Disappearing Stockers in Michigan!!!
 

Only 38 stockers at the Ihra race at Martin. 59 in 2009. 68 in 2008. 82 in 2007. and 83 in 2006. Not a good trend.

Re: Disappearing Stockers in Michigan!!!
 

Lyn,

I can only surmise that it was bad timing for the NHRA guys with Bowling Green two weeks away, Indy three weeks away and Brainerd this weekend. I will throw in a bad economy just for good measure. Maybe this year I can get over and say hello at Indy, that is if you are going.

Re: Disappearing Stockers in Michigan!!!
 

A few reasons and one of the main ones might be the fact that IHRA decided to NOT run STOCK CLASS runoffs at this event in 2010.


Phil

Re: Disappearing Stockers in Michigan!!!
 

Good points but it all comes down to one thing -- money .......or should I say lack of it .

Re: Disappearing Stockers in Michigan!!!
 

I agree with Jack, lack of money (my own and lack of contingency) is the main reasons for me for sure!! We used to support this race every year. Love the track, just too much going on called life, I guess. I will agree that no class racing plus the NHRA race in Brainerd had to have hurt them. They probably would have been better off using the old date (1st weekend August). Also, in those earlier years, you got points to go to Nationals, so that would make them more desirable to run if you were into points.

Does anyone know if it took a really long time to park late Thursday night? I always hated that about Martin. Every National that I ever went to there took hours to get from the gate to the pit spot. I never understood that because it didn't happen at other tracks.

Oh well...........Good job Myron on representing the stockers and footbrakers in the Moser race!!

Jeff Day
#3731

Re: Disappearing Stockers in Michigan!!!
 

I think they parked until 10 or 11 pm, and we got there about 7:00 pm Thursday and was in our pit spot within about 15 minutes. Spent more time in line getting credentials than it took to park. I am sure it was quite a wait when they opened parking though.

Brainerd was up against this race last year as well. They did have stock class last year and they actually ran for class. You lined up and raced for it. This year, only Superstock class here and it was off qualifying, not raced for. And no pictures taken as with the car, driver and IHRA official as before, just hand you a plaque at the time booth. No fun in that! Same in Rockingham. Just off qualifying. Kinda lazy if you ask me.

Re: Disappearing Stockers in Michigan!!!
 

"A few reasons and one of the main ones might be the fact that IHRA decided to NOT run STOCK CLASS runoffs at this event in 2010".
Phil why would this matter at all, its not like the "Class Win" is worth it in any sanction! My .02.

Re: Disappearing Stockers in Michigan!!!
 

Well, it's like this,

I stayed home this weekend to support our Can Am Stock/SS series because the Martin race dates were finalized after our schedule was released.

A 2 hr tow to the track; won 2 rounds and went home with $150. We had 39 cars and the racing is extremely competetive. I too love the Martin track, but the de-emphasis on the ceremonial aspect of class run-offs makes the Nitro Jam event even less attractive. Add on the 9 hour tow, give or take, and the decision was easy.

Re: Disappearing Stockers in Michigan!!!
 

MIA and normally there - Bob & Craig Marshall and their four cars, Jeltmas and their two cars, Brent Darroch and his two cars, Bill, Brad & Shane Zaskowski and their three cars just to name a few.

I really hate the way they are "running" class this year. Why even bother having it? There is no contigency to speak of, you don't even get a chance to race for it - and the kicker, no picture to buy if you want one for your sponsors or family . . . .

NHRA hasn't been much better this year, though it has had to do with weather. Again at Brainerd, they had to cancel class run offs due to the weather and went with the higher qualified car. I am not sure how many times this has happened, but it seems it has happened quite a few times this year and it's unfortunate for all. There is too much scheduled. Snowmobiles need track time too, righ? 10 lbs. of crap in a 5 lb. bag.

Re: Disappearing Stockers in Michigan!!!
 

I think there are a lot of reasons for the disappearing car and spectator counts that occurred at US-131 this past weekend including the economy, the hot/humid weather, the change in direction of IHRA, and of course, the Torco fiasco.

Re: Disappearing Stockers in Michigan!!!
 

If a class win is not worth it why are you racing in stock class? A class win should be whats its about. No shoe polish tuneups allowed.

Re: Disappearing Stockers in Michigan!!!
 

all class winner pics were taken at the tech trailer at the end of round 2 qualifying

Re: Disappearing Stockers in Michigan!!!
 

First off, I like the IHRA and I like all the people you deal with when you come to an IHRA race. The tech people, the gate people and even the parking people at the Nitro Jam at US 131 this past weekend and for the last several years HAVE BEEN GREAT.

To TRO815-Why I class race when it doesn't pay anything? WOW. I have been a class racer since 1967 (the year I graduated from High School) when I built a 56 Chevy wagon for H/SA to race at INDY. THE LAST thing on my mind going to INDY was what it paid. My 265 -2/4 barrel-hydraulic cam-fenderwell header equipped wagon ran the 1966 winner Jerry Robinson ?? in the first round of class and got spanked. It took every penny I made working two park time jobs all through high school and full time all summer to even build the car. I was happy to be there. Didn't Wenzel win that year? Didn't Big Daddy shave his beard that year? The moral of the story is I didn't have a pot to pee in and didn't have a chance to win class. I've stuck with it and simple things like setting or resetting an IHRA class record is why I stick with it, or winning class. I hope IHRA comes back next year and decides to run STOCK class runoffs again. A simple wall plaque with class winner on it is all I need. Sure it would be nice to get 50.00 from Hedman, Autometer, M/T, Moroso, etc. But those days are HISTORY. Maybe people that are younger (I am 61, but feel 30) have different ideas on class racing. It is expensive and we are getting more scarce every year. All I hope is someone at IHRA decides to bring class eliminations back in 2011.

I can think of other reasons for a smaller crowd although Saturday night is was pretty good. The NASCAR race less than two hours away. Several of the car show people that come to one race a year to watch didn't show at this event as a HUGE custom car show event was 45 minutes north.

I know I am rambling on, but if someone plans on making any money class racing, Unless you are a traveling pro forget about it.

Several years ago a guy bought a used dragster that was raced weekly at US 131. He bought is and was going to PAY for it by winning the $1200.00 he was going to win each week when he won SUPER PRO at US 131 Dragway. I watched him lose in the first round for seven straight weeks. He never showed up again and I've never seen the dragster again.

I entered the 2001 Class Nationals with two race cars and I knew both cars were not going to win class, but I went anyway and man am I glad I did. I would have a lot better chance now, what about it Alex?

Phil

Re: Disappearing Stockers in Michigan!!!
 

Amen to that Phil !

Re: Disappearing Stockers in Michigan!!!
 

Phil I am respectful of all of your racing accomplishments ..... But I stand by my statement. I have won class before and its by default .Hooray.
Hairy. I race stock because I can and I know of plenty racers such as myself that DO NOT have the fastest car nor care if they do.and I try to do it by avoiding as much labor and $$ as possible so you will find me at the bottom of the ladder for now. (by choice) good luck .
Mike.

Re: Disappearing Stockers in Michigan!!!
 

You must be proud admitting you don't want to have the fastest car in your class. Whats with that? This is supposed to be a performanced based class isn't it? Thats the first time I've ever heard a drag racer claim they don't want to be the fastest in their class. I've never had the fastest but I've always tried.

Re: Disappearing Stockers in Michigan!!!
 

This is 2010, Stock is no longer a performance eliminator. It is mostly a bracket race. I would not put zero oil in my car to win class. Harry it is about the Eliminator, that is what counts.

Re: Disappearing Stockers in Michigan!!!
 

Let's face it.Class has come down to more or less who has the deepest pockets.Sometimes a bucks down guy will steal a class win,more less than often.

Re: Disappearing Stockers in Michigan!!!
 

My apologies, Jim - Alex never mentioned it because it seemed like it was done as a second thought. We usually put on our sponsors shirts and get all of us in the picture. I assumed there was not one because we were never retrieved to be in it by Alex. There wasn't a picture taken in Rockingham and I figured there must not have been one here. It's a picture we usually buy and send to our sponsors.

The value of a class win has been so diminished by the low qualifier format that the plaque wasn't even taken out of the car when Alex got back. I remember how proudly we displayed our Wally's at Indy, Joliet, Brainerd, etc on top of the winning car the whole afternoon. And we usually ran someone even at IHRA events and the plaque meant something. These races are where the phrase "you don't race on paper" came from. Anything and everything can happen and it's exciting to watch and even more exciting to run.

Regardless, we have class cars to race for class. There was time on Friday to run a few rounds of class elmins. I know it was prescheduled not to run, but why not? Jim, I don't expect you to answer because it's not your call. It's rhetorical. Yet another reason for lower car counts by real class racers - and gives them another reason NOT to race IHRA. We know, we try to get our friends to switch over. But this is another valid reason not to come on board. As much as we enjoy racing with IHRA, it feels like they are placating us by offering class - but it's not really class racing. Because you race for class, only in unusual circumstances should it be decided on low qualifier. So far, both events we have been to with class in 2010, it was prescheduled to be handled this way. Not good and should be changed back to traditional class racing for the future or done away with all together.

off my soapbox now.

Re: Disappearing Stockers in Michigan!!!
 

Harold ease up man. My point is dollars and sense. I remember when class paid almost $1000 bucks Hell thats worth a shot. Today I cant even win a dime by proxy.To say its the first time you ever heard that statement makes me think you are hanging around with millionares. Btw I love to see great racers win by playing the ladder and being at the bottom of it. Or it turns out like Top Stock.Point is,saying racers didnt show up because there wasnt class is UNTRUE! Tony Janes you are dead on.

Re: Disappearing Stockers in Michigan!!!
 

tpoh you must one of the younger racers who started in bracket racing then moved to stock. I didn't.When I started in stock it was real racing. None of this shoe polish crap on the windows so I'm sorry to see the class diluted to the point of no heads up no breakout racing. As you can tell not many fans in S/SS racing like there used to be. Its a shame because the class has such great potential. Just lose the shoe polish and watch the fans stay in their seats when we race.

Re: Disappearing Stockers in Michigan!!!
 

I truly respect the class racers of old. The first one there....wins, within the rules that is. And I hear and see the passion and it's awesome! My question is what do/did these old class racers do to keep that type of racing alive! What do the racers do to promote that type of racing?

Wade Mahaffey

Re: Disappearing Stockers in Michigan!!!
 

Harry, then the guys with the most money and NOT skill wins! Sounds like the pro classes to me. Remember the fact is (LIKE IT OR NOT) its a shoe polish race 90% of the time. Fact is I can except the fact that there is faster and more skilled than me without the ego. "Hey you just beat me to the finish line but you lifted" (WHY) . Its to protect your combo right? Have you ever done this Harry?? So I don't worry about someone kicking my combos *** while they protect their own. I don't make the game up I just try to play it within my only means. Don't blame the player,blame the game.Good luck in all your racing endeavors. As always I'll be at the bottom of the ladder and happy enough to play again and the way things are going, I'm sure they will be more than happy to receive my money again. Mike

Re: Disappearing Stockers in Michigan!!!
 

You can also thank those who cried to lower the indexes three tenths.

They don't want people on a smaller budget to be able to race stock. I'm sure someone will say that's not true. But 'go work on your car' = spending several thousand dollars most of the time.

If you wanted to continue to discourage people from racing in stock and getting their feet wet, lowering the indexes was the best thing you could have done. Congratulations.

Re: Disappearing Stockers in Michigan!!!
 

Actually S/SS was promoted a lot harder by NHRA,track owners and race sponsors then today. We were a big deal and the races drew a lot of attention. Just like Pinks All Out the stands would be packed.

Re: Disappearing Stockers in Michigan!!!
 

Short version.........NOTHING Wade.....Its not fesable today to run anything close to "Top Stock" like the first one at Norwalk in IHRA and the deal Dave Ley ran with all of the bogus HP ratings coming out of the new car manufactures today. it would be a nightmare trying to equalize the combos. The old drivers for the most part went funny car racing for the match racing money. Back in the day Chrysler Corp built ringers such as the Hemi Darts and Cudas (but neat S/Sers) at a time when Ford just gave up and got out other than street production cars (428 CJs) and GM was not allowed to build anything with an engine of over 400 inches in a mediuem sized car (other than the Corvette) . NHRA then came out with the first 10 classes of Super Stock in 1967 but it to was just a bracket race other than class. NHRA and some of the old S/S racers tried again and Pro Stock of 1970 was the outcome and now you see what a "Bastard" money class Pro Stock has become. Pro Stock today should be called "Funny Cars" You cant even see over the carbon fiber hoods of those freaks. I wont even go into the total lack of tech inspection/enforcement of rules today of cylinder heads, Intakes, etc. of stock today. Even todays Super Stock engine is wilder and more advanced than a Pro stock engine of just 25 years ago. Where do you draw the line?
P.S. Even todays so called AA/S and A/S cars are quicker and faster than yesterdays heads up class called Pro Stock. How mamy remember that fact of life !!! Yeah I know, new technology, blowers, better tires, better transmissions, even the air is better and the earths rotation has slowed down to make stockers and S/S faster.....yeah right.

Re: Disappearing Stockers in Michigan!!!
 

First off it is stock eliminator which is made up of stock class cars, if you don't fit in a class then you can't run stock. Second, I like to go to the races that have class because it gives me two opportunities to race for the price of one, in most cases NHRA class wins pays you some $$$. I know this was an IHRA race but look at Indy, everyone talks about it all year long, it is about class racing.

There were fewer cars at Martin because:
1) economy sucks
2) no class racing
3) too hot to race
4) fuel prices
5) IHRA payouts
6) other categories they have added for entertainment (pro sled?)

Just my chump change thoughts ...

Re: Disappearing Stockers in Michigan!!!
 

You pretty much nailed it Chuck. Of course its going to be hot (#3) at Indy also but Indy is Indy.

Re: Disappearing Stockers in Michigan!!!
 

I agree with you Sean. Lowering the indexs three tenths was the best thing they could of done to lower car count. We have seen a number of young racers and other newbies that were unable to run the new indexs. How long do you thing they will stay in stock? I don't have a personal Axe to grind....all our cars are easier to run without as much worry of going too fast.and tripping possible adjustment. I JUST WORRY ABOUT THERE NOT BEING ANYMORE STOCK TO RACE. I sure would have a bunch of expensive temperamental bracket stuff. Just my .02 worth

Re: Disappearing Stockers in Michigan!!!
 

One thing you guys missed regarding the IHRA is the Evan Knoll/Torco fiasco. Both the IHRA and NHRA were benefitting from his sponsorship dollars and the IHRA, in particular, really got hit hard when Torco collapsed. The sad thing is, the joker behind it all that raped Uncle Sam for all that dough, still remains a free, walking man!

Re: Disappearing Stockers in Michigan!!!
 

>> 2) no class racing

Class racing is a nice bonus, but I can't see that as the deciding factor for going/not going. There's only a couple of races with Class all year, and it's always been like that.

>> 3) too hot to race

Actually, it was pretty nice out, particularly on Saturday.

>> 4) fuel prices

Fuel prices are significantly lower than they were a year or two ago. If they're still too high, might I recommend a pickup and open trailer... :rolleyes: I drove 1,580 miles round trip to be there. I'm pretty sure that fuel for somebody that lives in a 1-state radius from Martin isn't that bad.

>> 5) IHRA payouts

6 rounds for $5K... sure, it's not what it once was, but that still looks like a pretty good deal in the big scheme of things. Plus, we only had to be there for two days, not four.

>> 6) other categories they have added for entertainment (pro sled?)

They have absolutely zero effect on the sportsman racer. We own the track from 9am-5pm, running contiguously with no interruption from "other categories". If you haven't been to one of these races yet, you don't know what you're missing, in terms of sportsman racing.

$.02,

Re: Disappearing Stockers in Michigan!!!
 

#1 Reason so few cars were at Michigan. People found out Michael Beard was going to be there so there was no sense going to run for second place money .