What is the correct description of a 60's Jr. stocker.
 

Has anybody come up with that one?

Re: What is the correct description of a 60's Jr. stocker.
 

I had a couple. Just what do you mean?

Re: What is the correct description of a 60's Jr. stocker.
 

Ed,
Is there a proper technical term.
Such as small-block engine, or D/Stock and above.
There are several general terms.
Some older guys say it ended in 1968, when they re-arranged the classes.
Others say, the 10.00 wt/hp break is the starting line of Jr. Stock.
Some others state that the 66' Street Hemi A/S is not a Jr. Stocker.
and no big-blocks.
But others consisder those 62' Dodge/Plymouth 361/305HP
(C/SA & D/SA) and 383/343HP (B/SA & C/SA) cars as Jr. Stockers. (I guess because its a small big-block/low-block)
PC

Re: What is the correct description of a 60's Jr. stocker.
 

Guess you could ask the guys at the York US30 Reunion next weekend. They're doing a tribute to Junior Stock. www.yorknostalgia.com

Re: What is the correct description of a 60's Jr. stocker.
 

For the most part, Junior Stock was everything below the top classes. There was always a "Super Stock", designated as "S/S". In 1961 they created an "Optional Super Stock" class for specialty factory options. In 1962 and 1963 there was a "Super Super Stock", "SS/S". In 1964 and 1965, there was a "AA/S". Starting in 1964 were the Factory Experimental classes, usually an A, B and C class. These classes and the mixes in the eliminators changed from year to year. For eliminators, in 1964 the FX classes and the Super Stock classes ran for "Top Stock Eliminator". In 1965 and 1966, AA/S or A/S also was included in "Top Stock". Everything else ran for "Junior Stock Eliminator". In 1966, the FX classes got dumped into "Street Eliminator" with the Gas classes, Modified Production classes, Sports Car classes and Modified Sports Car classes. In 1967, the FX classes were replaced with 10 Super Stock Classes and the eliminators were confined to the Super Stock classes and Stock classes as we know them now.

Junior Stock generally meant the classes and cars that were common production combinations you would see middle America drive on the street and had been turned into drag race cars, not the specialty high performance purpose built cars that the factory produced for performance impact sales.

Re: What is the correct description of a 60's Jr. stocker.
 

[QUOTE=Dwight Southerland;

Junior Stock generally meant the classes and cars that were common production combinations you would see middle America drive on the street and had been turned into drag race cars, not the specialty high performance purpose built cars that the factory produced for performance impact sales.[/QUOTE]

Kind of like the Blown Mustangs and DP Dodge cars of today.....lol.

Re: What is the correct description of a 60's Jr. stocker.
 

Paul, I don't think they were killed in 1968, that was the first year I attended the Winter Nationals at Pomona with my 2 4bl 9 passenger 1956 Chevy wagon. We were called that well after that. I put the same combo in a 210 2dr sedan for N/S a couple years later after tires got better. I ran the sedan a few years before they forced us into SS.
Seems like it was more like mid 70s?

Re: What is the correct description of a 60's Jr. stocker.
 

As usual Dwight is right on the money.

I would say the Junior Stock "era " officially ended with the Little Guy Nationals at Suffolk Raceway, at the end of 1971.
Right, Terry?

Re: What is the correct description of a 60's Jr. stocker.
 

Good ol Bob Rice once emailed me a scanned copy of the ND national record page showing my N/S et record (Ronca Bros held the MPH for about ever, I never could run that one) the last year before they dropped Stock and forced us to run SS. He may remember the year. I have it in one of the computers in my office. I can check when I get back to work Tuesday. Somebody will come up with it before then.

Re: What is the correct description of a 60's Jr. stocker.
 

1972 was when the Jr. stockers became Super Stockers.

Re: What is the correct description of a 60's Jr. stocker.
 

Yep....When NHRA made all of the neat ole Jr. stockers become Super Stockers it was the end as us old timers know it. Some things were for the better such as a 9 inch slick instead of the 7 inchers and trimming the tires every few runs but when they changed the cam and valve spring rule in 1985 that was the last nail on the coffin.

Re: What is the correct description of a 60's Jr. stocker.
 

This is a link to a Hot Rod magazine article that pretty much covers it:

http://www.hotrod.com/whereitbegan/h...ing/index.html

Re: What is the correct description of a 60's Jr. stocker.
 

So basically, anything not 'Top Stock'
As per 1966. B/Stock and on down.
Hard to imagine a 66' Chevelle SS396/375HP considered as a Junior Stock car.
I just kind of though that the small-block Chevy was the basis for
Junior Stock.
Kind of remember in 1967, the 57' Chevy 283/283HP Fuel Injection
D/Stock car as the base point for some reason.
In 1967, more or less, any car that ran 13.00's and above.
PC

Re: What is the correct description of a 60's Jr. stocker.
 

Weren"t Jr. Stockers really like H/S on down stick and auto? TERRY?

Re: What is the correct description of a 60's Jr. stocker.
 

Usually it was everything below AA/S and down. Some of the tracks around the D.C, area broke it up even more with a "middle stock" and a "little stock" because of the car counts and the influx of NHRA record holders showing up to give the little guys a chance at some $$$. The pay outs were small. Usually around $100 for Jr. stock and $50 to $25 for the other two groups. This was before the bracket racing days.

Re: What is the correct description of a 60's Jr. stocker.
 

X-Tech,
Right, on the Little Eliminator and Middle-Stock stuff.
Same stuff at Dover in the mid-60s'. If you won your class, for an
additional $5.00, you could enter the Eliminator event. Usually, about a dozen cars or so. Winner would get about $40, Runner-Up $20, on a good Sunday.
Always the late-races, around 5:30 PM or so.
Still think the base for Junior Stock in 1965 was the 57' Chevy 150 Sedan with the 283/283HP Fuelie.
Fell into D/S (11.30-11.88 wt/hp).
1965 - D/S
1966 = E/S
1967 = D/S
1968 = G/S
1969 = H/S
PC

Re: What is the correct description of a 60's Jr. stocker.
 

Jr. Stock to my recollection might have been a term used a little but it was really made popular by the magazines that promoted the term I believe.

Stock eliminator was broken into 2 seperate eliminators at my local track. Stock I and Stock II. A to H or something like that was Stock I. There was no AA/S class when I began racing in 1966 or at least I don't recall it being a class by then. A was the top class. Stock II was all the remaining classes. I think this might have led to it being called Top Stock and Jr. Stock at some tracks. They had a lot of cars so splitting the field was common. Once the magazines used the term Jr.Stock.....it caught on.

At some point the term Jr. Stock became very accepted but to me it meant the cars that ran in the "second tier" group. I would never call an A or B stocker a Jr.Stocker.......All you had to do was stand behind one and watch it leave the line on 7" tires.......There was nothing JR about a 427 Biscayne with a 4 speed on 7" tires......or a 396/375 Chevy II with a 4 speed.....


To me the term Jr.Stocker really meant a '55 to '57 Chevy in about 1967-1968.

Re: What is the correct description of a 60's Jr. stocker.
 

Tri State in Ohio ran a top Stock and Jr. Stock with $50 to winner of Jr. and you sold the trophy back for 15$ more. We had a lot of great Steak dinners after those races. Won 7 out of 8 week ends with the converted Dianna 56 Sedan Delivery. (rained the 8th) Old stories are always the best.

Re: What is the correct description of a 60's Jr. stocker.
 

Local tracks here ran Cups or Bucks........You could run cups for class and get just a trophy.....or you could run bucks.....win class and then go into Stock eliminator. Class trophy or cash in bucks was worth 15 or 20 bucks and eliminator win was 75. We almost always won class and won the eliminator a number of times as well. We won a big Stock event one year and it paid something like 175-200 bucks. There were lots of events like that back then that drew in a lot of cars from the surrounding states. I can recall driving to Capitol raceway for a big $$$ stocker event.

Re: What is the correct description of a 60's Jr. stocker.
 

The last Jr. Stock contested was Nov. 1971 . Ontario Calif.

Re: What is the correct description of a 60's Jr. stocker.
 

I think you're right, Poppie Pretty good for an old guy.

That event was later in the month of Nov. Can't find the date at the moment.
The LG Nat's were usually the first week in November.

Re: What is the correct description of a 60's Jr. stocker.
 

Mark,
The Little Guy Nationals at Suffolk Raceway, Virginia was always a good event for the middle of the road guys.
Those Little Stock Eliminator events at local tracks were fun, as long as the Pay-out $ stayed low ($40 for the winner)
Once the dollars started to creap up ($100 for the winner), guys started coming out from under the rocks with those early 60's stockers, that were parked in their barns.
PC

Re: What is the correct description of a 60's Jr. stocker.
 

Around here Stock Elininator was A/S down. Weren't broken down. Here at Tulsa we ran 1st & 3rd Sundays, qualified, and ran off a ladder. Paid about the same as a WCS, less the contingencies. Ran off of national records. You had to be pretty fast to win anything. Pretty good time to be racing. Still had plenty of cars working to get faster, instead of crawling off to someplace easier. Different world then. Now it's et brackets where any clown with any junk is as fast as a sharp guy with a fast car. It's racing dumbed way down. Like Pete Peery said about running off of indexes: "On Sunday, everybody is a record holder". About right.

Re: What is the correct description of a 60's Jr. stocker.
 

I have an old Dover flyer with Little stock eliminator prize pay-outs,
I'll post it. Fun to see the older stuff, and what guys would do to win
a Class trophy, Class winner decal, eliminator Winner decal and $40.
My daughter won't baby-sit, unless she's guaranteed $50 (minimum).
Thats for week-days.
Week-ends its $60.
Funny thing about those Little Stock Eliminators. There was always some ringer in the crowd. In 68', we had a guy with a 66' Chevy II Nova SS
in K/SA with a supposed 283/220HP engine. Won about 5 events in a row. Then we see him at the 68' Super/Stock Magazine Nationals in Long Island in F/SA (claiming a 327/275HP). The next week he's back running K/SA. Knew he wouldn't get protested, because you had to put up $200
to protest for a top-engine tear down. Nobody was willing to put up the $, and wait into Sunday evening for the inspection.. Ran 13.40's, and was on the brakes about 200' from the traps, $40 was worth alot more back then.
PC

Re: What is the correct description of a 60's Jr. stocker.
 

there was some big money races around.
in 1966 we took our k/s 55 wagon to westhampton on long island.was a three days race.
we won every class there was all three days including top eliminater on sunday night.
left with 6 trophy's and $800.00.
was a lot of money back then,never forget it.

Re: What is the correct description of a 60's Jr. stocker.
 

I had an interesting conversation with Jere Stahl this week. I had not talked to him since the NHRA World Finals here in Tulsa, 1967? (1968?) he and Bill Stiles used a friends shop when here. We were talking about the old days (whoda thunk it?) When he set his first record with the '56 Chevy wagon (learned he didn't own it) he lowered it from 14.25 to 13.56! Had his first set of headers. I remember the attention that brought. Jere said they had not thought about getting their spot from that. When I started we had flagmen, and got 25' per class, 250' max. My 'wagon got the same 250' A/S throughout D/S. Was usually enough. :-). 7" tires saved my rear against the higher classed cars.

Re: What is the correct description of a 60's Jr. stocker.
 

Out side of the implemented year limit, what other rule changes were made after Nov. 71? Why do we consider this date as the end of Jr Stock?
Its great to read the comments from the guys that were there. Thanks for posting.
Doug

Re: What is the correct description of a 60's Jr. stocker.
 

NHRA turned them all into Super Stockers. Any cam, valve spring, intake manifold, any tire that would fit the stock fender wells, As time went on more and more changes were allowed such as tubbing the rear fender wells, larger tires, roller cams. ported heads etc.
The stock classes were really STOCK with DOT tires (not the new sticky DOT type tires), OEM exhaust manifolds, a year limit (1960 and newer) No blueprinted cams, etc. and in the beginning the top class (A/S) was 9 lbs per HP instead of 8 lbs per HP.

Re: What is the correct description of a 60's Jr. stocker.
 

I think that traditionally Junior Stock meant the cars from the '50's to include the 55-59 chevys, 58-60 pontiacs, etc.

The end of Junior stock came with the big block cars of the early '60's. 1961 cars under 389ci's were JS, once the over 400ci motors hit the market and the factories got involved the days of JS were over.

Just my opinion but if you brought back JR racing today all you would see would be 55-57 chevies,

JimR

Re: What is the correct description of a 60's Jr. stocker.
 

[QUOTE=X-TECH MAN;195579]Yep....When NHRA made all of the neat ole Jr. stockers become Super Stockers it was the end as us old timers know it. Some things were for the better such as a 9 inch slick instead of the 7 inchers and trimming the tires every few runs.


Yep, I went from breaking almost nothing to breaking more crap than you could haul off with a big truck. After changing to SS, I only won two races and set one record. And bought a lot of parts. The 12 bolt rear & 4speed 220hp Malibu was the car for my class then.

Re: What is the correct description of a 60's Jr. stocker.
 

We sold our H/S '68 Chevy II in 1971 I think.. The new owners had to move into Super Stock after maybe one season as Stock, as we all knew it was gone. In about 1972 or so NHRA had a Pure Stock type category.....it was very restrictive and did not even allow what we had in Stockers in years past. Not many guys from the "old" stocker days wanted to run the new pure stock and opted for Super Stock. I think the new pure stock had treaded tires, stock exhaust manifolds with mufflers, and completely stock engine specs including oem pistons.

The racers that bought our Chevy II. .....Changed the cam and intake and put some bigger tires on it I think...it ran SS/J instead of H/S...Went from running low 12's to mid 11's and set the SS/J record I believe. A flat tappet cam and the Intake was probably a Scorpion or Tarantula......That was the best Edelbrock made at the time. I went to my local track one day to watch the car run. The new owner....Rich Decola ( his partner at the time was Paul Dellvecchio who was a crewman for Bob Newberry for many years).....called me up and asked me to come out and see him race the car.....I was very impressed with the cars ET's that day. I think he ran an 11.45. We nver went faster than 12.20 in H/S.....and held the record at 12.25 for quite a while.......

No way I would have run PureStock.........SuperStock.....Yes!


Then NHRA brought back a more familiar version of Stock a few years later but the rules were more restrictive than what we had in the late '60's.
Modern era Stock is way more like Super Stock of the old days.....and the perfromance of todays Stockers is faster then early SS'ers.....

Re: What is the correct description of a 60's Jr. stocker.
 

[QUOTE=Ed Wright;195929]Ed......I broke a lot of parts in 1972 also. I was running a 1969 350/300 HP Corvette in what was then H/S (10.5 lb break). I had Tony Pizza heads, Gebler Headers (remember those?), Firestone yellow dots, etc. I ran for 2 years and came within inches of beating Larry Lombardo (Before he drove for Da Grump) at 75&80 dragway several times. Back then you had to win class to run the eliminator. I ran 3 times a week at the D.C. area tracks and NEVER broke a thing. As soon as I changed stuff to Super Stock and and just an 8 inch slick I began to break everything except the steering wheel. Half shafts, ring and pinions, stub axels, transmissions, and on and on. The OEM Corvette parts were just as weak as the old chevy rear ends. Never broke the engine though. I feel your "pain".....lol. Thats when I started working for IHRA and then NHRA in 74-75 before going back to IHRA. I found it less expensive and less work.....lol.

Re: What is the correct description of a 60's Jr. stocker.
 

And, back then wining a WCS race paid about the same as a LODRS race now. Was like a whole lot more than now due to inflation. When I moved everything from the wagon to the sedan my parts breakage just about stopped. That sedan was the only race car I ever owned that made money.

Re: What is the correct description of a 60's Jr. stocker.
 

YOU MADE MONEY with a race car !!!!!!!!!! Un-flippin believable......

Re: What is the correct description of a 60's Jr. stocker.
 

We ran Stock Eliminator for $250.00 to win, qualified and off a laser 1st& 3rd Sundays, drove about 90 miles to Ft Smith, AR off weekends usually won both places.
Gas was $ .25 a gallon, entry fee was probably $10.00.
Have not been able to do that since.

Re: What is the correct description of a 60's Jr. stocker.
 

Those were the good days of stocker racing. I knew of a few who made a living back in 1969 racing stock and if you were good AND lucky you made a profit. One guy was laid off from his job and ran at Aquasco in Md. He won almost every weekend that summer with a box top 428 Fairlane that ran H/SA (same class as the Pratt&Burkett 62 Dodge wagon) and managed to keep the payments up on his house and still eat. Maybe it was because he HAD to win that helped him. Yes it was legal as I helped him tear it down once after a protest. Some tracks really looked at your stuff back then. He won the NASCAR Winternationals in a 66 Mustang 271 HP automatic car in Daytona Florida when that race was held there. Maybe some old racers from the D.C. area might remember him....Gene Collins. He has since passed away a few years ago. He was the one who talked me into taking my Corvette off the street and race it...........Gezzzzz, maybe its his fault I love the old stockers so much?

Re: What is the correct description of a 60's Jr. stocker.
 

I probably stated that incorrectly. It did not pay for it's self. Once put together it won enough to more than cover expenses and new parts for a good while.
I had a couple seasons like that in the '80s with a sprint car. Had a real good driver that won a lot, didn't tear up much, and a really good paying local track. $2500.00 to win right here in Tulsa. That track is gone now. The cars got so expensive by '90 the car count was way down. I sold out at the end of the 1990 season while I could still get a good price.

Re: What is the correct description of a 60's Jr. stocker.
 

That is probably one main reason the stock and S/S associations are having lower car counts not to mention the travel expenses.

Re: What is the correct description of a 60's Jr. stocker.
 

For sure! I never thought I would spend over $5000.00 on a lighter rotating assembly. Certainly never thought I would run slower afterwards! :D. This stupid thing is about to make me pull the rest of my hair out. Thanks to Gary Hetler I'm getting closer. I was hoping I would improve .05, not slow 2. Darn embarrassing.

Re: What is the correct description of a 60's Jr. stocker.
 

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http://public.fotki.com/VincePutt/dr...tock/55-chevy/

http://public.fotki.com/VincePutt/dr...tock/56-chevy/

http://public.fotki.com/VincePutt/dr...tock/57-chevy/