep them from looking at you.
Watch your speed, use your turn signals and DON'T tailgate!

Re: Michigan RV's + Trailer Length Warning
 

Rock, Our unit is registered as an RV and I do have my CDL. I was maybe tipped off last summer by a border crossing agent who asked out of curiosity if I had ever been stopped before because I was overlength. I told only once and it was not in Michigan. His comment to me then was he had buddies in Michigan State Police that would love to pull me over.
Andrew S., If your going to Martin this weekend I would cross the border at Windsor. Bill.

Re: Michigan RV's + Trailer Length Warning
 

Looks like you would want to avoid North Carolina like the plague as their trailer length rule is 35'.

Jim Davis

Re: Michigan RV's + Trailer Length Warning
 

The problem in NC was fixed last year, you are safe if traveling to a motorsports event.

Re: Michigan RV's + Trailer Length Warning
 

The sad thing is I'm 68' total and have to go through Michigan for Every Div 3 race. I've never had any trouble "YET" I'm wondering if the fact that there is no mention of a Motorhome towing a trailer in the law, would sway an officer once he already has you pulled over.. My experience is they get pissed off when you are an informed driver and doubt their AUTHORITY.. LOL I'll keep a copy of the michigan vehicle code in the motorhome and pray I don't get pulled over.

Re: Michigan RV's + Trailer Length Warning
 

Curiosity got the better of me so I looked up our local regs, the following is published for BC

Recreational Vehicle Towing


Brake Requirements
All trailers and towing dollies (car dollies) must have brakes on all wheels when their GVW (trailer/dolly and load) exceeds 1,400 kg (3,086 pounds). Every trailer with brakes must have a breakaway device hooked to the trailer brake system.
Surge brakes must be used when towing a vehicle that has a gross vehicle weight (GVW) of up to and including 2,800 kg (6,173 pounds).
From 2,800 kilograms and up the towed vehicle brakes must be able to be applied by the driver of the tow vehicle.
Motorhomes (only) may tow motor vehicles via a tow bar without brakes hooked up on the towed motor vehicle, when the towed motor vehicle's laden weight (weight of towed vehicle and its load) is:
less than 2,000 kg (4,409 pounds), and
less than 40% of the gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) of the motorhome towing it.
Motor vehicles with a laden weight of 2,000 kg and over towed by a motorhome must have brakes and breakaway device hooked up.

Preparing to tow
The vehicle on tow must have valid licensing and insurance.
Only one (1) trailer may be towed at a time (a car dolly carrying a car is regarded as one trailer).
All vehicles being towed via a ball hitch must have safety chain(s) or cable(s).
A recreational vehicle towed via a 5th wheel hook-up does not require safety chains or cables
All vehicles being towed must have lights connected to the tow vehicle.

Maximum widths for Recreational Vehicles
Maximum total overall width for recreational vehicles is 2.6 metres (8 feet 6 inches)
Mirrors (only) may exceed the width of the vehicle by 20 cm (8 inches) on each side.

Maximum lengths for Recreational Vehicles
Maximum total length for a motorhome is 14.0 metres (45.93 feet).
Maximum length for a towed recreational vehicle is 12.5 metres (41 feet).
Maximum overall length for a combination is 20.0 metres (65.6 feet)
For more information on the above, and other matters related to recreational vehicles, visit the BC Ministry of Transportation & Infrastructure website (Commercial Vehicle Safety and Enforcement) at www.th.gov.bc.ca/cvse, or contact your nearest weighscale/inspection station, or call ICBC at 1-800-950-1498.

For commercial vehicles it's much the same, 20 meters for semis, 23 meters (75') for A, B, and C trains.

If there are air brakes involved or your trailer is over 4600 kgs (10000 lbs), you need a class 1 CDL.

Re: Michigan RV's + Trailer Length Warning
 

Boys,

Well for those of us that thought the MI DoT were just picking on Canadian farmers, we were wrong... guess they also like Canadians that live in Michigan (i.e., me), too

We became the latest "overlength victims" on Friday, just south of Ithaca on M-127, on our way to the div'l at Stanton. Having read Bill's posts, and advice from Rock and others, I gave it all a try, but to no avail... We drove away (thankfully) with a citation for 17 feet over-length... 82'3" against a 65' "law"... My apologies to those of you that heard me crying about this at Mid-Michigan, but here again are the facts... advice, counsel and names of traffic attorneys in Gratiot County appreciated:

- we have a 45' Renegade (he measured it separately), and a 32' T&E stacker, with a 5' tongue... 82'3" according to Barney Fife

- I have my CDL, and up until Friday, I'm proud to say that I've driven for 33 years without a single traffic ticket of any kind... a completely clean record. Barney Fife wasn't particularly interested in that factoid either.

- after abusing me for not instantly pulling over onto the 4' wide shoulder -- I drove down another half mile to a lane merge from a dirt road -- he instantly went to the overlength gig. When he approached me from behind, he drove forward and back a couple 'o times, then pulled me over. I was doing 55mph at the time, and minding my business in light traffic.

- after measuring the rig, he asked me to open the side door. This was after he asked me if the water that was pouring out of the freshwater overflow (the tanks were full, the shoulder was heavily banked) was "grey water"... He then gave me about ten minutes of abuse about racing for a business (for those of you that know me, I realize you're probably laughing hysterically at this point), if we raced for money, why there were contingency stickers on the dragster, etc. He apparently took great interest in the provocative "Mackie Family Racing, Milford, MI" that we have on the back of the trailer... Eventually, he dropped all this nonsense and just focused on the length.

- he had a copy of the "Truck Driver's Handbook" handy, and gave it to me... he then indicated that the applicable legislation for motorhomes wasn't in that book -- and offered to print off the right stuff from his patrol vehicle. In the end, what he handed me was exactly the same stuff that Rock Haas had provided a link to somewhere in this message thread... and we all know that there's nothing in those regs that says anything about the max length for a motorhome/trailer combo

- I considered arguing hard when he gave me the paper -- and then decided not, as he'd already paper-clipped the citation to it... No fine specified on the citation -- I get the pleasure of contacting Judge Judy in Ithaca on Monday to find out how many children we have to sell to pay the fine.

- based on discussions with Rock and others at the track, I fully intend to fight the ticket. I also will make every effort to contact the gentleman that Rock spoke to at the MI DoT and try to get something from him in writing.

We made it home in one piece, although I panicked every time I saw K-car with a pizza bubble on the roof... thought it was another one of our trusted Commercial Vehicle Enforcement boys on duty.

All joking aside -- anyone that has fought this fight (in Michigan, please) -- let me know. As I'd say at least 50% of the rigs at Stanton this weekend were "overlength", per Barney Fife, I would imagine final resolution of this matter is critical. As I've posted previously, a 75' rule isn't going to help a lot of us... so I'd suggest the permit route (or special regs, like NC)... I have some gov't contacts through work, but if anyone has a better way -- thru a high school buddy that's in the legislature, or whatever-- it sounds like it'd be time well spent.

Sorry for the long post.

Scott Mackie

Re: Michigan RV's + Trailer Length Warning
 

state by state site

http://www.towingworld.com/articles/TowingLaws.htm

Re: Michigan RV's + Trailer Length Warning
 

Id say it was time for SHORTER (smaller) rigs to avoid this BS and besides the race track pits are not getting any larger to accomodate these monster rigs. No wonder there is not enough room for everyone as of late. Face the reality of the fact that the DOT length law is what it is no matter how important you think you are.

Re: Michigan RV's + Trailer Length Warning
 

The DOT law is 75 feet on interstates.
It is the State Laws that change that on the other roads.
One standard across the US would make it easier for everyone.
My motorhome and trailer is over length in several States but most seem not to pick on motorhomes. The Totorhomes which look more like a truck is usually the ones who get picked on.
If you look at most 18 wheelers total length when you are at a truck stop nearly all with a sleeper cab are a total length of 70 to 75 ft or more. I have not seen them being hassled for length issues.
One standard across all the States would be a big step forward for those travelling across the country but that happening is a pretty long stretch.
Just My 2 Cents
Rick Cates

Re: Michigan RV's + Trailer Length Warning
 

AS per one standard across the US--"be carefull what you wish for." Because of the Interstate Commerce clause in our constitution Congress and the feds set Interstate rules for Tracter trailers. To have them jump into the regulation of Motorhome/trailer rigs used by racers may have many other consequences i.e.CDL requirements for all, stopping at all weight scales etc.
It appears the issue has only surfaced in a handfull of states. I suggest that we racers contact a friend in our respective state legislatures and seek a resolution using the North Carolina model. State legislatures belong to a national association and have access to codes in all states. We have statistics on our side as fortunately few race rigs are envolved in major accidents. Track operators and motor sports councils (if your state has one) are good allies. Don't forget the circle track guys who (while lacking focus and a since of directiion) use a lot of big race rigs. former state senator- Mike Withers

Re: Michigan RV's + Trailer Length Warning
 

Scott, HATE to ask but how much $$$$ did the state of Mich. make off this citation?
Something needs to change.
Chuck Siegler
328c S/G S/C